WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:01.780 align:middle line:84% We were asked to have a conversation. 00:00:01.780 --> 00:00:05.510 align:middle line:84% So I was just going to ask Jean a question, which 00:00:05.510 --> 00:00:06.670 align:middle line:90% I know a teeny bit about. 00:00:06.670 --> 00:00:08.410 align:middle line:84% But I think I would like to hear more. 00:00:08.410 --> 00:00:13.360 align:middle line:84% I'm sure you would, which is about Lucy If you don't mind, 00:00:13.360 --> 00:00:19.230 align:middle line:84% and talking a little bit about the making of that sequence. 00:00:19.230 --> 00:00:20.040 align:middle line:90% Thank you. 00:00:20.040 --> 00:00:26.130 align:middle line:90% I was very astonished by Lucy. 00:00:26.130 --> 00:00:30.300 align:middle line:84% Usually, I work like a dog and don't get lunch. 00:00:30.300 --> 00:00:35.160 align:middle line:84% And this time, I saw a picture of her in a magazine, 00:00:35.160 --> 00:00:40.530 align:middle line:84% and I wrote for a day and a half. 00:00:40.530 --> 00:00:43.560 align:middle line:90% And I had nine poems. 00:00:43.560 --> 00:00:46.110 align:middle line:84% I was about a foot off the ground, 00:00:46.110 --> 00:00:47.910 align:middle line:90% and I went to the telephone. 00:00:47.910 --> 00:00:54.300 align:middle line:84% I was staring at my dial calling where the [INAUDIBLE] and I 00:00:54.300 --> 00:00:56.000 align:middle line:90% called up a friend. 00:00:56.000 --> 00:00:58.500 align:middle line:84% And I said, I'm a little worried about myself. 00:00:58.500 --> 00:01:00.840 align:middle line:84% I didn't know if the poems were any good for one thing. 00:01:00.840 --> 00:01:04.739 align:middle line:84% But I never had a time when poems came to me like that, 00:01:04.739 --> 00:01:07.870 align:middle line:84% although I've read about it, of course, but for other people. 00:01:07.870 --> 00:01:11.460 align:middle line:84% So I called this friend because she's had that experience too. 00:01:11.460 --> 00:01:14.920 align:middle line:90% And I said, what do you think? 00:01:14.920 --> 00:01:18.040 align:middle line:90% I don't know if I'm OK or not. 00:01:18.040 --> 00:01:20.550 align:middle line:84% And she said, isn't it funny when something good 00:01:20.550 --> 00:01:22.380 align:middle line:84% happens to us, we, often, always think 00:01:22.380 --> 00:01:24.610 align:middle line:90% we're doing something wrong? 00:01:24.610 --> 00:01:26.820 align:middle line:84% So she said, it sounds like there might be more. 00:01:26.820 --> 00:01:29.710 align:middle line:84% Why don't you go back and write them, and send them to me? 00:01:29.710 --> 00:01:30.770 align:middle line:90% I'd be happy to see them. 00:01:30.770 --> 00:01:31.770 align:middle line:90% So that's what happened. 00:01:31.770 --> 00:01:33.550 align:middle line:84% I went back, and I wrote the rest of them, 00:01:33.550 --> 00:01:34.980 align:middle line:90% which was six more. 00:01:34.980 --> 00:01:36.990 align:middle line:84% So the whole thing happened in two days. 00:01:36.990 --> 00:01:40.860 align:middle line:84% And I mean everything in it is true. 00:01:40.860 --> 00:01:42.240 align:middle line:90% There was a spider-- 00:01:42.240 --> 00:01:44.580 align:middle line:90% everything. 00:01:44.580 --> 00:01:51.240 align:middle line:84% And I was telling Catherine that, along with never 00:01:51.240 --> 00:01:54.000 align:middle line:84% having had an experience like that before, I've never 00:01:54.000 --> 00:01:56.440 align:middle line:84% had an experience like this before, 00:01:56.440 --> 00:02:00.270 align:middle line:84% which was that since then, my friend told me, 00:02:00.270 --> 00:02:03.210 align:middle line:84% why don't you send this to Sarabande? 00:02:03.210 --> 00:02:07.500 align:middle line:84% They have a-- Sarabande books, they have a chapbook contest. 00:02:07.500 --> 00:02:08.580 align:middle line:90% And so I did. 00:02:08.580 --> 00:02:11.710 align:middle line:84% I called them up, on random, and I said, I got this thing. 00:02:11.710 --> 00:02:14.400 align:middle line:84% And they said send it, and about a week later they said, 00:02:14.400 --> 00:02:15.750 align:middle line:90% we'd like to publish that. 00:02:15.750 --> 00:02:18.240 align:middle line:84% Nothing like that ever happens to me. 00:02:18.240 --> 00:02:20.640 align:middle line:90% So then that happened. 