WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.318 align:middle line:90% [APPLAUSE] 00:00:03.318 --> 00:00:05.690 align:middle line:90% 00:00:05.690 --> 00:00:08.060 align:middle line:90% Thank you, friends. 00:00:08.060 --> 00:00:10.630 align:middle line:90% That's beautiful. 00:00:10.630 --> 00:00:14.605 align:middle line:84% Thank you all the powers that be for this. 00:00:14.605 --> 00:00:15.850 align:middle line:90% It seemed impossible. 00:00:15.850 --> 00:00:22.360 align:middle line:84% And thank you for coming home all the people. 00:00:22.360 --> 00:00:26.710 align:middle line:84% I guess I'll read for about 30 or 40 minutes 00:00:26.710 --> 00:00:32.110 align:middle line:90% and then take some questions. 00:00:32.110 --> 00:00:36.040 align:middle line:84% I actually have a program I'm going to try to stick to. 00:00:36.040 --> 00:00:38.706 align:middle line:90% 00:00:38.706 --> 00:00:40.920 align:middle line:90% If I get in trouble I'll switch. 00:00:40.920 --> 00:01:05.730 align:middle line:90% 00:01:05.730 --> 00:01:08.115 align:middle line:84% This is called the "Echo and shadow." 00:01:08.115 --> 00:01:15.210 align:middle line:90% 00:01:15.210 --> 00:01:17.175 align:middle line:90% Echo and shadow. 00:01:17.175 --> 00:01:20.130 align:middle line:90% 00:01:20.130 --> 00:01:24.840 align:middle line:90% A room and a room. 00:01:24.840 --> 00:01:32.620 align:middle line:84% And between them, she leans in the doorway to sing something. 00:01:32.620 --> 00:01:38.610 align:middle line:84% Lentil right above her face, threshold dark 00:01:38.610 --> 00:01:41.560 align:middle line:90% beneath her feet. 00:01:41.560 --> 00:01:46.210 align:middle line:84% Her hands behind her head, gathering her hair 00:01:46.210 --> 00:01:51.250 align:middle line:90% to tie and tuck at the name. 00:01:51.250 --> 00:01:55.180 align:middle line:90% A world and a world. 00:01:55.180 --> 00:02:03.440 align:middle line:84% Her face, her voice, dying and not dying. 00:02:03.440 --> 00:02:08.090 align:middle line:84% And between them the curtains blowing. 00:02:08.090 --> 00:02:12.440 align:middle line:84% And the shadows they make on her body, a shadow 00:02:12.440 --> 00:02:16.910 align:middle line:90% of birds, a single flock. 00:02:16.910 --> 00:02:20.600 align:middle line:84% A myriad and body of wings and cries 00:02:20.600 --> 00:02:26.330 align:middle line:84% turning and diving in complex unison. 00:02:26.330 --> 00:02:31.490 align:middle line:84% Shadow of bells or the shadow of the sound bells 00:02:31.490 --> 00:02:37.730 align:middle line:84% make in the air mornings, evenings. 00:02:37.730 --> 00:02:42.170 align:middle line:84% Everywhere I wait for her as even now 00:02:42.170 --> 00:02:50.900 align:middle line:84% her voice seems a lasting echo of my heart calling me home. 00:02:50.900 --> 00:02:57.020 align:middle line:84% Its story, an ocean beyond my human beginning. 00:02:57.020 --> 00:03:03.830 align:middle line:84% Each wave tolling the whole note of my outcome and belonging. 00:03:03.830 --> 00:03:16.740 align:middle line:90% 00:03:16.740 --> 00:03:17.240 align:middle line:90% Dwelling. 00:03:17.240 --> 00:03:22.970 align:middle line:90% 00:03:22.970 --> 00:03:31.010 align:middle line:84% And so touching her might make him known to himself. 00:03:31.010 --> 00:03:39.170 align:middle line:84% As though his hand moving over her body might find who he is. 00:03:39.170 --> 00:03:45.380 align:middle line:84% As though he lay inside her a country, 00:03:45.380 --> 00:03:49.520 align:middle line:90% his hands traveling uncovered. 00:03:49.520 --> 00:03:55.490 align:middle line:84% As though such a country arose continually up out of her 00:03:55.490 --> 00:04:01.580 align:middle line:84% to meet his hands setting forth and setting forth. 00:04:01.580 --> 00:04:06.740 align:middle line:84% And the places on her body have no names 00:04:06.740 --> 00:04:12.140 align:middle line:84% and she is what's immense about the night. 00:04:12.140 --> 00:04:17.240 align:middle line:84% And their clothes on the floor are arranged for forgetfulness. 00:04:17.240 --> 00:04:27.220 align:middle line:90% 00:04:27.220 --> 00:04:31.510 align:middle line:84% The more time I spend writing the more dawns on me that 00:04:31.510 --> 00:04:34.630 align:middle line:84% poetry I think distinguishes itself 00:04:34.630 --> 00:04:37.390 align:middle line:84% from other forms of language because it's a double medium. 00:04:37.390 --> 00:04:41.710 align:middle line:90% 00:04:41.710 --> 00:04:44.505 align:middle line:84% One of the mediums is speech or language. 00:04:44.505 --> 00:04:45.880 align:middle line:84% I think the other medium and it's 00:04:45.880 --> 00:04:49.150 align:middle line:90% an important one is silence. 00:04:49.150 --> 00:04:56.770 align:middle line:84% And I think as time goes on that other medium begins 00:04:56.770 --> 00:05:00.580 align:middle line:84% to assert itself more and more so that language becomes a way 00:05:00.580 --> 00:05:05.230 align:middle line:84% to inflect the silence so that we can make it palpable 00:05:05.230 --> 00:05:10.540 align:middle line:84% and an experience or something like greater interiority. 00:05:10.540 --> 00:05:12.880 align:middle line:84% I don't know if that's what's going on in these things 00:05:12.880 --> 00:05:15.040 align:middle line:90% but it's what-- 00:05:15.040 --> 00:05:22.160 align:middle line:90% 00:05:22.160 --> 00:05:23.540 align:middle line:90% This is called "Cloudy Mirror." 00:05:23.540 --> 00:05:30.090 align:middle line:90% 00:05:30.090 --> 00:05:31.050 align:middle line:90% Cloudy mirror. 00:05:31.050 --> 00:05:34.330 align:middle line:90% 00:05:34.330 --> 00:05:40.210 align:middle line:84% For all I know, a boy pressing flowers into a book 00:05:40.210 --> 00:05:45.370 align:middle line:84% every morning growing older alone. 00:05:45.370 --> 00:05:49.030 align:middle line:84% At his parents' dining room table, 00:05:49.030 --> 00:05:55.840 align:middle line:84% eats each evening with living and the dead. 00:05:55.840 --> 00:05:59.380 align:middle line:84% Eats out of the hands of the living 00:05:59.380 --> 00:06:02.860 align:middle line:84% drinks from the eyes and mouths of the dead. 00:06:02.860 --> 00:06:05.520 align:middle line:90% 00:06:05.520 --> 00:06:11.340 align:middle line:84% For who can name the world's behind any face, 00:06:11.340 --> 00:06:15.450 align:middle line:90% take the nights on peering down. 00:06:15.450 --> 00:06:19.740 align:middle line:84% I'll let someone else count the stars. 00:06:19.740 --> 00:06:24.090 align:middle line:84% They post dawn so far behind my eyes 00:06:24.090 --> 00:06:27.180 align:middle line:84% I'd have to sleep for years to say what 00:06:27.180 --> 00:06:30.030 align:middle line:90% birds raise my ceiling there. 00:06:30.030 --> 00:06:32.660 align:middle line:90% 00:06:32.660 --> 00:06:38.360 align:middle line:84% Each of us asked to remember what brought us to this day. 00:06:38.360 --> 00:06:41.540 align:middle line:84% One might recall how she followed 00:06:41.540 --> 00:06:45.380 align:middle line:84% a dog's path of fallen notes only 00:06:45.380 --> 00:06:51.090 align:middle line:84% to arrive at her heart's shut house. 00:06:51.090 --> 00:06:53.730 align:middle line:84% Another might answer God should never 00:06:53.730 --> 00:06:56.610 align:middle line:84% have stood under his mother's window 00:06:56.610 --> 00:07:03.090 align:middle line:84% and whispered unto you is born on with you. 00:07:03.090 --> 00:07:08.930 align:middle line:84% What he meant from you shall be torn 00:07:08.930 --> 00:07:11.840 align:middle line:84% and the child counting petals will 00:07:11.840 --> 00:07:17.630 align:middle line:84% have to speak for himself while my own cloudy mirror 00:07:17.630 --> 00:07:20.960 align:middle line:84% tells my story and never said a word. 00:07:20.960 --> 00:07:38.580 align:middle line:90% 00:07:38.580 --> 00:07:42.335 align:middle line:84% When I was a young boy I would come downstairs every morning 00:07:42.335 --> 00:07:44.460 align:middle line:84% and my father would be sitting on the kitchen table 00:07:44.460 --> 00:07:46.560 align:middle line:84% and he would ask me have you prayed. 