WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.560 align:middle line:84% So now that you threw that curveball at me-- 00:00:04.560 --> 00:00:05.760 align:middle line:90% Sorry. 00:00:05.760 --> 00:00:07.690 align:middle line:90% --awesome and totally wild. 00:00:07.690 --> 00:00:10.622 align:middle line:84% And I think it's ecological, but we could talk about that. 00:00:10.622 --> 00:00:12.330 align:middle line:84% But I guess I just cut right to the chase 00:00:12.330 --> 00:00:15.000 align:middle line:90% and ask you, is the pastoral-- 00:00:15.000 --> 00:00:16.890 align:middle line:84% is the past-- I want to get the words right. 00:00:16.890 --> 00:00:19.080 align:middle line:84% That the picturesque-- do you hear? 00:00:19.080 --> 00:00:20.905 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:00:20.905 --> 00:00:21.780 align:middle line:90% How do I turn it off? 00:00:21.780 --> 00:00:22.730 align:middle line:90% Green light? 00:00:22.730 --> 00:00:25.360 align:middle line:90% No, well there it is. 00:00:25.360 --> 00:00:26.830 align:middle line:90% Do you hear me now? 00:00:26.830 --> 00:00:27.330 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:00:27.330 --> 00:00:28.420 align:middle line:90% OK. 00:00:28.420 --> 00:00:29.830 align:middle line:90% So-- 00:00:29.830 --> 00:00:30.700 align:middle line:90% There's an outside? 00:00:30.700 --> 00:00:31.520 align:middle line:90% Yes, there is an outside. 00:00:31.520 --> 00:00:31.790 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:00:31.790 --> 00:00:32.299 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:00:32.299 --> 00:00:32.830 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:00:32.830 --> 00:00:36.490 align:middle line:84% There's this interesting situation where there's glass-- 00:00:36.490 --> 00:00:38.892 align:middle line:84% there's glass and there are people outside of the glass 00:00:38.892 --> 00:00:40.600 align:middle line:84% and there are people inside of the glass. 00:00:40.600 --> 00:00:42.580 align:middle line:84% So for the people outside of the glass, 00:00:42.580 --> 00:00:47.050 align:middle line:84% I was thanking Gail, once again, for putting Juliana 00:00:47.050 --> 00:00:48.640 align:middle line:90% and me together. 00:00:48.640 --> 00:00:51.310 align:middle line:84% And I was saying now that Juliana 00:00:51.310 --> 00:00:55.090 align:middle line:84% threw that curveball at me, which I think 00:00:55.090 --> 00:01:00.482 align:middle line:84% is totally wild and wonderful ecological curveball. 00:01:00.482 --> 00:01:02.440 align:middle line:84% I thought I'd ask you, is the picturesque story 00:01:02.440 --> 00:01:04.810 align:middle line:84% about the small plot of land immoral? 00:01:04.810 --> 00:01:11.720 align:middle line:90% 00:01:11.720 --> 00:01:12.630 align:middle line:90% Oh, I don't, yeah-- 00:01:12.630 --> 00:01:14.940 align:middle line:90% 00:01:14.940 --> 00:01:16.940 align:middle line:84% Is that an indictment of the picturesque story-- 00:01:16.940 --> 00:01:17.773 align:middle line:90% [INTERPOSING VOICES] 00:01:17.773 --> 00:01:19.022 align:middle line:90% Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:01:19.022 --> 00:01:20.480 align:middle line:84% [INAUDIBLE] has talked about this-- 00:01:20.480 --> 00:01:25.040 align:middle line:84% I have this moment where I tried to inflect it as being a jerk 00:01:25.040 --> 00:01:26.490 align:middle line:84% where I talk about nature poetry. 00:01:26.490 --> 00:01:28.190 align:middle line:84% I talk about how I'm in the bar, and I'm drunk 00:01:28.190 --> 00:01:30.380 align:middle line:84% talking about nature poetry being immoral, as like, 00:01:30.380 --> 00:01:32.150 align:middle line:90% as an idiot. 