00:02:20.640 --> 00:02:23.370 align:middle line:84% And since then, I've hardly read it. 00:02:23.370 --> 00:02:27.030 align:middle line:84% I've read it aloud twice now, but I've hardly read it. 00:02:27.030 --> 00:02:29.130 align:middle line:84% Usually, I pour onto my own poetry 00:02:29.130 --> 00:02:33.270 align:middle line:84% to see if it's any better today than it was yesterday. 00:02:33.270 --> 00:02:34.830 align:middle line:90% I wouldn't read this, really. 00:02:34.830 --> 00:02:40.990 align:middle line:90% It's like it's "other" to me. 00:02:40.990 --> 00:02:44.985 align:middle line:90% And so it's a strange miracle. 00:02:44.985 --> 00:02:47.550 align:middle line:90% 00:02:47.550 --> 00:02:50.410 align:middle line:90% Thank you for asking. 00:02:50.410 --> 00:02:53.610 align:middle line:84% I'm going to ask you one more question. 00:02:53.610 --> 00:02:55.300 align:middle line:84% Jean was helping me-- can you hear? 00:02:55.300 --> 00:02:57.900 align:middle line:84% She was helping me with some poem, looking at my poems. 00:02:57.900 --> 00:03:01.170 align:middle line:84% And one of them, she didn't like, and she said, 00:03:01.170 --> 00:03:03.760 align:middle line:84% there are not enough holes in it. 00:03:03.760 --> 00:03:05.370 align:middle line:90% It wasn't about-- no no. 00:03:05.370 --> 00:03:10.630 align:middle line:84% And it was exactly right, but I didn't totally understand. 00:03:10.630 --> 00:03:13.050 align:middle line:84% I, also, when she said it, I could, sort of, see, 00:03:13.050 --> 00:03:14.467 align:middle line:84% but I thought would be interesting 00:03:14.467 --> 00:03:17.280 align:middle line:84% if you could talk about the notion of holes 00:03:17.280 --> 00:03:20.470 align:middle line:90% or whatever you meant by that. 00:03:20.470 --> 00:03:22.120 align:middle line:90% Like what you're looking for. 00:03:22.120 --> 00:03:24.360 align:middle line:84% The other thing is, if Jean reads poems, 00:03:24.360 --> 00:03:27.260 align:middle line:84% the highest compliment you can get is, "oh, it's strange." 00:03:27.260 --> 00:03:29.700 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:03:29.700 --> 00:03:32.610 align:middle line:90% Yeah, I love strange. 00:03:32.610 --> 00:03:33.450 align:middle line:90% So that is true. 00:03:33.450 --> 00:03:36.840 align:middle line:84% I have a bias towards a certain kind of poem, which I shouldn't 00:03:36.840 --> 00:03:38.220 align:middle line:90% admit because I'm a teacher. 00:03:38.220 --> 00:03:42.980 align:middle line:84% But I try not to when I'm teaching, but with a friend, 00:03:42.980 --> 00:03:46.440 align:middle line:90% I do say. 00:03:46.440 --> 00:03:50.400 align:middle line:84% And I think by holes, I just meant very strange 00:03:50.400 --> 00:03:53.340 align:middle line:90% for a poem of hers, this poem-- 00:03:53.340 --> 00:03:55.080 align:middle line:84% because, you see, her poems are really 00:03:55.080 --> 00:03:59.550 align:middle line:84% poems of absolutely huge, huge, huge. 00:03:59.550 --> 00:04:04.350 align:middle line:84% This particular poem went bing, bing, bing, bing, bing. 00:04:04.350 --> 00:04:05.460 align:middle line:90% It was quite short. 00:04:05.460 --> 00:04:14.040 align:middle line:84% And it was just, it's hard to say. 00:04:14.040 --> 00:04:15.900 align:middle line:90% It didn't have any air in it. 00:04:15.900 --> 00:04:18.540 align:middle line:84% It didn't have any leaps or strangeness there. 00:04:18.540 --> 00:04:21.360 align:middle line:84% It was just like anybody might write. 00:04:21.360 --> 00:04:23.550 align:middle line:90% It wasn't like Catherine writes. 00:04:23.550 --> 00:04:25.540 align:middle line:90% That's what I was getting at. 00:04:25.540 --> 00:04:30.145 align:middle line:84% And so it was exciting to me because you 00:04:30.145 --> 00:04:32.020 align:middle line:84% might write something-- a lot of what I write 00:04:32.020 --> 00:04:33.760 align:middle line:84% is just like what she just described-- 00:04:33.760 --> 00:04:35.470 align:middle line:84% but then trying to find, well, where 00:04:35.470 --> 00:04:38.710 align:middle line:84% are the opportunities for the rupture or the interruption 00:04:38.710 --> 00:04:42.790 align:middle line:90% or the being down into the void. 00:04:42.790 --> 00:04:47.365 align:middle line:84% Bei Dao is a poet who we have both been 00:04:47.365 --> 00:04:48.490 align:middle line:90% thinking and talking about. 