00:07:46.560 --> 00:07:49.170 align:middle line:84% And I would lie all the time and say yes. 00:07:49.170 --> 00:07:52.290 align:middle line:90% And I never felt a thing. 00:07:52.290 --> 00:07:54.120 align:middle line:84% I never felt any guilt or anything. 00:07:54.120 --> 00:07:59.250 align:middle line:84% And he's been dead for 21 years and about a year and a half 00:07:59.250 --> 00:08:03.660 align:middle line:84% ago I was sitting in a hotel room and I heard his voice. 00:08:03.660 --> 00:08:05.790 align:middle line:84% He said have you prayed and I was suddenly 00:08:05.790 --> 00:08:06.900 align:middle line:90% overwhelmed with guilt. 00:08:06.900 --> 00:08:09.570 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:08:09.570 --> 00:08:11.810 align:middle line:90% So I told him yes. 00:08:11.810 --> 00:08:14.795 align:middle line:84% And actually after I wrote this the guilt got worse. 00:08:14.795 --> 00:08:20.480 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:08:20.480 --> 00:08:23.250 align:middle line:90% You have to try again. 00:08:23.250 --> 00:08:25.142 align:middle line:84% This is called "Have you Prayed." 00:08:25.142 --> 00:08:29.180 align:middle line:90% 00:08:29.180 --> 00:08:29.930 align:middle line:90% "Have you Prayed." 00:08:29.930 --> 00:08:34.120 align:middle line:90% 00:08:34.120 --> 00:08:42.220 align:middle line:84% When the wind turns and asks in my father's voice 00:08:42.220 --> 00:08:48.320 align:middle line:84% have you prayed I know three things. 00:08:48.320 --> 00:08:54.360 align:middle line:84% One, I'm not finished answering to the dead. 00:08:54.360 --> 00:09:01.290 align:middle line:84% Two, a man is four winds and three fires. 00:09:01.290 --> 00:09:03.810 align:middle line:84% And the four winds are his father's voice 00:09:03.810 --> 00:09:11.550 align:middle line:84% his mother's voice or maybe he's seven winds and 10 fires. 00:09:11.550 --> 00:09:15.820 align:middle line:84% And the fires are seeing, hearing, 00:09:15.820 --> 00:09:20.160 align:middle line:90% touching dreaming, thinking. 00:09:20.160 --> 00:09:24.090 align:middle line:90% Or is it the breath of God? 00:09:24.090 --> 00:09:31.560 align:middle line:84% When the wind turns traveler and asks in my father's voice 00:09:31.560 --> 00:09:33.900 align:middle line:90% have you prayed? 00:09:33.900 --> 00:09:37.800 align:middle line:90% I remember three things. 00:09:37.800 --> 00:09:46.950 align:middle line:84% One, a father's love is milk and sugar, two thirds worry, 00:09:46.950 --> 00:09:49.470 align:middle line:90% two thirds grief. 00:09:49.470 --> 00:09:53.400 align:middle line:84% And once left over is trimmed and leavened 00:09:53.400 --> 00:09:59.810 align:middle line:84% to make the bread the dead and the living share. 00:09:59.810 --> 00:10:05.300 align:middle line:84% And patience, that's to endure the terrible leavening 00:10:05.300 --> 00:10:07.940 align:middle line:90% and kneading. 00:10:07.940 --> 00:10:12.095 align:middle line:84% And wisdom, that's my father's face in sleep. 00:10:12.095 --> 00:10:14.790 align:middle line:90% 00:10:14.790 --> 00:10:22.260 align:middle line:84% When the wind asks have you prayed, I know it's only me 00:10:22.260 --> 00:10:29.970 align:middle line:84% reminding myself a flower is one station between Earth's wish 00:10:29.970 --> 00:10:32.760 align:middle line:90% and Earth's rapture. 00:10:32.760 --> 00:10:37.230 align:middle line:84% And blood was fire, salt, and breath 00:10:37.230 --> 00:10:45.330 align:middle line:84% long before it quickened any wand or branch, any limb that 00:10:45.330 --> 00:10:48.180 align:middle line:90% woke speaking. 00:10:48.180 --> 00:10:53.850 align:middle line:84% It's just me in the gardens of the wind or my father 00:10:53.850 --> 00:10:59.880 align:middle line:84% through me asking have you found your refuge yet. 00:10:59.880 --> 00:11:04.570 align:middle line:90% Asking are you happy? 00:11:04.570 --> 00:11:10.410 align:middle line:84% Funny, a troubled father, a happy son, 00:11:10.410 --> 00:11:15.510 align:middle line:84% the wind with a voice and me without one. 00:11:15.510 --> 00:11:35.650 align:middle line:90% 00:11:35.650 --> 00:11:36.400 align:middle line:90% Nativity. 00:11:36.400 --> 00:11:42.910 align:middle line:90% 00:11:42.910 --> 00:11:51.270 align:middle line:84% In the dark a child might ask, what is the world just 00:11:51.270 --> 00:11:58.510 align:middle line:84% to hear his sister promise an unfinished wing of heaven. 00:11:58.510 --> 00:12:05.020 align:middle line:84% Just to hear his brother say a house inside a house. 00:12:05.020 --> 00:12:07.000 align:middle line:84% But most of all to hear his mother 00:12:07.000 --> 00:12:13.850 align:middle line:84% answer one more song then you go to sleep. 00:12:13.850 --> 00:12:18.490 align:middle line:84% How could anyone in that bed guess the question 00:12:18.490 --> 00:12:22.030 align:middle line:84% finds its beginning in the answer 00:12:22.030 --> 00:12:26.560 align:middle line:84% long growing inside the one who asked. 00:12:26.560 --> 00:12:30.040 align:middle line:84% That restless boy, the night's darling. 00:12:30.040 --> 00:12:32.770 align:middle line:90% 00:12:32.770 --> 00:12:39.820 align:middle line:84% Later, a man lying awake he might ask it again just 00:12:39.820 --> 00:12:45.580 align:middle line:84% to hear the silence charge him, this night arching 00:12:45.580 --> 00:12:48.910 align:middle line:90% over your sleepless wondering. 00:12:48.910 --> 00:12:56.950 align:middle line:84% This night the near ground every reaching out to overreaches. 00:12:56.950 --> 00:13:04.060 align:middle line:84% Just to remind himself out of what little Earth and duration. 00:13:04.060 --> 00:13:08.080 align:middle line:84% Out of want immense goodbye each must 00:13:08.080 --> 00:13:13.510 align:middle line:84% make a safe place of his heart before so strange 00:13:13.510 --> 00:13:18.100 align:middle line:84% and wild against as God approaches. 00:13:18.100 --> 00:13:36.480 align:middle line:90% 00:13:36.480 --> 00:13:39.210 align:middle line:84% In this poem, the poem ends with the names 00:13:39.210 --> 00:13:42.810 align:middle line:90% of flowers that don't exist. 00:13:42.810 --> 00:13:46.280 align:middle line:84% I just got stuck in the poem so I just started making up names. 00:13:46.280 --> 00:13:48.750 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:13:48.750 --> 00:13:51.060 align:middle line:84% People have actually told me I went out and looked 00:13:51.060 --> 00:13:52.554 align:middle line:90% for this flowers in the poem 00:13:52.554 --> 00:13:54.707 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:13:54.707 --> 00:13:56.915 align:middle line:84% And I'm sorry I'll need to make that, what we'll just 00:13:56.915 --> 00:13:57.665 align:middle line:90% call a disclaimer. 00:13:57.665 --> 00:13:58.960 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:13:58.960 --> 00:14:02.230 align:middle line:84% That's part of the way I solve problems. 00:14:02.230 --> 00:14:05.668 align:middle line:84% I go into complete unreality imagination. 00:14:05.668 --> 00:14:10.360 align:middle line:90% 00:14:10.360 --> 00:14:13.744 align:middle line:90% Difficult my life has been. 00:14:13.744 --> 00:14:15.700 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:14:15.700 --> 00:14:18.550 align:middle line:90% So here we go. 00:14:18.550 --> 00:14:21.850 align:middle line:84% Actually a couple of them are real flowers I've been told. 00:14:21.850 --> 00:14:24.130 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:14:24.130 --> 00:14:25.250 align:middle line:90% Most of them aren't. 00:14:25.250 --> 00:14:29.230 align:middle line:84% So this is called "The Shortcut Home". 