WEBVTT

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I think, in the
case of Chapman--

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and Chapman being a dramatist
as well, and Chapman

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being really fascinated by the
texture of Homer's language--

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Chapman was intrigued
by character.

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In a way, he gives
the lie to my notion

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that there's no
psychology there,

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because he does actually
give the Homeric character

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some psychology.

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But what most intrigues me
about Chapman's reading of Homer

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is that he reads it as poetry,
as a poem, and as poetry.

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And he writes some of his most
extended and most brilliant

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syntactical structures.

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He has got enormous, long
sentences in his translation.

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No other translation
that I've read actually

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does this kind of
architecture with language.

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I mean, it's sort
of pre-Miltonic.

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It's very brilliant.

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And I think, for Chapman,
Homer represents the otherness

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of poetic language.

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In other words, it
doesn't approach speech.

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At no point does
it approach speech.

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For Auden, of course, sees Homer
as, in some way, pre-dramatic,

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and as his characters
are speaking.

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Well, of course,
they are speaking.

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But none of them--

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I speak about it.

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I talk about archaeology.

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If you look at
Homeric language, it

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has in it so many different
dialect elements and levels.

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Nobody in Greece ever
spoke Homeric Greek.

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And I think that Auden makes
a big mistake when he suggests

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that it, in a sense,
plays into a kind

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of spoken dramatic prose.

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I think that's the big
difference between Chapman

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and Homer.

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Chapman is intrigued by the
otherness and the strangeness

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of Homer's language,
and is trying

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to replicate it in his brilliant
and wonderful translation.

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Whereas Homer is more
interested in the subject matter

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and its relevance to the
historical moment of fascism,

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and then, the emergence of
Nazism and the Second World

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War.

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So that would be
their difference.

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It's like with Henry V. You
have the interpretation of Henry

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V, Olivier's version, which
is, of course, patriotic,

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and so on.

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And you have the later anti-war
versions of Branagh, and so on.

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And they're different plays.

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And in fact, I think that's the
one I think they betray rather

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than use the templates.

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Yes?

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[INAUDIBLE] than what I was
used to, which was that--

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kind of opposing what
you just said, anyway--

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that basically, Homer
glorifies the heroes.

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And [INAUDIBLE] I know
why Odysseus is not

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to be considered a hero,
because he doesn't die

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a beautiful death, [INAUDIBLE].

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Doesn't make him cool.

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Hmm.

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And I was wondering [INAUDIBLE],,
because I never quite

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got into it.

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[INAUDIBLE] Odysseus
[INAUDIBLE] too much.

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And I always want to
disregard him as a hero.

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[INAUDIBLE] there has
been that other view.

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And it's just always been
kind of intriguing to me.

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I think you're dead
right about Odysseus.

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I mean, Odysseus.

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Wily Odysseus, wise Odysseus.

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He loses every single one of
his shipmates on the way home.

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And when he gets home, he
then kills all the young men

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in Ithaca because they're
fighting against him.

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So you're right.

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I mean, he's, in a funny sort
of way, a kind of anti-hero,

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though we always
regard him as a hero.

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I think he's a
loathsome character.

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Whereas Telemachus is
rather cheerful, isn't he?

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Nice sort of fellow.

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No.

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Again, but are we right
to read him in this way?

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Are we right to read
in this way at all?

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Or are we supposed to
see his actions as,

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in some way or
other, historical,

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neutral in some way?

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Because Homer doesn't judge.

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Well, I guess Homer
does judge, in a sense.

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Yeah.

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I don't see it that way at all.

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I think that it's
a representation

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of the form of justice that
they had in those days,

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and that they didn't have
justice like we see it,

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where we can have
a trial and judge.

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In those days, justice
had to do with hospitality

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and with honor.

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Mm-hmm.

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And his society
dishonored him, the men

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that we're left who are the
suitors of the woman Penelope

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was there.

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They're spoiling his
goods, his lands,

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trying to become
the king themselves

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if they can be chosen by
her, because she only has

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a position if she's married.

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An unmarried women
didn't have status.

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So she only has status as
long as he's still alive

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and can return.

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So the only justice
that's available--

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and it's driven by the
gods, not by the men--

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is that they have to be
removed because they violated

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the hospitality, which is
the way the civilization is

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interpreted at that time.

