WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.150 align:middle line:90% 00:00:03.150 --> 00:00:06.290 align:middle line:90% Particular. 00:00:06.290 --> 00:00:06.790 align:middle line:90% Yes. 00:00:06.790 --> 00:00:18.330 align:middle line:90% 00:00:18.330 --> 00:00:18.855 align:middle line:90% In Salvador. 00:00:18.855 --> 00:00:37.660 align:middle line:90% 00:00:37.660 --> 00:00:39.250 align:middle line:90% OK. 00:00:39.250 --> 00:00:40.300 align:middle line:90% This is a-- 00:00:40.300 --> 00:00:42.250 align:middle line:84% I'm going to answer your question in the voice 00:00:42.250 --> 00:00:44.230 align:middle line:90% of a campesino man. 00:00:44.230 --> 00:00:46.970 align:middle line:84% This campesino man is about 50 years old. 00:00:46.970 --> 00:00:48.710 align:middle line:90% He has seven children. 00:00:48.710 --> 00:00:52.450 align:middle line:84% And he had to leave El Salvador because he makes cheese. 00:00:52.450 --> 00:00:54.820 align:middle line:84% And the army was accusing him of-- 00:00:54.820 --> 00:00:57.400 align:middle line:84% because the cheese needs no refrigeration, 00:00:57.400 --> 00:00:59.650 align:middle line:84% the army was going to kill him to prevent him 00:00:59.650 --> 00:01:02.830 align:middle line:84% from selling his cheese to anybody who might be fighting 00:01:02.830 --> 00:01:04.420 align:middle line:90% with the guerrillas. 00:01:04.420 --> 00:01:07.210 align:middle line:84% So he had to leave because he made the wrong kind of cheese, 00:01:07.210 --> 00:01:11.860 align:middle line:84% but he explained the election to me in the [INAUDIBLE] words. 00:01:11.860 --> 00:01:13.450 align:middle line:84% And I begin with this little piece. 00:01:13.450 --> 00:01:16.360 align:middle line:84% "We remember the long lines of the last election. 00:01:16.360 --> 00:01:19.090 align:middle line:84% The sun hissing midday heat over the crowds. 00:01:19.090 --> 00:01:21.820 align:middle line:84% And in some villages, the people ducking into polling 00:01:21.820 --> 00:01:23.630 align:middle line:90% places under gunfire. 00:01:23.630 --> 00:01:24.980 align:middle line:90% It was an election. 00:01:24.980 --> 00:01:28.060 align:middle line:84% And people voted in record numbers Yes, 00:01:28.060 --> 00:01:31.660 align:middle line:84% the campesino says, in my village, we voted. 00:01:31.660 --> 00:01:34.150 align:middle line:84% Many people had already left because of fear 00:01:34.150 --> 00:01:35.500 align:middle line:90% and couldn't vote. 00:01:35.500 --> 00:01:39.160 align:middle line:84% A poor man doesn't vote because he has no address. 00:01:39.160 --> 00:01:42.340 align:middle line:84% His shack, what address can it have. 00:01:42.340 --> 00:01:45.010 align:middle line:84% Last time, they said we would be voting for peace. 00:01:45.010 --> 00:01:47.020 align:middle line:84% This is the election you're referring to. 00:01:47.020 --> 00:01:49.960 align:middle line:84% In some places when you vote, they make a mark on your thumb 00:01:49.960 --> 00:01:54.040 align:middle line:84% with ink that doesn't wash off to keep you from voting twice. 00:01:54.040 --> 00:01:57.700 align:middle line:84% They also take the number of your ID card for the ballot. 00:01:57.700 --> 00:02:00.220 align:middle line:84% The National Guard comes to the village and says, 00:02:00.220 --> 00:02:02.770 align:middle line:90% we will know how you vote. 00:02:02.770 --> 00:02:04.810 align:middle line:90% What difference does it make? 00:02:04.810 --> 00:02:08.440 align:middle line:84% If I don't vote, people say I am a subversive. 00:02:08.440 --> 00:02:10.449 align:middle line:84% If our whole village doesn't vote, 00:02:10.449 --> 00:02:13.150 align:middle line:90% that is the end for our village. 