00:14:29.230 --> 00:14:32.610 align:middle line:90% 00:14:32.610 --> 00:14:33.480 align:middle line:90% "The Shortcut Home". 00:14:33.480 --> 00:14:37.140 align:middle line:90% 00:14:37.140 --> 00:14:44.160 align:middle line:84% In my sister's story my mother swears we were born 00:14:44.160 --> 00:14:49.980 align:middle line:84% but God can't find us in any of his coat pockets. 00:14:49.980 --> 00:14:54.720 align:middle line:84% Not in the empty and not in the filled. 00:14:54.720 --> 00:15:01.380 align:middle line:84% We are in none of his hands, the fine or the terrible. 00:15:01.380 --> 00:15:07.590 align:middle line:84% None of his shoes, the giant or the minute. 00:15:07.590 --> 00:15:11.780 align:middle line:84% And neither are we hiding inside his apples, 00:15:11.780 --> 00:15:16.350 align:middle line:84% neither in the perfect nor the ruined. 00:15:16.350 --> 00:15:21.936 align:middle line:84% Not in the first mouthful and not in the last. 00:15:21.936 --> 00:15:27.170 align:middle line:84% In my brother's story our death seems to us 00:15:27.170 --> 00:15:30.950 align:middle line:84% from the highest branch of the oldest tree 00:15:30.950 --> 00:15:34.640 align:middle line:90% the birds remember in song. 00:15:34.640 --> 00:15:38.180 align:middle line:84% And we wander our father's house in search 00:15:38.180 --> 00:15:42.830 align:middle line:90% of the origin of the hours. 00:15:42.830 --> 00:15:47.630 align:middle line:84% In my story, but I don't have a story. 00:15:47.630 --> 00:15:53.480 align:middle line:84% All I have are a few names of the flowers. 00:15:53.480 --> 00:16:02.900 align:middle line:84% Morning glory, 7 o'clock, mother of wings, dreaming undone, 00:16:02.900 --> 00:16:10.130 align:middle line:84% dreaming shouldered, story carrying backward up a stairs. 00:16:10.130 --> 00:16:15.860 align:middle line:84% All I have is a sullen path I follow back to sleep. 00:16:15.860 --> 00:16:23.030 align:middle line:84% Painted face, clouded pain, song in a jar. 00:16:23.030 --> 00:16:27.770 align:middle line:84% Burning threshhold, bloody scrimmage, 00:16:27.770 --> 00:16:30.455 align:middle line:90% voice strewn on the rocks. 00:16:30.455 --> 00:16:48.750 align:middle line:90% 00:16:48.750 --> 00:16:49.590 align:middle line:90% First world. 00:16:49.590 --> 00:16:54.580 align:middle line:90% 00:16:54.580 --> 00:17:02.770 align:middle line:84% Sister, we died in childhood remember? 00:17:02.770 --> 00:17:08.530 align:middle line:84% Into birds we died and they're flying. 00:17:08.530 --> 00:17:12.369 align:middle line:84% Toward all of sky we perished so completely 00:17:12.369 --> 00:17:17.800 align:middle line:84% our mother cried where are my little ones. 00:17:17.800 --> 00:17:24.099 align:middle line:84% Into her voice we died that wild singing dispersed 00:17:24.099 --> 00:17:27.849 align:middle line:90% in days greater sentence. 00:17:27.849 --> 00:17:32.050 align:middle line:84% And the days, we disappeared into them 00:17:32.050 --> 00:17:39.370 align:middle line:84% and what they confided coming and going but where. 00:17:39.370 --> 00:17:46.120 align:middle line:84% Of noon we died and of midnight our longings the bridges we 00:17:46.120 --> 00:17:49.930 align:middle line:84% flung toward the future, longings we 00:17:49.930 --> 00:17:58.010 align:middle line:84% wove in secret out of worry, wonder, and expectancy. 00:17:58.010 --> 00:18:02.680 align:middle line:84% And we died of the future of colony and mission 00:18:02.680 --> 00:18:10.690 align:middle line:84% only we could keep leaping into faces, trees, toys, houses, 00:18:10.690 --> 00:18:19.100 align:middle line:84% seasons, sinking into roots, dreams, and books. 00:18:19.100 --> 00:18:22.460 align:middle line:84% Nights beyond the house we looked up 00:18:22.460 --> 00:18:28.490 align:middle line:84% and fell into the known configurations of stars. 00:18:28.490 --> 00:18:34.400 align:middle line:84% Nights housed and in bed we closed our eyes 00:18:34.400 --> 00:18:38.900 align:middle line:84% and dived into the unknown constellations. 00:18:38.900 --> 00:18:43.610 align:middle line:84% The empty basket, the Jewel stair, 00:18:43.610 --> 00:18:47.300 align:middle line:90% the table set for a guest. 00:18:47.300 --> 00:18:53.360 align:middle line:84% Into our names we died then passed their precincts 00:18:53.360 --> 00:18:55.550 align:middle line:90% and would not be persuaded. 00:18:55.550 --> 00:19:01.100 align:middle line:84% Every world they kept in other bigger hands. 00:19:01.100 --> 00:19:04.790 align:middle line:84% we who were haunted by suspicions that where we 00:19:04.790 --> 00:19:09.380 align:middle line:90% stood there stood all worlds. 00:19:09.380 --> 00:19:16.880 align:middle line:84% We died and I've been sowing grass and flowers ever since. 00:19:16.880 --> 00:19:20.930 align:middle line:90% We died and we go on dying. 00:19:20.930 --> 00:19:25.310 align:middle line:84% So where would I look for us except in everything I see. 00:19:25.310 --> 00:19:35.663 align:middle line:90% 00:19:35.663 --> 00:19:40.030 align:middle line:84% This next poem comes out of an experience I had with my son. 00:19:40.030 --> 00:19:42.010 align:middle line:90% He was very young. 00:19:42.010 --> 00:19:45.520 align:middle line:84% He was taking piano lessons from my sister 00:19:45.520 --> 00:19:48.430 align:middle line:84% and she was teaching him the scales you know. 00:19:48.430 --> 00:19:52.540 align:middle line:84% Every good boy does fine you know this. 00:19:52.540 --> 00:19:55.710 align:middle line:90% E, G, D, whatever. 00:19:55.710 --> 00:20:00.550 align:middle line:84% And he asked me one day when he was about nine or 10. 00:20:00.550 --> 00:20:02.380 align:middle line:90% He said baba is that true? 00:20:02.380 --> 00:20:03.990 align:middle line:90% Every good boy does fine. 00:20:03.990 --> 00:20:04.490 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:20:04.490 --> 00:20:06.880 align:middle line:84% And I thought about that and I said no, I 00:20:06.880 --> 00:20:10.300 align:middle line:90% think every wise child is sad. 00:20:10.300 --> 00:20:14.110 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:20:14.110 --> 00:20:16.990 align:middle line:84% My sister was very upset with me. 00:20:16.990 --> 00:20:22.450 align:middle line:84% When he told her that at the next lesson they had. 00:20:22.450 --> 00:20:24.470 align:middle line:90% And so I wrote this poem. 00:20:24.470 --> 00:20:27.085 align:middle line:84% So it's an ongoing argument I have with my sister. 00:20:27.085 --> 00:20:31.600 align:middle line:90% 00:20:31.600 --> 00:20:34.820 align:middle line:90% It might be true. 00:20:34.820 --> 00:20:35.730 align:middle line:90% I don't know. 00:20:35.730 --> 00:20:38.770 align:middle line:84% Gandhi was known of calling it as it is. 00:20:38.770 --> 00:20:40.675 align:middle line:90% Einstein, Dickinson. 00:20:40.675 --> 00:20:42.050 align:middle line:84% I don't know so it might be true. 00:20:42.050 --> 00:20:43.675 align:middle line:84% I don't know what that's about because. 00:20:43.675 --> 00:20:48.790 align:middle line:84% Because if wisdom makes you sad why would you go after wisdom? 00:20:48.790 --> 00:20:50.830 align:middle line:84% Maybe that's a lower form of wisdom. 00:20:50.830 --> 00:20:53.020 align:middle line:84% Maybe there's an intermediate form of wisdom 00:20:53.020 --> 00:20:56.478 align:middle line:84% where you experience the sadness of disillusionment 00:20:56.478 --> 00:20:59.020 align:middle line:84% and then later on you experience the freedom disillusionment, 00:20:59.020 --> 00:21:02.140 align:middle line:84% free of bigotry in your illusions. 00:21:02.140 --> 00:21:03.100 align:middle line:90% I don't know. 00:21:03.100 --> 00:21:04.850 align:middle line:84% I know nothing about wisdom but this is-- 00:21:04.850 --> 00:21:06.670 align:middle line:84% I guess that's why I wrote this poem trying 00:21:06.670 --> 00:21:08.963 align:middle line:90% to figure out what it means. 