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And so his honor, his class,
has to be sustained by the gods,

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because they invented it.

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But do you think--

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[INTERPOSING VOICES]

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--have a human participant
in their drama.

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He's the one.

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That's why he is the chosen
person that Athena supports.

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She supports him because he does
everything he wants him to do,

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and he does it correctly.

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But what about all the
other people in his--

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[INAUDIBLE]

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What about all the other
people in his crew?

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And why is it
necessary at the end?

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I agree with you, actually.

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I think you're right,
because I've been really

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puzzled, in the
other poem, about why

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Achilles swallows Menelaus and
Agamemnon's horrible character.

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I mean, Agamemnon is a monster.

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It's because
Agamemnon is the king,

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and he has to, in the end.

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And Agamemnon makes himself
as repulsive as possible,

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really, to enforce the fact
of hierarchy, if you like.

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But why, at the end
of "The Odyssey,"

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does he actually end
up killing the kids?

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I know they're
resisting, and they're

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going to put up a fight.

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But why doesn't he talk to them?

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He's a great talker.

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He talks to Priam.

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He talks to Achilles.

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He's a great reasoner.

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The reason that he cannot leave
them alive is that they could

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rebel against him later
and take over his land.

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This is Stalin, isn't it?

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[INAUDIBLE]

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Yeah.

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--that he and descendants
should be forever kings,

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because kingship is the
only form of government

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that they know.

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They do not really
have democracy yet.

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They don't have participatory
government in any way.

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He is a missing king.

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He comes back.

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And he can be king
again if he can survive.

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He has to--

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Hmm.

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But he has to be able
to remove the threats.

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And so all of these young
suitors who wanted to be king,

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they don't care whether
Odysseus comes back.

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They're going to remove
Telemachus anyway.

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Athena has to remove him so
that he could survive it.

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But it seems to me--

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I agree.

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I think you're
probably right in terms

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of the structure of the poem.

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And in a way, what
you're saying proves

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that the Odyssey is probably
earlier than the Iliad.

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Because had it been,
if they had the man

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who came back to Ithaca--

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Because the reason that
Odysseus weeps and is moved by

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[INAUDIBLE]

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Yeah.

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--telling of the
building of the horse,

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is because he invented it.

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I know, but--

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And his fame--

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Hmm.

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--is why he [INAUDIBLE].

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No, but I think the composition
could be earlier, couldn't it?

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It's like, in fact,
"Paradise Regained" was

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written before "Paradise Lost."

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And the composition
could be earlier.

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And in fact, we don't
know who composed it.

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But what I'm trying to say
is that the Odysseus who

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reasons with Achilles, the
Odysseus who keeps peace

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among the warriors
in Troy, is not

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necessarily the Odysseus who
will only be violent in Ithaca.

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In other words, in
Ithaca, it would

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have been possible for
the statesman Odysseus

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to be a statesman.

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But instead, he is actually
a very primitive warlord.

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Sorry.

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I was curious about when
you talk about psychology

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and how these characters
don't have psychology.

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I guess I'm curious
if you could maybe

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just describe what psychology
is, and why [INAUDIBLE]..

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Is psychology necessarily
a modern thing

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that replaces the gods and all
these other things [INAUDIBLE]..

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Well, when we read
Shakespeare, modern critics

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often pretend or suggest
that his characters

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have psychologies.

00:08:08.930 --> 00:08:12.920 align:middle line:84%
And I think most
of us might agree

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that in Shakespeare's poems--

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I mean, Ted Hughes wrote
a whole book about this--

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the characters don't have
psychologies, but humors.

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They have dominant humors.

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As in, I think, suppose,
in the Greek drama,

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you have various characteristics
that don't, as it were,

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add up to a psychology.

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A psychology implies-- well, how
would we define a psychology?

00:08:35.742 --> 00:08:37.200 align:middle line:84%
I think what I'm
trying to suggest

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is that the characters in
Homer aren't deep in the way

00:08:41.309 --> 00:08:44.940 align:middle line:84%
that characters in O'Neill
or Miller are deep.

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They're not dramatic,
if you like.

00:08:46.800 --> 00:08:49.140 align:middle line:90%
They're historical.

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They're tied, as that gentleman
was saying, into certain rather

00:08:52.410 --> 00:08:53.850 align:middle line:90%
rigid social forms.

