WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.050 align:middle line:84% RICK TAYLOR: One more time, just to see if it's working. 00:00:04.050 --> 00:00:08.340 align:middle line:84% In your opinion, Mr. Tate, are you a good plumber? 00:00:08.340 --> 00:00:09.630 align:middle line:90% Well, I think so, actually. 00:00:09.630 --> 00:00:13.220 align:middle line:90% 00:00:13.220 --> 00:00:14.240 align:middle line:90% JAMES TATE: Yes. 00:00:14.240 --> 00:00:17.607 align:middle line:84% Plumbing is what I'm interested in. 00:00:17.607 --> 00:00:18.440 align:middle line:90% Plumbing the depths. 00:00:18.440 --> 00:00:22.850 align:middle line:90% 00:00:22.850 --> 00:00:33.110 align:middle line:84% Going as deeply into myself, and so that's one use of the word 00:00:33.110 --> 00:00:35.730 align:middle line:90% "plumbing," isn't it? 00:00:35.730 --> 00:00:38.260 align:middle line:90% TAYLOR: Oh, I agree. 00:00:38.260 --> 00:00:41.841 align:middle line:84% TATE: The reports that I made rely more on 00:00:41.841 --> 00:00:45.360 align:middle line:84% that there might be other, possibly more, predators. 00:00:45.360 --> 00:00:47.610 align:middle line:84% But if I'm a predator, I suppose I'm a predator mainly 00:00:47.610 --> 00:00:48.110 align:middle line:90% on myself. 00:00:48.110 --> 00:00:53.160 align:middle line:90% 00:00:53.160 --> 00:00:55.530 align:middle line:84% Myself, not because I think I'm so fascinating, 00:00:55.530 --> 00:00:57.280 align:middle line:84% but just because I'm the handiest person-- 00:00:57.280 --> 00:01:00.740 align:middle line:90% handiest one to study-- 00:01:00.740 --> 00:01:07.665 align:middle line:84% so it's just a coincidence that I'm taking notes on myself. 00:01:07.665 --> 00:01:09.040 align:middle line:84% TAYLOR: That's a very interesting theory. 00:01:09.040 --> 00:01:13.960 align:middle line:90% 00:01:13.960 --> 00:01:19.570 align:middle line:84% This theory of self excavation that you hold, I was wondering, 00:01:19.570 --> 00:01:22.540 align:middle line:84% is this what you attempt to do with your poetry? 00:01:22.540 --> 00:01:30.370 align:middle line:84% Is the I enlarged over throughout the whole universe 00:01:30.370 --> 00:01:32.520 align:middle line:90% or the universal I? 00:01:32.520 --> 00:01:37.060 align:middle line:84% TATE: Well, I think that's one of the objectives, 00:01:37.060 --> 00:01:40.160 align:middle line:84% is to find what you have in common. 00:01:40.160 --> 00:01:42.310 align:middle line:84% I think it's a matter of fact, we-- 00:01:42.310 --> 00:01:47.192 align:middle line:84% meaning human beings-- have an awfully lot in common. 00:01:47.192 --> 00:01:49.150 align:middle line:84% We have a lot more in common than perhaps we're 00:01:49.150 --> 00:01:54.640 align:middle line:84% willing to admit, even to people that are on the surface 00:01:54.640 --> 00:01:59.140 align:middle line:84% different in almost every way, are really 00:01:59.140 --> 00:02:01.590 align:middle line:90% united by a great deal. 00:02:01.590 --> 00:02:03.280 align:middle line:84% And so that's one of the things-- 00:02:03.280 --> 00:02:05.160 align:middle line:84% one of the approaches you take, I suppose. 00:02:05.160 --> 00:02:06.550 align:middle line:84% To find a valid subject matter is 00:02:06.550 --> 00:02:16.270 align:middle line:84% to find what in yourself is characteristic of most 00:02:16.270 --> 00:02:18.050 align:middle line:90% human beings. 00:02:18.050 --> 00:02:20.050 align:middle line:84% In other words, you want to try and avoid 00:02:20.050 --> 00:02:25.420 align:middle line:84% probably the little eccentricities 00:02:25.420 --> 00:02:26.350 align:middle line:90% in your autobiography. 00:02:26.350 --> 00:02:28.840 align:middle line:84% Not that you should be ashamed of your own individuality, 00:02:28.840 --> 00:02:36.050 align:middle line:84% but your individuality is only significant insofar as it 00:02:36.050 --> 00:02:38.210 align:middle line:90% applies to all mankind. 00:02:38.210 --> 00:02:41.660 align:middle line:84% TAYLOR: Am I reading something into your statement? 00:02:41.660 --> 00:02:42.290 align:middle line:90% TATE: Not exactly. 00:02:42.290 --> 00:02:43.490 align:middle line:90% It applies to all mankind. 00:02:43.490 --> 00:02:46.300 align:middle line:84% I wouldn't say that, but it is relevant. 00:02:46.300 --> 00:02:47.040 align:middle line:90% TAYLOR: Relevant? 00:02:47.040 --> 00:02:47.540 align:middle line:90% TATE: Yeah. 00:02:47.540 --> 00:02:51.210 align:middle line:84% I mean, you might be writing about for instance, 00:02:51.210 --> 00:02:54.490 align:middle line:90% a window peeker. 