00:02:13.150 --> 00:02:14.170 align:middle line:90% Everybody votes." 00:02:14.170 --> 00:02:17.260 align:middle line:90% 00:02:17.260 --> 00:02:20.260 align:middle line:90% He says it better than I could. 00:02:20.260 --> 00:02:21.430 align:middle line:90% That's for that election. 00:02:21.430 --> 00:02:23.080 align:middle line:84% Now, they're saying they're going to have another one. 00:02:23.080 --> 00:02:25.060 align:middle line:84% But now, they're sort of getting edgy, 00:02:25.060 --> 00:02:27.970 align:middle line:84% and nobody really wants to have one in the government now. 00:02:27.970 --> 00:02:30.460 align:middle line:90% So they've postponed it. 00:02:30.460 --> 00:02:35.020 align:middle line:84% I don't expect it to happen anytime soon. 00:02:35.020 --> 00:02:35.520 align:middle line:90% Yes? 00:02:35.520 --> 00:02:39.120 align:middle line:90% 00:02:39.120 --> 00:02:40.420 align:middle line:90% They are involved everywhere. 00:02:40.420 --> 00:02:43.950 align:middle line:84% Yes, but you can't work openly with Amnesty International 00:02:43.950 --> 00:02:47.040 align:middle line:84% in Salvador because of so many executions of Human Rights 00:02:47.040 --> 00:02:50.610 align:middle line:84% Commission people, people who work for human rights. 00:02:50.610 --> 00:02:54.300 align:middle line:84% So they obtain information from trusted sources 00:02:54.300 --> 00:02:56.610 align:middle line:84% and they verify each piece of information 00:02:56.610 --> 00:02:59.820 align:middle line:84% but with three trusted sources in country. 00:02:59.820 --> 00:03:02.580 align:middle line:84% When I was there, I was supplying the information 00:03:02.580 --> 00:03:03.240 align:middle line:90% to Amnesty. 00:03:03.240 --> 00:03:08.250 align:middle line:84% But the government certainly didn't know that at the time. 00:03:08.250 --> 00:03:09.900 align:middle line:90% They do reports. 00:03:09.900 --> 00:03:13.110 align:middle line:84% They are keeping their organization very much 00:03:13.110 --> 00:03:14.760 align:middle line:90% appraised of what's going on. 00:03:14.760 --> 00:03:18.435 align:middle line:84% And their information is very accurate. 00:03:18.435 --> 00:03:18.935 align:middle line:90% Yes? 00:03:18.935 --> 00:03:25.140 align:middle line:90% 00:03:25.140 --> 00:03:28.500 align:middle line:90% Relatively speaking, no. 00:03:28.500 --> 00:03:31.030 align:middle line:90% No, I can't say-- 00:03:31.030 --> 00:03:35.370 align:middle line:84% I am not going to tell you that the present administration 00:03:35.370 --> 00:03:39.420 align:middle line:84% and State Department like me because they don't. 00:03:39.420 --> 00:03:44.340 align:middle line:84% But they don't bother me too much. 00:03:44.340 --> 00:03:48.660 align:middle line:84% And I can't predict the future in terms 00:03:48.660 --> 00:03:51.630 align:middle line:84% of Salvadoran, right wing Salvadorans, 00:03:51.630 --> 00:03:54.090 align:middle line:84% in this country and their retaliatory moves. 00:03:54.090 --> 00:03:58.710 align:middle line:84% But I don't really worry about it too much. 00:03:58.710 --> 00:04:02.970 align:middle line:84% And the minor things that I do notice 00:04:02.970 --> 00:04:06.210 align:middle line:84% are nothing compared to what people go through there. 00:04:06.210 --> 00:04:08.370 align:middle line:90% So it's negligible, actually. 00:04:08.370 --> 00:04:12.180 align:middle line:90% 00:04:12.180 --> 00:04:12.680 align:middle line:90% Yes. 00:04:12.680 --> 00:04:50.610 align:middle line:90% 00:04:50.610 --> 00:04:53.790 align:middle line:84% And traveling in throughout this country in the last year, 00:04:53.790 --> 00:04:57.420 align:middle line:84% I've been amazed at how many are interested. 