00:01:32.150 --> 00:01:34.100 align:middle line:90% But also as a-- 00:01:34.100 --> 00:01:36.170 align:middle line:84% maybe as a thought experiment at the same time. 00:01:36.170 --> 00:01:43.130 align:middle line:84% I'm interested in what are the moments when 00:01:43.130 --> 00:01:46.470 align:middle line:90% things don't move us to change? 00:01:46.470 --> 00:01:47.970 align:middle line:84% What are the boundaries around that? 00:01:47.970 --> 00:01:50.167 align:middle line:84% And I feel like it's an impossible to answer. 00:01:50.167 --> 00:01:52.250 align:middle line:84% We kept going around and around about the question 00:01:52.250 --> 00:01:54.840 align:middle line:84% and it became like it's impossible to answer. 00:01:54.840 --> 00:01:58.850 align:middle line:90% And I actually think that the-- 00:01:58.850 --> 00:02:00.980 align:middle line:84% yesterday we were saying this thing about when 00:02:00.980 --> 00:02:02.480 align:middle line:84% you edit ecopoetics and you're like, 00:02:02.480 --> 00:02:04.190 align:middle line:90% there's a poem that I maybe-- 00:02:04.190 --> 00:02:06.500 align:middle line:84% it's not doing the work that I want poetry to do. 00:02:06.500 --> 00:02:08.419 align:middle line:84% And I might put it next to a poem that's 00:02:08.419 --> 00:02:11.150 align:middle line:84% doing a different sort of work to see it 00:02:11.150 --> 00:02:13.770 align:middle line:90% as a conversation in some way. 00:02:13.770 --> 00:02:17.990 align:middle line:84% And I think the problem is when you only get one part of it 00:02:17.990 --> 00:02:22.050 align:middle line:84% and you don't get the whole conversation in some sense. 00:02:22.050 --> 00:02:26.760 align:middle line:84% And so the problem would be if there was. 00:02:26.760 --> 00:02:28.760 align:middle line:84% And maybe there are at moments-- and maybe there 00:02:28.760 --> 00:02:31.668 align:middle line:84% aren't at moments which I think we could probably argue about. 00:02:31.668 --> 00:02:33.710 align:middle line:84% And I'm not even sure what side I would come down 00:02:33.710 --> 00:02:34.790 align:middle line:90% on most of the time. 00:02:34.790 --> 00:02:39.410 align:middle line:84% A dominant tradition of how you write a nature poem, 00:02:39.410 --> 00:02:44.122 align:middle line:84% and that dominant tradition was to do something that-- 00:02:44.122 --> 00:02:45.830 align:middle line:84% but the things that I-- the things that-- 00:02:45.830 --> 00:02:47.330 align:middle line:84% I'm less interested in nature poetry 00:02:47.330 --> 00:02:50.540 align:middle line:84% when it does things when it becomes epiphanic about humans. 00:02:50.540 --> 00:02:53.025 align:middle line:84% When the human sees the geese fly by 00:02:53.025 --> 00:02:54.650 align:middle line:84% and has that moment where they're like, 00:02:54.650 --> 00:03:00.950 align:middle line:84% and I realized how much I love my lover or whatever it is. 00:03:00.950 --> 00:03:04.940 align:middle line:84% And then that moment that also like 00:03:04.940 --> 00:03:07.820 align:middle line:84% the march of the penguins moment or the bird not the bulldozer 00:03:07.820 --> 00:03:13.090 align:middle line:84% moment or the celebratory of the invasive flower 00:03:13.090 --> 00:03:14.840 align:middle line:84% that came with colonialism that completely 00:03:14.840 --> 00:03:18.997 align:middle line:84% changed the eating habits and starved many people which 00:03:18.997 --> 00:03:21.080 align:middle line:84% happened with the destruction of the bunch grasses 00:03:21.080 --> 00:03:22.430 align:middle line:90% in California. 