00:21:08.963 --> 00:21:10.255 align:middle line:90% It's called "Tearing the Page." 00:21:10.255 --> 00:21:14.400 align:middle line:90% 00:21:14.400 --> 00:21:16.470 align:middle line:90% "Tearing the Page." 00:21:16.470 --> 00:21:18.840 align:middle line:84% And I mention in here the 20th Century. 00:21:18.840 --> 00:21:22.560 align:middle line:84% That's an actual train that used to run East and West. 00:21:22.560 --> 00:21:24.920 align:middle line:84% And I would go downtown Chicago on my way 00:21:24.920 --> 00:21:26.670 align:middle line:84% to work and have my coffee in the morning. 00:21:26.670 --> 00:21:29.583 align:middle line:84% I would hear the announcements, the 20th Century 00:21:29.583 --> 00:21:30.375 align:middle line:90% is about to arrive. 00:21:30.375 --> 00:21:39.450 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:21:39.450 --> 00:21:41.165 align:middle line:90% It's called "Tearing the Page." 00:21:41.165 --> 00:21:46.090 align:middle line:90% 00:21:46.090 --> 00:21:51.160 align:middle line:90% Every wise child is sad. 00:21:51.160 --> 00:21:57.670 align:middle line:84% Every prince is a member of the grass. 00:21:57.670 --> 00:22:05.230 align:middle line:84% Each bud opening opens on the unforeseen. 00:22:05.230 --> 00:22:12.580 align:middle line:84% Every wind strewn flower is God tearing God. 00:22:12.580 --> 00:22:19.330 align:middle line:84% And the stars are leaves blown across my grandmother's lap. 00:22:19.330 --> 00:22:23.200 align:middle line:90% For the dew multiply. 00:22:23.200 --> 00:22:29.380 align:middle line:84% And of times many hands who can tell the bloody 00:22:29.380 --> 00:22:34.600 align:middle line:84% from the perfumed, the one that stitches from the one 00:22:34.600 --> 00:22:37.540 align:middle line:90% that rips. 00:22:37.540 --> 00:22:41.660 align:middle line:84% Every laughing child is forgetful. 00:22:41.660 --> 00:22:47.750 align:middle line:84% Every solitary child rules the universe. 00:22:47.750 --> 00:22:50.720 align:middle line:84% And the child who can't sleep learns 00:22:50.720 --> 00:22:55.190 align:middle line:90% to count, a patient child. 00:22:55.190 --> 00:22:57.470 align:middle line:84% And the child who comes negotiates 00:22:57.470 --> 00:23:05.960 align:middle line:84% between limit and longing, infinity and subtraction. 00:23:05.960 --> 00:23:09.230 align:middle line:84% Every child who listens all night to the wind 00:23:09.230 --> 00:23:11.630 align:middle line:90% eventually knows. 00:23:11.630 --> 00:23:18.140 align:middle line:84% His breathing turns a wheel pouring time and dream 00:23:18.140 --> 00:23:21.110 align:middle line:90% to leave no trace. 00:23:21.110 --> 00:23:23.450 align:middle line:84% Though he can't tell what a minute 00:23:23.450 --> 00:23:31.100 align:middle line:84% weighs or is an hour too little or too long. 00:23:31.100 --> 00:23:35.990 align:middle line:84% As old as night itself, he's not old enough in the morning 00:23:35.990 --> 00:23:40.010 align:middle line:90% to heat his milk on the stove. 00:23:40.010 --> 00:23:45.920 align:middle line:84% He knows about the goodbyes though, some of them anyway. 00:23:45.920 --> 00:23:51.930 align:middle line:84% The goodbye at the door each day, a kiss for kiss. 00:23:51.930 --> 00:23:54.830 align:middle line:90% The goodbye at bedtime. 00:23:54.830 --> 00:24:01.520 align:middle line:84% Stories and songs until it's safe to close his eyes. 00:24:01.520 --> 00:24:04.490 align:middle line:84% And maybe he's even heard about the waiting room 00:24:04.490 --> 00:24:08.420 align:middle line:84% at Union Station where dust and echoes 00:24:08.420 --> 00:24:14.390 align:middle line:84% climb to the great skylights accompanied by farewells 00:24:14.390 --> 00:24:20.120 align:middle line:84% of the now going to join the distant farewells of the long 00:24:20.120 --> 00:24:25.160 align:middle line:84% gone while the voice announces the departure 00:24:25.160 --> 00:24:30.870 align:middle line:84% of the 20th Century for all points West. 00:24:30.870 --> 00:24:37.230 align:middle line:84% Yes, every wise child is heartbroken. 00:24:37.230 --> 00:24:41.520 align:middle line:84% A sorrowing pimp, he knows the play 00:24:41.520 --> 00:24:44.760 align:middle line:84% he's called away from each evening 00:24:44.760 --> 00:24:50.610 align:middle line:84% is the beginning and end of order in a human household. 00:24:50.610 --> 00:24:55.830 align:middle line:84% He's sure his humming to himself and his rising and falling ball 00:24:55.830 --> 00:25:03.120 align:middle line:84% are appointed by ancient laws his own heart tides obey. 00:25:03.120 --> 00:25:07.170 align:middle line:84% But he can't tell anybody what he knows. 00:25:07.170 --> 00:25:12.330 align:middle line:84% Old enough to knock his shoelaces but not old enough to 00:25:12.330 --> 00:25:14.850 align:middle line:90% unlock them. 00:25:14.850 --> 00:25:21.240 align:middle line:84% Old enough to pray, he doesn't always know who to pray to. 00:25:21.240 --> 00:25:24.630 align:middle line:84% Old enough to know to close the window when it's storms. 00:25:24.630 --> 00:25:29.070 align:middle line:84% Old enough to know the rain given the chance 00:25:29.070 --> 00:25:35.430 align:middle line:84% would fall on him and darken him, and darken him. 00:25:35.430 --> 00:25:38.580 align:middle line:84% The way he himself colors the figures 00:25:38.580 --> 00:25:43.815 align:middle line:84% he draws pressing so hard he tears the page. 00:25:43.815 --> 00:25:50.520 align:middle line:90% 00:25:50.520 --> 00:25:51.735 align:middle line:90% I'll read two more poems. 00:25:51.735 --> 00:25:54.510 align:middle line:90% 00:25:54.510 --> 00:25:56.610 align:middle line:84% If you have questions, you can ask them. 00:25:56.610 --> 00:26:00.950 align:middle line:90% 00:26:00.950 --> 00:26:02.860 align:middle line:84% This is another poem about the train station. 00:26:02.860 --> 00:26:07.430 align:middle line:90% 00:26:07.430 --> 00:26:08.240 align:middle line:90% I just wrote this. 00:26:08.240 --> 00:26:13.790 align:middle line:84% I don't even know if it's finished or if it's a poem. 00:26:13.790 --> 00:26:15.200 align:middle line:90% I'll take a chance. 00:26:15.200 --> 00:26:16.400 align:middle line:90% This is called "Station". 00:26:16.400 --> 00:26:21.190 align:middle line:90% 00:26:21.190 --> 00:26:21.940 align:middle line:90% "Station". 00:26:21.940 --> 00:26:25.260 align:middle line:90% 00:26:25.260 --> 00:26:28.350 align:middle line:90% Your attention please. 00:26:28.350 --> 00:26:35.880 align:middle line:84% Train number nine, the Northern Zephyr destined for Rivers end 00:26:35.880 --> 00:26:38.460 align:middle line:90% is now boarding. 00:26:38.460 --> 00:26:42.060 align:middle line:84% All ticketed passengers please proceed to the gate 00:26:42.060 --> 00:26:43.470 align:middle line:90% marked Evening. 00:26:43.470 --> 00:26:46.070 align:middle line:90% 00:26:46.070 --> 00:26:48.680 align:middle line:90% Your attention please. 00:26:48.680 --> 00:26:54.410 align:middle line:84% Train number seven leaves blown by bound 00:26:54.410 --> 00:26:59.510 align:middle line:84% for the color of thinking and renovated time 00:26:59.510 --> 00:27:02.150 align:middle line:90% is now departing. 00:27:02.150 --> 00:27:08.470 align:middle line:84% All ticketed passengers may board behind my eyes. 00:27:08.470 --> 00:27:10.420 align:middle line:90% Your attention please. 00:27:10.420 --> 00:27:16.030 align:middle line:84% Train number four the 20th Century has joined the wind 00:27:16.030 --> 00:27:21.700 align:middle line:84% undisguised to become the written word. 00:27:21.700 --> 00:27:25.810 align:middle line:84% Those who never heard their names may inquire 00:27:25.810 --> 00:27:30.160 align:middle line:84% at the uneven margin of the story or else 00:27:30.160 --> 00:27:37.630 align:middle line:84% consult the Ivy lying awake under our open window. 