00:04:48.490 --> 00:04:50.380 align:middle line:84% But he was talking to his students, 00:04:50.380 --> 00:04:54.490 align:middle line:84% and he said, he wants them to write into the void, 00:04:54.490 --> 00:04:56.410 align:middle line:84% like he's writing toward the void. 00:04:56.410 --> 00:04:58.780 align:middle line:84% And that was very moving to me to hear. 00:04:58.780 --> 00:05:05.320 align:middle line:84% And so not having everything stitched up too tightly. 00:05:05.320 --> 00:05:07.180 align:middle line:84% I forgot that he said-- did he say that when 00:05:07.180 --> 00:05:08.200 align:middle line:90% you brought him over? 00:05:08.200 --> 00:05:10.870 align:middle line:90% No, he said it to his students. 00:05:10.870 --> 00:05:12.580 align:middle line:90% Yeah, he said that-- 00:05:12.580 --> 00:05:18.710 align:middle line:84% Catherine brought him over to see me when he was in New York. 00:05:18.710 --> 00:05:23.020 align:middle line:84% And he said-- can I make a change of subject 00:05:23.020 --> 00:05:24.920 align:middle line:84% here because we wanted to talk about this. 00:05:24.920 --> 00:05:28.180 align:middle line:84% He said he's teaching in Hong Kong. 00:05:28.180 --> 00:05:30.640 align:middle line:84% What he wants to teach his students most of all 00:05:30.640 --> 00:05:33.820 align:middle line:90% is international culture. 00:05:33.820 --> 00:05:36.640 align:middle line:84% He wants them to read international culture. 00:05:36.640 --> 00:05:39.580 align:middle line:84% He said that's what we can do now, 00:05:39.580 --> 00:05:42.520 align:middle line:84% and I got very excited to hear him talk about that. 00:05:42.520 --> 00:05:45.520 align:middle line:84% I've been, like all of you, doing a little bit of that, 00:05:45.520 --> 00:05:47.980 align:middle line:90% probably, along the way. 00:05:47.980 --> 00:05:50.380 align:middle line:84% But when I started out, it was really 00:05:50.380 --> 00:05:52.930 align:middle line:84% only scholars who for the most part, 00:05:52.930 --> 00:05:55.030 align:middle line:84% were people who had traveled a lot, who knew 00:05:55.030 --> 00:05:56.680 align:middle line:90% the poetry of other countries. 00:05:56.680 --> 00:05:57.940 align:middle line:90% And that began to change. 00:05:57.940 --> 00:05:59.560 align:middle line:84% And Robert Bly was one of the people 00:05:59.560 --> 00:06:02.710 align:middle line:84% who allowed that to change, and different people. 00:06:02.710 --> 00:06:05.610 align:middle line:84% But it's changed so wonderfully now. 00:06:05.610 --> 00:06:09.520 align:middle line:84% And Catherine and I were talking in the plane about how, now, 00:06:09.520 --> 00:06:11.830 align:middle line:90% there's nothing you can't read. 00:06:11.830 --> 00:06:15.850 align:middle line:84% Really nothing because it's all on the internet. 00:06:15.850 --> 00:06:16.870 align:middle line:90% It's wonderful. 00:06:16.870 --> 00:06:19.270 align:middle line:84% It's a miracle, and it's all translated. 00:06:19.270 --> 00:06:22.840 align:middle line:84% So it's a miraculous time to be a poet, I think. 00:06:22.840 --> 00:06:25.360 align:middle line:84% So we wanted to say something about that. 00:06:25.360 --> 00:06:26.870 align:middle line:90% Excuse me for interrupting. 00:06:26.870 --> 00:06:27.938 align:middle line:90% No, that's perfect. 00:06:27.938 --> 00:06:31.150 align:middle line:90% 00:06:31.150 --> 00:06:32.650 align:middle line:90% I should ask you something. 00:06:32.650 --> 00:06:34.750 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:06:34.750 --> 00:06:35.760 align:middle line:90% That would be nice. 00:06:35.760 --> 00:06:38.830 align:middle line:90% That would be polite. 00:06:38.830 --> 00:06:40.150 align:middle line:90% How do you shape a book? 00:06:40.150 --> 00:06:45.190 align:middle line:84% How do you decide when a poem or book is finished? 00:06:45.190 --> 00:06:46.870 align:middle line:90% We both made lists of questions. 00:06:46.870 --> 00:06:47.380 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:06:47.380 --> 00:06:49.780 align:middle line:84% That was also my first question to her was, 00:06:49.780 --> 00:06:53.230 align:middle line:84% how do you know when a poem is finished. 