00:03:22.430 --> 00:03:24.200 align:middle line:84% If you only have that, then I think 00:03:24.200 --> 00:03:29.030 align:middle line:84% that's when that poetry isn't doing the work that poetry 00:03:29.030 --> 00:03:31.693 align:middle line:90% can possibly do. 00:03:31.693 --> 00:03:33.110 align:middle line:84% However, there are moments where I 00:03:33.110 --> 00:03:37.850 align:middle line:84% feel like that work in a spread of poetry 00:03:37.850 --> 00:03:38.960 align:middle line:90% might have a certain-- 00:03:38.960 --> 00:03:40.790 align:middle line:90% might build empathy in some way. 00:03:40.790 --> 00:03:43.250 align:middle line:84% Like maybe that poem about the epiphanic poem 00:03:43.250 --> 00:03:45.290 align:middle line:84% might be the moment where someone says like, 00:03:45.290 --> 00:03:47.810 align:middle line:84% oh, I actually have a relationship to something 00:03:47.810 --> 00:03:51.800 align:middle line:84% that I'm going to go out and think about more. 00:03:51.800 --> 00:03:54.898 align:middle line:84% So it's like I'm always interested in asking 00:03:54.898 --> 00:03:56.690 align:middle line:84% the question, but I'm not really interested 00:03:56.690 --> 00:03:58.790 align:middle line:84% in the necessarily in the dogmatic answer. 00:03:58.790 --> 00:04:01.580 align:middle line:84% But I think to not ask the question is 00:04:01.580 --> 00:04:03.320 align:middle line:90% the problem potentially. 00:04:03.320 --> 00:04:08.490 align:middle line:84% If you don't pursue the dialogue then you sell it short. 00:04:08.490 --> 00:04:11.843 align:middle line:84% I was to ask you about to move to dialogue precisely. 00:04:11.843 --> 00:04:13.760 align:middle line:84% And it was a question I had formulated earlier 00:04:13.760 --> 00:04:15.890 align:middle line:90% is one about collaboration. 00:04:15.890 --> 00:04:18.050 align:middle line:84% That you've almost always collaborated. 00:04:18.050 --> 00:04:24.475 align:middle line:84% So is collaboration central for you to getting the both sides 00:04:24.475 --> 00:04:25.100 align:middle line:90% of the picture. 00:04:25.100 --> 00:04:26.990 align:middle line:90% And I mean, is it-- 00:04:26.990 --> 00:04:30.170 align:middle line:84% maybe is it problematic in ways and then how has this piece? 00:04:30.170 --> 00:04:33.040 align:middle line:90% 00:04:33.040 --> 00:04:34.640 align:middle line:90% I don't know. 00:04:34.640 --> 00:04:36.320 align:middle line:84% It helps me because it's really close 00:04:36.320 --> 00:04:37.760 align:middle line:90% thinking with other humans. 00:04:37.760 --> 00:04:40.710 align:middle line:84% So it's like, I mean, that's what's actually great about it. 00:04:40.710 --> 00:04:43.940 align:middle line:84% And that's what-- I mean, even this piece in which I keep 00:04:43.940 --> 00:04:48.260 align:middle line:84% joking about, I'm always like David Buuck, do your writing, 00:04:48.260 --> 00:04:49.760 align:middle line:90% do your writing. 00:04:49.760 --> 00:04:53.180 align:middle line:84% And it's been-- his resistance to doing it has been actually 00:04:53.180 --> 00:04:55.670 align:middle line:84% really, really productive in a way because a lot of his 00:04:55.670 --> 00:04:58.880 align:middle line:84% resistance has challenged me to rethink a lot of the terms 00:04:58.880 --> 00:05:00.680 align:middle line:90% of a certain-- 00:05:00.680 --> 00:05:05.270 align:middle line:84% it's a piece in dialogue in which I'm-- 00:05:05.270 --> 00:05:09.628 align:middle line:84% I keep producing something out of his resistance to doing it. 00:05:09.628 --> 00:05:11.420 align:middle line:84% Which has actually been really interesting. 00:05:11.420 --> 00:05:14.930 align:middle line:84% Because a lot of his resistance has been to some of the things 00:05:14.930 --> 00:05:17.330 align:middle line:84% that I tend to do like some of my tics and so 00:05:17.330 --> 00:05:22.640 align:middle line:84% it's been good to have to think about them in some way. 00:05:22.640 --> 00:05:24.800 align:middle line:84% Like he's like, stop listing names of plants. 