00:02:54.490 --> 00:02:58.390 align:middle line:84% Well, I think James Dickey has a long poem about a window 00:02:58.390 --> 00:02:58.890 align:middle line:90% peeker. 00:02:58.890 --> 00:03:02.530 align:middle line:84% Well, I'm not a window peeker, Dickey is probably not a window 00:03:02.530 --> 00:03:03.030 align:middle line:90% peeker. 00:03:03.030 --> 00:03:04.980 align:middle line:84% You're probably not a window peeker, 00:03:04.980 --> 00:03:07.260 align:middle line:84% but what is it that's going to make 00:03:07.260 --> 00:03:09.990 align:middle line:84% that poem relevant and significant? 00:03:09.990 --> 00:03:12.930 align:middle line:84% He's going to find something in this subject which is 00:03:12.930 --> 00:03:15.397 align:middle line:90% in fact either something that-- 00:03:15.397 --> 00:03:17.730 align:middle line:84% well, it's probably something that's either symbolically 00:03:17.730 --> 00:03:22.410 align:middle line:84% or deeply psychologically a reality, 00:03:22.410 --> 00:03:26.820 align:middle line:84% whether or not it's manifested in action. 00:03:26.820 --> 00:03:34.380 align:middle line:84% It's there in your insides, and so though none of us 00:03:34.380 --> 00:03:40.650 align:middle line:84% are really rapists, we might have a potential or some kind 00:03:40.650 --> 00:03:43.920 align:middle line:84% of sickness that's buried beneath a lot of formality 00:03:43.920 --> 00:03:47.850 align:middle line:84% and a lot of politeness and a lot of convention. 00:03:47.850 --> 00:03:49.950 align:middle line:84% But in fact, we do have it in common. 00:03:49.950 --> 00:03:53.130 align:middle line:84% We are lonely, desperate, and et cetera. 00:03:53.130 --> 00:03:55.900 align:middle line:90% You know. 00:03:55.900 --> 00:04:00.600 align:middle line:84% TAYLOR: That leads me to another interesting question. 00:04:00.600 --> 00:04:02.020 align:middle line:84% I hadn't thought about it before, 00:04:02.020 --> 00:04:08.190 align:middle line:84% but you seem to be advocating a staunch realism in poetry, 00:04:08.190 --> 00:04:09.660 align:middle line:84% as opposed to earlier schools which 00:04:09.660 --> 00:04:14.260 align:middle line:84% might have held more for religious purposes 00:04:14.260 --> 00:04:18.100 align:middle line:84% or something, the idealization of something beautiful. 00:04:18.100 --> 00:04:25.030 align:middle line:84% Do you feel it is poetry's duty to unearth the corruption, 00:04:25.030 --> 00:04:26.740 align:middle line:90% garbage of the universe? 00:04:26.740 --> 00:04:29.170 align:middle line:90% Because it is universal. 00:04:29.170 --> 00:04:30.800 align:middle line:90% Or do you feel-- 00:04:30.800 --> 00:04:31.300 align:middle line:90% TATE: No. 00:04:31.300 --> 00:04:33.940 align:middle line:90% No, I don't. 00:04:33.940 --> 00:04:35.980 align:middle line:84% I don't know how you came up with that, really. 00:04:35.980 --> 00:04:39.310 align:middle line:90% 00:04:39.310 --> 00:04:45.500 align:middle line:84% I mean, I'm plenty interested in quote "beauty," end quote, 00:04:45.500 --> 00:04:48.640 align:middle line:84% just as much as I'm interested in quote 00:04:48.640 --> 00:04:50.230 align:middle line:90% "staunch reality" end quote. 00:04:50.230 --> 00:04:52.870 align:middle line:90% 00:04:52.870 --> 00:04:55.330 align:middle line:84% I don't know if I could say I was, as you say, 00:04:55.330 --> 00:04:57.940 align:middle line:90% a staunch realist. 00:04:57.940 --> 00:05:01.480 align:middle line:84% I'm just never interested in any kind of amenities-- 00:05:01.480 --> 00:05:05.200 align:middle line:84% I mean, any kind of covering up any kind of deceit. 00:05:05.200 --> 00:05:06.410 align:middle line:90% I'm not interested in that. 00:05:06.410 --> 00:05:08.830 align:middle line:84% But I am interested in beauty, and I'm 00:05:08.830 --> 00:05:10.930 align:middle line:84% interested in some other things that 00:05:10.930 --> 00:05:16.700 align:middle line:84% are rather delicate and pleasant, just 00:05:16.700 --> 00:05:19.830 align:middle line:84% as I'm interested in being as honest as possible. 00:05:19.830 --> 00:05:25.310 align:middle line:84% And a lot of times when you're striving for this-- 00:05:25.310 --> 00:05:31.050 align:middle line:84% the deepest honesty-- perhaps what you find 00:05:31.050 --> 00:05:35.928 align:middle line:84% will not be particularly appealing to many readers. 