WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:00.510 align:middle line:90% 00:00:00.510 --> 00:00:03.990 align:middle line:90% Luis, this is a question about-- 00:00:03.990 --> 00:00:05.790 align:middle line:84% I mentioned a little bit about all the work 00:00:05.790 --> 00:00:09.670 align:middle line:84% that Tia Chucha's Cultural Center is doing. 00:00:09.670 --> 00:00:12.240 align:middle line:90% And one of them is the press. 00:00:12.240 --> 00:00:15.720 align:middle line:84% And I was having a conversation with Rigoberto González 00:00:15.720 --> 00:00:16.290 align:middle line:90% recently. 00:00:16.290 --> 00:00:20.970 align:middle line:84% And he talked about how Tia Chucha's Press, early on, 00:00:20.970 --> 00:00:22.800 align:middle line:84% published some of the first books, 00:00:22.800 --> 00:00:26.580 align:middle line:84% and sometimes the second books, of Terrance Hayes, Elizabeth 00:00:26.580 --> 00:00:29.040 align:middle line:84% Alexander, A. Van Jordan, and Patricia 00:00:29.040 --> 00:00:32.490 align:middle line:90% Smith-- all amazing poets. 00:00:32.490 --> 00:00:36.030 align:middle line:84% And you also have given a talk, previously, 00:00:36.030 --> 00:00:38.730 align:middle line:84% related to this question, at the Art for Justice 00:00:38.730 --> 00:00:43.110 align:middle line:84% conference in New Orleans about the intersection between Black 00:00:43.110 --> 00:00:44.740 align:middle line:90% and Brown communities. 00:00:44.740 --> 00:00:49.650 align:middle line:84% And I wondered if you could talk a little bit about that topic 00:00:49.650 --> 00:00:53.370 align:middle line:84% and what drew you to the work, because, oftentimes, we 00:00:53.370 --> 00:00:56.280 align:middle line:84% become classified like the Brown community can only 00:00:56.280 --> 00:00:57.540 align:middle line:90% support the Brown community. 00:00:57.540 --> 00:01:00.667 align:middle line:84% And the Black community-- and it's created a lot of division. 00:01:00.667 --> 00:01:02.250 align:middle line:84% And I just wanted to know if you could 00:01:02.250 --> 00:01:03.960 align:middle line:84% speak a little bit about that topic, 00:01:03.960 --> 00:01:06.060 align:middle line:84% because it's been on all of our minds. 00:01:06.060 --> 00:01:08.850 align:middle line:84% Yeah, because people think, well, it's Tia Chucha Press. 00:01:08.850 --> 00:01:11.400 align:middle line:84% And Luis Rodriguez is the founding editor. 00:01:11.400 --> 00:01:14.155 align:middle line:84% It's going to be all about Chicanos or maybe at least 00:01:14.155 --> 00:01:14.655 align:middle line:90% LatinX. 00:01:14.655 --> 00:01:16.590 align:middle line:90% You know what I mean. 00:01:16.590 --> 00:01:19.020 align:middle line:84% My criteria, Michael knows this because he was there 00:01:19.020 --> 00:01:22.770 align:middle line:84% in the beginning, was the best poets that I could find. 00:01:22.770 --> 00:01:24.600 align:middle line:90% You know what I'm saying? 00:01:24.600 --> 00:01:26.250 align:middle line:84% I didn't look at race or ethnicity. 00:01:26.250 --> 00:01:28.080 align:middle line:90% I just wanted the best poets. 00:01:28.080 --> 00:01:31.020 align:middle line:84% But I also wanted those poets that other people probably 00:01:31.020 --> 00:01:33.940 align:middle line:84% were not going to publish, at least at the time. 00:01:33.940 --> 00:01:37.830 align:middle line:84% And so, both me and Michael were part of the slam poetry scene 00:01:37.830 --> 00:01:39.180 align:middle line:90% that came out of Chicago. 00:01:39.180 --> 00:01:41.640 align:middle line:90% We were both very active in it. 00:01:41.640 --> 00:01:45.900 align:middle line:84% The Guild Complex, which Michael was the founding director and I 00:01:45.900 --> 00:01:48.930 align:middle line:84% helped in the first meetings that we had created, 00:01:48.930 --> 00:01:50.650 align:middle line:90% was really enmeshed with that. 00:01:50.650 --> 00:01:55.320 align:middle line:84% So what I was looking for was the slam poets 00:01:55.320 --> 00:01:59.880 align:middle line:84% that were also not just good on the stage but on the page. 00:01:59.880 --> 00:02:00.970 align:middle line:90% I was looking for that. 00:02:00.970 --> 00:02:02.670 align:middle line:84% That's how Patricia Smith got published 00:02:02.670 --> 00:02:09.449 align:middle line:84% and a lot of great people, Lisa Buscani and Tony Fitzpatrick. 00:02:09.449 --> 00:02:12.000 align:middle line:84% A number of great poets that came out of there. 00:02:12.000 --> 00:02:13.797 align:middle line:90% David Hernandez. 00:02:13.797 --> 00:02:15.630 align:middle line:84% A lot of great poets came out of that scene. 00:02:15.630 --> 00:02:17.970 align:middle line:84% And then, pretty soon, it became people 00:02:17.970 --> 00:02:19.950 align:middle line:84% who knew me were sending me manuscripts 00:02:19.950 --> 00:02:21.390 align:middle line:90% from all over the country. 00:02:21.390 --> 00:02:24.450 align:middle line:84% And including friends of mine that ran-- 00:02:24.450 --> 00:02:26.430 align:middle line:90% they were in writing programs. 00:02:26.430 --> 00:02:28.710 align:middle line:84% That's how I met Luivette because Martín Espada, 00:02:28.710 --> 00:02:30.750 align:middle line:84% my good friend, sent me her work. 00:02:30.750 --> 00:02:32.790 align:middle line:90% And I said I want this. 00:02:32.790 --> 00:02:34.650 align:middle line:84% So the people then send me things. 00:02:34.650 --> 00:02:36.870 align:middle line:84% And that's how we became Tia Chucha Press. 00:02:36.870 --> 00:02:40.440 align:middle line:84% And again, the criteria wasn't what race, or what ethnicity, 00:02:40.440 --> 00:02:42.330 align:middle line:84% or whether you were queer or not. 00:02:42.330 --> 00:02:43.960 align:middle line:84% We wanted to hear from everybody. 00:02:43.960 --> 00:02:44.460 align:middle line:90% And we did. 00:02:44.460 --> 00:02:47.010 align:middle line:84% We published so many great voices. 00:02:47.010 --> 00:02:49.020 align:middle line:90% I love all my books. 00:02:49.020 --> 00:02:53.160 align:middle line:84% I have to say that some have risen up faster and so more 00:02:53.160 --> 00:02:54.010 align:middle line:90% than others. 00:02:54.010 --> 00:02:56.640 align:middle line:90% I wish all of them sold as well. 00:02:56.640 --> 00:02:59.170 align:middle line:84% But now we have an editorial committee. 00:02:59.170 --> 00:03:01.320 align:middle line:84% It's not just me making these decisions. 00:03:01.320 --> 00:03:04.050 align:middle line:84% Now we do work with other people who help us bring in 00:03:04.050 --> 00:03:06.870 align:middle line:90% more voices and everything. 00:03:06.870 --> 00:03:08.070 align:middle line:90% That's the way it's worked. 00:03:08.070 --> 00:03:09.390 align:middle line:90% You just wanted to do the best. 00:03:09.390 --> 00:03:11.090 align:middle line:90% And some of them have done well. 00:03:11.090 --> 00:03:16.110 align:middle line:84% Another thing about the nexus of Black and Brown was-- 00:03:16.110 --> 00:03:18.990 align:middle line:84% I think Black Scholar magazine called Tia Chucha Press 00:03:18.990 --> 00:03:22.080 align:middle line:84% one of the best African-American presses, 00:03:22.080 --> 00:03:25.500 align:middle line:84% only because of the fact that these African-American poets 00:03:25.500 --> 00:03:27.150 align:middle line:90% you talked about have risen up. 00:03:27.150 --> 00:03:30.910 align:middle line:84% Terrance, Patricia, of course, and Elizabeth. 00:03:30.910 --> 00:03:33.510 align:middle line:84% They've all risen up and done very well. 00:03:33.510 --> 00:03:36.070 align:middle line:84% So people thought that we were an African-American press. 00:03:36.070 --> 00:03:38.610 align:middle line:84% But, again, I don't mind any of that. 00:03:38.610 --> 00:03:41.820 align:middle line:84% For me, I've always lived in Black and Brown communities. 00:03:41.820 --> 00:03:44.520 align:middle line:84% To me, Black and Brown is the urban world. 00:03:44.520 --> 00:03:47.460 align:middle line:84% I think the White media world doesn't understand this, 00:03:47.460 --> 00:03:49.740 align:middle line:84% so they're always separating Black from Brown. 