00:05:24.800 --> 00:05:26.812 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:05:26.812 --> 00:05:27.770 align:middle line:90% Why are you doing that? 00:05:27.770 --> 00:05:30.150 align:middle line:84% I'm like you're right, I got to stop. 00:05:30.150 --> 00:05:31.760 align:middle line:84% And so, I mean, I would say that would 00:05:31.760 --> 00:05:34.220 align:middle line:84% be the collaborative-- the kind of impulse 00:05:34.220 --> 00:05:36.690 align:middle line:90% around collaboration. 00:05:36.690 --> 00:05:40.820 align:middle line:84% So this shift to prose which you keep talking about-- 00:05:40.820 --> 00:05:43.760 align:middle line:84% I'm interested in this Bouvard and Pécuchet moment. 00:05:43.760 --> 00:05:46.340 align:middle line:84% Here you've got the dialogue maybe as part of that. 00:05:46.340 --> 00:05:49.950 align:middle line:84% It's like you've got these characters on a bench 00:05:49.950 --> 00:05:52.130 align:middle line:90% and I'm interested-- 00:05:52.130 --> 00:05:55.530 align:middle line:90% 00:05:55.530 --> 00:05:57.367 align:middle line:84% is that a response to this need to get 00:05:57.367 --> 00:05:58.950 align:middle line:84% out away from the list and another way 00:05:58.950 --> 00:06:00.330 align:middle line:90% to get information into prose. 00:06:00.330 --> 00:06:01.380 align:middle line:90% Maybe, maybe. 00:06:01.380 --> 00:06:02.280 align:middle line:90% Yeah, maybe it is. 00:06:02.280 --> 00:06:03.630 align:middle line:90% I don't know. 00:06:03.630 --> 00:06:05.400 align:middle line:90% I think it's sad-- 00:06:05.400 --> 00:06:07.530 align:middle line:84% Is it a more dialogical than the lyric which 00:06:07.530 --> 00:06:11.730 align:middle line:90% is traditionally monological? 00:06:11.730 --> 00:06:12.230 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:06:12.230 --> 00:06:13.647 align:middle line:84% Although there's all this, I mean, 00:06:13.647 --> 00:06:16.260 align:middle line:84% there's all these moments when the lyric gets dialogical also. 00:06:16.260 --> 00:06:20.580 align:middle line:90% 00:06:20.580 --> 00:06:21.830 align:middle line:90% I don't quite know what it is. 00:06:21.830 --> 00:06:23.622 align:middle line:84% I mean, when I talk about it being annoying 00:06:23.622 --> 00:06:26.810 align:middle line:84% it's because I'm socially a poet and so it 00:06:26.810 --> 00:06:28.580 align:middle line:90% feels like that's where I talk. 00:06:28.580 --> 00:06:30.950 align:middle line:84% Like I talk, I hang out with poets. 00:06:30.950 --> 00:06:36.500 align:middle line:84% And so I'm scared that I don't write with fiction writers 00:06:36.500 --> 00:06:37.310 align:middle line:90% and so there's-- 00:06:37.310 --> 00:06:39.427 align:middle line:84% I don't have an expertise in it in some way. 00:06:39.427 --> 00:06:40.760 align:middle line:90% But it feels like it's letting-- 00:06:40.760 --> 00:06:43.460 align:middle line:84% I think it might be letting me do some work with ideas that I 00:06:43.460 --> 00:06:46.250 align:middle line:84% can't necessarily get into the poem in the same way. 00:06:46.250 --> 00:06:50.740 align:middle line:84% Right now I don't totally understand it plainly. 00:06:50.740 --> 00:06:52.892 align:middle line:90% Well, that's good I think. 00:06:52.892 --> 00:06:54.350 align:middle line:90% I think it's great. 00:06:54.350 --> 00:06:56.120 align:middle line:84% I'll shift gears a little bit and actually 00:06:56.120 --> 00:06:59.630 align:middle line:84% just go to the question I had prepared which was-- 00:06:59.630 --> 00:07:02.270 align:middle line:84% and I asked it to you-- asked you this question yesterday 00:07:02.270 --> 00:07:04.250 align:middle line:84% about geography and it's as close as I'll 00:07:04.250 --> 00:07:07.730 align:middle line:90% get to a biographical question. 