00:05:35.928 --> 00:05:37.470 align:middle line:84% Then if it's not appealing, then it's 00:05:37.470 --> 00:05:39.303 align:middle line:84% probably because you haven't, in fact, found 00:05:39.303 --> 00:05:41.790 align:middle line:90% something that's a truth. 00:05:41.790 --> 00:05:43.830 align:middle line:84% A truth that they don't want to face up to, 00:05:43.830 --> 00:05:45.455 align:middle line:84% because they know it's present in them. 00:05:45.455 --> 00:05:48.450 align:middle line:84% But as far as wanting to shock anybody, or the other extreme, 00:05:48.450 --> 00:05:55.110 align:middle line:84% trying to please, I'm not trying to do either one. 00:05:55.110 --> 00:06:03.153 align:middle line:84% I'm just trying to be a poet, pursue, 00:06:03.153 --> 00:06:04.570 align:middle line:84% pursue what I think is most urgent 00:06:04.570 --> 00:06:07.090 align:middle line:90% and what that is changes. 00:06:07.090 --> 00:06:07.677 align:middle line:90% I can't say. 00:06:07.677 --> 00:06:09.260 align:middle line:84% I can tell you what it might be today, 00:06:09.260 --> 00:06:10.997 align:middle line:84% but what it is two weeks from now, 00:06:10.997 --> 00:06:12.580 align:middle line:84% something else might seem more urgent. 00:06:12.580 --> 00:06:15.340 align:middle line:84% Some day, some weeks, it seems most urgent 00:06:15.340 --> 00:06:18.670 align:middle line:84% to just grab on to any small piece of beauty, 00:06:18.670 --> 00:06:20.330 align:middle line:90% no matter what it is. 00:06:20.330 --> 00:06:23.440 align:middle line:84% And so, you know, dance around that until you fall dead. 00:06:23.440 --> 00:06:24.860 align:middle line:90% That's the most important thing. 00:06:24.860 --> 00:06:28.510 align:middle line:84% And then for months, you almost resent this beauty 00:06:28.510 --> 00:06:31.510 align:middle line:84% because you realize that that's such a minute part 00:06:31.510 --> 00:06:40.560 align:middle line:84% of the universe and there's so much other deceit and hatred 00:06:40.560 --> 00:06:41.400 align:middle line:90% going around. 00:06:41.400 --> 00:06:43.620 align:middle line:90% So it's a changing thing. 00:06:43.620 --> 00:06:46.230 align:middle line:90% It's just whatever's most-- 00:06:46.230 --> 00:06:49.460 align:middle line:84% I like the title of one of Frank O'Hara's books, 00:06:49.460 --> 00:06:53.430 align:middle line:84% I think it's a good title for a book of poetry-- 00:06:53.430 --> 00:06:54.600 align:middle line:90% any book of poetry. 00:06:54.600 --> 00:06:57.600 align:middle line:84% It's called Meditations in an Emergency. 00:06:57.600 --> 00:06:59.430 align:middle line:84% That's how I feel about my poems. 00:06:59.430 --> 00:07:04.630 align:middle line:84% They're meditations and they're also always urgent. 00:07:04.630 --> 00:07:06.723 align:middle line:90% TAYLOR: Do you write in a state of-- 00:07:06.723 --> 00:07:08.890 align:middle line:84% well, yesterday, it was referred to as desperation-- 00:07:08.890 --> 00:07:11.560 align:middle line:84% but do you write in this state of desperation? 00:07:11.560 --> 00:07:14.800 align:middle line:84% Do you find that you write well in it? 00:07:14.800 --> 00:07:15.520 align:middle line:90% TATE: That varies, too. 00:07:15.520 --> 00:07:25.880 align:middle line:90% I think it varies. 00:07:25.880 --> 00:07:28.100 align:middle line:84% A lot of times a lot of first drafts 00:07:28.100 --> 00:07:30.483 align:middle line:84% are written in desperate states, but then that 00:07:30.483 --> 00:07:32.900 align:middle line:84% doesn't mean necessarily that they're going to ever end up 00:07:32.900 --> 00:07:36.260 align:middle line:90% being final poems. 00:07:36.260 --> 00:07:40.370 align:middle line:84% With a lot of poems are begun in this desperate state and then 00:07:40.370 --> 00:07:45.980 align:middle line:90% hopefully, improved upon later. 00:07:45.980 --> 00:07:49.400 align:middle line:84% At first, you got the passion, you've got all this-- 00:07:49.400 --> 00:07:51.530 align:middle line:84% maybe even a little insanity or inspiration, 00:07:51.530 --> 00:07:53.030 align:middle line:84% whatever you want to call it-- let's 00:07:53.030 --> 00:07:56.540 align:middle line:84% say inspiration and passion working for you. 00:07:56.540 --> 00:08:00.440 align:middle line:84% And then later, you have what you picked up 00:08:00.440 --> 00:08:02.180 align:middle line:90% through the years. 00:08:02.180 --> 00:08:03.860 align:middle line:90% A sense of taste. 00:08:03.860 --> 00:08:06.860 align:middle line:84% And by taste, I don't mean necessarily convention. 