00:06:53.230 --> 00:07:00.587 align:middle line:84% So I, usually, know when I have cut off the last 12 lines. 00:07:00.587 --> 00:07:01.670 align:middle line:90% That's when it's finished. 00:07:01.670 --> 00:07:04.120 align:middle line:84% However far up I can cut is when it's finished. 00:07:04.120 --> 00:07:07.690 align:middle line:84% But about a shape of a book, I think, 00:07:07.690 --> 00:07:10.930 align:middle line:84% is something that Jean and I differ on because I labor 00:07:10.930 --> 00:07:13.790 align:middle line:84% a long time trying to figure out as if-- if I could think hard 00:07:13.790 --> 00:07:14.290 align:middle line:90% enough-- 00:07:14.290 --> 00:07:17.620 align:middle line:84% I'll be able to figure out, with this collection of poems, 00:07:17.620 --> 00:07:20.320 align:middle line:90% how they could be ordered. 00:07:20.320 --> 00:07:23.643 align:middle line:84% And if the daughter, Frances, will 00:07:23.643 --> 00:07:25.810 align:middle line:84% be happy to hear this, and the daughter of a lawyer. 00:07:25.810 --> 00:07:28.353 align:middle line:84% And it's like, if you think hard enough, 00:07:28.353 --> 00:07:30.020 align:middle line:84% you should be able to figure things out. 00:07:30.020 --> 00:07:33.340 align:middle line:84% And it's a lot, to keep in the air, all those poems. 00:07:33.340 --> 00:07:39.530 align:middle line:84% But I do try to, I think, work mostly in sequence, 00:07:39.530 --> 00:07:44.320 align:middle line:84% and that allows me not to have every poem make sense 00:07:44.320 --> 00:07:45.250 align:middle line:90% by itself. 00:07:45.250 --> 00:07:46.960 align:middle line:84% But then it also means that how they get 00:07:46.960 --> 00:07:49.510 align:middle line:84% ordered matters because they really would just 00:07:49.510 --> 00:07:51.800 align:middle line:90% flop right over by themselves. 00:07:51.800 --> 00:07:55.600 align:middle line:84% So I seem stuck thinking a lot about it. 00:07:55.600 --> 00:08:00.922 align:middle line:84% And the other problem is that, let's say, I 00:08:00.922 --> 00:08:01.880 align:middle line:90% think there's an order. 00:08:01.880 --> 00:08:04.090 align:middle line:84% Then it requires revision of certain poems 00:08:04.090 --> 00:08:06.460 align:middle line:84% to make that order make sense, and then I 00:08:06.460 --> 00:08:08.290 align:middle line:84% decide that's not the right order. 00:08:08.290 --> 00:08:11.380 align:middle line:84% So then it's like you un-revised and you revised back. 00:08:11.380 --> 00:08:15.340 align:middle line:84% And Valéry says, Paul Valéry says, you don't finish, 00:08:15.340 --> 00:08:16.550 align:middle line:90% you just abandon the poem. 00:08:16.550 --> 00:08:17.050 align:middle line:90% So-- 00:08:17.050 --> 00:08:17.980 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:08:17.980 --> 00:08:20.110 align:middle line:90% --that may be closer. 00:08:20.110 --> 00:08:22.000 align:middle line:90% But I do think a lot about-- 00:08:22.000 --> 00:08:25.750 align:middle line:90% I do try to think about it. 00:08:25.750 --> 00:08:28.690 align:middle line:84% And Jean was, actually, helping me a little bit 00:08:28.690 --> 00:08:29.770 align:middle line:90% today with that. 00:08:29.770 --> 00:08:32.559 align:middle line:90% 00:08:32.559 --> 00:08:35.990 align:middle line:84% It just occurred to me, Catherine said earlier. 00:08:35.990 --> 00:08:37.929 align:middle line:84% We've been talking for about 40 hours, 00:08:37.929 --> 00:08:41.740 align:middle line:84% so forgive us if we forget you're here. 00:08:41.740 --> 00:08:42.970 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:08:42.970 --> 00:08:43.880 align:middle line:90% We don't, really. 00:08:43.880 --> 00:08:45.850 align:middle line:84% But one of the things that she said 00:08:45.850 --> 00:08:48.910 align:middle line:84% is that she hasn't sent many poems out to magazines. 