00:27:37.630 --> 00:27:39.730 align:middle line:90% Your attention please. 00:27:39.730 --> 00:27:46.090 align:middle line:84% The music arriving out of hidden ground and endlessly beginning 00:27:46.090 --> 00:27:50.320 align:middle line:84% is now the flower, now the flute, 00:27:50.320 --> 00:27:55.750 align:middle line:84% now our cup and cheer under branches more ancient 00:27:55.750 --> 00:27:58.930 align:middle line:90% than our grandmother's hair. 00:27:58.930 --> 00:28:02.380 align:middle line:84% Passengers with memories of the sea 00:28:02.380 --> 00:28:07.300 align:middle line:84% may board leisurely at any unmarked gate. 00:28:07.300 --> 00:28:11.920 align:middle line:84% Faithful members of the phone may proceed to Azalea. 00:28:11.920 --> 00:28:14.500 align:middle line:90% 00:28:14.500 --> 00:28:16.630 align:middle line:90% Your attention please. 00:28:16.630 --> 00:28:21.670 align:middle line:84% Under falling petals, never think about home. 00:28:21.670 --> 00:28:25.870 align:middle line:90% Seeing begins in the dark. 00:28:25.870 --> 00:28:29.500 align:middle line:90% Listening stills us. 00:28:29.500 --> 00:28:34.060 align:middle line:84% Yesterday has gone ahead to meet you 00:28:34.060 --> 00:28:37.990 align:middle line:84% and the place in a book a man stops reading and marks 00:28:37.990 --> 00:28:42.580 align:middle line:84% with a feather is the place a girl escaped 00:28:42.580 --> 00:28:45.340 align:middle line:90% through her mother's garden. 00:28:45.340 --> 00:28:51.160 align:middle line:84% And between paired notes of the owl a boy disappeared. 00:28:51.160 --> 00:28:57.580 align:middle line:84% Search for him goes on in the growing shadow of the plot. 00:28:57.580 --> 00:29:03.340 align:middle line:84% And the face behind the clock's face is not his father's face. 00:29:03.340 --> 00:29:09.460 align:middle line:84% And the hands behind fox hands are not his mother's hands. 00:29:09.460 --> 00:29:13.360 align:middle line:84% All light bearing tears may be exchanged 00:29:13.360 --> 00:29:16.780 align:middle line:90% for the accomplished wine 00:29:16.780 --> 00:29:19.690 align:middle line:84% Your attention please train number 00:29:19.690 --> 00:29:25.780 align:middle line:84% 66 unbidden song soon to be the full hearts 00:29:25.780 --> 00:29:29.980 align:middle line:90% quiet takes no passengers. 00:29:29.980 --> 00:29:32.710 align:middle line:84% Please leave your baggage with the attendant 00:29:32.710 --> 00:29:37.960 align:middle line:84% at the window marked your name sprung from hiding. 00:29:37.960 --> 00:29:43.330 align:middle line:84% An intrepid perfume is waging our rescue. 00:29:43.330 --> 00:29:46.660 align:middle line:84% You may board at either end of childhood. 00:29:46.660 --> 00:29:58.150 align:middle line:90% 00:29:58.150 --> 00:29:59.490 align:middle line:90% This is called "Breathe". 00:29:59.490 --> 00:30:03.900 align:middle line:84% Thank you very much for your generous attention. 00:30:03.900 --> 00:30:07.750 align:middle line:90% 00:30:07.750 --> 00:30:08.430 align:middle line:90% "Breathe". 00:30:08.430 --> 00:30:13.750 align:middle line:90% 00:30:13.750 --> 00:30:20.200 align:middle line:84% After the wind stopped I started thinking about it, 00:30:20.200 --> 00:30:28.180 align:middle line:84% wondering if it was left handed, what if quickened or averted. 00:30:28.180 --> 00:30:31.750 align:middle line:90% And did it heard the newly dead. 00:30:31.750 --> 00:30:36.370 align:middle line:84% Through the gate my listening raised. 00:30:36.370 --> 00:30:41.980 align:middle line:84% You could say thinking comes after experience. 00:30:41.980 --> 00:30:47.890 align:middle line:84% You might figure knowledge is always late or else 00:30:47.890 --> 00:30:51.970 align:middle line:84% conclude that as long as I'm talking 00:30:51.970 --> 00:30:56.200 align:middle line:84% I'll never hear the name fire and air tell 00:30:56.200 --> 00:30:59.830 align:middle line:90% to each bowed head of grass. 00:30:59.830 --> 00:31:06.460 align:middle line:84% And where my arithmetic fails, an ancient memory of the future 00:31:06.460 --> 00:31:12.880 align:middle line:84% shapes even the finished stars, even the seeds of apples 00:31:12.880 --> 00:31:17.080 align:middle line:90% dying lovers overlook. 00:31:17.080 --> 00:31:19.840 align:middle line:84% What a faithful playmate we've made 00:31:19.840 --> 00:31:26.920 align:middle line:84% of death who incites our games by withholding and spurs 00:31:26.920 --> 00:31:33.380 align:middle line:84% our delicious cries by keeping the home in jeopardy. 00:31:33.380 --> 00:31:39.140 align:middle line:84% How sweetly it murmurs late, late. 00:31:39.140 --> 00:31:41.480 align:middle line:90% And yes, it's true. 00:31:41.480 --> 00:31:46.970 align:middle line:84% Evening deepened the color of our glass of wine and trees 00:31:46.970 --> 00:31:53.090 align:middle line:84% amassing dark seemed what, a country? 00:31:53.090 --> 00:31:55.550 align:middle line:90% A gathering voice? 00:31:55.550 --> 00:31:58.220 align:middle line:90% Another room? 00:31:58.220 --> 00:32:04.640 align:middle line:84% Death's been so long a guest at our table we forget alone 00:32:04.640 --> 00:32:10.490 align:middle line:84% means being alone of even that, dear nurse. 00:32:10.490 --> 00:32:14.930 align:middle line:90% Breathing, we are breathed. 00:32:14.930 --> 00:32:15.560 align:middle line:90% Thank you. 00:32:15.560 --> 00:32:43.832 align:middle line:90% [APPLAUSE] 00:32:43.832 --> 00:32:47.550 align:middle line:84% You have about 15, 20 minutes max for questions 00:32:47.550 --> 00:32:50.220 align:middle line:84% and then Li-Young will sign books out in the lobby. 00:32:50.220 --> 00:32:54.745 align:middle line:90% 00:32:54.745 --> 00:32:56.620 align:middle line:84% If you're shy you can write the question down 00:32:56.620 --> 00:32:58.972 align:middle line:84% on a sheet of paper and pass it up. 00:32:58.972 --> 00:33:07.730 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:33:07.730 --> 00:33:08.570 align:middle line:90% Yes. 00:33:08.570 --> 00:33:12.370 align:middle line:84% I have a question about like your process I guess. 00:33:12.370 --> 00:33:16.390 align:middle line:84% Like when you know a poem is finished. 00:33:16.390 --> 00:33:20.860 align:middle line:84% A lot of times you think of or at least I think of a poem 00:33:20.860 --> 00:33:25.780 align:middle line:84% as a sort of personal work of something written. 00:33:25.780 --> 00:33:31.390 align:middle line:84% But it becomes more like when it's shared with other people. 00:33:31.390 --> 00:33:35.110 align:middle line:84% When do you know that your poem is ready 00:33:35.110 --> 00:33:38.830 align:middle line:84% or you're ready to share it where 00:33:38.830 --> 00:33:42.730 align:middle line:84% it goes from sort of your personal experiences 00:33:42.730 --> 00:33:46.240 align:middle line:84% translating into something that you can share. 00:33:46.240 --> 00:33:49.450 align:middle line:84% That's a perennial question I think. 00:33:49.450 --> 00:33:52.270 align:middle line:84% Even writers who write a long time may be-- 00:33:52.270 --> 00:33:54.108 align:middle line:90% the simple answer is this. 00:33:54.108 --> 00:33:56.650 align:middle line:84% Li-Young, could you paraphrase the question for the audience 00:33:56.650 --> 00:33:57.430 align:middle line:90% so they can hear. 00:33:57.430 --> 00:33:59.180 align:middle line:84% I guess a rough paraphrase of the question 00:33:59.180 --> 00:34:04.690 align:middle line:84% is how do you know when a poem is ready to be shared. 00:34:04.690 --> 00:34:05.190 align:middle line:90% Was that? 00:34:05.190 --> 00:34:05.690 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:34:05.690 --> 00:34:08.800 align:middle line:90% 00:34:08.800 --> 00:34:10.960 align:middle line:84% First of all, I'll tell you about a couple 00:34:10.960 --> 00:34:13.270 align:middle line:84% of assumptions maybe write this sideways. 