00:03:49.740 --> 00:03:51.180 align:middle line:90% You know what I'm saying? 00:03:51.180 --> 00:03:54.740 align:middle line:84% I mean, hip-hop is Black and Brown. 00:03:54.740 --> 00:03:56.990 align:middle line:84% I mean, Luivette knows this because I actually 00:03:56.990 --> 00:04:00.710 align:middle line:84% went to the Bronx in 1981 when it was happening everywhere, 00:04:00.710 --> 00:04:02.190 align:middle line:84% when there was all over the place. 00:04:02.190 --> 00:04:03.470 align:middle line:84% I don't know if you were even born then. 00:04:03.470 --> 00:04:04.740 align:middle line:90% Luivette, I think you were. 00:04:04.740 --> 00:04:07.580 align:middle line:84% But, anyway, the point was, it was all over the place. 00:04:07.580 --> 00:04:10.310 align:middle line:84% I went there, and it was all Black and Brown. 00:04:10.310 --> 00:04:15.350 align:middle line:84% It was African-American, but also West-Indies, Black, 00:04:15.350 --> 00:04:16.760 align:middle line:90% and also Puerto Rican. 00:04:16.760 --> 00:04:19.140 align:middle line:84% In other words, that was the heart of it. 00:04:19.140 --> 00:04:21.829 align:middle line:84% And the same thing with low-riding culture. 00:04:21.829 --> 00:04:24.800 align:middle line:84% The same thing with urban-- almost all urban culture 00:04:24.800 --> 00:04:26.810 align:middle line:84% in the United States is Black and Brown. 00:04:26.810 --> 00:04:32.090 align:middle line:84% But what I find is that the media tends to separate it, 00:04:32.090 --> 00:04:33.890 align:middle line:84% tends to say, this is Black culture, 00:04:33.890 --> 00:04:35.300 align:middle line:90% and here's Brown culture. 00:04:35.300 --> 00:04:36.530 align:middle line:90% And it's like, wait a minute. 00:04:36.530 --> 00:04:39.320 align:middle line:84% I grew up in these barrio ghettos all my life. 00:04:39.320 --> 00:04:40.100 align:middle line:90% That's all I know. 00:04:40.100 --> 00:04:42.920 align:middle line:84% And even Pacoima, where we're at now, is a barrio ghetto. 00:04:42.920 --> 00:04:44.270 align:middle line:90% Housing projects, [gangs ?]. 00:04:44.270 --> 00:04:46.310 align:middle line:90% It's Black and Brown. 00:04:46.310 --> 00:04:48.440 align:middle line:84% In a way, I think that's the point. 00:04:48.440 --> 00:04:50.690 align:middle line:84% In Chicago, where we were at, me and Michael, 00:04:50.690 --> 00:04:52.790 align:middle line:84% we lived in Black and Brown communities. 00:04:52.790 --> 00:04:54.830 align:middle line:90% That's what it was. 00:04:54.830 --> 00:04:57.050 align:middle line:84% So that's the only thing I could say. 00:04:57.050 --> 00:04:59.300 align:middle line:84% People got to think about urban culture. 00:04:59.300 --> 00:05:01.400 align:middle line:84% They shouldn't leave out the Brown part. 00:05:01.400 --> 00:05:03.170 align:middle line:90% I totally honor the Black. 00:05:03.170 --> 00:05:05.510 align:middle line:84% It couldn't be urban culture for whatever-- 00:05:05.510 --> 00:05:08.720 align:middle line:84% Black culture, Black music, Black rhythms, and Black 00:05:08.720 --> 00:05:09.530 align:middle line:90% voices. 00:05:09.530 --> 00:05:12.370 align:middle line:84% But you can't leave the Brown part out. 00:05:12.370 --> 00:05:12.870 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:05:12.870 --> 00:05:13.950 align:middle line:90% Thank you for that. 00:05:13.950 --> 00:05:16.170 align:middle line:90% Thank you. 00:05:16.170 --> 00:05:18.820 align:middle line:84% I now have a question for everyone. 00:05:18.820 --> 00:05:21.740 align:middle line:84% I'm going to just unmute you all. 00:05:21.740 --> 00:05:24.500 align:middle line:90% 00:05:24.500 --> 00:05:28.340 align:middle line:84% I now have a question for everybody in the group. 00:05:28.340 --> 00:05:30.650 align:middle line:84% And you can go ahead and unmute yourself, 00:05:30.650 --> 00:05:34.110 align:middle line:84% for some reason, that did not do it. 00:05:34.110 --> 00:05:37.830 align:middle line:84% So it's kind of a large question, 00:05:37.830 --> 00:05:44.470 align:middle line:84% but much of world history that we're taught, or that we see, 00:05:44.470 --> 00:05:51.990 align:middle line:84% is about who belongs and who doesn't, who decides and how. 00:05:51.990 --> 00:05:54.840 align:middle line:84% Can poetry be an art that teaches us 00:05:54.840 --> 00:05:58.740 align:middle line:84% how we belong to each other, to community, to places, 00:05:58.740 --> 00:06:00.450 align:middle line:90% and to our own histories? 00:06:00.450 --> 00:06:03.080 align:middle line:90% 00:06:03.080 --> 00:06:04.190 align:middle line:90% What does that mean? 00:06:04.190 --> 00:06:09.880 align:middle line:90% 00:06:09.880 --> 00:06:11.050 align:middle line:90% Well, I think I'm-- 00:06:11.050 --> 00:06:11.550 align:middle line:90% Sorry. 00:06:11.550 --> 00:06:12.425 align:middle line:90% I'm going to jump in. 00:06:12.425 --> 00:06:14.970 align:middle line:90% No, go ahead, Luivette. 00:06:14.970 --> 00:06:18.000 align:middle line:84% Just based upon, even, this reading, 00:06:18.000 --> 00:06:20.970 align:middle line:84% there was a sense of belonging and commonality 00:06:20.970 --> 00:06:22.380 align:middle line:90% in many of our poems. 00:06:22.380 --> 00:06:23.680 align:middle line:90% And we didn't plan it. 00:06:23.680 --> 00:06:25.350 align:middle line:84% It's not like we got together before this whole meeting 00:06:25.350 --> 00:06:26.390 align:middle line:84% and say, hey, I'm going to read this. 00:06:26.390 --> 00:06:27.515 align:middle line:90% What are you going to read? 00:06:27.515 --> 00:06:30.580 align:middle line:84% And it was not a-- it wasn't an act or anything. 00:06:30.580 --> 00:06:33.990 align:middle line:84% And so it wasn't premeditated, but it was just-- 00:06:33.990 --> 00:06:37.140 align:middle line:84% even going from the top, Peter, and listening 00:06:37.140 --> 00:06:40.320 align:middle line:84% to his poems, which I've heard many times beforehand, 00:06:40.320 --> 00:06:41.820 align:middle line:90% but revisiting them again. 00:06:41.820 --> 00:06:43.638 align:middle line:84% And him speaking about the erotic. 00:06:43.638 --> 00:06:45.180 align:middle line:84% And in my head, I was like, I already 00:06:45.180 --> 00:06:47.700 align:middle line:84% have poems like that going on right now. 00:06:47.700 --> 00:06:48.930 align:middle line:90% I was already planning that. 00:06:48.930 --> 00:06:51.390 align:middle line:84% And then listening to Michael's poems, 00:06:51.390 --> 00:06:54.150 align:middle line:84% and especially, the last one he read. 00:06:54.150 --> 00:06:56.700 align:middle line:84% It's like-- And then, listening to Luis's-- 00:06:56.700 --> 00:06:59.340 align:middle line:90% we all belong to each other. 00:06:59.340 --> 00:07:02.760 align:middle line:84% If anything, our poems, really, to me at least, 00:07:02.760 --> 00:07:04.770 align:middle line:84% connect me with everyone in this room. 00:07:04.770 --> 00:07:06.900 align:middle line:84% And any time I'm in a poetry space, 00:07:06.900 --> 00:07:09.930 align:middle line:84% I tend to walk away with connectivity. 00:07:09.930 --> 00:07:13.290 align:middle line:84% And in a positionality of, we are all coming from-- 00:07:13.290 --> 00:07:15.240 align:middle line:84% granted, we could be different, coming 00:07:15.240 --> 00:07:18.420 align:middle line:84% from different generations and geographic locations. 00:07:18.420 --> 00:07:22.020 align:middle line:84% But there is a connectivity that poetry provides. 00:07:22.020 --> 00:07:26.400 align:middle line:84% And especially from Black and Brown communities. 00:07:26.400 --> 00:07:29.304 align:middle line:90% 00:07:29.304 --> 00:07:32.160 align:middle line:84% For good or for bad, we do, unfortunately, 00:07:32.160 --> 00:07:34.560 align:middle line:84% sometimes have traumatic experiences 00:07:34.560 --> 00:07:39.390 align:middle line:84% that kind of interweave our stories together 00:07:39.390 --> 00:07:40.690 align:middle line:90% in this beautiful way. 00:07:40.690 --> 00:07:43.260 align:middle line:84% So I definitely agree with that statement 00:07:43.260 --> 00:07:47.670 align:middle line:84% that poetry can definitely create a sense of belonging. 