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There are certain actions
that are expected of them.

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And that to break the
patterns of expectation,

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as Achilles does at the
very end of "The Iliad, "

00:09:01.980 --> 00:09:06.180 align:middle line:84%
are moments of great beauty
and great, if you like,

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forgiveness.

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But to have a
psychology would be

00:09:10.260 --> 00:09:14.250 align:middle line:84%
to have a much more complex
set of motives, to be free.

00:09:14.250 --> 00:09:16.380 align:middle line:84%
If we have a psychology
within those contexts,

00:09:16.380 --> 00:09:18.620 align:middle line:84%
would be to be free to
act in certain ways.

00:09:18.620 --> 00:09:20.220 align:middle line:84%
And I don't think
that freedom is

00:09:20.220 --> 00:09:23.640 align:middle line:84%
allowed to most of the
characters in the Greek poems.

00:09:23.640 --> 00:09:25.063 align:middle line:90%
Am I wrong?

00:09:25.063 --> 00:09:25.980 align:middle line:90%
You look as I'm wrong.

00:09:25.980 --> 00:09:29.782 align:middle line:84%
I'm just wondering [INAUDIBLE]
that's a literary thing

00:09:29.782 --> 00:09:33.450 align:middle line:90%
or if that's a cultural theme.

00:09:33.450 --> 00:09:35.162 align:middle line:90%
What's the difference?

00:09:35.162 --> 00:09:38.870 align:middle line:84%
Is it just that that's the way
that they're written about?

00:09:38.870 --> 00:09:40.728 align:middle line:90%
Or is that an actual--

00:09:40.728 --> 00:09:43.120 align:middle line:84%
I mean, maybe
there's [INAUDIBLE]..

00:09:43.120 --> 00:09:46.480 align:middle line:84%
Is it actually the
way we are as humans?

00:09:46.480 --> 00:09:50.430 align:middle line:90%
Is that what's [INAUDIBLE]?

00:09:50.430 --> 00:09:53.040 align:middle line:84%
I think the way we think about
our humanity is very different.

00:09:53.040 --> 00:09:55.741 align:middle line:90%


00:09:55.741 --> 00:09:57.390 align:middle line:84%
I think what, again,
that gentleman

00:09:57.390 --> 00:10:00.810 align:middle line:84%
was saying about Odysseus going
home and the certain things

00:10:00.810 --> 00:10:06.630 align:middle line:84%
that were expected of him, that
there are certain roles we have

00:10:06.630 --> 00:10:13.660 align:middle line:84%
to fulfill if we are certain
types of person in earlier

00:10:13.660 --> 00:10:14.160 align:middle line:90%
poems.

00:10:14.160 --> 00:10:16.500 align:middle line:84%
I guess a good point
of illustration

00:10:16.500 --> 00:10:21.270 align:middle line:84%
might be Hamlet, where
almost everyone in the play

00:10:21.270 --> 00:10:23.880 align:middle line:84%
is acting according to
role, apart from Hamlet.

00:10:23.880 --> 00:10:27.652 align:middle line:84%
And Hamlet is struggling
to break a kind of mold.

00:10:27.652 --> 00:10:29.610 align:middle line:84%
And with Hamlet, you have
a kind of psychology.

00:10:29.610 --> 00:10:31.680 align:middle line:84%
Whereas, possibly, with
the other characters,

00:10:31.680 --> 00:10:34.200 align:middle line:84%
you have less of a sense of--
it's probably a loose word.

00:10:34.200 --> 00:10:35.190 align:middle line:84%
I should probably--
but don't know

00:10:35.190 --> 00:10:37.320 align:middle line:84%
what word I would use if
I don't say, a psychology.

00:10:37.320 --> 00:10:39.780 align:middle line:84%
I mean, it's a bourgeois
thing, isn't it?

00:10:39.780 --> 00:10:43.410 align:middle line:84%
Psychology is a sort
of bourgeois construct.

00:10:43.410 --> 00:10:45.630 align:middle line:84%
People exist in
relation to one another,

00:10:45.630 --> 00:10:47.590 align:middle line:84%
or they exist in
relation to themselves.