00:34:13.270 --> 00:34:16.300 align:middle line:90% 00:34:16.300 --> 00:34:18.880 align:middle line:84% I think a poem participates in a kind 00:34:18.880 --> 00:34:22.120 align:middle line:90% of a triaxial relationship. 00:34:22.120 --> 00:34:26.199 align:middle line:84% There's the poet, the writer, and then 00:34:26.199 --> 00:34:31.449 align:middle line:84% there is his or her demon or angel or master 00:34:31.449 --> 00:34:32.860 align:middle line:90% or whatever you know. 00:34:32.860 --> 00:34:37.429 align:middle line:84% Dickinson was a master, Whitman was the cosmic self and Lorca 00:34:37.429 --> 00:34:39.400 align:middle line:90% of the duende and so on. 00:34:39.400 --> 00:34:41.840 align:middle line:84% It's some sort of demonization that occurs, 00:34:41.840 --> 00:34:43.659 align:middle line:84% which is the second axes of that. 00:34:43.659 --> 00:34:45.480 align:middle line:84% And then the audience is the third axis 00:34:45.480 --> 00:34:50.485 align:middle line:84% in which the audience is a kind of witness to that. 00:34:50.485 --> 00:34:54.040 align:middle line:84% So I suppose when the demon has had enough of you 00:34:54.040 --> 00:34:57.800 align:middle line:84% and spit you out and that's one way to look at it. 00:34:57.800 --> 00:34:59.320 align:middle line:84% But then another way and may be it's 00:34:59.320 --> 00:35:03.880 align:middle line:84% an oversimplification too is I think a poem is ultimately 00:35:03.880 --> 00:35:09.850 align:middle line:84% a negotiation between probability and randomness. 00:35:09.850 --> 00:35:12.460 align:middle line:84% But informal poetry you see it's very obvious. 00:35:12.460 --> 00:35:16.720 align:middle line:84% The formal considerations that's the probability, right? 00:35:16.720 --> 00:35:20.290 align:middle line:84% I mean if you have a villanelle now the repeated line that's 00:35:20.290 --> 00:35:21.700 align:middle line:90% the probability quotient. 00:35:21.700 --> 00:35:24.610 align:middle line:84% If the line is awake to sleep and take my waking 00:35:24.610 --> 00:35:27.800 align:middle line:84% slow probably that will be the repetitive line. 00:35:27.800 --> 00:35:29.500 align:middle line:84% And if it's a rhyme scheme that's 00:35:29.500 --> 00:35:30.860 align:middle line:90% your probability quotient. 00:35:30.860 --> 00:35:34.360 align:middle line:84% And what makes it interesting is you have to up the random 00:35:34.360 --> 00:35:38.333 align:middle line:84% quotient you know so that it doesn't get too overdetermined. 00:35:38.333 --> 00:35:40.000 align:middle line:84% And I think what you're trying to win in 00:35:40.000 --> 00:35:43.090 align:middle line:84% that kind of negotiation is ultimately freedom. 00:35:43.090 --> 00:35:46.750 align:middle line:84% The thing to remember I think is over determination 00:35:46.750 --> 00:35:49.750 align:middle line:84% and over probability is a kind of tyranny. 00:35:49.750 --> 00:35:52.030 align:middle line:84% But then randomness, complete randomness 00:35:52.030 --> 00:35:54.670 align:middle line:90% is its own form of tyranny. 00:35:54.670 --> 00:35:57.760 align:middle line:84% I mean sometimes we think well the only escape-- 00:35:57.760 --> 00:36:00.322 align:middle line:84% freedom would be an escape from probability. 00:36:00.322 --> 00:36:01.780 align:middle line:84% But imagine what your life would be 00:36:01.780 --> 00:36:03.822 align:middle line:84% like if it was just random from beginning to end, 00:36:03.822 --> 00:36:05.090 align:middle line:90% it would just be terrible. 00:36:05.090 --> 00:36:08.650 align:middle line:84% So I think freedom is some sort of-- the only possible freedom 00:36:08.650 --> 00:36:11.080 align:middle line:84% we have is some sort of negotiation between those two 00:36:11.080 --> 00:36:13.750 align:middle line:90% poles you know. 00:36:13.750 --> 00:36:16.300 align:middle line:84% And I think that's the limitation of automatic writing 00:36:16.300 --> 00:36:18.880 align:middle line:84% is that it's its own form of tyranny. 00:36:18.880 --> 00:36:20.530 align:middle line:84% And so I guess a poem is finished 00:36:20.530 --> 00:36:24.940 align:middle line:84% or ready to be shared when it's a perfect negotiation, 00:36:24.940 --> 00:36:28.690 align:middle line:84% a happy living dance between those two poles of mind. 00:36:28.690 --> 00:36:30.340 align:middle line:84% And it seems to me that those are 00:36:30.340 --> 00:36:32.590 align:middle line:84% psychic poles you know that the mind tends 00:36:32.590 --> 00:36:35.410 align:middle line:84% toward probability on one hand and the pattern 00:36:35.410 --> 00:36:36.970 align:middle line:90% making rigidity. 00:36:36.970 --> 00:36:41.150 align:middle line:84% And it tends toward randomness and chance on the other hand. 00:36:41.150 --> 00:36:43.220 align:middle line:90% Does that make any sense? 00:36:43.220 --> 00:36:45.940 align:middle line:84% So it seems to me that then it would be ready-- 00:36:45.940 --> 00:36:48.460 align:middle line:84% that the poem would be ready then I think. 00:36:48.460 --> 00:36:51.130 align:middle line:90% 00:36:51.130 --> 00:36:52.140 align:middle line:90% Yes. 00:36:52.140 --> 00:36:53.790 align:middle line:84% I'm really intrigued by your idea 00:36:53.790 --> 00:36:56.400 align:middle line:84% that every wise child is sad and I just 00:36:56.400 --> 00:36:59.703 align:middle line:84% wanted to know, how do you personally define wisdom. 00:36:59.703 --> 00:37:03.090 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:37:03.090 --> 00:37:04.320 align:middle line:90% You know I don't know. 00:37:04.320 --> 00:37:06.060 align:middle line:84% And I don't even know if that poem-- 00:37:06.060 --> 00:37:07.710 align:middle line:84% I mean I keep knocking on that poem. 00:37:07.710 --> 00:37:09.780 align:middle line:84% I can't tell-- you know like I can't tell whether 00:37:09.780 --> 00:37:12.030 align:middle line:84% there's a personal agenda on that poem trying to prove 00:37:12.030 --> 00:37:13.140 align:middle line:90% my sister wrong or-- 00:37:13.140 --> 00:37:15.400 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:37:15.400 --> 00:37:17.175 align:middle line:90% But it does seem to me that-- 00:37:17.175 --> 00:37:19.950 align:middle line:90% 00:37:19.950 --> 00:37:20.970 align:middle line:90% I'm guessing now. 00:37:20.970 --> 00:37:23.100 align:middle line:84% And it seems to me that if I were wise I probably 00:37:23.100 --> 00:37:24.308 align:middle line:90% wouldn't be talking about it. 00:37:24.308 --> 00:37:26.552 align:middle line:84% It's because I'm not and you're going to see it. 00:37:26.552 --> 00:37:28.260 align:middle line:84% But it seems to me it has something to do 00:37:28.260 --> 00:37:29.670 align:middle line:90% with disillusionment, right? 00:37:29.670 --> 00:37:32.130 align:middle line:90% Freedom from illusion. 00:37:32.130 --> 00:37:34.578 align:middle line:84% And one nobody wants-- you know I actually 00:37:34.578 --> 00:37:37.245 align:middle line:84% had a poet say to me Li-Young I don't want to be disillusioned. 00:37:37.245 --> 00:37:38.495 align:middle line:90% I said what do you want to be? 00:37:38.495 --> 00:37:40.830 align:middle line:90% Illusioned? 00:37:40.830 --> 00:37:46.020 align:middle line:84% So it seems to me that art is apocalyptic, you 00:37:46.020 --> 00:37:50.610 align:middle line:84% know this word apocalypse, revealed, to reveal? 00:37:50.610 --> 00:37:52.960 align:middle line:90% Eclipse is the cover? 00:37:52.960 --> 00:37:55.650 align:middle line:90% So all art is apocalyptic. 00:37:55.650 --> 00:37:56.430 align:middle line:90% It reveals. 00:37:56.430 --> 00:37:58.890 align:middle line:84% It frees us of illusions in order 00:37:58.890 --> 00:38:03.120 align:middle line:84% to uncover what I would call a condition of saturated meaning. 00:38:03.120 --> 00:38:05.880 align:middle line:84% We would understand, we would experience 00:38:05.880 --> 00:38:10.170 align:middle line:84% that everything is saturated with presence and being. 