00:08:06.860 --> 00:08:08.775 align:middle line:84% When I say taste, I'm not trying to talk 00:08:08.775 --> 00:08:09.900 align:middle line:90% about anybody else's taste. 00:08:09.900 --> 00:08:11.120 align:middle line:90% Just my own. 00:08:11.120 --> 00:08:13.220 align:middle line:84% I have my own taste, which I will then 00:08:13.220 --> 00:08:21.190 align:middle line:84% use the discretion in what needs to be 00:08:21.190 --> 00:08:23.770 align:middle line:84% altered in the original version of the poem. 00:08:23.770 --> 00:08:32.049 align:middle line:90% 00:08:32.049 --> 00:08:35.260 align:middle line:84% TAYLOR: Mr. Tate, there's something going around 00:08:35.260 --> 00:08:37.900 align:middle line:84% that we've all heard of and it's sort of called 00:08:37.900 --> 00:08:38.844 align:middle line:90% the poetic vision. 00:08:38.844 --> 00:08:41.500 align:middle line:90% 00:08:41.500 --> 00:08:44.380 align:middle line:84% I was wondering if you could apply it to this statement. 00:08:44.380 --> 00:08:46.990 align:middle line:84% Do you find much difference between an orange and a woman? 00:08:46.990 --> 00:08:49.570 align:middle line:90% TATE: No. 00:08:49.570 --> 00:08:52.960 align:middle line:90% They're both edible. 00:08:52.960 --> 00:08:55.182 align:middle line:90% TAYLOR: Great. 00:08:55.182 --> 00:08:56.890 align:middle line:84% Have you had bad experiences with either? 00:08:56.890 --> 00:09:01.240 align:middle line:90% 00:09:01.240 --> 00:09:03.820 align:middle line:90% TATE: Both. 00:09:03.820 --> 00:09:06.725 align:middle line:84% TAYLOR: Should they be cultivated or should they be allowed to 00:09:06.725 --> 00:09:07.225 align:middle line:90% grow wild? 00:09:07.225 --> 00:09:12.880 align:middle line:90% 00:09:12.880 --> 00:09:14.440 align:middle line:90% TATE: That's obvious. 00:09:14.440 --> 00:09:14.950 align:middle line:90% The latter. 00:09:14.950 --> 00:09:17.740 align:middle line:90% 00:09:17.740 --> 00:09:19.810 align:middle line:90% TAYLOR: Great. 00:09:19.810 --> 00:09:22.570 align:middle line:84% What's the difference between money and women, Mr. Tate? 00:09:22.570 --> 00:09:24.193 align:middle line:90% TATE: You can't eat money. 00:09:24.193 --> 00:09:26.485 align:middle line:84% TAYLOR: Recently, we had a great election in our great country. 00:09:26.485 --> 00:09:28.990 align:middle line:90% 00:09:28.990 --> 00:09:32.100 align:middle line:90% Where are you from? 00:09:32.100 --> 00:09:33.810 align:middle line:90% Right. 00:09:33.810 --> 00:09:36.060 align:middle line:84% In view of this recent political thing, 00:09:36.060 --> 00:09:40.560 align:middle line:84% what animal do you feel best symbolizes your own stand? 00:09:40.560 --> 00:09:43.290 align:middle line:90% TATE: The squirrel. 00:09:43.290 --> 00:09:45.050 align:middle line:90% TAYLOR: Why the squirrel? 00:09:45.050 --> 00:09:48.140 align:middle line:90% Any particular reason? 00:09:48.140 --> 00:09:50.210 align:middle line:90% TATE: Well, yes. 00:09:50.210 --> 00:09:50.710 align:middle line:90% TAYLOR: Personal? 00:09:50.710 --> 00:09:54.890 align:middle line:90% 00:09:54.890 --> 00:09:55.510 align:middle line:90% TATE: Let's see. 00:09:55.510 --> 00:09:58.260 align:middle line:90% 00:09:58.260 --> 00:10:00.740 align:middle line:84% I live in the trees, and I go out and collect nuts. 00:10:00.740 --> 00:10:04.750 align:middle line:90% 00:10:04.750 --> 00:10:06.400 align:middle line:84% No, that's about what I feel like. 00:10:06.400 --> 00:10:10.710 align:middle line:84% I feel about that furtive, running out and looking around, 00:10:10.710 --> 00:10:13.470 align:middle line:84% collecting food, and running back, and peering 00:10:13.470 --> 00:10:14.940 align:middle line:90% from that hole. 00:10:14.940 --> 00:10:15.690 align:middle line:90% I don't know. 00:10:15.690 --> 00:10:16.450 align:middle line:90% It just depends. 00:10:16.450 --> 00:10:19.320 align:middle line:84% I'm not advocating what I do for anyone else. 00:10:19.320 --> 00:10:20.250 align:middle line:90% I'm not a dropout. 00:10:20.250 --> 00:10:22.667 align:middle line:84% I see you have that written there, or something like that. 00:10:22.667 --> 00:10:24.000 align:middle line:90% I don't feel the least drop out. 00:10:24.000 --> 00:10:28.310 align:middle line:84% I keep up fully with, I think, all the things 00:10:28.310 --> 00:10:29.310 align:middle line:90% going on in the country. 00:10:29.310 --> 00:10:31.897 align:middle line:90% I'm not active. 