00:07:07.730 --> 00:07:09.800 align:middle line:84% When your work-- go from the Midwest 00:07:09.800 --> 00:07:12.320 align:middle line:84% to islands, West and East, and then 00:07:12.320 --> 00:07:16.138 align:middle line:84% I asked you where you find yourself now geographically 00:07:16.138 --> 00:07:17.930 align:middle line:84% speaking and how that's affecting your work 00:07:17.930 --> 00:07:19.388 align:middle line:84% and you said you didn't really know 00:07:19.388 --> 00:07:21.680 align:middle line:84% or that you didn't get a sense of the Bay Area. 00:07:21.680 --> 00:07:23.420 align:middle line:84% And yet here you've written this piece-- 00:07:23.420 --> 00:07:27.815 align:middle line:84% It's about the border between Berkeley and Oakland. 00:07:27.815 --> 00:07:31.340 align:middle line:84% I guess what I'm asking is, what is the kind of sequence 00:07:31.340 --> 00:07:33.482 align:middle line:90% between geography and writing? 00:07:33.482 --> 00:07:35.690 align:middle line:84% I mean do you have to live in a place for a long time 00:07:35.690 --> 00:07:38.372 align:middle line:84% to start to write about it or do you only start figuring out 00:07:38.372 --> 00:07:40.580 align:middle line:84% what you're writing about a place when you've left it 00:07:40.580 --> 00:07:41.390 align:middle line:90% or how-- 00:07:41.390 --> 00:07:43.550 align:middle line:90% I had to live on it for a while. 00:07:43.550 --> 00:07:46.400 align:middle line:84% And I often-- it's often that I have questions about the place 00:07:46.400 --> 00:07:51.230 align:middle line:84% and the writing about it helps me to understand it. 00:07:51.230 --> 00:07:53.480 align:middle line:84% But I don't-- I don't actually hold that as an ethical 00:07:53.480 --> 00:07:54.050 align:middle line:90% practice. 00:07:54.050 --> 00:07:55.160 align:middle line:84% I don't actually-- I actually think 00:07:55.160 --> 00:07:56.390 align:middle line:84% that people can come in from outside 00:07:56.390 --> 00:07:57.390 align:middle line:90% and write about a place. 00:07:57.390 --> 00:08:03.990 align:middle line:84% And I support all insane speech acts around theory. 00:08:03.990 --> 00:08:05.240 align:middle line:90% I don't like the restrictions. 00:08:05.240 --> 00:08:06.650 align:middle line:84% I actually think you can sometimes learn something 00:08:06.650 --> 00:08:08.420 align:middle line:84% from someone who doesn't live in a place 00:08:08.420 --> 00:08:11.763 align:middle line:84% from writing about it at the same time. 00:08:11.763 --> 00:08:13.430 align:middle line:84% But I mean, the thing about the Bay Area 00:08:13.430 --> 00:08:15.200 align:middle line:84% is it feels like the traditions of the Bay 00:08:15.200 --> 00:08:18.590 align:middle line:84% Area so large I can't quite figure out 00:08:18.590 --> 00:08:19.970 align:middle line:90% how to work through it. 00:08:19.970 --> 00:08:22.790 align:middle line:84% And it's got-- it's got a lot of the same things that felt 00:08:22.790 --> 00:08:24.300 align:middle line:84% so interesting to me about Hawaii, 00:08:24.300 --> 00:08:27.260 align:middle line:84% which was that great natural beauty, , 00:08:27.260 --> 00:08:32.809 align:middle line:84% combined with military combined with environmental destruction. 00:08:32.809 --> 00:08:35.460 align:middle line:90% But they inflect so differently. 00:08:35.460 --> 00:08:40.788 align:middle line:84% I can't quite figure out how to work through them plainly. 00:08:40.788 --> 00:08:41.330 align:middle line:90% I don't know. 00:08:41.330 --> 00:08:43.190 align:middle line:84% I mean, this piece is obviously an attempt 00:08:43.190 --> 00:08:45.470 align:middle line:90% to try and start to do that. 00:08:45.470 --> 00:08:47.570 align:middle line:84% And then it seems to me like what I've tried-- 00:08:47.570 --> 00:08:50.260 align:middle line:84% that's why it's like writing about a median strip. 