00:10:47.590 --> 00:10:50.885 align:middle line:84%
And I think in the epics, they
exist entirely in relation

00:10:50.885 --> 00:10:51.510 align:middle line:90%
to one another.

00:10:51.510 --> 00:10:56.440 align:middle line:84%
Even Odysseus, as he sheds
his mates, as it were,

00:10:56.440 --> 00:10:57.447 align:middle line:90%
as he comes home.

00:10:57.447 --> 00:10:59.030 align:middle line:84%
So I guess part of
what you're saying,

00:10:59.030 --> 00:11:04.170 align:middle line:84%
I think it would be fair to say,
that an actual ancient Greek

00:11:04.170 --> 00:11:08.250 align:middle line:84%
individual would have
a psychology in the way

00:11:08.250 --> 00:11:12.330 align:middle line:84%
that literary characters
in the [INAUDIBLE],,

00:11:12.330 --> 00:11:17.222 align:middle line:84%
a psychology that's shaped by
their own personal histories

00:11:17.222 --> 00:11:23.729 align:middle line:84%
[INAUDIBLE] the expectations
of their roles of the part

00:11:23.729 --> 00:11:26.870 align:middle line:84%
that they're playing in the
structure of the [INAUDIBLE]..

00:11:26.870 --> 00:11:28.890 align:middle line:84%
So that wouldn't be
written into the poem.

00:11:28.890 --> 00:11:29.390 align:middle line:90%
Right.

00:11:29.390 --> 00:11:29.890 align:middle line:90%
Yeah.

00:11:29.890 --> 00:11:35.594 align:middle line:84%
[INAUDIBLE] kind of
[INAUDIBLE] poetry

00:11:35.594 --> 00:11:41.925 align:middle line:90%
because Homer [INAUDIBLE]

00:11:41.925 --> 00:11:43.400 align:middle line:90%


00:11:43.400 --> 00:11:44.249 align:middle line:90%
Yeah.

00:11:44.249 --> 00:11:51.918 align:middle line:84%
[INAUDIBLE] whatever god
represents the emotion

00:11:51.918 --> 00:11:55.160 align:middle line:90%
that is being [INAUDIBLE].

00:11:55.160 --> 00:11:59.105 align:middle line:84%
Does that happen, or does the
god come in to, as it were--

00:11:59.105 --> 00:12:03.300 align:middle line:84%
when Hector is
fleeing from Achilles,

00:12:03.300 --> 00:12:05.460 align:middle line:84%
the goddess comes
and says to Achilles,

00:12:05.460 --> 00:12:07.230 align:middle line:90%
I'm going to stop him running.

00:12:07.230 --> 00:12:09.210 align:middle line:84%
And so she pretends to
be his close friend.

00:12:09.210 --> 00:12:10.982 align:middle line:84%
And he and his
close friends stop.

00:12:10.982 --> 00:12:12.690 align:middle line:84%
And they're going to
fight with Achilles.

00:12:12.690 --> 00:12:14.790 align:middle line:84%
And he turns around, and
his friend isn't there.

00:12:14.790 --> 00:12:17.820 align:middle line:84%
And he suddenly realizes he's
been duped by the goddess.

00:12:17.820 --> 00:12:20.010 align:middle line:84%
In other words,
they're playing tricks.

00:12:20.010 --> 00:12:23.070 align:middle line:84%
But what you're suggesting
is that the tricks they play

00:12:23.070 --> 00:12:26.490 align:middle line:84%
are, in a sense, some
aspect of a [INAUDIBLE]..

00:12:26.490 --> 00:12:29.490 align:middle line:84%
It could be their passion,
or their [INAUDIBLE]..

00:12:29.490 --> 00:12:33.854 align:middle line:84%
Or [INAUDIBLE] by a
god coming [INAUDIBLE]..

00:12:33.854 --> 00:12:43.031 align:middle line:90%


00:12:43.031 --> 00:12:46.080 align:middle line:84%
That's very much the case when
you get to Apollonius of Rhodes

00:12:46.080 --> 00:12:47.937 align:middle line:90%
and the voyage of the Argonauts.

00:12:47.937 --> 00:12:49.020 align:middle line:90%
But that comes much later.

00:12:49.020 --> 00:12:53.445 align:middle line:84%
I think that use of the gods
to express a subjectivity

00:12:53.445 --> 00:12:55.990 align:middle line:84%
through an objectivity, if you
like, that comes a bit later.