00:04:57.420 --> 00:04:59.820 align:middle line:84% Because when I first came back from Salvador, no one, 00:04:59.820 --> 00:05:03.340 align:middle line:84% even no one was interested at all. 00:05:03.340 --> 00:05:06.780 align:middle line:84% The other thing is that in terms of the depression, 00:05:06.780 --> 00:05:08.730 align:middle line:90% Monsignor Romero helped-- 00:05:08.730 --> 00:05:12.660 align:middle line:90% taught me a lot about that. 00:05:12.660 --> 00:05:16.980 align:middle line:84% If you simply, with an informed conscience, 00:05:16.980 --> 00:05:19.950 align:middle line:84% do whatever needs to be done and make whatever decision needs 00:05:19.950 --> 00:05:22.980 align:middle line:84% to be made, moment to moment, with no goal, 00:05:22.980 --> 00:05:26.010 align:middle line:84% with no idea that you are going to accomplish something 00:05:26.010 --> 00:05:27.840 align:middle line:84% or that I can't have in mind that I 00:05:27.840 --> 00:05:31.680 align:middle line:84% am going to change Mr. Reagan's mind or something like that, 00:05:31.680 --> 00:05:34.140 align:middle line:84% if I think that, I'm going to set myself up 00:05:34.140 --> 00:05:37.080 align:middle line:90% to be discouraged. 00:05:37.080 --> 00:05:40.500 align:middle line:84% And then, I might feel that it wasn't 00:05:40.500 --> 00:05:42.570 align:middle line:90% worth it to do this work. 00:05:42.570 --> 00:05:46.650 align:middle line:84% If I simply do it for its own sake in a moment 00:05:46.650 --> 00:05:51.690 align:middle line:84% because it's correct, right, whatever, then it's fine. 00:05:51.690 --> 00:05:54.300 align:middle line:90% You avoid despair. 00:05:54.300 --> 00:05:55.940 align:middle line:90% And you also avoid hope. 00:05:55.940 --> 00:06:02.670 align:middle line:84% And both of them are probably not necessary to the job. 00:06:02.670 --> 00:06:04.260 align:middle line:90% And I don't know. 00:06:04.260 --> 00:06:11.040 align:middle line:84% I think that one individual can do a lot here, especially here. 00:06:11.040 --> 00:06:13.650 align:middle line:90% I do believe that. 00:06:13.650 --> 00:06:20.260 align:middle line:90% They sleep-- Yes. 00:06:20.260 --> 00:06:22.430 align:middle line:90% That's what I focus on, anyway. 00:06:22.430 --> 00:06:22.930 align:middle line:90% Well. 00:06:22.930 --> 00:06:27.470 align:middle line:90% 00:06:27.470 --> 00:06:27.970 align:middle line:90% Yes. 00:06:27.970 --> 00:06:34.530 align:middle line:90% 00:06:34.530 --> 00:06:35.040 align:middle line:90% No. 00:06:35.040 --> 00:06:37.830 align:middle line:90% [CHUCKLES] I don't have either. 00:06:37.830 --> 00:06:41.550 align:middle line:84% I'm not a pessimist or an optimist. 00:06:41.550 --> 00:06:42.090 align:middle line:90% I'm not. 00:06:42.090 --> 00:06:43.920 align:middle line:90% I don't have it anymore. 00:06:43.920 --> 00:06:46.988 align:middle line:90% 00:06:46.988 --> 00:06:47.530 align:middle line:90% I don't know. 00:06:47.530 --> 00:06:50.720 align:middle line:90% 00:06:50.720 --> 00:06:51.220 align:middle line:90% Yes. 00:06:51.220 --> 00:06:55.800 align:middle line:90% 00:06:55.800 --> 00:06:59.040 align:middle line:84% I studied Spanish in college for one year. 00:06:59.040 --> 00:07:03.390 align:middle line:84% I studied it in graduate school, and then I learned the rest 00:07:03.390 --> 00:07:07.950 align:middle line:84% very fast on my feet in country and some in Spain 00:07:07.950 --> 00:07:09.690 align:middle line:90% before I went to Salvador. 