00:07:47.670 --> 00:07:52.460 align:middle line:90% 00:07:52.460 --> 00:07:59.480 align:middle line:84% I mean poetry, or any other art form in and of itself, 00:07:59.480 --> 00:08:01.320 align:middle line:84% doesn't do anything, in my opinion. 00:08:01.320 --> 00:08:02.810 align:middle line:90% But it can. 00:08:02.810 --> 00:08:05.270 align:middle line:84% I think the consciousness behind it, 00:08:05.270 --> 00:08:09.980 align:middle line:84% or the cultural imperatives behind it 00:08:09.980 --> 00:08:18.210 align:middle line:84% are what govern the outcomes of the sense of belonging. 00:08:18.210 --> 00:08:22.370 align:middle line:84% I mean, I've been, for a long time, a volunteer. 00:08:22.370 --> 00:08:29.990 align:middle line:84% I'm like an OG among the OGs at the world stage in Los Angeles. 00:08:29.990 --> 00:08:33.470 align:middle line:84% But even there, I always remember that in the community, 00:08:33.470 --> 00:08:36.679 align:middle line:84% there's a vitality that it's not-- 00:08:36.679 --> 00:08:40.039 align:middle line:90% 00:08:40.039 --> 00:08:43.830 align:middle line:84% I guess I'm saying that belonging is not 00:08:43.830 --> 00:08:45.390 align:middle line:90% one note, so to speak. 00:08:45.390 --> 00:08:48.090 align:middle line:90% 00:08:48.090 --> 00:08:51.690 align:middle line:84% True belonging allows for individuality 00:08:51.690 --> 00:08:53.980 align:middle line:90% within the community. 00:08:53.980 --> 00:08:58.740 align:middle line:84% And I remember some of the moments when we-- 00:08:58.740 --> 00:09:01.470 align:middle line:84% I think I got started at the stage in '89, no, 00:09:01.470 --> 00:09:06.240 align:middle line:90% sorry, '90, '91, '92. 00:09:06.240 --> 00:09:10.140 align:middle line:84% And I remember just listening to all the different work. 00:09:10.140 --> 00:09:13.500 align:middle line:84% And I had just come from the East Coast, Washington DC, 00:09:13.500 --> 00:09:15.400 align:middle line:90% my hometown at the time. 00:09:15.400 --> 00:09:21.490 align:middle line:84% And I remember just realizing the variety of voices, 00:09:21.490 --> 00:09:26.080 align:middle line:84% all of it vital, but the distinctions of the voice. 00:09:26.080 --> 00:09:28.380 align:middle line:84% And I think that's what's important to me, 00:09:28.380 --> 00:09:31.800 align:middle line:84% particularly at this age in my life, this season in my life, 00:09:31.800 --> 00:09:40.980 align:middle line:84% is I'm really listening for the virtuosity that touches me, 00:09:40.980 --> 00:09:47.070 align:middle line:84% reminds me that we are all in a family, or a community, 00:09:47.070 --> 00:09:50.880 align:middle line:84% or we're all human beings fundamentally. 00:09:50.880 --> 00:09:55.170 align:middle line:84% So I am always interested in community and belonging, 00:09:55.170 --> 00:09:59.040 align:middle line:84% but I think it has to be an inspirational enrollment, so 00:09:59.040 --> 00:10:06.810 align:middle line:84% to speak, so that people aren't in and of themselves made 00:10:06.810 --> 00:10:10.260 align:middle line:90% into generic beings. 00:10:10.260 --> 00:10:13.440 align:middle line:84% Because if you're made generic, or if your work is generic, 00:10:13.440 --> 00:10:16.860 align:middle line:90% for that matter, frankly. 00:10:16.860 --> 00:10:18.540 align:middle line:84% Frankly, I don't want to be in a-- 00:10:18.540 --> 00:10:21.360 align:middle line:84% I don't want to belong in a generic community. 00:10:21.360 --> 00:10:23.760 align:middle line:84% I want to belong in a community that's vital 00:10:23.760 --> 00:10:30.480 align:middle line:84% and where people are bringing their whole selves so that we 00:10:30.480 --> 00:10:33.030 align:middle line:84% can really, really engage with each other, 00:10:33.030 --> 00:10:36.880 align:middle line:84% and learn from each other, and teach each other. 00:10:36.880 --> 00:10:41.140 align:middle line:84% So, for me, that's what poetry at its best can do. 00:10:41.140 --> 00:10:42.080 align:middle line:90% Thank you for that. 00:10:42.080 --> 00:10:43.830 align:middle line:84% I think that's a really interesting point. 00:10:43.830 --> 00:10:47.070 align:middle line:84% And this is the part of the panel 00:10:47.070 --> 00:10:50.345 align:middle line:84% that I love is that we can take the same question 00:10:50.345 --> 00:10:51.720 align:middle line:84% and people have different points. 00:10:51.720 --> 00:10:53.970 align:middle line:84% And, to your point, Peter, one of the things 00:10:53.970 --> 00:10:56.130 align:middle line:90% is about community-- 00:10:56.130 --> 00:11:03.420 align:middle line:84% It can both be uplifting, but it can also bind in worst cases. 00:11:03.420 --> 00:11:06.300 align:middle line:84% Keep people bound to this idea of what it means 00:11:06.300 --> 00:11:08.160 align:middle line:90% to be part of that community. 00:11:08.160 --> 00:11:11.600 align:middle line:90% That's a really amazing point. 00:11:11.600 --> 00:11:15.260 align:middle line:84% Yeah, I think that the thing about your question 00:11:15.260 --> 00:11:19.310 align:middle line:84% is that it's rooted in social relationships. 00:11:19.310 --> 00:11:23.840 align:middle line:84% It's how we belong to each other, to community, 00:11:23.840 --> 00:11:25.680 align:middle line:90% and our histories. 00:11:25.680 --> 00:11:28.700 align:middle line:84% And so the impact of Arts really does 00:11:28.700 --> 00:11:31.640 align:middle line:84% depend on the social relationships 00:11:31.640 --> 00:11:33.200 align:middle line:90% once it's created. 00:11:33.200 --> 00:11:36.650 align:middle line:84% As an individual artist, I agonize over the words. 00:11:36.650 --> 00:11:40.280 align:middle line:84% You know, I spend most of my creative time reworking 00:11:40.280 --> 00:11:41.240 align:middle line:90% what I've written. 00:11:41.240 --> 00:11:45.770 align:middle line:84% And as difficult as that creative process is, 00:11:45.770 --> 00:11:48.560 align:middle line:84% it's far more difficult distributing 00:11:48.560 --> 00:11:51.510 align:middle line:90% the art that emerges out of it. 00:11:51.510 --> 00:11:54.770 align:middle line:84% The planning, the cultivating, the harvesting, 00:11:54.770 --> 00:11:57.390 align:middle line:84% the sharing of what's been created. 00:11:57.390 --> 00:12:03.650 align:middle line:84% And so for our art to reach beyond our individual selves, 00:12:03.650 --> 00:12:06.770 align:middle line:84% beyond our own nourishment, it has 00:12:06.770 --> 00:12:08.490 align:middle line:90% to be experienced by others. 00:12:08.490 --> 00:12:12.020 align:middle line:84% I totally agree with everything that's been said so far. 00:12:12.020 --> 00:12:15.860 align:middle line:84% And so, to me that interaction of art in society 00:12:15.860 --> 00:12:18.110 align:middle line:84% creates the potential for change. 00:12:18.110 --> 00:12:20.060 align:middle line:90% Not all art has to do that. 00:12:20.060 --> 00:12:23.570 align:middle line:84% Not all art has to engage in societal change. 00:12:23.570 --> 00:12:26.480 align:middle line:84% The personal transformation is just 00:12:26.480 --> 00:12:29.060 align:middle line:84% as critical as a social transformation. 00:12:29.060 --> 00:12:30.530 align:middle line:84% And, in fact, I don't think there 00:12:30.530 --> 00:12:33.470 align:middle line:84% can be social transformation unless there's 00:12:33.470 --> 00:12:35.480 align:middle line:90% personal transformation. 00:12:35.480 --> 00:12:38.030 align:middle line:84% I mean, we can really see that in our country today. 00:12:38.030 --> 00:12:41.000 align:middle line:84% There is a lot of personal transformation 00:12:41.000 --> 00:12:43.115 align:middle line:84% that is going to be needed for just 00:12:43.115 --> 00:12:46.170 align:middle line:84% the level of social transformation that we need. 00:12:46.170 --> 00:12:49.550 align:middle line:84% And, as an artist, I choose to pursue both the personal 00:12:49.550 --> 00:12:51.080 align:middle line:90% and the social. 