00:08:48.910 --> 00:08:54.320 align:middle line:84% And I didn't think, until this moment, that, of course, 00:08:54.320 --> 00:08:56.380 align:middle line:84% if you're doing sequences-- and not 00:08:56.380 --> 00:08:58.360 align:middle line:84% every poem stands on its own because I've 00:08:58.360 --> 00:08:59.500 align:middle line:90% done some like that too. 00:08:59.500 --> 00:09:01.432 align:middle line:84% Not nearly as much-- but then you 00:09:01.432 --> 00:09:02.890 align:middle line:84% don't send them out because they're 00:09:02.890 --> 00:09:06.640 align:middle line:84% foolish unless they have the whole sequence around them. 00:09:06.640 --> 00:09:11.640 align:middle line:84% So that just explained to me part of that. 00:09:11.640 --> 00:09:14.230 align:middle line:84% I was also thinking, something else 00:09:14.230 --> 00:09:16.915 align:middle line:84% you might not know about Jean is that she recently edited-- 00:09:16.915 --> 00:09:19.507 align:middle line:90% 00:09:19.507 --> 00:09:20.590 align:middle line:90% what do you call an issue? 00:09:20.590 --> 00:09:22.173 align:middle line:84% I was going to say a draft, a version, 00:09:22.173 --> 00:09:24.790 align:middle line:90% an issue of Ploughshares. 00:09:24.790 --> 00:09:26.650 align:middle line:84% And I thought you might talk a little bit 00:09:26.650 --> 00:09:29.800 align:middle line:84% because it was very interesting to hear you talk about it. 00:09:29.800 --> 00:09:33.280 align:middle line:84% You actually asked for poems from people 00:09:33.280 --> 00:09:34.990 align:middle line:90% who just had one book or-- 00:09:34.990 --> 00:09:35.590 align:middle line:90% Is that right? 00:09:35.590 --> 00:09:36.090 align:middle line:90% And then-- 00:09:36.090 --> 00:09:38.080 align:middle line:90% One book or none. 00:09:38.080 --> 00:09:41.050 align:middle line:84% And you want to talk a little bit about what that was like. 00:09:41.050 --> 00:09:43.990 align:middle line:84% Yeah, they get guest editors, either fiction writers 00:09:43.990 --> 00:09:47.900 align:middle line:84% or nonfiction or poets to do their issues. 00:09:47.900 --> 00:09:53.830 align:middle line:84% And so, I thought I would like to have, as Catherine said, 00:09:53.830 --> 00:09:57.520 align:middle line:84% just people who are, one way or another, starting out, 00:09:57.520 --> 00:09:59.570 align:middle line:84% who might have one book, that might have nothing. 00:09:59.570 --> 00:10:03.550 align:middle line:84% And so I asked the people I knew if they would send me 00:10:03.550 --> 00:10:08.050 align:middle line:84% those people that they knew who were in that stage of things. 00:10:08.050 --> 00:10:09.340 align:middle line:90% If they would send me poems. 00:10:09.340 --> 00:10:11.350 align:middle line:84% But they had to be people I didn't know 00:10:11.350 --> 00:10:13.300 align:middle line:84% and people I never touched because I 00:10:13.300 --> 00:10:14.410 align:middle line:90% couldn't get into that. 00:10:14.410 --> 00:10:18.700 align:middle line:84% That would be terrible to choose one person over another. 00:10:18.700 --> 00:10:24.190 align:middle line:84% And also, I wanted to be seeing new poems, which 00:10:24.190 --> 00:10:25.040 align:middle line:90% is what happened. 00:10:25.040 --> 00:10:27.550 align:middle line:84% And so I just gave myself the month of May, 00:10:27.550 --> 00:10:29.710 align:middle line:84% and all these boxes came to my house. 00:10:29.710 --> 00:10:31.010 align:middle line:90% It was very exciting. 00:10:31.010 --> 00:10:33.250 align:middle line:84% And so I just went through the boxes. 00:10:33.250 --> 00:10:36.460 align:middle line:84% And the only problem was that I got a little lonely because it 00:10:36.460 --> 00:10:38.470 align:middle line:90% was just me and the boxes. 00:10:38.470 --> 00:10:42.340 align:middle line:84% So I invited friends like Catherine and other poet 00:10:42.340 --> 00:10:44.710 align:middle line:90% friends to come in and help me. 00:10:44.710 --> 00:10:46.630 align:middle line:90% And that was wonderful. 00:10:46.630 --> 00:10:48.910 align:middle line:84% The best thing about it was it gave me 00:10:48.910 --> 00:10:51.220 align:middle line:90% such a huge sense of hope. 00:10:51.220 --> 00:10:52.793 align:middle line:84% I hope you look out for this issue. 00:10:52.793 --> 00:10:54.460 align:middle line:84% They say it's going to come in December, 00:10:54.460 --> 00:10:57.310 align:middle line:84% but I think it'll be more like March, probably, 00:10:57.310 --> 00:10:58.450 align:middle line:90% because they're behind. 00:10:58.450 --> 00:11:02.170 align:middle line:84% But I felt such a huge sense of hope 00:11:02.170 --> 00:11:04.180 align:middle line:84% because there are all these wonderful poets 00:11:04.180 --> 00:11:07.090 align:middle line:84% all over the country just writing their poems. 