00:10:31.897 --> 00:10:32.730 align:middle line:90% I'm somewhat active. 00:10:32.730 --> 00:10:39.790 align:middle line:90% 00:10:39.790 --> 00:10:43.000 align:middle line:84% A man knows what he's capable of contributing, 00:10:43.000 --> 00:10:47.960 align:middle line:84% and I feel that if I were extremely active 00:10:47.960 --> 00:10:50.380 align:middle line:84% with political movements, I would add very little, 00:10:50.380 --> 00:10:52.240 align:middle line:84% as a matter of fact, because I don't think I 00:10:52.240 --> 00:10:55.990 align:middle line:84% have a great propensity for mass organization. 00:10:55.990 --> 00:10:59.650 align:middle line:90% 00:10:59.650 --> 00:11:02.110 align:middle line:84% So I think what I would add would be certainly 00:11:02.110 --> 00:11:07.030 align:middle line:84% no more than any other person, whereas on the other hand, 00:11:07.030 --> 00:11:19.690 align:middle line:84% perhaps by someone hiding and writing and reading 00:11:19.690 --> 00:11:24.655 align:middle line:84% and thinking and talking quietly with people, I do as much. 00:11:24.655 --> 00:11:27.340 align:middle line:90% 00:11:27.340 --> 00:11:30.055 align:middle line:84% You're taking a stance, no matter what you do. 00:11:30.055 --> 00:11:31.180 align:middle line:90% I think my stance is clear. 00:11:31.180 --> 00:11:36.130 align:middle line:84% I'm certainly not in support of the direction 00:11:36.130 --> 00:11:39.350 align:middle line:90% this country has leaned. 00:11:39.350 --> 00:11:42.710 align:middle line:84% When you are-- and most students are-- 00:11:42.710 --> 00:11:45.470 align:middle line:90% 00:11:45.470 --> 00:11:47.620 align:middle line:90% TAYLOR: Come in. 00:11:47.620 --> 00:11:49.622 align:middle line:84% What are we going to do to liven it up. 00:11:49.622 --> 00:11:53.780 align:middle line:90% 00:11:53.780 --> 00:11:56.210 align:middle line:90% Anything you want? 00:11:56.210 --> 00:11:58.550 align:middle line:84% Well, you're speaking about college students, 00:11:58.550 --> 00:12:01.892 align:middle line:84% and of course I am one, and most of the majority 00:12:01.892 --> 00:12:03.350 align:middle line:84% that will be reading this interview 00:12:03.350 --> 00:12:05.240 align:middle line:90% will be college students. 00:12:05.240 --> 00:12:08.630 align:middle line:84% I was wondering what you had to say about this. 00:12:08.630 --> 00:12:11.180 align:middle line:84% Race problems for many, many of us today. 00:12:11.180 --> 00:12:13.820 align:middle line:90% On campuses and off campuses. 00:12:13.820 --> 00:12:16.640 align:middle line:84% Could you honestly state which race you belong to, 00:12:16.640 --> 00:12:19.510 align:middle line:90% why you belong to? 00:12:19.510 --> 00:12:20.990 align:middle line:84% TATE: Oh, I think that question invites 00:12:20.990 --> 00:12:24.240 align:middle line:90% sort of corny stock answer. 00:12:24.240 --> 00:12:25.140 align:middle line:90% It's obvious. 00:12:25.140 --> 00:12:25.740 align:middle line:90% Probably does. 00:12:25.740 --> 00:12:28.350 align:middle line:90% 00:12:28.350 --> 00:12:31.290 align:middle line:84% I'm not interested in races and I don't feel 00:12:31.290 --> 00:12:34.890 align:middle line:90% like I belong to a race, sir. 00:12:34.890 --> 00:12:37.200 align:middle line:84% Well, that's a more or less the answer. 00:12:37.200 --> 00:12:40.372 align:middle line:84% Yeah, that's a stock answer, but it's true. 00:12:40.372 --> 00:12:41.580 align:middle line:90% I don't think in those terms. 00:12:41.580 --> 00:12:43.890 align:middle line:90% I don't think I ever have. 00:12:43.890 --> 00:12:52.290 align:middle line:84% It doesn't make me an absolved person or anything. 00:12:52.290 --> 00:12:56.490 align:middle line:84% Absolved of whatever guilt that many Black nationals 00:12:56.490 --> 00:12:59.400 align:middle line:84% are trying to instill in us as deeply as they can. 00:12:59.400 --> 00:13:03.870 align:middle line:90% 00:13:03.870 --> 00:13:06.930 align:middle line:84% What else would you like to hear of that question? 00:13:06.930 --> 00:13:08.630 align:middle line:84% Was there anything else you expected? 00:13:08.630 --> 00:13:09.630 align:middle line:90% TAYLOR: Oh, no. 00:13:09.630 --> 00:13:11.050 align:middle line:90% I wasn't expecting anything. 00:13:11.050 --> 00:13:15.780 align:middle line:84% In fact, perhaps I was expecting you to say nothing. 00:13:15.780 --> 00:13:18.200 align:middle line:84% I mean, maybe I was expecting that's a corny question. 