00:12:51.080 --> 00:12:53.510 align:middle line:84% But I don't dictate that any other artist 00:12:53.510 --> 00:12:57.140 align:middle line:90% has to approach it that way. 00:12:57.140 --> 00:12:59.810 align:middle line:84% No, I think that's-- yeah, that's a really good marker 00:12:59.810 --> 00:13:02.960 align:middle line:84% and distinction between-- it starts with the self. 00:13:02.960 --> 00:13:04.760 align:middle line:84% And then you kind of move outward 00:13:04.760 --> 00:13:07.860 align:middle line:90% for certain individuals. 00:13:07.860 --> 00:13:08.360 align:middle line:90% Hey. 00:13:08.360 --> 00:13:09.670 align:middle line:90% May I add? 00:13:09.670 --> 00:13:10.170 align:middle line:90% Yeah, Peter. 00:13:10.170 --> 00:13:13.790 align:middle line:84% I'd like to say, I consider this stuff what I call, 00:13:13.790 --> 00:13:18.420 align:middle line:84% or what my core community would call grown folks work. 00:13:18.420 --> 00:13:22.590 align:middle line:84% So I really think it's important. 00:13:22.590 --> 00:13:27.660 align:middle line:84% I mean, listen, we clearly have communion. 00:13:27.660 --> 00:13:29.100 align:middle line:90% I'm just meeting Michael. 00:13:29.100 --> 00:13:31.360 align:middle line:84% I know some of your work with the Complex. 00:13:31.360 --> 00:13:34.910 align:middle line:84% But when you mention Ms. Brooks and stuff-- 00:13:34.910 --> 00:13:38.460 align:middle line:84% Ms. Brooks used to come to Baltimore in DC 00:13:38.460 --> 00:13:40.380 align:middle line:84% when I was there when I was a young poet. 00:13:40.380 --> 00:13:43.370 align:middle line:90% And just so generous. 00:13:43.370 --> 00:13:43.990 align:middle line:90% Yes. 00:13:43.990 --> 00:13:44.850 align:middle line:90% Word. 00:13:44.850 --> 00:13:54.030 align:middle line:84% But this notion of just grown, ethical, serious, you 00:13:54.030 --> 00:13:59.400 align:middle line:84% know, courageous communion and participation-- 00:13:59.400 --> 00:14:03.630 align:middle line:84% That's what guides me when I think about poetry 00:14:03.630 --> 00:14:04.740 align:middle line:90% and belonging. 00:14:04.740 --> 00:14:05.730 align:middle line:90% Community. 00:14:05.730 --> 00:14:12.600 align:middle line:84% I mean, when you read Luivette's bio, she's now the editor-- 00:14:12.600 --> 00:14:16.020 align:middle line:84% what is it, executive director or something, Luivette? 00:14:16.020 --> 00:14:19.240 align:middle line:84% The publication that you invited me to participate in. 00:14:19.240 --> 00:14:22.740 align:middle line:84% I mean, as soon as she got leadership, 00:14:22.740 --> 00:14:27.360 align:middle line:84% and I've watched her do work at Avenue 50 Studio in LA, 00:14:27.360 --> 00:14:31.230 align:middle line:84% she said, come on in, because that was her politics. 00:14:31.230 --> 00:14:34.110 align:middle line:84% You know, she didn't say come on in because I like you, 00:14:34.110 --> 00:14:35.050 align:middle line:90% or come on in. 00:14:35.050 --> 00:14:40.890 align:middle line:84% So I just think that this is about being grown ass people. 00:14:40.890 --> 00:14:43.630 align:middle line:84% And that includes, on a technical level, 00:14:43.630 --> 00:14:45.930 align:middle line:84% which is what we used to emphasize 00:14:45.930 --> 00:14:48.120 align:middle line:84% during the workshop at the stage, 00:14:48.120 --> 00:14:51.750 align:middle line:84% take the work seriously, not yourself, so 00:14:51.750 --> 00:14:57.390 align:middle line:84% that you are always honoring the best of a tradition. 00:14:57.390 --> 00:15:00.630 align:middle line:84% And if you look at that circle concept, 00:15:00.630 --> 00:15:03.600 align:middle line:84% when you get in the circle and you're the soloist, 00:15:03.600 --> 00:15:06.900 align:middle line:84% you only stay in there long as you can bring it. 00:15:06.900 --> 00:15:11.130 align:middle line:84% And then when you exhaust your creativity, or your virtuosity, 00:15:11.130 --> 00:15:14.220 align:middle line:84% you honor the belonging by getting your ass back 00:15:14.220 --> 00:15:17.670 align:middle line:84% in the circle and be ready to support somebody else 00:15:17.670 --> 00:15:21.410 align:middle line:84% while they're doing what they're supposed to do. 00:15:21.410 --> 00:15:23.330 align:middle line:84% Yeah, thank you for that additional-- 00:15:23.330 --> 00:15:24.725 align:middle line:90% Yeah, that's for sure. 00:15:24.725 --> 00:15:27.480 align:middle line:90% 00:15:27.480 --> 00:15:29.460 align:middle line:84% Some of you have answered this already 00:15:29.460 --> 00:15:31.830 align:middle line:84% in talking a little bit about your poems, 00:15:31.830 --> 00:15:35.320 align:middle line:90% but this is for the group. 00:15:35.320 --> 00:15:38.400 align:middle line:84% Can you share a little bit about your own relationship 00:15:38.400 --> 00:15:43.080 align:middle line:84% to the idea of creating belonging through the language? 00:15:43.080 --> 00:15:44.040 align:middle line:90% What is that? 00:15:44.040 --> 00:15:45.430 align:middle line:90% Does that resonate? 00:15:45.430 --> 00:15:47.220 align:middle line:90% Does that not resonate? 00:15:47.220 --> 00:15:49.230 align:middle line:84% Creating belonging through language. 00:15:49.230 --> 00:15:53.090 align:middle line:90% 00:15:53.090 --> 00:15:57.920 align:middle line:84% Let me just say, when you don't feel like you belong, 00:15:57.920 --> 00:16:01.210 align:middle line:84% you have to build a greater ground, 00:16:01.210 --> 00:16:03.970 align:middle line:84% because that narrow ground you're not going to belong. 00:16:03.970 --> 00:16:06.070 align:middle line:90% I never belonged in America. 00:16:06.070 --> 00:16:08.050 align:middle line:90% I don't care if I was born here. 00:16:08.050 --> 00:16:08.920 align:middle line:90% It doesn't matter. 00:16:08.920 --> 00:16:10.180 align:middle line:90% I never belonged. 00:16:10.180 --> 00:16:13.690 align:middle line:84% I never belonged in certain neighborhoods. 00:16:13.690 --> 00:16:15.880 align:middle line:84% I couldn't walk in certain neighborhoods. 00:16:15.880 --> 00:16:17.560 align:middle line:90% I couldn't be-- 00:16:17.560 --> 00:16:20.740 align:middle line:84% And then, even when I lived in my poor ass neighborhood 00:16:20.740 --> 00:16:23.590 align:middle line:84% in Las Lomas in South San Gabriel, which Diana knows 00:16:23.590 --> 00:16:26.020 align:middle line:84% about, I didn't feel like we belonged 00:16:26.020 --> 00:16:28.420 align:middle line:90% because we didn't own anything. 00:16:28.420 --> 00:16:30.020 align:middle line:90% It wasn't our land. 00:16:30.020 --> 00:16:33.610 align:middle line:84% It was just-- so you have to build a greater ground. 00:16:33.610 --> 00:16:36.580 align:middle line:84% To me, poetry, and art, creation-- 00:16:36.580 --> 00:16:39.280 align:middle line:84% it gives you a bigger ground where you feel like, hey, I 00:16:39.280 --> 00:16:41.200 align:middle line:90% can belong anywhere. 00:16:41.200 --> 00:16:44.320 align:middle line:84% I don't have to fall into the boundaries and the borders 00:16:44.320 --> 00:16:46.460 align:middle line:90% that other people have created. 00:16:46.460 --> 00:16:49.580 align:middle line:84% And so, therefore, you can feel like you can speak to anybody, 00:16:49.580 --> 00:16:50.650 align:middle line:90% go to any community. 00:16:50.650 --> 00:16:53.290 align:middle line:84% I remember, again, speaking of the Black and Brown, 00:16:53.290 --> 00:16:56.320 align:middle line:90% Amiri Baraka invited me to be-- 00:16:56.320 --> 00:17:00.310 align:middle line:84% And I heard at the time that I was the only non-Black person 00:17:00.310 --> 00:17:06.520 align:middle line:84% to read at the Black London Poetry Festival 00:17:06.520 --> 00:17:10.150 align:middle line:84% with West African Jamaican poets. 00:17:10.150 --> 00:17:13.069 align:middle line:84% And Amiri, he invited me to be there. 00:17:13.069 --> 00:17:13.630 align:middle line:90% I read. 00:17:13.630 --> 00:17:17.150 align:middle line:84% Nobody made a big deal about it, you know what I'm saying? 00:17:17.150 --> 00:17:18.310 align:middle line:90% It was fine. 00:17:18.310 --> 00:17:20.579 align:middle line:84% And I don't know if anybody else was invited 00:17:20.579 --> 00:17:21.790 align:middle line:90% that wasn't so-called Black. 