00:11:07.090 --> 00:11:13.070 align:middle line:84% And many, many, many of them, I never had known their work. 00:11:13.070 --> 00:11:15.850 align:middle line:90% And so many wonderful poems. 00:11:15.850 --> 00:11:19.148 align:middle line:84% So it made me feel better about our country. 00:11:19.148 --> 00:11:20.190 align:middle line:90% You know what I'm saying? 00:11:20.190 --> 00:11:22.440 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:11:22.440 --> 00:11:24.030 align:middle line:90% But it really did. 00:11:24.030 --> 00:11:28.445 align:middle line:84% I feel very, very excited and happy. 00:11:28.445 --> 00:11:31.750 align:middle line:90% 00:11:31.750 --> 00:11:34.130 align:middle line:84% I don't know where Gail-- oh, there she is. 00:11:34.130 --> 00:11:34.750 align:middle line:90% Should we-- 00:11:34.750 --> 00:11:36.430 align:middle line:84% You can ask a question or two, three-- 00:11:36.430 --> 00:11:38.020 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:11:38.020 --> 00:11:41.640 align:middle line:84% I think, if you guys have questions, 00:11:41.640 --> 00:11:45.769 align:middle line:90% you're welcome to ask. 00:11:45.769 --> 00:11:51.770 align:middle line:84% So Jean, there was a line in one of your-- 00:11:51.770 --> 00:11:53.690 align:middle line:84% towards the end of your Lucy sequence. 00:11:53.690 --> 00:11:58.043 align:middle line:84% It was, "when writing came back to me, I prayed." 00:11:58.043 --> 00:12:00.750 align:middle line:84% I was wondering if you could talk about that. 00:12:00.750 --> 00:12:01.383 align:middle line:90% Sure. 00:12:01.383 --> 00:12:02.425 align:middle line:90% --right around that area. 00:12:02.425 --> 00:12:03.170 align:middle line:90% Sure, yeah. 00:12:03.170 --> 00:12:05.870 align:middle line:90% I had five years, when I was-- 00:12:05.870 --> 00:12:09.440 align:middle line:84% I don't know, 50 or something-- when I didn't write at all. 00:12:09.440 --> 00:12:12.530 align:middle line:84% I just stopped writing completely. 00:12:12.530 --> 00:12:17.960 align:middle line:84% And I didn't know if I'd ever write again. 00:12:17.960 --> 00:12:20.240 align:middle line:84% Writer friends said that must have been terrible, 00:12:20.240 --> 00:12:21.470 align:middle line:90% but it wasn't so terrible. 00:12:21.470 --> 00:12:24.470 align:middle line:84% Because what I found was it was terrible in some ways 00:12:24.470 --> 00:12:27.740 align:middle line:84% because I wasn't doing what I usually do. 00:12:27.740 --> 00:12:33.470 align:middle line:84% But I found out that I was still there, and that was wonderful. 00:12:33.470 --> 00:12:35.000 align:middle line:90% I wasn't going with any man. 00:12:35.000 --> 00:12:36.050 align:middle line:90% I wasn't writing poetry. 00:12:36.050 --> 00:12:36.920 align:middle line:90% I wasn't doing this. 00:12:36.920 --> 00:12:39.320 align:middle line:84% I wasn't doing that, but I was still there. 00:12:39.320 --> 00:12:42.330 align:middle line:84% So I didn't have my usual identities. 00:12:42.330 --> 00:12:43.670 align:middle line:90% So that was very good. 00:12:43.670 --> 00:12:47.330 align:middle line:84% But then, I was driving the car, and a poem came to me. 00:12:47.330 --> 00:12:48.950 align:middle line:90% And, literally, I couldn't stop. 00:12:48.950 --> 00:12:50.120 align:middle line:90% I couldn't get off the road. 00:12:50.120 --> 00:12:52.820 align:middle line:84% I was so afraid I'd lose it that I took out my lipstick 00:12:52.820 --> 00:12:55.077 align:middle line:90% and wrote it on the-- 00:12:55.077 --> 00:12:55.910 align:middle line:90% what do you call it? 00:12:55.910 --> 00:12:56.528 align:middle line:90% The dash? 00:12:56.528 --> 00:12:58.070 align:middle line:84% What do you call it-- the windshield. 00:12:58.070 --> 00:12:59.870 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:12:59.870 --> 00:13:01.700 align:middle line:90% So that literally happened. 00:13:01.700 --> 00:13:03.440 align:middle line:84% (FAINTLY) It was a frosty night, though. 00:13:03.440 --> 00:13:04.010 align:middle line:90% Excuse me? 00:13:04.010 --> 00:13:05.540 align:middle line:90% It was a frosty night? 00:13:05.540 --> 00:13:08.420 align:middle line:84% No it wasn't, but it would be nice to say 00:13:08.420 --> 00:13:10.310 align:middle line:90% it was a frosty night. 