00:12:55.990 --> 00:12:57.990 align:middle line:84%
But I'm not sure if you
could say that of Homer.

00:12:57.990 --> 00:13:00.402 align:middle line:90%
Maybe you could.

00:13:00.402 --> 00:13:04.210 align:middle line:84%
I see Achilles as an
anti-hero, not Odysseus.

00:13:04.210 --> 00:13:05.820 align:middle line:90%
And the reason is this.

00:13:05.820 --> 00:13:08.310 align:middle line:90%
Achilles has got a choice.

00:13:08.310 --> 00:13:12.180 align:middle line:84%
His mother tells him that
he can have a long life

00:13:12.180 --> 00:13:12.990 align:middle line:90%
if he goes home--

00:13:12.990 --> 00:13:14.580 align:middle line:90%
Yeah.

00:13:14.580 --> 00:13:15.900 align:middle line:90%
--and abandons the war.

00:13:15.900 --> 00:13:16.950 align:middle line:90%
He can go on home.

00:13:16.950 --> 00:13:20.220 align:middle line:84%
He can have a long life if
he likes, and without pain.

00:13:20.220 --> 00:13:22.920 align:middle line:84%
Or we can have a
short life with pain.

00:13:22.920 --> 00:13:24.390 align:middle line:90%
"Let me die soon," he says.

00:13:24.390 --> 00:13:29.070 align:middle line:84%
Because this society
is driven by honor,

00:13:29.070 --> 00:13:31.140 align:middle line:84%
and because Patroclus,
his great friend,

00:13:31.140 --> 00:13:36.150 align:middle line:84%
has been killed by Hector,
he has to avenge that.

00:13:36.150 --> 00:13:41.665 align:middle line:84%
And so he therefore is driven
to choose the short life.

00:13:41.665 --> 00:13:43.290 align:middle line:84%
Doesn't he chose the
short life before?

00:13:43.290 --> 00:13:46.290 align:middle line:90%
He has to sustain his honor.

00:13:46.290 --> 00:13:52.380 align:middle line:84%
But later in "The Odyssey,"
when he talks to Odysseus--

00:13:52.380 --> 00:13:56.490 align:middle line:84%
Achilles talks to Odysseus
in the underworld.

00:13:56.490 --> 00:14:00.000 align:middle line:84%
He says, "it would
have been better

00:14:00.000 --> 00:14:03.420 align:middle line:84%
to have been the slave
of a man of poor means

00:14:03.420 --> 00:14:06.510 align:middle line:84%
than the king of
all of these dead."

00:14:06.510 --> 00:14:08.550 align:middle line:84%
In other words,
he realized, when

00:14:08.550 --> 00:14:12.900 align:middle line:84%
he made the choice for
fame and the short life,

00:14:12.900 --> 00:14:14.370 align:middle line:90%
that it was the wrong choice.

00:14:14.370 --> 00:14:16.067 align:middle line:84%
When he made it, or
after he'd made it?

00:14:16.067 --> 00:14:18.150 align:middle line:84%
No, he realized when he
was in Hades, talking to--

00:14:18.150 --> 00:14:18.660 align:middle line:90%
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:14:18.660 --> 00:14:20.010 align:middle line:84%
He realized he made
the wrong choice.

00:14:20.010 --> 00:14:21.510 align:middle line:84%
He should have just
said, I'm going

00:14:21.510 --> 00:14:22.677 align:middle line:90%
to go home, get out of here.

00:14:22.677 --> 00:14:24.090 align:middle line:90%
This is stupid.

00:14:24.090 --> 00:14:25.590 align:middle line:90%
But he didn't do that.

00:14:25.590 --> 00:14:27.775 align:middle line:84%
[INAUDIBLE] was because
it's a fame-driven society.

00:14:27.775 --> 00:14:29.400 align:middle line:84%
But that doesn't make
him an anti-hero.

00:14:29.400 --> 00:14:33.240 align:middle line:84%
--of the man was more important
than the life of the man.

00:14:33.240 --> 00:14:38.260 align:middle line:84%
In our society today, if we see
a lost cause, we just go home.

00:14:38.260 --> 00:14:38.927 align:middle line:90%
We don't always.