00:17:21.790 --> 00:17:23.710 align:middle line:90% But I will read it any-- 00:17:23.710 --> 00:17:25.837 align:middle line:90% I was reading in Japan. 00:17:25.837 --> 00:17:27.670 align:middle line:84% I don't know Japanese, but it didn't matter. 00:17:27.670 --> 00:17:29.620 align:middle line:90% I'm there reading. 00:17:29.620 --> 00:17:31.630 align:middle line:90% The world opens up to you. 00:17:31.630 --> 00:17:32.620 align:middle line:90% The ground is bigger. 00:17:32.620 --> 00:17:34.063 align:middle line:84% And we have to create that ground. 00:17:34.063 --> 00:17:35.230 align:middle line:90% It isn't just going to come. 00:17:35.230 --> 00:17:36.460 align:middle line:90% You have to work at it. 00:17:36.460 --> 00:17:38.920 align:middle line:84% But that's what, I think, makes it possible for me 00:17:38.920 --> 00:17:40.840 align:middle line:90% to belong anywhere, any time. 00:17:40.840 --> 00:17:45.120 align:middle line:90% 00:17:45.120 --> 00:17:46.980 align:middle line:84% Yeah, one thing I've come to understand 00:17:46.980 --> 00:17:49.470 align:middle line:84% about this question of belonging that if you think 00:17:49.470 --> 00:17:55.710 align:middle line:84% of any movement today to improve our condition in this country, 00:17:55.710 --> 00:17:58.080 align:middle line:84% they're all about belonging-- people 00:17:58.080 --> 00:18:03.550 align:middle line:84% trying to be acknowledged and to belong. 00:18:03.550 --> 00:18:07.000 align:middle line:84% Two of my projects that are really about, 00:18:07.000 --> 00:18:11.190 align:middle line:84% and I've spoke to this earlier speaking of people, 00:18:11.190 --> 00:18:13.050 align:middle line:84% but, particularly, Black people being 00:18:13.050 --> 00:18:18.270 align:middle line:84% able to belong without fear of being executed 00:18:18.270 --> 00:18:21.930 align:middle line:84% by the police for driving, for sitting, for talking, 00:18:21.930 --> 00:18:25.650 align:middle line:84% for walking, for running, for sleeping, for just existing. 00:18:25.650 --> 00:18:30.450 align:middle line:84% In the anthology of poetry and protest that I edited, 00:18:30.450 --> 00:18:32.820 align:middle line:84% one of the things I talk about in there 00:18:32.820 --> 00:18:38.220 align:middle line:84% is about how the book can serve as a tool 00:18:38.220 --> 00:18:41.130 align:middle line:90% in a toolbox of many tools. 00:18:41.130 --> 00:18:44.220 align:middle line:84% And so, one of the things that I realized once the book was 00:18:44.220 --> 00:18:47.730 align:middle line:84% published by Norton, is that something 00:18:47.730 --> 00:18:49.650 align:middle line:84% I wish I had done that I didn't do 00:18:49.650 --> 00:18:55.132 align:middle line:84% was to actually include a tool book in the book. 00:18:55.132 --> 00:18:57.090 align:middle line:84% I mean, not one that you carry around with you, 00:18:57.090 --> 00:19:00.840 align:middle line:84% but a graphic tool book, tool kit, 00:19:00.840 --> 00:19:04.260 align:middle line:84% that could direct readers to like 00:19:04.260 --> 00:19:10.110 align:middle line:84% a digital extension of the book where artists and activists 00:19:10.110 --> 00:19:13.830 align:middle line:84% could upload their content on the theme of unjust police 00:19:13.830 --> 00:19:18.390 align:middle line:84% killings, where users could digitally access action 00:19:18.390 --> 00:19:22.530 align:middle line:84% steps for mass engagement, for connecting individuals 00:19:22.530 --> 00:19:25.680 align:middle line:84% to organizations, for connecting organizations 00:19:25.680 --> 00:19:27.570 align:middle line:84% to other organizations, to serving 00:19:27.570 --> 00:19:32.580 align:middle line:84% as a portal that includes collective legal legislative 00:19:32.580 --> 00:19:36.180 align:middle line:84% and creative ways of ending those killings, 00:19:36.180 --> 00:19:38.380 align:middle line:84% of fighting against those killings. 00:19:38.380 --> 00:19:42.540 align:middle line:84% So I'm trying to create that digital extension now. 00:19:42.540 --> 00:19:46.770 align:middle line:84% But when I think about belonging, 00:19:46.770 --> 00:19:49.470 align:middle line:84% I try to think of tools that we can 00:19:49.470 --> 00:19:54.270 align:middle line:84% use to struggle for what gets called "belongingness." 00:19:54.270 --> 00:19:57.480 align:middle line:84% And, as far as my own work is concerned, 00:19:57.480 --> 00:19:59.940 align:middle line:90% that's one of the goals I have. 00:19:59.940 --> 00:20:02.853 align:middle line:84% And just on the poem, "What Not To Do." 00:20:02.853 --> 00:20:04.770 align:middle line:84% I have a similar thing where want to take that 00:20:04.770 --> 00:20:06.780 align:middle line:90% to the next stage as well. 00:20:06.780 --> 00:20:10.410 align:middle line:84% That these are works that are unfinished in a way. 00:20:10.410 --> 00:20:11.820 align:middle line:84% When they get to the point that I 00:20:11.820 --> 00:20:13.683 align:middle line:84% feel they need to be out in the world, 00:20:13.683 --> 00:20:14.850 align:middle line:90% I put them out in the world. 00:20:14.850 --> 00:20:18.310 align:middle line:84% But I have the intention of doing something else with them. 00:20:18.310 --> 00:20:20.310 align:middle line:84% So with that poem, for instance, one 00:20:20.310 --> 00:20:22.110 align:middle line:84% of the ways it's already changed, 00:20:22.110 --> 00:20:24.690 align:middle line:84% it's going out to editors who are 00:20:24.690 --> 00:20:26.550 align:middle line:84% being told that this poem has already 00:20:26.550 --> 00:20:27.750 align:middle line:90% been published elsewhere. 00:20:27.750 --> 00:20:30.960 align:middle line:84% But because it's a serial poem and is being revised, 00:20:30.960 --> 00:20:34.560 align:middle line:84% editors are actually accepting publishing it, 00:20:34.560 --> 00:20:36.310 align:middle line:84% even though it's been published elsewhere. 00:20:36.310 --> 00:20:38.370 align:middle line:84% So that's not typically the way it happens. 00:20:38.370 --> 00:20:43.080 align:middle line:84% And lastly, that I want to do a digital version of that poem. 00:20:43.080 --> 00:20:46.950 align:middle line:84% I want a site where the updates that I'm constantly making 00:20:46.950 --> 00:20:49.260 align:middle line:90% to it are actually online. 00:20:49.260 --> 00:20:53.820 align:middle line:84% And that the poem is not only being changed, 00:20:53.820 --> 00:20:58.000 align:middle line:84% but that is being incorporated with images and art 00:20:58.000 --> 00:21:01.210 align:middle line:90% on the issue of police killings. 00:21:01.210 --> 00:21:08.130 align:middle line:84% So, for me, this is a way of having actual tools to struggle 00:21:08.130 --> 00:21:10.770 align:middle line:90% for belonging. 00:21:10.770 --> 00:21:11.300 align:middle line:90% Thank you. 00:21:11.300 --> 00:21:14.750 align:middle line:90% 00:21:14.750 --> 00:21:18.560 align:middle line:84% I've been thinking a lot about the acquisition of language 00:21:18.560 --> 00:21:20.450 align:middle line:90% in different languages. 00:21:20.450 --> 00:21:25.270 align:middle line:84% Sometimes we pick up different languages when we're kids. 00:21:25.270 --> 00:21:29.360 align:middle line:84% If each of you can just share a little bit about 00:21:29.360 --> 00:21:30.560 align:middle line:90% who taught you to read? 00:21:30.560 --> 00:21:32.000 align:middle line:90% If you can. 00:21:32.000 --> 00:21:33.470 align:middle line:90% What is your memory of that? 00:21:33.470 --> 00:21:38.010 align:middle line:90% 00:21:38.010 --> 00:21:41.280 align:middle line:84% For me, I mentioned her earlier in when I was reading. 00:21:41.280 --> 00:21:44.400 align:middle line:90% It was my abuela. 