00:13:10.310 --> 00:13:11.720 align:middle line:90% It was, so let's make it that. 00:13:11.720 --> 00:13:13.060 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:13:13.060 --> 00:13:13.790 align:middle line:90% --and dark. 00:13:13.790 --> 00:13:16.265 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:13:16.265 --> 00:13:21.220 align:middle line:90% 00:13:21.220 --> 00:13:28.390 align:middle line:84% I'm going to ask Catherine who her favorite writers are. 00:13:28.390 --> 00:13:32.213 align:middle line:84% I didn't tell you about that question. 00:13:32.213 --> 00:13:33.380 align:middle line:90% You know who they are, but-- 00:13:33.380 --> 00:13:37.750 align:middle line:84% I know, but I want to ask you to tell them. 00:13:37.750 --> 00:13:45.100 align:middle line:84% We share a love for a poet, Kathleen Peirce, and Paul Celan 00:13:45.100 --> 00:13:54.730 align:middle line:84% and Hopkins and Bishop and a young up-- well, 00:13:54.730 --> 00:13:56.440 align:middle line:90% she's a contemporary mind. 00:13:56.440 --> 00:13:59.210 align:middle line:84% So she's not young, but she's a contemporary mind-- 00:13:59.210 --> 00:14:01.180 align:middle line:84% Miranda Field, I think, is a terrific poet. 00:14:01.180 --> 00:14:04.210 align:middle line:90% 00:14:04.210 --> 00:14:10.300 align:middle line:84% So those are some of them I always carry around. 00:14:10.300 --> 00:14:11.740 align:middle line:84% I carry Jean around a lot with me, 00:14:11.740 --> 00:14:14.470 align:middle line:84% and then I carry around Dickinson's letters. 00:14:14.470 --> 00:14:20.200 align:middle line:84% I find them just an enormous, not even an inspiration. 00:14:20.200 --> 00:14:22.210 align:middle line:84% It's like a drive towards something. 00:14:22.210 --> 00:14:26.727 align:middle line:84% She says she's afraid, so she sings in the orchard. 00:14:26.727 --> 00:14:27.560 align:middle line:90% Is that how it goes? 00:14:27.560 --> 00:14:33.500 align:middle line:84% Like something is in this fearless singing against death 00:14:33.500 --> 00:14:36.920 align:middle line:84% that she does that I find very hopeful. 00:14:36.920 --> 00:14:41.845 align:middle line:84% And Frances asked me at dinner about, 00:14:41.845 --> 00:14:43.220 align:middle line:84% she was asking me about my poems. 00:14:43.220 --> 00:14:45.345 align:middle line:84% And then she said, well, who have you been reading? 00:14:45.345 --> 00:14:48.088 align:middle line:84% Because I said they were filled with dread, which is usually 00:14:48.088 --> 00:14:49.130 align:middle line:90% what they're filled with. 00:14:49.130 --> 00:14:50.900 align:middle line:84% And so we started talking about Beckett 00:14:50.900 --> 00:14:53.600 align:middle line:84% who is absolutely one of my favorite writers. 00:14:53.600 --> 00:14:56.180 align:middle line:84% And she asked, was that making me feel dread? 00:14:56.180 --> 00:14:57.740 align:middle line:84% But I actually feel very accompanied 00:14:57.740 --> 00:15:03.590 align:middle line:84% by these dark, dread-filled, luminous voices. 00:15:03.590 --> 00:15:09.743 align:middle line:84% They fill them as company, so that's what I'm drawn to. 00:15:09.743 --> 00:15:11.160 align:middle line:84% There's so much I was saying also. 00:15:11.160 --> 00:15:14.030 align:middle line:84% There's so much I miss in the world, 00:15:14.030 --> 00:15:16.820 align:middle line:84% like you could spend a long time on a poem still 00:15:16.820 --> 00:15:19.970 align:middle line:90% not even begin to have it. 00:15:19.970 --> 00:15:22.220 align:middle line:84% But, meanwhile, there's all these other amazing things 00:15:22.220 --> 00:15:24.350 align:middle line:90% being written. 00:15:24.350 --> 00:15:29.270 align:middle line:84% So I haven't been reading very much fiction 00:15:29.270 --> 00:15:30.540 align:middle line:90% because I have a child. 00:15:30.540 --> 00:15:32.270 align:middle line:84% And I realized, when he was young, 00:15:32.270 --> 00:15:34.010 align:middle line:90% I kept getting interrupted. 00:15:34.010 --> 00:15:36.268 align:middle line:84% And it was horrible because I wanted to read, 00:15:36.268 --> 00:15:37.310 align:middle line:90% but he's interrupting me. 00:15:37.310 --> 00:15:40.490 align:middle line:84% So I just decided poems, you can read them 00:15:40.490 --> 00:15:42.150 align:middle line:90% and be interrupted more easily. 