00:13:18.200 --> 00:13:19.200 align:middle line:90% Let's not talk about it. 00:13:19.200 --> 00:13:26.478 align:middle line:90% 00:13:26.478 --> 00:13:27.520 align:middle line:90% Hold it, the whole thing? 00:13:27.520 --> 00:13:30.310 align:middle line:90% No, I don't think so. 00:13:30.310 --> 00:13:32.380 align:middle line:84% Mr. Tate, we only have, at the University 00:13:32.380 --> 00:13:37.690 align:middle line:84% of Arizona, the book The Lost Pilot, and I was wondering, 00:13:37.690 --> 00:13:39.753 align:middle line:84% what do you think we should take in? 00:13:39.753 --> 00:13:41.170 align:middle line:84% What sort of attitude do you think 00:13:41.170 --> 00:13:45.730 align:middle line:84% we should have reading the book, as the poet yourself? 00:13:45.730 --> 00:13:47.680 align:middle line:84% Is there anything we should know? 00:13:47.680 --> 00:13:51.080 align:middle line:90% Any supplementary guide? 00:13:51.080 --> 00:13:51.650 align:middle line:90% TATE: Oh, no. 00:13:51.650 --> 00:13:54.230 align:middle line:84% That seems like it would be cheating, doesn't it? 00:13:54.230 --> 00:13:56.090 align:middle line:90% TAYLOR: Yes, it does. 00:13:56.090 --> 00:14:03.002 align:middle line:84% TATE: I mean you've got the poems there, and that's your-- 00:14:03.002 --> 00:14:04.460 align:middle line:84% I don't want to say responsibility, 00:14:04.460 --> 00:14:06.682 align:middle line:84% because you aren't obligated to look 00:14:06.682 --> 00:14:08.390 align:middle line:84% at the book in the first place, but let's 00:14:08.390 --> 00:14:10.520 align:middle line:84% say you do happen to look at it and you 00:14:10.520 --> 00:14:14.280 align:middle line:84% happen to be attracted to it for some reason, 00:14:14.280 --> 00:14:16.980 align:middle line:90% then it's certainly-- 00:14:16.980 --> 00:14:24.940 align:middle line:84% it's up to you to go as far with your understanding 00:14:24.940 --> 00:14:32.020 align:middle line:84% and your technical knowledge and whatever facilities 00:14:32.020 --> 00:14:35.950 align:middle line:84% you have available, and you can therefore 00:14:35.950 --> 00:14:39.580 align:middle line:84% deal with the book on whatever level you choose. 00:14:39.580 --> 00:14:41.230 align:middle line:84% You're not obligated to be a scholar 00:14:41.230 --> 00:14:45.080 align:middle line:84% and you're not obligated to be anything, 00:14:45.080 --> 00:14:52.670 align:middle line:84% but that's the opportunity to deal with it on any one of four 00:14:52.670 --> 00:14:53.998 align:middle line:90% or five or six levels. 00:14:53.998 --> 00:14:55.790 align:middle line:84% I'm not talking about my book, necessarily, 00:14:55.790 --> 00:14:59.600 align:middle line:84% but any book you pick up, any book of poetry. 00:14:59.600 --> 00:15:04.460 align:middle line:84% If you're the kind of sophomore in a sorority house-- 00:15:04.460 --> 00:15:08.420 align:middle line:84% female who likes the picture of the poet 00:15:08.420 --> 00:15:10.340 align:middle line:84% on the back of the book or something, 00:15:10.340 --> 00:15:14.480 align:middle line:84% then maybe you'll just be sort of glossing over it and picking 00:15:14.480 --> 00:15:16.190 align:middle line:90% up flashy little sentences. 00:15:16.190 --> 00:15:18.800 align:middle line:84% And then if you're a more serious reader, 00:15:18.800 --> 00:15:23.150 align:middle line:84% you'll try and understand all the various things. 00:15:23.150 --> 00:15:24.890 align:middle line:84% TAYLOR: And you don't feel the biographical data 00:15:24.890 --> 00:15:32.360 align:middle line:84% is requisite at all for a serious reader of your books? 00:15:32.360 --> 00:15:35.300 align:middle line:90% TATE: Oh, I'd much prefer to say no. 00:15:35.300 --> 00:15:39.300 align:middle line:90% I hope it's not necessary. 00:15:39.300 --> 00:15:41.990 align:middle line:84% I know that when I get interested in poets, probably 00:15:41.990 --> 00:15:47.840 align:middle line:84% it's true more for some reason than just deceased poets. 00:15:47.840 --> 00:15:53.540 align:middle line:84% At some point, you end up desiring some knowledge 00:15:53.540 --> 00:15:59.000 align:middle line:84% of their life, but it's not necessary, 00:15:59.000 --> 00:16:03.110 align:middle line:84% but it can add a new dimension, like with Hart Crane. 