00:08:50.260 --> 00:08:51.260 align:middle line:90% It's like that kind of-- 00:08:51.260 --> 00:08:52.718 align:middle line:84% I'm going to try to start by trying 00:08:52.718 --> 00:08:55.032 align:middle line:84% to understand the median strip and then see if I can 00:08:55.032 --> 00:08:56.240 align:middle line:90% get somewhere else from that. 00:08:56.240 --> 00:08:58.790 align:middle line:84% I mean, is it so fascinating that you have these 200 00:08:58.790 --> 00:09:02.060 align:middle line:84% pages of works that have been self-published but not yet 00:09:02.060 --> 00:09:06.080 align:middle line:84% collected into one volume where they've been there now. 00:09:06.080 --> 00:09:08.738 align:middle line:84% And it's fascinating to see the work that 00:09:08.738 --> 00:09:11.030 align:middle line:84% was done when you were on the island, and then the work 00:09:11.030 --> 00:09:12.140 align:middle line:84% when you leave the island, and then 00:09:12.140 --> 00:09:13.910 align:middle line:84% it achieves this kind of, one could say, 00:09:13.910 --> 00:09:16.770 align:middle line:84% more cooked or finished form and this connection 00:09:16.770 --> 00:09:22.490 align:middle line:84% everyone with lungs, but I guess that's my process wondering 00:09:22.490 --> 00:09:23.530 align:middle line:90% about that. 00:09:23.530 --> 00:09:27.440 align:middle line:84% But you asked me the question about research last night 00:09:27.440 --> 00:09:30.290 align:middle line:84% and I think my answer was probably 00:09:30.290 --> 00:09:32.480 align:middle line:84% lame so I'm just going to throw it back to you. 00:09:32.480 --> 00:09:36.530 align:middle line:84% Which was, how does that work for you the role 00:09:36.530 --> 00:09:39.380 align:middle line:90% of research in writing? 00:09:39.380 --> 00:09:41.600 align:middle line:84% Actually, I almost start entirely 00:09:41.600 --> 00:09:44.960 align:middle line:84% from an idea I'm going to research in some way. 00:09:44.960 --> 00:09:47.240 align:middle line:84% And I mean, a huge amount of language 00:09:47.240 --> 00:09:50.000 align:middle line:84% in both of those pieces was found or stolen or from-- 00:09:50.000 --> 00:09:51.620 align:middle line:84% and actually, that question that we 00:09:51.620 --> 00:09:53.495 align:middle line:84% were talking about when you were like, what's 00:09:53.495 --> 00:09:56.930 align:middle line:84% the role of the conceptual in the ecopoetry sphere, 00:09:56.930 --> 00:09:59.838 align:middle line:84% in some way, and that hard to answer question which-- 00:09:59.838 --> 00:10:00.380 align:middle line:90% I don't know. 00:10:00.380 --> 00:10:02.960 align:middle line:84% But I mean, that fig tree language 00:10:02.960 --> 00:10:09.360 align:middle line:84% is all from invasive plants of California in some ways. 00:10:09.360 --> 00:10:11.498 align:middle line:84% So it seems like, I mean, I think there's actually 00:10:11.498 --> 00:10:12.790 align:middle line:90% a lot of interesting questions. 00:10:12.790 --> 00:10:14.170 align:middle line:84% There's a woman in the Bay Area who's 00:10:14.170 --> 00:10:15.337 align:middle line:90% doing a really interesting-- 00:10:15.337 --> 00:10:16.870 align:middle line:90% I'm answering this sideways-- 00:10:16.870 --> 00:10:19.078 align:middle line:84% but who does this really interesting conceptual piece 00:10:19.078 --> 00:10:23.980 align:middle line:84% where she's been reading some of the planet, some of the failed 00:10:23.980 --> 00:10:28.970 align:middle line:84% Kyoto accords in a kind of Kenny G style, 00:10:28.970 --> 00:10:34.090 align:middle line:84% which is actually an interesting moment where the politics come 00:10:34.090 --> 00:10:37.570 align:middle line:84% into that conceptual work in a different way. 00:10:37.570 --> 00:10:38.720 align:middle line:90% Although, she's an artist. 