00:38:10.170 --> 00:38:13.890 align:middle line:84% I mean, I think Dallas knew that, the Christian mystics 00:38:13.890 --> 00:38:17.130 align:middle line:84% knew that, Plato knew that or Socrates knew that. 00:38:17.130 --> 00:38:21.300 align:middle line:90% So where am I? 00:38:21.300 --> 00:38:23.940 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:38:23.940 --> 00:38:24.690 align:middle line:90% Wisdom. 00:38:24.690 --> 00:38:26.250 align:middle line:90% I think there's an ini-- 00:38:26.250 --> 00:38:28.590 align:middle line:84% I think there's an initial kind of melancholy 00:38:28.590 --> 00:38:31.860 align:middle line:84% that when you experience disillusionment 00:38:31.860 --> 00:38:34.208 align:middle line:84% when you're bereft of your illusions 00:38:34.208 --> 00:38:36.000 align:middle line:84% you know you initially experience something 00:38:36.000 --> 00:38:37.740 align:middle line:90% like sadness, right? 00:38:37.740 --> 00:38:39.520 align:middle line:84% But I think if we hang on long enough, 00:38:39.520 --> 00:38:43.020 align:middle line:84% it becomes kind of ecstatic, it becomes ecstasy 00:38:43.020 --> 00:38:47.070 align:middle line:84% because we want to be disillusioned I think, right? 00:38:47.070 --> 00:38:50.340 align:middle line:84% You know I think other forms of media like TV, magazines, 00:38:50.340 --> 00:38:53.460 align:middle line:84% they're all in the business of illusionment. 00:38:53.460 --> 00:38:57.270 align:middle line:84% I think art and poetry is in the forefront-- 00:38:57.270 --> 00:39:00.300 align:middle line:84% its mission is to disillusion us in order 00:39:00.300 --> 00:39:05.130 align:middle line:84% to uncover the sacred condition of our being here. 00:39:05.130 --> 00:39:09.120 align:middle line:84% By sacred I mean things being saturated with presence. 00:39:09.120 --> 00:39:15.720 align:middle line:90% 00:39:15.720 --> 00:39:16.694 align:middle line:90% Yes. 00:39:16.694 --> 00:39:19.365 align:middle line:84% Not really a question just an observation 00:39:19.365 --> 00:39:23.110 align:middle line:90% regarding your comments on it. 00:39:23.110 --> 00:39:25.940 align:middle line:84% Again and again in your reading, I 00:39:25.940 --> 00:39:28.210 align:middle line:84% heard you come to the point in the poem 00:39:28.210 --> 00:39:30.430 align:middle line:84% that I thought, oh, this is the end. 00:39:30.430 --> 00:39:33.456 align:middle line:84% But then you keep going, and it seems 00:39:33.456 --> 00:39:36.496 align:middle line:90% like you did that unerringly. 00:39:36.496 --> 00:39:41.880 align:middle line:84% It seems like pretty daring though, from as a writer-- 00:39:41.880 --> 00:39:45.524 align:middle line:84% like, oh, this is the end of the poem, but no, it keeps going, 00:39:45.524 --> 00:39:47.432 align:middle line:90% and it doesn't stop. 00:39:47.432 --> 00:39:48.870 align:middle line:90% It keeps going. 00:39:48.870 --> 00:39:51.120 align:middle line:84% It's probably because I don't know when to shut up. 00:39:51.120 --> 00:39:53.430 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:39:53.430 --> 00:39:56.302 align:middle line:84% You know what happens is you when you're writing that thing 00:39:56.302 --> 00:39:58.260 align:middle line:84% and it starts happening and you're riding along 00:39:58.260 --> 00:40:00.660 align:middle line:84% and it wants to end you said no, no, no, don't go. 00:40:00.660 --> 00:40:02.730 align:middle line:90% You attack on all these stanzas. 00:40:02.730 --> 00:40:04.230 align:middle line:84% For all I know that's the last thing 00:40:04.230 --> 00:40:06.430 align:middle line:84% are dribble you know I mean, for all I know. 00:40:06.430 --> 00:40:07.980 align:middle line:90% But I mean it's hard. 00:40:07.980 --> 00:40:12.210 align:middle line:84% But I think also it's a kind of-- 00:40:12.210 --> 00:40:17.320 align:middle line:84% I believe in some sort of like unbroken discourse going on, 00:40:17.320 --> 00:40:18.880 align:middle line:90% which is the universe. 00:40:18.880 --> 00:40:22.030 align:middle line:84% It's like everything is discoursing with each other, 00:40:22.030 --> 00:40:24.180 align:middle line:84% everything is breathing each other in and out. 00:40:24.180 --> 00:40:29.430 align:middle line:84% And somehow, my own hunger or obsession 00:40:29.430 --> 00:40:36.240 align:middle line:84% to try to mine that and make an unbroken thing sometimes 00:40:36.240 --> 00:40:40.380 align:middle line:84% makes the poem go on longer than maybe it should, I don't know. 00:40:40.380 --> 00:40:44.770 align:middle line:90% 00:40:44.770 --> 00:40:45.520 align:middle line:90% Bad craftsmanship. 00:40:45.520 --> 00:40:48.892 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:40:48.892 --> 00:40:52.525 align:middle line:84% When did you know that you will be a poet 00:40:52.525 --> 00:40:55.471 align:middle line:84% and who inspires you to write poems. 00:40:55.471 --> 00:40:58.390 align:middle line:90% 00:40:58.390 --> 00:41:01.000 align:middle line:84% When did I know I was going to be a poet. 00:41:01.000 --> 00:41:04.990 align:middle line:84% To this day I don't know if I'm a poet. 00:41:04.990 --> 00:41:06.010 align:middle line:90% I feel as if-- 00:41:06.010 --> 00:41:08.170 align:middle line:84% I don't even know if what I read-- 00:41:08.170 --> 00:41:10.935 align:middle line:84% tonight I feel like a poser, I feel like a pretender. 00:41:10.935 --> 00:41:12.310 align:middle line:84% I'm not sure if they were poems. 00:41:12.310 --> 00:41:17.800 align:middle line:84% Yeah, I know they were some sort of writing and there were lines 00:41:17.800 --> 00:41:20.170 align:middle line:90% but you know I don't-- 00:41:20.170 --> 00:41:25.381 align:middle line:90% I knew I had-- 00:41:25.381 --> 00:41:30.880 align:middle line:84% I had some really great teachers who, one of them was here, 00:41:30.880 --> 00:41:34.300 align:middle line:84% who impressed upon me that somehow poem making and person 00:41:34.300 --> 00:41:38.770 align:middle line:84% making they are the same thing you know. 00:41:38.770 --> 00:41:41.950 align:middle line:84% And that started me thinking about 00:41:41.950 --> 00:41:44.380 align:middle line:90% that poetry was a viable yoga. 00:41:44.380 --> 00:41:46.510 align:middle line:90% It was a yoga that you do. 00:41:46.510 --> 00:41:51.370 align:middle line:84% The opus, the work, the grail isn't even the poem. 00:41:51.370 --> 00:41:54.670 align:middle line:84% It isn't the book of poems, it isn't a prize. 00:41:54.670 --> 00:41:58.930 align:middle line:84% It's self-knowledge something like that. 00:41:58.930 --> 00:42:02.920 align:middle line:84% And so I suppose when I began to understand that I 00:42:02.920 --> 00:42:04.360 align:middle line:90% dedicated myself to that yoga. 00:42:04.360 --> 00:42:07.540 align:middle line:90% 00:42:07.540 --> 00:42:10.250 align:middle line:90% I think everybody can do it. 00:42:10.250 --> 00:42:12.564 align:middle line:84% And so I don't think it's a particular moment. 00:42:12.564 --> 00:42:15.170 align:middle line:90% 00:42:15.170 --> 00:42:15.770 align:middle line:90% Yes. 00:42:15.770 --> 00:42:19.730 align:middle line:84% What was your experience when you were speaking here about-- 00:42:19.730 --> 00:42:25.070 align:middle line:90% 00:42:25.070 --> 00:42:27.050 align:middle line:84% Well, it was baffling on the one hand 00:42:27.050 --> 00:42:34.430 align:middle line:84% but I was rescued by some very fine teachers I had too. 00:42:34.430 --> 00:42:36.380 align:middle line:84% It went from everything-- but you 00:42:36.380 --> 00:42:39.063 align:middle line:90% know I was a terrible student. 