00:07:09.690 --> 00:07:14.290 align:middle line:84% And then, I was first in Salvador five years ago, 00:07:14.290 --> 00:07:15.120 align:middle line:90% six years ago. 00:07:15.120 --> 00:07:17.550 align:middle line:84% And many of my friends are in exile now. 00:07:17.550 --> 00:07:21.730 align:middle line:84% And they don't let me speak English with them so on. 00:07:21.730 --> 00:07:24.030 align:middle line:90% After a while you can-- 00:07:24.030 --> 00:07:24.530 align:middle line:90% yes. 00:07:24.530 --> 00:07:30.820 align:middle line:90% 00:07:30.820 --> 00:07:31.320 align:middle line:90% Yes. 00:07:31.320 --> 00:07:35.000 align:middle line:90% 00:07:35.000 --> 00:07:40.250 align:middle line:84% There-- yes, there are Charlie Clements, 00:07:40.250 --> 00:07:43.730 align:middle line:84% three tours of duty in Vietnam as a fighter pilot, 00:07:43.730 --> 00:07:46.970 align:middle line:84% two years in the jungle in Salvador 00:07:46.970 --> 00:07:50.570 align:middle line:84% in the mountains of Guazapa treating refugees 00:07:50.570 --> 00:07:53.960 align:middle line:84% and anybody else who was wounded. 00:07:53.960 --> 00:07:56.700 align:middle line:84% Two years in a combat zone, Charlie Clements, MD, 00:07:56.700 --> 00:07:57.950 align:middle line:90% is a wonderful man. 00:07:57.950 --> 00:07:59.108 align:middle line:90% I mean, I could name-- 00:07:59.108 --> 00:08:00.650 align:middle line:84% there's not too many Americans that I 00:08:00.650 --> 00:08:05.600 align:middle line:84% know-- there's four Americans fighting with the guerrillas. 00:08:05.600 --> 00:08:08.330 align:middle line:84% Two who fought with the guerrillas, died doing that. 00:08:08.330 --> 00:08:12.350 align:middle line:84% So there was six altogether that I know of. 00:08:12.350 --> 00:08:17.100 align:middle line:84% That part of the work, they have Americans. 00:08:17.100 --> 00:08:21.320 align:middle line:84% You run into Americans in strange places. 00:08:21.320 --> 00:08:24.590 align:middle line:84% One man who's set up a beautiful clinic way out in the middle 00:08:24.590 --> 00:08:28.910 align:middle line:84% of nowhere in Mexico having nothing, no materials 00:08:28.910 --> 00:08:29.510 align:middle line:90% or anything. 00:08:29.510 --> 00:08:32.360 align:middle line:90% And he managed to treat people. 00:08:32.360 --> 00:08:36.080 align:middle line:84% And his clinic was two days by mule to get to it, 00:08:36.080 --> 00:08:40.049 align:middle line:84% so you run into people here and there. 00:08:40.049 --> 00:08:40.549 align:middle line:90% Yeah? 00:08:40.549 --> 00:08:52.980 align:middle line:90% 00:08:52.980 --> 00:08:56.550 align:middle line:84% It was very dangerous during January, February, 00:08:56.550 --> 00:08:59.410 align:middle line:90% and March 1980. 00:08:59.410 --> 00:09:01.380 align:middle line:90% I'm very lucky. 00:09:01.380 --> 00:09:06.870 align:middle line:84% I never shot anyone, but I had a gun once in a while. 00:09:06.870 --> 00:09:11.010 align:middle line:84% And one time only because an old man, 70 years 00:09:11.010 --> 00:09:14.230 align:middle line:90% old with leukemia, was with me. 00:09:14.230 --> 00:09:16.810 align:middle line:90% And he was almost dead. 00:09:16.810 --> 00:09:19.950 align:middle line:84% He was a professor and scholar of political science, 00:09:19.950 --> 00:09:21.270 align:middle line:90% and he was on the death list. 00:09:21.270 --> 00:09:45.378 align:middle line:90% 00:09:45.378 --> 00:09:47.700 align:middle line:90% I'm glad. 00:09:47.700 --> 00:09:50.340 align:middle line:90% That's what it's from. 00:09:50.340 --> 00:09:50.840 align:middle line:90% Yes. 00:09:50.840 --> 00:10:06.160 align:middle line:90% 00:10:06.160 --> 00:10:09.460 align:middle line:84% Well, I had a little tape recorder 00:10:09.460 --> 00:10:13.030 align:middle line:84% that I used sometimes as it turns out dangerously, 00:10:13.030 --> 00:10:14.290 align:middle line:90% foolishly. 