00:16:03.110 --> 00:16:09.230 align:middle line:84% It adds a dimension to know certain things in any poet. 00:16:09.230 --> 00:16:12.650 align:middle line:84% But then there are plenty of poets, like-- 00:16:12.650 --> 00:16:14.150 align:middle line:84% I know somebody might argue with me, 00:16:14.150 --> 00:16:18.890 align:middle line:84% but with Stevens, I don't feel that my knowledge 00:16:18.890 --> 00:16:23.660 align:middle line:84% of his personal life in any way influences my attitude 00:16:23.660 --> 00:16:25.760 align:middle line:90% toward his poetry at all. 00:16:25.760 --> 00:16:27.230 align:middle line:90% It's not necessary. 00:16:27.230 --> 00:16:34.070 align:middle line:84% So maybe just for a little extra added entertainment, somebody 00:16:34.070 --> 00:16:36.030 align:middle line:84% maybe not now, but maybe 40 years from now, 00:16:36.030 --> 00:16:45.310 align:middle line:84% if I accumulate enough good work will be interested in delving 00:16:45.310 --> 00:16:49.810 align:middle line:84% into what I did Friday night at the Poetry Center or something. 00:16:49.810 --> 00:16:51.880 align:middle line:90% Who that girl was, or something. 00:16:51.880 --> 00:16:56.500 align:middle line:84% But I don't see what it has anything to do with the poetry. 00:16:56.500 --> 00:16:58.990 align:middle line:84% TAYLOR: Well, it sort of seems to be somehow connected 00:16:58.990 --> 00:17:01.630 align:middle line:84% to inspiration, and I think that some 00:17:01.630 --> 00:17:04.480 align:middle line:84% have a natural human curiosity to find out 00:17:04.480 --> 00:17:08.980 align:middle line:84% what in the man's personal life prompted him to this fantastic 00:17:08.980 --> 00:17:13.839 align:middle line:84% outburst or a display of emotion on the printed page. 00:17:13.839 --> 00:17:15.250 align:middle line:90% As far as emotion-- 00:17:15.250 --> 00:17:17.800 align:middle line:84% or not emotion, but as far as inspiration 00:17:17.800 --> 00:17:21.490 align:middle line:84% or whatever it is that starts you writing a poem, 00:17:21.490 --> 00:17:23.770 align:middle line:84% are you prompted by happenings in your personal life 00:17:23.770 --> 00:17:24.520 align:middle line:90% exclusively? 00:17:24.520 --> 00:17:28.480 align:middle line:84% Or do you sit down and an idea comes? 00:17:28.480 --> 00:17:32.700 align:middle line:84% Or do you use a process of automatic writing? 00:17:32.700 --> 00:17:35.020 align:middle line:90% I.e. interpretation. 00:17:35.020 --> 00:17:36.520 align:middle line:84% Shelton's against automatic writing, 00:17:36.520 --> 00:17:38.312 align:middle line:84% sitting down and writing until you find out 00:17:38.312 --> 00:17:40.840 align:middle line:90% what your right idea is. 00:17:40.840 --> 00:17:43.120 align:middle line:84% Or exactly what prompts you to write poetry? 00:17:43.120 --> 00:17:45.220 align:middle line:84% TATE: Well, it's none of none of that really. 00:17:45.220 --> 00:17:48.530 align:middle line:90% 00:17:48.530 --> 00:17:54.160 align:middle line:84% From what I can gather from your long question, 00:17:54.160 --> 00:17:57.580 align:middle line:84% it sounds as if it's supposed to be one thing prompts. 00:17:57.580 --> 00:17:58.340 align:middle line:90% That's not true. 00:17:58.340 --> 00:18:00.460 align:middle line:90% I think with any writer-- 00:18:00.460 --> 00:18:04.450 align:middle line:84% and certainly not just poet, certainly not-- 00:18:04.450 --> 00:18:07.810 align:middle line:84% it's not a matter of sitting down, as you say, 00:18:07.810 --> 00:18:10.718 align:middle line:84% and saying, now what is the idea that's bugging me, 00:18:10.718 --> 00:18:11.260 align:middle line:90% or something. 00:18:11.260 --> 00:18:12.940 align:middle line:84% I mean, it's something we really do live 00:18:12.940 --> 00:18:15.970 align:middle line:84% with every minute at different levels. 00:18:15.970 --> 00:18:23.240 align:middle line:84% I may be disturbed this week about is there sex after death, 00:18:23.240 --> 00:18:24.140 align:middle line:90% or something-- 00:18:24.140 --> 00:18:27.650 align:middle line:90% 00:18:27.650 --> 00:18:28.910 align:middle line:90% it's the kind of problem-- 00:18:28.910 --> 00:18:32.540 align:middle line:84% it's a seed planted in your unconscious and it grows 00:18:32.540 --> 00:18:40.260 align:middle line:84% and the poem hopefully matures in your unconscious-- 00:18:40.260 --> 00:18:42.180 align:middle line:90% for lack of a better word-- 00:18:42.180 --> 00:18:46.170 align:middle line:84% your unconscious, and works itself toward the surface. 