00:10:38.720 --> 00:10:44.050 align:middle line:84% She's not a-- she doesn't identify as a poet, finally. 00:10:44.050 --> 00:10:45.520 align:middle line:90% So the research question. 00:10:45.520 --> 00:10:48.790 align:middle line:84% I do a huge amount of researching 00:10:48.790 --> 00:10:53.710 align:middle line:84% of things, of taking of notes, printing things out. 00:10:53.710 --> 00:10:58.060 align:middle line:84% There's often a box of materials that I end up using or not 00:10:58.060 --> 00:10:59.890 align:middle line:90% using in various ways. 00:10:59.890 --> 00:11:02.950 align:middle line:84% But I can't imagine writing otherwise now. 00:11:02.950 --> 00:11:04.390 align:middle line:90% I almost never-- 00:11:04.390 --> 00:11:06.250 align:middle line:84% I've never written from emotion, finally, 00:11:06.250 --> 00:11:09.872 align:middle line:84% I've almost always written from-- 00:11:09.872 --> 00:11:11.080 align:middle line:90% starting from like this idea. 00:11:11.080 --> 00:11:13.180 align:middle line:84% Like I want to write something about the alien abductions 00:11:13.180 --> 00:11:15.430 align:middle line:84% and then going in reading all the literature around it 00:11:15.430 --> 00:11:18.170 align:middle line:90% and writing something out of it. 00:11:18.170 --> 00:11:19.713 align:middle line:84% But it's very emotional sometimes. 00:11:19.713 --> 00:11:21.380 align:middle line:84% I mean, I was thinking about that today. 00:11:21.380 --> 00:11:24.200 align:middle line:84% It's very-- can be moving, not emotional. 00:11:24.200 --> 00:11:26.870 align:middle line:84% But it's-- but there's a song to the-- 00:11:26.870 --> 00:11:29.390 align:middle line:84% Well, I'm interested in how do you build that question then. 00:11:29.390 --> 00:11:32.310 align:middle line:84% I think, is that question that goes back to that first one. 00:11:32.310 --> 00:11:34.700 align:middle line:84% Which is I'm interested in how do you people use writing 00:11:34.700 --> 00:11:36.230 align:middle line:90% to try and build empathy? 00:11:36.230 --> 00:11:40.070 align:middle line:84% And one of the ways that you do that is through the conventions 00:11:40.070 --> 00:11:42.350 align:middle line:90% because the conventions are-- 00:11:42.350 --> 00:11:45.800 align:middle line:84% they've evolved around the inducing 00:11:45.800 --> 00:11:47.000 align:middle line:90% of the emotions in some way. 00:11:47.000 --> 00:11:49.310 align:middle line:84% And I mean, that's what's interesting about the lyric 00:11:49.310 --> 00:11:50.930 align:middle line:90% and the love poem, finally. 00:11:50.930 --> 00:11:56.150 align:middle line:84% Is like there are very old poetic forms that we are-- 00:11:56.150 --> 00:11:57.950 align:middle line:84% in our culture where we're schooled 00:11:57.950 --> 00:12:00.800 align:middle line:84% and having reactions to them and/or having them having them 00:12:00.800 --> 00:12:02.910 align:middle line:90% and do so of a heart feeling. 00:12:02.910 --> 00:12:05.300 align:middle line:84% And that's why they're interesting. 00:12:05.300 --> 00:12:08.060 align:middle line:84% "Don't add to the heartache, circle our heart." 00:12:08.060 --> 00:12:10.880 align:middle line:84% Well, I think this could go on for a long time. 00:12:10.880 --> 00:12:12.860 align:middle line:90% But maybe-- 00:12:12.860 --> 00:12:13.530 align:middle line:90% Thank you. 00:12:13.530 --> 00:12:14.420 align:middle line:90% Continue it. 00:12:14.420 --> 00:12:15.230 align:middle line:90% Be more informally. 00:12:15.230 --> 00:12:16.460 align:middle line:90% Thank you Juliana. 00:12:16.460 --> 00:12:17.270 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:12:17.270 --> 00:12:17.780 align:middle line:90% Thank you. 00:12:17.780 --> 00:12:20.530 align:middle line:90% [APPLAUSE] 00:12:20.530 --> 00:12:25.000 align:middle line:90%