00:14:38.927 --> 00:14:40.510 align:middle line:84%
I mean, sometimes
the government says,

00:14:40.510 --> 00:14:42.840 align:middle line:84%
well, we're going to go
fight for this stupid cause,

00:14:42.840 --> 00:14:45.330 align:middle line:90%
so we can't do it.

00:14:45.330 --> 00:14:46.500 align:middle line:90%
But we shouldn't do it.

00:14:46.500 --> 00:14:48.780 align:middle line:84%
In our society today, we
should say, you know what?

00:14:48.780 --> 00:14:51.000 align:middle line:84%
This is not a cause
we want to fight for.

00:14:51.000 --> 00:14:53.130 align:middle line:84%
So finally, everybody
went home from Vietnam.

00:14:53.130 --> 00:14:53.920 align:middle line:90%
But who is we?

00:14:53.920 --> 00:14:54.420 align:middle line:90%
I mean--

00:14:54.420 --> 00:14:55.165 align:middle line:90%
[INAUDIBLE]

00:14:55.165 --> 00:14:57.540 align:middle line:84%
I don't think you found one
man after another coming home

00:14:57.540 --> 00:14:58.082 align:middle line:90%
from Vietnam.

00:14:58.082 --> 00:15:00.450 align:middle line:90%
You found a great withdrawal.

00:15:00.450 --> 00:15:03.270 align:middle line:84%
And I think that
the Greeks in Troy

00:15:03.270 --> 00:15:05.070 align:middle line:84%
had the choice of
leaving individually.

00:15:05.070 --> 00:15:08.010 align:middle line:84%
Achilles had the choice of
going, and chose not to go.

00:15:08.010 --> 00:15:09.795 align:middle line:90%
So it's a different situation.

00:15:09.795 --> 00:15:10.900 align:middle line:90%
--really have that choice?

00:15:10.900 --> 00:15:11.280 align:middle line:90%
Because--

00:15:11.280 --> 00:15:11.780 align:middle line:90%
He says so.

00:15:11.780 --> 00:15:13.530 align:middle line:84%
There's a speech in
book 12 where he says,

00:15:13.530 --> 00:15:14.370 align:middle line:90%
I could go home now.

00:15:14.370 --> 00:15:15.270 align:middle line:90%
I could-- yeah.

00:15:15.270 --> 00:15:15.665 align:middle line:90%
He could do that.

00:15:15.665 --> 00:15:16.060 align:middle line:90%
Hmm.

00:15:16.060 --> 00:15:17.395 align:middle line:90%
He realized that he can't do it.

00:15:17.395 --> 00:15:19.470 align:middle line:90%
Hmm.

00:15:19.470 --> 00:15:21.750 align:middle line:84%
Then his mother
brings him the armor.

00:15:21.750 --> 00:15:23.970 align:middle line:90%
So now he's got the armor.

00:15:23.970 --> 00:15:25.810 align:middle line:90%
Now, here's the question.

00:15:25.810 --> 00:15:28.251 align:middle line:90%
This is what I want answered.

00:15:28.251 --> 00:15:28.930 align:middle line:90%
Uh-oh.

00:15:28.930 --> 00:15:33.120 align:middle line:84%
Odysseus gets this armor
when he fights Ajax.

00:15:33.120 --> 00:15:34.200 align:middle line:90%
And he beats Ajax.

00:15:34.200 --> 00:15:37.320 align:middle line:84%
And Thetis gives him
the armor as the reward.

00:15:37.320 --> 00:15:38.790 align:middle line:90%
What happens to the armor?

00:15:38.790 --> 00:15:40.150 align:middle line:90%
Where is it?

00:15:40.150 --> 00:15:42.360 align:middle line:84%
Well, there's a big fight
over the armor later on,

00:15:42.360 --> 00:15:43.030 align:middle line:90%
isn't there?

00:15:43.030 --> 00:15:44.730 align:middle line:90%
No, Odysseus wins it.

00:15:44.730 --> 00:15:45.420 align:middle line:90%
Odysseus wins.

00:15:45.420 --> 00:15:45.920 align:middle line:90%
Yeah.

00:15:45.920 --> 00:15:47.760 align:middle line:90%
But where is it now?

00:15:47.760 --> 00:15:50.142 align:middle line:84%
Doesn't Astyanax get
it when he comes in?