00:15:42.150 --> 00:15:44.105 align:middle line:90% So, I think-- he's 12. 00:15:44.105 --> 00:15:45.320 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:15:45.320 --> 00:15:47.179 align:middle line:90% So in another-- 00:15:47.179 --> 00:15:47.804 align:middle line:90% (CHUCKLING) 12. 00:15:47.804 --> 00:15:48.680 align:middle line:90% --another few years-- 00:15:48.680 --> 00:15:49.650 align:middle line:90% Another 12. 00:15:49.650 --> 00:15:50.150 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:15:50.150 --> 00:15:53.220 align:middle line:84% --in that case, I can go back to fiction. 00:15:53.220 --> 00:15:56.280 align:middle line:84% You think that's any reason why you write poetry as well? 00:15:56.280 --> 00:15:58.890 align:middle line:90% 00:15:58.890 --> 00:15:59.390 align:middle line:90% You mean-- 00:15:59.390 --> 00:16:01.340 align:middle line:90% [INTERPOSING VOICES] 00:16:01.340 --> 00:16:03.110 align:middle line:90% --interruption. 00:16:03.110 --> 00:16:04.940 align:middle line:90% Well it's interesting that-- 00:16:04.940 --> 00:16:07.970 align:middle line:90% I don't think you know this one. 00:16:07.970 --> 00:16:09.620 align:middle line:90% I told someone in workshop-- 00:16:09.620 --> 00:16:13.130 align:middle line:84% I think, yesterday, or someone-- when I was pregnant, 00:16:13.130 --> 00:16:14.870 align:middle line:84% the night before he was born, I was still 00:16:14.870 --> 00:16:19.010 align:middle line:84% thinking about would I go back to school in social work, 00:16:19.010 --> 00:16:23.240 align:middle line:84% because I would like to work in psychology, 00:16:23.240 --> 00:16:24.402 align:middle line:90% or should I keep writing? 00:16:24.402 --> 00:16:25.610 align:middle line:90% I was already a prose writer. 00:16:25.610 --> 00:16:28.340 align:middle line:84% I was a journalist and an editor for years. 00:16:28.340 --> 00:16:31.370 align:middle line:84% And then I realized, as soon as he was born, 00:16:31.370 --> 00:16:35.930 align:middle line:84% that I would not survive the loss that is just part of-- 00:16:35.930 --> 00:16:39.200 align:middle line:84% I mean, if you're lucky, it's a natural loss 00:16:39.200 --> 00:16:40.968 align:middle line:90% where the child just grows up. 00:16:40.968 --> 00:16:43.010 align:middle line:84% And at that point, that's what I was thinking of. 00:16:43.010 --> 00:16:46.520 align:middle line:84% I wouldn't even survive that if I weren't writing. 00:16:46.520 --> 00:16:49.790 align:middle line:84% Then there's other kinds of more devastating, real losses 00:16:49.790 --> 00:16:51.050 align:middle line:90% that I had no idea about. 00:16:51.050 --> 00:16:53.780 align:middle line:90% 00:16:53.780 --> 00:16:57.830 align:middle line:84% And I think I didn't write poetry until he was born, 00:16:57.830 --> 00:17:02.660 align:middle line:84% and I think there was something about the lyric, time, 00:17:02.660 --> 00:17:08.550 align:middle line:84% of that experience that poetry made more sense for me. 00:17:08.550 --> 00:17:11.780 align:middle line:84% And I loved language, and I never could make a story that-- 00:17:11.780 --> 00:17:14.750 align:middle line:84% I never cared like, why did a character do that? 00:17:14.750 --> 00:17:17.000 align:middle line:84% Or how do they get them from one room to the other. 00:17:17.000 --> 00:17:17.589 align:middle line:90% I know. 00:17:17.589 --> 00:17:18.829 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:17:18.829 --> 00:17:19.329 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:17:19.329 --> 00:17:22.010 align:middle line:90% 00:17:22.010 --> 00:17:24.770 align:middle line:84% I tried to write a novel once, and I got about 70 pages, 00:17:24.770 --> 00:17:26.150 align:middle line:90% but nothing happened. 00:17:26.150 --> 00:17:26.930 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:17:26.930 --> 00:17:29.000 align:middle line:90% Absolutely nothing. 00:17:29.000 --> 00:17:32.600 align:middle line:84% So I thought, I better write poetry. 00:17:32.600 --> 00:17:35.690 align:middle line:84% We should probably let you all go, don't you think? 00:17:35.690 --> 00:17:37.130 align:middle line:90% OK, thank you so much. 00:17:37.130 --> 00:17:38.980 align:middle line:90% [APPLAUSE] 00:17:38.980 --> 00:17:41.000 align:middle line:90%