00:10:14.290 --> 00:10:18.640 align:middle line:84% And I'd use my memory, and I also wrote on my arms 00:10:18.640 --> 00:10:22.745 align:middle line:84% and on my legs, in different parts of my body, 00:10:22.745 --> 00:10:24.370 align:middle line:84% and then I go home and copy it before I 00:10:24.370 --> 00:10:28.390 align:middle line:84% took a shower, and things like that, and in my mind, 00:10:28.390 --> 00:10:29.665 align:middle line:90% and sometimes papers. 00:10:29.665 --> 00:10:32.980 align:middle line:90% 00:10:32.980 --> 00:10:38.140 align:middle line:84% It varied, but I used my own skin a lot. 00:10:38.140 --> 00:10:40.330 align:middle line:84% And I had to use a pen that wouldn't wash off 00:10:40.330 --> 00:10:43.090 align:middle line:84% very easily, so it wouldn't come off. 00:10:43.090 --> 00:10:49.600 align:middle line:84% And then sometimes, it was very hard to get all the sentences 00:10:49.600 --> 00:10:50.680 align:middle line:90% off my skin. 00:10:50.680 --> 00:10:53.330 align:middle line:90% 00:10:53.330 --> 00:10:53.830 align:middle line:90% Yes. 00:10:53.830 --> 00:10:59.340 align:middle line:90% 00:10:59.340 --> 00:11:02.520 align:middle line:84% I was put on Major [INAUDIBLE] death list, 00:11:02.520 --> 00:11:04.650 align:middle line:90% and they made four attempts. 00:11:04.650 --> 00:11:07.740 align:middle line:84% Two of them because I was with other people on the list, 00:11:07.740 --> 00:11:10.860 align:middle line:90% and two on my own. 00:11:10.860 --> 00:11:14.070 align:middle line:84% And I was very lucky and met with Monsignor Romero 00:11:14.070 --> 00:11:17.640 align:middle line:84% the week before he died for three 00:11:17.640 --> 00:11:22.260 align:middle line:84% hours in the kitchen of the nuns at Divine Providence Hospital. 00:11:22.260 --> 00:11:23.520 align:middle line:90% And he persuaded me. 00:11:23.520 --> 00:11:25.710 align:middle line:90% He said, you have so much. 00:11:25.710 --> 00:11:27.840 align:middle line:84% Now, you have to go back to the United States 00:11:27.840 --> 00:11:32.080 align:middle line:84% and write and talk whatever you can do, whatever you like. 00:11:32.080 --> 00:11:34.500 align:middle line:84% And I said, no, I just need a little bit more time, 00:11:34.500 --> 00:11:35.220 align:middle line:90% a few more days. 00:11:35.220 --> 00:11:37.440 align:middle line:84% You get into a mentality, and you can't even 00:11:37.440 --> 00:11:40.080 align:middle line:84% see the situation clearly that you're in. 00:11:40.080 --> 00:11:42.212 align:middle line:84% You just propelled forward like that. 00:11:42.212 --> 00:11:44.670 align:middle line:84% And he said, no, you're going home, and went back and forth 00:11:44.670 --> 00:11:45.790 align:middle line:90% and back and forth like that. 00:11:45.790 --> 00:11:46.980 align:middle line:84% And I said, why don't you go out? 00:11:46.980 --> 00:11:47.910 align:middle line:90% You're on the list. 00:11:47.910 --> 00:11:50.760 align:middle line:84% He said, look, my place is with my people now, 00:11:50.760 --> 00:11:52.020 align:middle line:90% and your place is with yours. 00:11:52.020 --> 00:11:54.180 align:middle line:84% And you have to get out of here now. 00:11:54.180 --> 00:11:57.720 align:middle line:84% So he arranged for me to be taken out of the country. 00:11:57.720 --> 00:12:00.480 align:middle line:84% And he was killed eight days later. 00:12:00.480 --> 00:12:04.770 align:middle line:90% 00:12:04.770 --> 00:12:05.270 align:middle line:90% Yes. 00:12:05.270 --> 00:12:21.360 align:middle line:90% 00:12:21.360 --> 00:12:22.410 align:middle line:90% It's difficult. Yeah. 00:12:22.410 --> 00:12:41.530 align:middle line:90% 00:12:41.530 --> 00:12:45.640 align:middle line:84% OK, first of all, there are not three or four or five groups. 