00:21:44.400 --> 00:21:46.020 align:middle line:84% Who, again, I want to shout her out. 00:21:46.020 --> 00:21:51.960 align:middle line:84% She's 91, and voted, and was all about her selfie 00:21:51.960 --> 00:21:54.780 align:middle line:90% with her sticker and her pen. 00:21:54.780 --> 00:22:01.410 align:middle line:84% And, Maria Virginia Garcia Lozada, 00:22:01.410 --> 00:22:05.190 align:middle line:84% who, again, just remains to be one of my inspirations 00:22:05.190 --> 00:22:07.360 align:middle line:90% to this day. 00:22:07.360 --> 00:22:10.650 align:middle line:84% It was her tenacity and her initiative 00:22:10.650 --> 00:22:13.620 align:middle line:84% to matriculate me when I got to the States, 00:22:13.620 --> 00:22:15.270 align:middle line:84% even though my mother wasn't here yet. 00:22:15.270 --> 00:22:16.560 align:middle line:90% She was still on the island. 00:22:16.560 --> 00:22:19.290 align:middle line:84% She was like, no, we're going to do this. 00:22:19.290 --> 00:22:20.910 align:middle line:84% And again, my grandmother was the one 00:22:20.910 --> 00:22:23.730 align:middle line:84% that convinced my principal at the time 00:22:23.730 --> 00:22:25.290 align:middle line:84% to accept me in kindergarten, even 00:22:25.290 --> 00:22:28.110 align:middle line:90% though I didn't speak English. 00:22:28.110 --> 00:22:30.570 align:middle line:84% Sister Catherine did not want to accept me because I 00:22:30.570 --> 00:22:32.010 align:middle line:90% didn't speak the language. 00:22:32.010 --> 00:22:35.820 align:middle line:84% But it was my grandmother, in her limited English, politicked 00:22:35.820 --> 00:22:38.520 align:middle line:90% for me and said, she's smart. 00:22:38.520 --> 00:22:39.570 align:middle line:90% And I was only four too. 00:22:39.570 --> 00:22:41.070 align:middle line:84% And on top of that, I was only four. 00:22:41.070 --> 00:22:42.810 align:middle line:84% So I wasn't five like everybody else. 00:22:42.810 --> 00:22:46.890 align:middle line:84% So Maria said, no, no, no, she's smart. 00:22:46.890 --> 00:22:48.360 align:middle line:90% You know, she knows her colors. 00:22:48.360 --> 00:22:50.430 align:middle line:90% She knows her numbers. 00:22:50.430 --> 00:22:51.480 align:middle line:90% She knows her alphabet. 00:22:51.480 --> 00:22:52.897 align:middle line:84% It's just in a different language. 00:22:52.897 --> 00:22:54.270 align:middle line:90% But she knows all of this. 00:22:54.270 --> 00:22:56.020 align:middle line:90% Give her a shot. 00:22:56.020 --> 00:23:00.030 align:middle line:84% And so, my grandma, she won that argument with Sister Catherine. 00:23:00.030 --> 00:23:02.965 align:middle line:84% And here I was in the middle of kindergarten 00:23:02.965 --> 00:23:03.840 align:middle line:90% with a bunch of kids. 00:23:03.840 --> 00:23:05.007 align:middle line:90% I didn't speak the language. 00:23:05.007 --> 00:23:07.390 align:middle line:84% But she paid for my tuition at the time, 00:23:07.390 --> 00:23:10.080 align:middle line:90% which was $75 a month. 00:23:10.080 --> 00:23:11.650 align:middle line:90% And I'll never forget that. 00:23:11.650 --> 00:23:15.810 align:middle line:84% And so, she was the one that really, in my memory bank, 00:23:15.810 --> 00:23:17.940 align:middle line:84% was the one that pushed me to read in English 00:23:17.940 --> 00:23:19.380 align:middle line:90% and in Spanish like I said. 00:23:19.380 --> 00:23:22.110 align:middle line:84% When I started to forget my Spanish, 00:23:22.110 --> 00:23:25.150 align:middle line:84% she would buy me children's books in Spanish. 00:23:25.150 --> 00:23:27.870 align:middle line:84% And when we would go to Puerto Rico every summer. 00:23:27.870 --> 00:23:29.880 align:middle line:90% We did this summer trip. 00:23:29.880 --> 00:23:31.690 align:middle line:84% We would be there for two or three months. 00:23:31.690 --> 00:23:37.770 align:middle line:84% And so, my grandmother, abuela, was definitely, has been-- 00:23:37.770 --> 00:23:41.040 align:middle line:84% when I think about reading, and writing, and being a writer, 00:23:41.040 --> 00:23:44.608 align:middle line:84% I think of this woman who didn't go to college, 00:23:44.608 --> 00:23:46.650 align:middle line:84% but went to secondary school, because that's what 00:23:46.650 --> 00:23:48.000 align:middle line:90% they called it at the time. 00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:53.610 align:middle line:84% And was the most educated of her four siblings. 00:23:53.610 --> 00:23:55.650 align:middle line:90% Yeah, I think of her fondly. 00:23:55.650 --> 00:23:59.250 align:middle line:84% And I'm extremely grateful for her. 00:23:59.250 --> 00:24:01.230 align:middle line:90% Beautiful. 00:24:01.230 --> 00:24:02.400 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:24:02.400 --> 00:24:06.090 align:middle line:84% My mother taught me how to read, I think. 00:24:06.090 --> 00:24:07.360 align:middle line:90% Her name was June Harris. 00:24:07.360 --> 00:24:11.010 align:middle line:90% She was a secretary too. 00:24:11.010 --> 00:24:13.890 align:middle line:84% But my first Spanish teacher was an African-American woman 00:24:13.890 --> 00:24:17.850 align:middle line:84% named Ms. Evans in the third grade in DC. 00:24:17.850 --> 00:24:22.210 align:middle line:84% The problem was DC was so stratified. 00:24:22.210 --> 00:24:24.030 align:middle line:84% It was just basically Black folks. 00:24:24.030 --> 00:24:29.400 align:middle line:84% And then the few folks who spoke Spanish were more diplomats. 00:24:29.400 --> 00:24:31.870 align:middle line:90% And I never saw those folks. 00:24:31.870 --> 00:24:34.565 align:middle line:84% You know what I mean if you lived in that world. 00:24:34.565 --> 00:24:35.940 align:middle line:84% But I think that it's interesting 00:24:35.940 --> 00:24:39.180 align:middle line:84% as I study like brain research and whatnot. 00:24:39.180 --> 00:24:41.835 align:middle line:84% I mean, of course, our country is so one note. 00:24:41.835 --> 00:24:44.850 align:middle line:84% We're the only country where folk literally 00:24:44.850 --> 00:24:48.060 align:middle line:84% think it's like they're geniuses because they only 00:24:48.060 --> 00:24:49.080 align:middle line:90% speak one language. 00:24:49.080 --> 00:24:51.840 align:middle line:90% How ridiculous. 00:24:51.840 --> 00:24:54.990 align:middle line:84% And they're all colonial languages anyway. 00:24:54.990 --> 00:24:58.350 align:middle line:84% But I do think that the thing for me-- 00:24:58.350 --> 00:25:00.450 align:middle line:90% And this is why I'm happy. 00:25:00.450 --> 00:25:03.750 align:middle line:84% And, Luivette, I think I knew that Edward was also 00:25:03.750 --> 00:25:06.850 align:middle line:84% publishing some work that you have coming up. 00:25:06.850 --> 00:25:10.380 align:middle line:84% But this book that Edward at the FlowerSong Press 00:25:10.380 --> 00:25:12.960 align:middle line:84% is going to publish, I always wanted it 00:25:12.960 --> 00:25:15.690 align:middle line:84% in Spanish and in English, English and in Spanish. 00:25:15.690 --> 00:25:20.190 align:middle line:84% And I modeled it after the Neruda book, "Twenty Love Poems 00:25:20.190 --> 00:25:22.170 align:middle line:90% and a Song Of Despair". 00:25:22.170 --> 00:25:24.360 align:middle line:84% And I tried, and tried, and tried, 00:25:24.360 --> 00:25:27.930 align:middle line:84% and finally, Francisco and I, who I've 00:25:27.930 --> 00:25:29.820 align:middle line:90% known now for over 10 years. 00:25:29.820 --> 00:25:32.610 align:middle line:84% But I forgot, Francisco is from Chile, 00:25:32.610 --> 00:25:36.750 align:middle line:84% and is a very conscious and conscientious poet 00:25:36.750 --> 00:25:38.760 align:middle line:90% and artist himself. 00:25:38.760 --> 00:25:43.230 align:middle line:84% And so we had just a marvelous time on the phone 00:25:43.230 --> 00:25:44.820 align:middle line:90% as he read back to me. 00:25:44.820 --> 00:25:50.790 align:middle line:84% And he was really, really doing fine tuning. 00:25:50.790 --> 00:25:54.892 align:middle line:84% He'd say, well, in Chile we say this word. 00:25:54.892 --> 00:25:56.850 align:middle line:84% Sort of what you were saying earlier, Luivette. 