00:18:46.170 --> 00:18:47.880 align:middle line:84% So hopefully by the time you actually 00:18:47.880 --> 00:18:51.300 align:middle line:84% approach a blank sheet of paper, there's 00:18:51.300 --> 00:18:52.770 align:middle line:84% been something in there happening 00:18:52.770 --> 00:18:56.610 align:middle line:84% for several weeks, probably, or maybe a year, 00:18:56.610 --> 00:18:57.880 align:middle line:90% maybe a day or something. 00:18:57.880 --> 00:18:59.640 align:middle line:90% But anyway, it's been maturing. 00:18:59.640 --> 00:19:04.300 align:middle line:84% You aren't just sitting down and searching 00:19:04.300 --> 00:19:07.420 align:middle line:84% for something in a complete vacuum, saying, 00:19:07.420 --> 00:19:09.040 align:middle line:84% today I think I'm interested in God, 00:19:09.040 --> 00:19:10.953 align:middle line:84% and say, what do I think about God? 00:19:10.953 --> 00:19:13.120 align:middle line:84% It's something that happens over an entire lifetime. 00:19:13.120 --> 00:19:18.120 align:middle line:84% These questions obsess you and take different forms. 00:19:18.120 --> 00:19:23.090 align:middle line:84% And so I feel that you say how does a poem begin, that I'm 00:19:23.090 --> 00:19:24.340 align:middle line:90% living with them all the time. 00:19:24.340 --> 00:19:27.160 align:middle line:84% I'm living with a thousand potential poems all the time. 00:19:27.160 --> 00:19:31.540 align:middle line:90% 00:19:31.540 --> 00:19:39.870 align:middle line:84% And then various frequency of surfacing. 00:19:39.870 --> 00:19:43.200 align:middle line:90% Sometimes none may surface. 00:19:43.200 --> 00:19:45.000 align:middle line:84% If none surface for six months, I just 00:19:45.000 --> 00:19:51.660 align:middle line:84% assume that there's still a lot going on inside of me which 00:19:51.660 --> 00:19:54.630 align:middle line:84% will eventually find itself on the page, 00:19:54.630 --> 00:19:58.600 align:middle line:84% and it's maybe just as well that I'm not writing for that six 00:19:58.600 --> 00:20:01.600 align:middle line:84% months, because what finally gets on the page 00:20:01.600 --> 00:20:05.260 align:middle line:84% will be more mature and more in control, 00:20:05.260 --> 00:20:08.920 align:middle line:84% probably, than if I tackled the problem the instant 00:20:08.920 --> 00:20:12.390 align:middle line:90% it occurs to me. 00:20:12.390 --> 00:20:15.792 align:middle line:90% TAYLOR: How does a poem end with you? 00:20:15.792 --> 00:20:18.300 align:middle line:90% We discussed how it began. 00:20:18.300 --> 00:20:19.470 align:middle line:90% TATE: I don't know. 00:20:19.470 --> 00:20:22.650 align:middle line:84% I don't want to really give you any flip answer on that. 00:20:22.650 --> 00:20:25.253 align:middle line:84% Frankly, it's just a sense of rightness, and it occurs. 00:20:25.253 --> 00:20:26.920 align:middle line:84% You don't know when it's going to occur. 00:20:26.920 --> 00:20:29.430 align:middle line:84% You may work on it a day, or may work on it 00:20:29.430 --> 00:20:32.910 align:middle line:84% six months and suddenly that sense of rightness is perfect. 00:20:32.910 --> 00:20:35.580 align:middle line:84% About a third of the time, or half of the time, 00:20:35.580 --> 00:20:39.327 align:middle line:84% you do, in fact, as somebody said, just abandon the poem. 00:20:39.327 --> 00:20:41.160 align:middle line:84% It's not that you finish it, but you sort of 00:20:41.160 --> 00:20:43.350 align:middle line:90% give up and maybe publish it. 00:20:43.350 --> 00:20:46.675 align:middle line:84% Well, that's bad, but everybody does it now and then just 00:20:46.675 --> 00:20:49.097 align:middle line:84% to pretend that they finished something. 00:20:49.097 --> 00:20:51.180 align:middle line:84% But when something's really finished, you know it. 00:20:51.180 --> 00:20:53.700 align:middle line:84% You know it, and it's a very good feeling. 00:20:53.700 --> 00:20:55.677 align:middle line:84% It's exhilarating to know that it's finished. 00:20:55.677 --> 00:20:56.760 align:middle line:90% There's nothing to change. 00:20:56.760 --> 00:21:02.220 align:middle line:84% It just finally found its absolutely right form. 00:21:02.220 --> 00:21:05.370 align:middle line:84% And presumably, this is recognizable to the reader. 00:21:05.370 --> 00:21:10.440 align:middle line:84% He also has the same sense as the creator. 00:21:10.440 --> 00:21:14.640 align:middle line:84% I have no idea what goes on in the minds of readers. 00:21:14.640 --> 00:21:16.080 align:middle line:90% I mean, they vary so much, some. 00:21:16.080 --> 00:21:18.500 align:middle line:90% I mean, I just don't know. 00:21:18.500 --> 00:21:19.000 align:middle line:90%