00:15:50.142 --> 00:15:50.850 align:middle line:90%
I can't remember.

00:15:50.850 --> 00:15:51.480 align:middle line:90%
You tell me.

00:15:51.480 --> 00:15:55.332 align:middle line:84%
He was taking it on board
ship, or something with him.

00:15:55.332 --> 00:15:56.790 align:middle line:84%
And he must have
had it all the way

00:15:56.790 --> 00:15:59.100 align:middle line:84%
till the time when
his ship was lost,

00:15:59.100 --> 00:16:01.390 align:middle line:84%
the last ship with
the last comrades

00:16:01.390 --> 00:16:06.846 align:middle line:84%
after they went through the
whirlpool, the [INAUDIBLE]

00:16:06.846 --> 00:16:08.700 align:middle line:90%
or something like that.

00:16:08.700 --> 00:16:11.280 align:middle line:84%
So he must've lost
his armor there.

00:16:11.280 --> 00:16:12.480 align:middle line:90%
So where is it?

00:16:12.480 --> 00:16:13.650 align:middle line:90%
Who has it?

00:16:13.650 --> 00:16:18.420 align:middle line:84%
Because armor that's made by
Hephaestus is immortal armor.

00:16:18.420 --> 00:16:19.890 align:middle line:90%
It has to go to somebody later.

00:16:19.890 --> 00:16:22.200 align:middle line:90%
It has to be reborn.

00:16:22.200 --> 00:16:24.640 align:middle line:84%
That just a question I've
never got [INAUDIBLE]..

00:16:24.640 --> 00:16:28.155 align:middle line:84%
Well, it's a bit like
the Holy Grail, isn't it?

00:16:28.155 --> 00:16:30.060 align:middle line:84%
Well, we know
where the grail is.

00:16:30.060 --> 00:16:32.170 align:middle line:90%
OK.

00:16:32.170 --> 00:16:32.670 align:middle line:90%
Well, no.

00:16:32.670 --> 00:16:36.360 align:middle line:84%
I mean, if you watch Harrison
Ford, the grail [INAUDIBLE]

00:16:36.360 --> 00:16:43.380 align:middle line:84%
Lot 42 [INAUDIBLE] with 7,000
other grails in a parking lot

00:16:43.380 --> 00:16:45.128 align:middle line:90%
with the government.

00:16:45.128 --> 00:16:46.860 align:middle line:90%
It's the government's grail.

00:16:46.860 --> 00:16:48.977 align:middle line:90%
Yeah, yeah.

00:16:48.977 --> 00:16:50.310 align:middle line:90%
There was a question over there.

00:16:50.310 --> 00:16:50.850 align:middle line:90%
Over there.

00:16:50.850 --> 00:16:52.834 align:middle line:90%
Do you have a question.

00:16:52.834 --> 00:16:54.040 align:middle line:90%
Do you have a question?

00:16:54.040 --> 00:16:54.540 align:middle line:90%
No?

00:16:54.540 --> 00:16:55.500 align:middle line:90%
Go on, ask a question.

00:16:55.500 --> 00:16:56.490 align:middle line:90%
No, [INAUDIBLE].

00:16:56.490 --> 00:16:57.100 align:middle line:90%
Oh, go on.

00:16:57.100 --> 00:16:57.600 align:middle line:90%
OK.

00:16:57.600 --> 00:16:59.330 align:middle line:90%
It was a comment to something--

00:16:59.330 --> 00:16:59.970 align:middle line:90%
Oh, comments?

00:16:59.970 --> 00:17:00.480 align:middle line:90%
Say it.

00:17:00.480 --> 00:17:01.260 align:middle line:90%
--forgot, so.

00:17:01.260 --> 00:17:01.770 align:middle line:90%
Oh, OK.

00:17:01.770 --> 00:17:02.830 align:middle line:90%
No worries.

00:17:02.830 --> 00:17:03.330 align:middle line:90%
Good.

00:17:03.330 --> 00:17:06.119 align:middle line:90%


00:17:06.119 --> 00:17:06.990 align:middle line:90%
We have a silence.

00:17:06.990 --> 00:17:10.010 align:middle line:84%
Either an angel is
passing, or it's all over.

00:17:10.010 --> 00:17:12.000 align:middle line:90%