00:25:56.850 --> 00:26:02.730 align:middle line:84% But if you come through the prism of Mexican-Spanish, 00:26:02.730 --> 00:26:06.130 align:middle line:84% or Mexican-American, or Chicano Spanish, it's this. 00:26:06.130 --> 00:26:07.890 align:middle line:84% So I kept pushing saying, well, look, 00:26:07.890 --> 00:26:11.610 align:middle line:84% bro, you go with what's Chilean, because that 00:26:11.610 --> 00:26:14.280 align:middle line:84% was the original reason for trying 00:26:14.280 --> 00:26:18.670 align:middle line:84% to do these love and erotic poems and whatnot. 00:26:18.670 --> 00:26:22.470 align:middle line:84% So I've learned-- one more thing I love to say is, 00:26:22.470 --> 00:26:25.710 align:middle line:84% one thing that I've loved about living in Los Angeles 00:26:25.710 --> 00:26:30.180 align:middle line:84% and getting to know people like Gloria Álvarez, and Ms. 00:26:30.180 --> 00:26:32.430 align:middle line:90% Esparza, and the Esparza family. 00:26:32.430 --> 00:26:36.510 align:middle line:84% And, of course, Luis and I have known each other since 1980, 00:26:36.510 --> 00:26:39.390 align:middle line:84% is how, if you're not going to really do 00:26:39.390 --> 00:26:43.000 align:middle line:84% the work, as I said earlier, then shut up and listen. 00:26:43.000 --> 00:26:47.910 align:middle line:84% And so I'll go to a reading where I know most of the poets 00:26:47.910 --> 00:26:49.830 align:middle line:90% are going to speak in Spanish. 00:26:49.830 --> 00:26:51.600 align:middle line:90% And I just turn myself off. 00:26:51.600 --> 00:26:53.010 align:middle line:90% Turn my ego off. 00:26:53.010 --> 00:26:57.750 align:middle line:84% And I don't necessarily know everything that they're saying, 00:26:57.750 --> 00:26:59.490 align:middle line:90% but I embrace the sound. 00:26:59.490 --> 00:27:03.480 align:middle line:84% And I embrace the power of the voice. 00:27:03.480 --> 00:27:05.082 align:middle line:90% And even back-- 00:27:05.082 --> 00:27:06.540 align:middle line:84% Luis, I don't know if you remember. 00:27:06.540 --> 00:27:10.740 align:middle line:84% This even back when I had this radio show on KPFK many years 00:27:10.740 --> 00:27:14.790 align:middle line:84% ago, I would always brief the upcoming guests 00:27:14.790 --> 00:27:18.300 align:middle line:84% by saying, among other things, and you 00:27:18.300 --> 00:27:21.030 align:middle line:84% are free to read in whatever languages you want 00:27:21.030 --> 00:27:23.830 align:middle line:90% to read in while you hear it. 00:27:23.830 --> 00:27:26.490 align:middle line:84% So if you hear some music that I'm playing, 00:27:26.490 --> 00:27:28.530 align:middle line:84% and all of a sudden, you want to move in and out 00:27:28.530 --> 00:27:31.800 align:middle line:84% of English, and Spanish, or Armenian, or whatever, 00:27:31.800 --> 00:27:34.950 align:middle line:84% or you just want to go cold sounds, I don't care. 00:27:34.950 --> 00:27:39.060 align:middle line:84% Just do the work that you feel honors 00:27:39.060 --> 00:27:40.980 align:middle line:84% the poem or honors the thing that 00:27:40.980 --> 00:27:43.990 align:middle line:90% inspired you to begin the poem. 00:27:43.990 --> 00:27:46.590 align:middle line:84% So let me just add to that because I was on his show. 00:27:46.590 --> 00:27:48.720 align:middle line:84% But one of the things I noticed about language 00:27:48.720 --> 00:27:53.100 align:middle line:84% is that you may not even have to understand the words to get 00:27:53.100 --> 00:27:55.260 align:middle line:90% the rhythm, to get the poetry. 00:27:55.260 --> 00:27:57.930 align:middle line:90% I've heard Russian poets read. 00:27:57.930 --> 00:27:58.740 align:middle line:90% I'm there. 00:27:58.740 --> 00:28:00.210 align:middle line:90% I'm even falling in tears. 00:28:00.210 --> 00:28:00.990 align:middle line:90% I don't know why. 00:28:00.990 --> 00:28:02.220 align:middle line:90% It's just the way they move. 00:28:02.220 --> 00:28:03.450 align:middle line:90% Or Japanese poets. 00:28:03.450 --> 00:28:06.090 align:middle line:84% I don't know Japanese, but I've got them in stage, 00:28:06.090 --> 00:28:07.630 align:middle line:84% and they're reading, and I'm there. 00:28:07.630 --> 00:28:11.610 align:middle line:84% So I think language has also got another ultra-dimensional 00:28:11.610 --> 00:28:14.520 align:middle line:84% aspect to it that it's important for people to get. 00:28:14.520 --> 00:28:19.860 align:middle line:84% Plus Spanish and English are colonial languages to me, 00:28:19.860 --> 00:28:21.310 align:middle line:90% not that I don't love them. 00:28:21.310 --> 00:28:22.830 align:middle line:90% I speak Spanish and English. 00:28:22.830 --> 00:28:24.900 align:middle line:84% And I want to dominate those languages. 00:28:24.900 --> 00:28:27.810 align:middle line:84% But it's obviously got this history. 00:28:27.810 --> 00:28:30.510 align:middle line:84% And I'm learning Indigenous languages. 00:28:30.510 --> 00:28:31.560 align:middle line:90% I'm learning Nahuatl. 00:28:31.560 --> 00:28:33.630 align:middle line:90% I know some Nahuatl words now. 00:28:33.630 --> 00:28:35.490 align:middle line:84% I went when I was with the Tarahumara. 00:28:35.490 --> 00:28:37.800 align:middle line:84% I learned some of their words, and the greeting 00:28:37.800 --> 00:28:39.270 align:middle line:90% they give which is "kwira va." 00:28:39.270 --> 00:28:40.590 align:middle line:90% I say it all the time. 00:28:40.590 --> 00:28:41.423 align:middle line:90% It means we are one. 00:28:41.423 --> 00:28:43.048 align:middle line:84% That's what they greet each other with. 00:28:43.048 --> 00:28:43.800 align:middle line:90% We are one. 00:28:43.800 --> 00:28:45.870 align:middle line:90% Somos uno, kwira va. 00:28:45.870 --> 00:28:50.430 align:middle line:84% So I think that it's good to think of language and more 00:28:50.430 --> 00:28:54.240 align:middle line:84% languages, and learn the power of language 00:28:54.240 --> 00:28:57.735 align:middle line:84% even beyond the actual understanding of the words. 00:28:57.735 --> 00:29:00.380 align:middle line:90% 00:29:00.380 --> 00:29:04.760 align:middle line:84% Yeah, that, what Luis says about using those languages makes 00:29:04.760 --> 00:29:08.240 align:middle line:84% me think back to that quote that I used from Adrienne Rich 00:29:08.240 --> 00:29:10.790 align:middle line:84% that, "This is the oppressor's language 00:29:10.790 --> 00:29:14.930 align:middle line:90% yet I need it to talk to you." 00:29:14.930 --> 00:29:16.700 align:middle line:84% I just want to say about my own work, 00:29:16.700 --> 00:29:20.900 align:middle line:84% this question was kind of very difficult for me 00:29:20.900 --> 00:29:26.910 align:middle line:84% because, first of all, I have an awful memory, or, at best, 00:29:26.910 --> 00:29:28.760 align:middle line:90% a highly selective memory. 00:29:28.760 --> 00:29:33.260 align:middle line:84% So I don't even recall a single children's book 00:29:33.260 --> 00:29:35.210 align:middle line:90% from my childhood. 00:29:35.210 --> 00:29:38.300 align:middle line:84% I have photographs of myself in kindergarten 00:29:38.300 --> 00:29:41.090 align:middle line:84% in the first grade in Bayview-Hunter's Point in San 00:29:41.090 --> 00:29:44.270 align:middle line:84% Francisco, but I have no memory of what 00:29:44.270 --> 00:29:45.440 align:middle line:90% happened in that classroom. 00:29:45.440 --> 00:29:48.770 align:middle line:84% And I must have learned the alphabet there. 00:29:48.770 --> 00:29:55.010 align:middle line:84% My earliest book-related memory is pasting blank paper 00:29:55.010 --> 00:30:00.800 align:middle line:84% over the pages of Reader Digest articles to create my own book. 00:30:00.800 --> 00:30:07.310 align:middle line:84% So I had the desire for a book early in life. 00:30:07.310 --> 00:30:11.000 align:middle line:84% And after reading, I can say with certainty, 00:30:11.000 --> 00:30:17.030 align:middle line:84% that the tag team teachers were the Bible and comic books. 00:30:17.030 --> 00:30:21.350 align:middle line:84% And there weren't very many books in our home, 00:30:21.350 --> 00:30:23.090 align:middle line:84% but my mother did make it a point 00:30:23.090 --> 00:30:25.010 align:middle line:90% to buy a set of encyclopedias. 00:30:25.010 --> 00:30:30.260 align:middle line:84% And I spent a lot of time in those encyclopedias concerning 00:30:30.260 --> 00:30:34.770 align:middle line:90% the acquisition of language. 