00:42:39.063 --> 00:42:40.730 align:middle line:84% I mean I flunked out here then I tried-- 00:42:40.730 --> 00:42:42.035 align:middle line:84% I thought the problem is with the school 00:42:42.035 --> 00:42:44.160 align:middle line:84% so I went to another school and I flunked out there 00:42:44.160 --> 00:42:46.270 align:middle line:84% and it dawned on me it isn't the school it's me. 00:42:46.270 --> 00:42:49.244 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:42:49.244 --> 00:42:52.010 align:middle line:90% 00:42:52.010 --> 00:42:52.760 align:middle line:90% Yeah, I was just-- 00:42:52.760 --> 00:42:54.860 align:middle line:90% I think I was-- 00:42:54.860 --> 00:42:58.760 align:middle line:90% 00:42:58.760 --> 00:43:05.960 align:middle line:84% my prejudice is that-- my belief is that poetry is a yoga. 00:43:05.960 --> 00:43:08.660 align:middle line:84% You know this word yoga, Y-O-G-A? 00:43:08.660 --> 00:43:09.950 align:middle line:90% It's Sanskrit. 00:43:09.950 --> 00:43:13.250 align:middle line:84% It means yoke, link, connection, bond, 00:43:13.250 --> 00:43:17.420 align:middle line:84% the exact equivalent in Latin is the word religio R-E-L-I-G-I-O. 00:43:17.420 --> 00:43:19.580 align:middle line:84% We get the word religion, religious from that. 00:43:19.580 --> 00:43:23.210 align:middle line:84% In Latin means link, connection, bond. 00:43:23.210 --> 00:43:25.450 align:middle line:84% It dawns on me whether it's or not something is yogic 00:43:25.450 --> 00:43:27.950 align:middle line:84% or religious doesn't have to do with whether you're doing it 00:43:27.950 --> 00:43:29.125 align:middle line:90% in a temple or a church. 00:43:29.125 --> 00:43:31.250 align:middle line:84% You know it has to do with the quality of attention 00:43:31.250 --> 00:43:32.220 align:middle line:90% you bring to it. 00:43:32.220 --> 00:43:34.768 align:middle line:84% So I suppose pouring a glass of water 00:43:34.768 --> 00:43:36.810 align:middle line:84% or sweeping the floor could be yogic or religious 00:43:36.810 --> 00:43:39.500 align:middle line:84% to the attention you bring to it, you know what I mean. 00:43:39.500 --> 00:43:42.020 align:middle line:84% I had on the one hand a teacher who 00:43:42.020 --> 00:43:44.000 align:middle line:84% was kind of intimating those kinds of things. 00:43:44.000 --> 00:43:48.540 align:middle line:84% Like I said that poetry making and person making were the same 00:43:48.540 --> 00:43:49.040 align:middle line:90% you know. 00:43:49.040 --> 00:43:53.150 align:middle line:84% And then I had other experiences where I had the feeling 00:43:53.150 --> 00:43:56.030 align:middle line:84% that poetry was the making of I don't know 00:43:56.030 --> 00:43:57.680 align:middle line:90% doilies or knickknacks or-- 00:43:57.680 --> 00:43:59.135 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHED] 00:43:59.135 --> 00:44:06.274 align:middle line:84% It baffled me but I guess that's the way maybe it is. 00:44:06.274 --> 00:44:08.260 align:middle line:84% I don't know, I should stop there. 00:44:08.260 --> 00:44:11.840 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:44:11.840 --> 00:44:13.310 align:middle line:84% We have time for one more question. 00:44:13.310 --> 00:44:13.810 align:middle line:90% One more. 00:44:13.810 --> 00:44:14.920 align:middle line:90% Yes. 00:44:14.920 --> 00:44:17.830 align:middle line:84% One of my favorite poems is the woman has a mine. 00:44:17.830 --> 00:44:19.990 align:middle line:90% Tell me a story about that. 00:44:19.990 --> 00:44:23.560 align:middle line:84% Can you talk about that poem and the background of the poem 00:44:23.560 --> 00:44:26.160 align:middle line:90% and how that poem came to be. 00:44:26.160 --> 00:44:28.050 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:44:28.050 --> 00:44:28.710 align:middle line:90% Thank you. 00:44:28.710 --> 00:44:30.240 align:middle line:84% Maybe I'll say a few things and then 00:44:30.240 --> 00:44:32.240 align:middle line:84% maybe I'll finish with that poem because I think 00:44:32.240 --> 00:44:33.840 align:middle line:90% we should finish with poetry. 00:44:33.840 --> 00:44:37.050 align:middle line:84% But that poem I mean is just very autobiographical. 00:44:37.050 --> 00:44:38.250 align:middle line:90% You know is my-- 00:44:38.250 --> 00:44:43.470 align:middle line:84% I would tell my son stories all the time. 00:44:43.470 --> 00:44:46.460 align:middle line:84% And I felt at the time that that was 00:44:46.460 --> 00:44:48.960 align:middle line:84% one of the rich things I could give them because I was never 00:44:48.960 --> 00:44:51.930 align:middle line:84% in a loss for story until one day I really 00:44:51.930 --> 00:44:53.490 align:middle line:90% was at a loss for a story. 00:44:53.490 --> 00:44:56.130 align:middle line:84% I could not think of a story you know. 00:44:56.130 --> 00:44:59.460 align:middle line:84% And he didn't want to be read one he wanted one made up. 00:44:59.460 --> 00:45:03.360 align:middle line:90% He demanded it and I panicked. 00:45:03.360 --> 00:45:07.020 align:middle line:84% You know I just started thinking, boy this is-- 00:45:07.020 --> 00:45:11.580 align:middle line:84% what a disappointing father I am because-- 00:45:11.580 --> 00:45:12.720 align:middle line:90% yeah, so that was-- 00:45:12.720 --> 00:45:13.590 align:middle line:90% I'll read the poem. 00:45:13.590 --> 00:45:18.480 align:middle line:90% 00:45:18.480 --> 00:45:21.600 align:middle line:84% Thank you again everybody for coming out and-- 00:45:21.600 --> 00:45:24.053 align:middle line:90% 00:45:24.053 --> 00:45:25.095 align:middle line:90% This is called "A story". 00:45:25.095 --> 00:45:29.154 align:middle line:90% 00:45:29.154 --> 00:45:29.975 align:middle line:90% "A story." 00:45:29.975 --> 00:45:33.310 align:middle line:90% 00:45:33.310 --> 00:45:38.350 align:middle line:84% Sad is the man who is asked for a story 00:45:38.350 --> 00:45:42.130 align:middle line:90% and can't come up with one. 00:45:42.130 --> 00:45:46.090 align:middle line:84% His five-year-old son waits in his lap. 00:45:46.090 --> 00:45:51.130 align:middle line:84% Not the same story baba, a new one. 00:45:51.130 --> 00:45:56.320 align:middle line:84% The man rubs his chin, scratches his ear. 00:45:56.320 --> 00:46:01.030 align:middle line:84% In a room full of books and a world of stories 00:46:01.030 --> 00:46:04.540 align:middle line:90% he can recall not one. 00:46:04.540 --> 00:46:10.780 align:middle line:84% And soon he thinks the boy will give up on his father. 00:46:10.780 --> 00:46:13.750 align:middle line:90% Already the man lives far ahead. 00:46:13.750 --> 00:46:17.950 align:middle line:84% He sees the day this boy will go. 00:46:17.950 --> 00:46:19.750 align:middle line:90% Don't go. 00:46:19.750 --> 00:46:24.910 align:middle line:84% Here the alligator story, the angel story once more. 00:46:24.910 --> 00:46:27.070 align:middle line:90% You love the spider story. 00:46:27.070 --> 00:46:28.630 align:middle line:90% You laugh at the spider. 00:46:28.630 --> 00:46:31.360 align:middle line:90% Let me tell it. 00:46:31.360 --> 00:46:34.090 align:middle line:84% But the boy is packing his shirts. 00:46:34.090 --> 00:46:36.700 align:middle line:90% He is looking for his keys. 00:46:36.700 --> 00:46:37.990 align:middle line:90% Are you a God? 00:46:37.990 --> 00:46:42.790 align:middle line:84% The man screams that I sit mute before you. 00:46:42.790 --> 00:46:48.040 align:middle line:84% Am I a God that I should never disappoint? 00:46:48.040 --> 00:46:50.560 align:middle line:90% But the boy is here. 00:46:50.560 --> 00:46:54.850 align:middle line:90% Please, baba a story. 00:46:54.850 --> 00:46:59.590 align:middle line:84% It's an emotional rather than logical equation. 00:46:59.590 --> 00:47:03.910 align:middle line:84% And earthly rather than heavenly one 00:47:03.910 --> 00:47:09.040 align:middle line:84% which posits that a boy's supplications and a father's 00:47:09.040 --> 00:47:13.217 align:middle line:90% love add up to silence. 00:47:13.217 --> 00:47:14.050 align:middle line:90% Thank you very much. 00:47:14.050 --> 00:47:17.100 align:middle line:90% [APPLAUSE] 00:47:17.100 --> 00:47:26.000 align:middle line:90%