00:12:45.640 --> 00:12:49.960 align:middle line:84% There is the government which is the military and whatever 00:12:49.960 --> 00:12:52.510 align:middle line:84% civilians they're allowing to sit with them at any given 00:12:52.510 --> 00:12:56.620 align:middle line:84% time, and that hasn't changed all of this century. 00:12:56.620 --> 00:12:57.490 align:middle line:90% OK. 00:12:57.490 --> 00:13:02.260 align:middle line:84% And then, there is what's called the civilian right, 00:13:02.260 --> 00:13:03.610 align:middle line:90% and they have-- 00:13:03.610 --> 00:13:06.790 align:middle line:84% most of the wealthy people live in Miami, Houston, 00:13:06.790 --> 00:13:08.080 align:middle line:90% and New Orleans now. 00:13:08.080 --> 00:13:09.580 align:middle line:90% They don't live in El Salvador. 00:13:09.580 --> 00:13:11.920 align:middle line:84% And there are certain civilians who 00:13:11.920 --> 00:13:14.050 align:middle line:84% are in the country, who are very right wing 00:13:14.050 --> 00:13:16.300 align:middle line:84% and have strong ties with the military. 00:13:16.300 --> 00:13:18.580 align:middle line:84% And they work together with the military. 00:13:18.580 --> 00:13:20.080 align:middle line:90% But they have the same. 00:13:20.080 --> 00:13:22.540 align:middle line:90% They're locked together. 00:13:22.540 --> 00:13:25.690 align:middle line:84% And then, there is the population. 00:13:25.690 --> 00:13:29.320 align:middle line:84% There are those who don't know what they should support. 00:13:29.320 --> 00:13:31.600 align:middle line:84% There are those who support the guerrillas. 00:13:31.600 --> 00:13:34.635 align:middle line:84% There are those who want the war to end, 00:13:34.635 --> 00:13:36.010 align:middle line:84% and they want the government out, 00:13:36.010 --> 00:13:39.340 align:middle line:84% but they're not sure what they want to take its place. 00:13:39.340 --> 00:13:43.240 align:middle line:84% The population at large in the majority 00:13:43.240 --> 00:13:44.980 align:middle line:90% opposes the government. 00:13:44.980 --> 00:13:47.290 align:middle line:84% That does not mean they are united on what 00:13:47.290 --> 00:13:49.360 align:middle line:90% they want to have replaced it. 00:13:49.360 --> 00:13:50.800 align:middle line:90% Do you see what I'm saying? 00:13:50.800 --> 00:13:57.700 align:middle line:84% In terms of the solution, it really 00:13:57.700 --> 00:14:00.640 align:middle line:84% doesn't matter what I tell you because 00:14:00.640 --> 00:14:04.870 align:middle line:84% the present administration is seeking a military victory 00:14:04.870 --> 00:14:06.340 align:middle line:90% in El Salvador. 00:14:06.340 --> 00:14:09.010 align:middle line:84% So we will cope with that for a moment. 00:14:09.010 --> 00:14:12.370 align:middle line:84% And I will tell you that a cold assessment of the military 00:14:12.370 --> 00:14:16.720 align:middle line:84% situation in El Salvador indicates that the Salvadoran 00:14:16.720 --> 00:14:22.270 align:middle line:84% government cannot win a military victory without extensive help 00:14:22.270 --> 00:14:25.990 align:middle line:84% from the United States much more than we've given them. 00:14:25.990 --> 00:14:28.820 align:middle line:84% I will tell you one of the reasons I'm saying that. 00:14:28.820 --> 00:14:30.820 align:middle line:84% Do you remember when all the Salvadoran soldiers 00:14:30.820 --> 00:14:34.420 align:middle line:84% were brought here to Fort Bragg and Fort Benning for training? 00:14:34.420 --> 00:14:39.160 align:middle line:84% 85% of the first group of 1,000 are no longer in the military. 00:14:39.160 --> 00:14:41.740 align:middle line:84% 57% of every soldier trained here 00:14:41.740 --> 00:14:43.480 align:middle line:90% is no longer in the military. 