00:30:34.770 --> 00:30:36.840 align:middle line:84% For me, it's the acquisition of language 00:30:36.840 --> 00:30:40.080 align:middle line:84% beyond pedestrian language, or the language 00:30:40.080 --> 00:30:42.520 align:middle line:90% we need to function every day. 00:30:42.520 --> 00:30:47.430 align:middle line:84% I do think that the Bible was the first kind of text to have 00:30:47.430 --> 00:30:51.600 align:middle line:84% kind of an inescapable influence on my sense of lyricism 00:30:51.600 --> 00:30:53.550 align:middle line:90% and words. 00:30:53.550 --> 00:30:57.330 align:middle line:84% The passages in the "Song of Solomon." 00:30:57.330 --> 00:30:59.910 align:middle line:84% I'll just share a few words from that. 00:30:59.910 --> 00:31:05.160 align:middle line:84% "You are paradise that produces pomegranates and the best 00:31:05.160 --> 00:31:08.880 align:middle line:84% fruits, henna flowers and nard, nard and saffron, 00:31:08.880 --> 00:31:13.650 align:middle line:84% calamus, cinnamon, and all kinds of incense, myrrh, aloes, 00:31:13.650 --> 00:31:15.270 align:middle line:90% and all the best spices. 00:31:15.270 --> 00:31:19.890 align:middle line:84% You are a spring for gardens, a well of living water flowing 00:31:19.890 --> 00:31:20.770 align:middle line:90% from Lebanon." 00:31:20.770 --> 00:31:25.050 align:middle line:84% I mean, it's just sitting in the congregation of the Jehovah's 00:31:25.050 --> 00:31:26.820 align:middle line:84% Witnesses, as Luis knows, that's how 00:31:26.820 --> 00:31:28.410 align:middle line:84% I grew up as a Jehovah's Witness, 00:31:28.410 --> 00:31:32.130 align:middle line:90% and just reading all the time. 00:31:32.130 --> 00:31:36.720 align:middle line:84% But I think that that lyricism, it had to have an impact on me. 00:31:36.720 --> 00:31:40.440 align:middle line:84% That kind of poetry in the Bible. 00:31:40.440 --> 00:31:42.237 align:middle line:84% But it wasn't until about 13 years old 00:31:42.237 --> 00:31:44.070 align:middle line:84% when reading, and writing, and music kind of 00:31:44.070 --> 00:31:45.660 align:middle line:90% took over my life. 00:31:45.660 --> 00:31:47.400 align:middle line:84% And The Last Poets were my heroes. 00:31:47.400 --> 00:31:50.100 align:middle line:84% And the Black Panthers were distributing 00:31:50.100 --> 00:31:51.600 align:middle line:90% outside my high school. 00:31:51.600 --> 00:31:53.160 align:middle line:90% Those things I can remember. 00:31:53.160 --> 00:31:55.680 align:middle line:84% But, boy, for the life of me, I have 00:31:55.680 --> 00:31:58.710 align:middle line:90% no idea how I learned to read. 00:31:58.710 --> 00:32:01.305 align:middle line:84% But I think you have a good idea of what happened after. 00:32:01.305 --> 00:32:02.430 align:middle line:90% That's what it sounds like. 00:32:02.430 --> 00:32:03.280 align:middle line:90% I do. 00:32:03.280 --> 00:32:05.520 align:middle line:84% You were like, I don't need Reader's Digest. 00:32:05.520 --> 00:32:08.160 align:middle line:90% I need my own book. 00:32:08.160 --> 00:32:10.260 align:middle line:90% I'm super impressed. 00:32:10.260 --> 00:32:13.140 align:middle line:84% Luis, do you remember-- as a final question-- 00:32:13.140 --> 00:32:15.570 align:middle line:84% Do you remember who taught you to read? 00:32:15.570 --> 00:32:18.260 align:middle line:90% 00:32:18.260 --> 00:32:20.700 align:middle line:90% I have to say, I taught myself. 00:32:20.700 --> 00:32:22.660 align:middle line:90% I hate to say that. 00:32:22.660 --> 00:32:26.120 align:middle line:84% But I did not speak English going into the schools. 00:32:26.120 --> 00:32:29.810 align:middle line:84% And as I mentioned, you were punished for speaking it. 00:32:29.810 --> 00:32:32.600 align:middle line:84% I didn't learn English very well because they weren't teaching 00:32:32.600 --> 00:32:35.030 align:middle line:90% it in the schools very well. 00:32:35.030 --> 00:32:37.100 align:middle line:84% And I remember, the only thing that 00:32:37.100 --> 00:32:39.560 align:middle line:84% helped me is that I love to read books. 00:32:39.560 --> 00:32:43.110 align:middle line:84% When I first got into books, I would just be reading it. 00:32:43.110 --> 00:32:46.790 align:middle line:84% And so the story that I told Mayor Eric Garcetti when 00:32:46.790 --> 00:32:48.958 align:middle line:84% he gave me this Poet Laureate thing, 00:32:48.958 --> 00:32:50.000 align:middle line:90% he didn't know the story. 00:32:50.000 --> 00:32:52.430 align:middle line:84% He gave it to me at the central public library 00:32:52.430 --> 00:32:55.460 align:middle line:84% with a lot of media and other people in my family was there. 00:32:55.460 --> 00:32:57.620 align:middle line:84% When I was 15 years old, and I was in the streets. 00:32:57.620 --> 00:32:58.670 align:middle line:90% I was homeless. 00:32:58.670 --> 00:32:59.810 align:middle line:90% I was on drugs. 00:32:59.810 --> 00:33:03.530 align:middle line:84% I had a .22 handgun to mug people to get money. 00:33:03.530 --> 00:33:05.420 align:middle line:90% I was sleeping wherever I could. 00:33:05.420 --> 00:33:07.010 align:middle line:90% I would go to that library. 00:33:07.010 --> 00:33:08.520 align:middle line:90% That was my refuge. 00:33:08.520 --> 00:33:10.280 align:middle line:90% And I read book after book. 00:33:10.280 --> 00:33:12.110 align:middle line:90% I read Ray Bradbury like crazy. 00:33:12.110 --> 00:33:13.520 align:middle line:90% I love "The Martian Chronicles". 00:33:13.520 --> 00:33:15.710 align:middle line:84% I read "Charlotte's Web" like twenty times. 00:33:15.710 --> 00:33:20.300 align:middle line:84% And I picked up Malcolm X. I picked up James Baldwin. 00:33:20.300 --> 00:33:21.560 align:middle line:90% I picked up Piri Thomas. 00:33:21.560 --> 00:33:25.100 align:middle line:84% I picked up all these amazing African-American 00:33:25.100 --> 00:33:28.670 align:middle line:84% and Puerto Rican books because there was no Chicano books. 00:33:28.670 --> 00:33:30.920 align:middle line:84% They spoke about my experience, even 00:33:30.920 --> 00:33:33.950 align:middle line:84% though they were in Harlem, or they were somewhere else. 00:33:33.950 --> 00:33:35.570 align:middle line:90% They spoke about my experience. 00:33:35.570 --> 00:33:40.410 align:middle line:84% And I thought, if they can do that, couldn't I do that? 00:33:40.410 --> 00:33:42.440 align:middle line:90% What an idea. 00:33:42.440 --> 00:33:43.440 align:middle line:90% Who would think of that? 00:33:43.440 --> 00:33:46.360 align:middle line:84% But that's when I started thinking, maybe I could do it. 00:33:46.360 --> 00:33:48.920 align:middle line:84% And if you walk down those shelves now, 00:33:48.920 --> 00:33:50.150 align:middle line:90% you can see my books-- 00:33:50.150 --> 00:33:52.880 align:middle line:84% Luis Rodriguez, all my novels, and short stories, 00:33:52.880 --> 00:33:53.810 align:middle line:90% and children's books. 00:33:53.810 --> 00:33:55.860 align:middle line:84% You can go there now and see them there. 00:33:55.860 --> 00:33:59.380 align:middle line:84% So that's how that worked for me. 00:33:59.380 --> 00:34:01.060 align:middle line:90% Wow. 00:34:01.060 --> 00:34:03.010 align:middle line:84% Well, we're going to be finishing up, 00:34:03.010 --> 00:34:06.160 align:middle line:84% but it's been beautiful spending time with all of you, 00:34:06.160 --> 00:34:10.750 align:middle line:84% hearing your work, hearing your thoughts behind your work. 00:34:10.750 --> 00:34:13.239 align:middle line:84% And just appreciative for you taking the time 00:34:13.239 --> 00:34:15.909 align:middle line:84% and being with the Poetry Center to talk more 00:34:15.909 --> 00:34:22.031 align:middle line:84% about our Institute, about poetics, inquiry, and thought. 00:34:22.031 --> 00:34:23.739 align:middle line:84% And I just want to give a final thank you 00:34:23.739 --> 00:34:28.840 align:middle line:84% to everyone for just being very present, and for your work. 00:34:28.840 --> 00:34:30.600 align:middle line:90% So gracias. 00:34:30.600 --> 00:34:41.000 align:middle line:90%