00:14:43.480 --> 00:14:46.390 align:middle line:84% He is dead, or he is wounded, or he has deserted, 00:14:46.390 --> 00:14:49.360 align:middle line:90% or he is not re-enlisted. 00:14:49.360 --> 00:14:52.930 align:middle line:84% 348 of the soldiers trained at Fort Benning and Fort Bragg 00:14:52.930 --> 00:14:55.240 align:middle line:84% are now fighting with the guerrillas. 00:14:55.240 --> 00:14:56.350 align:middle line:90% Why is this? 00:14:56.350 --> 00:14:58.490 align:middle line:84% The soldier gets out of the military. 00:14:58.490 --> 00:15:00.100 align:middle line:90% He goes back to his village. 00:15:00.100 --> 00:15:03.820 align:middle line:84% Half of his village is dead because Social Security forces 00:15:03.820 --> 00:15:04.930 align:middle line:90% move through there. 00:15:04.930 --> 00:15:06.340 align:middle line:90% He has no job. 00:15:06.340 --> 00:15:07.660 align:middle line:90% He has no money. 00:15:07.660 --> 00:15:09.310 align:middle line:90% He has no hope. 00:15:09.310 --> 00:15:11.480 align:middle line:90% He has no future. 00:15:11.480 --> 00:15:13.690 align:middle line:84% It's the same as when he went in. 00:15:13.690 --> 00:15:16.340 align:middle line:84% And he is risking his life, and for whom? 00:15:16.340 --> 00:15:19.000 align:middle line:84% So he gets a little discouraged, and he goes over 00:15:19.000 --> 00:15:20.330 align:middle line:90% to the other side. 00:15:20.330 --> 00:15:24.410 align:middle line:84% So we're training guerrillas too. 00:15:24.410 --> 00:15:24.910 align:middle line:90% Now-- 00:15:24.910 --> 00:15:25.990 align:middle line:90% [APPLAUSE] 00:15:25.990 --> 00:15:30.640 align:middle line:84% The situation is that you use your imaginations a little bit 00:15:30.640 --> 00:15:33.460 align:middle line:84% about what it will take to achieve a military victory 00:15:33.460 --> 00:15:36.895 align:middle line:90% in that situation. 00:15:36.895 --> 00:15:38.020 align:middle line:90% That's what you have to do. 00:15:38.020 --> 00:15:39.520 align:middle line:84% Now, I will tell you something else. 00:15:39.520 --> 00:15:45.700 align:middle line:84% 30% of the American-aid money is stolen by the high command 00:15:45.700 --> 00:15:47.380 align:middle line:90% of the Salvadoran army. 00:15:47.380 --> 00:15:48.970 align:middle line:90% They are like a mafia. 00:15:48.970 --> 00:15:52.460 align:middle line:84% They have been stealing 30% of the aid for years. 00:15:52.460 --> 00:15:54.220 align:middle line:84% That's why the president of Salvador 00:15:54.220 --> 00:15:59.350 align:middle line:84% can retire with $10 million in a New York bank on a $200 a month 00:15:59.350 --> 00:16:02.320 align:middle line:90% salary as a Colonel. 00:16:02.320 --> 00:16:04.750 align:middle line:84% To be president or one of the ministers of Salvador 00:16:04.750 --> 00:16:07.210 align:middle line:84% is one of the most lucrative business opportunities 00:16:07.210 --> 00:16:08.320 align:middle line:90% in the hemisphere. 00:16:08.320 --> 00:16:11.680 align:middle line:84% Salvadoran Officer Corps doesn't own any coffee. 00:16:11.680 --> 00:16:14.380 align:middle line:84% They don't own any land in El Salvador. 00:16:14.380 --> 00:16:19.300 align:middle line:84% They own their job as the American's stability force 00:16:19.300 --> 00:16:22.850 align:middle line:84% in that particular part of the world. 00:16:22.850 --> 00:16:25.750 align:middle line:84% So how much money are we going to have to give them? 00:16:25.750 --> 00:16:29.410 align:middle line:84% Well, I was sitting in the Congress in April 2, 1981. 00:16:29.410 --> 00:16:31.480 align:middle line:84% The first $5.5 million was approved 00:16:31.480 --> 00:16:33.790 align:middle line:84% to be sent military aid to Salvador. 00:16:33.790 --> 00:16:39.160 align:middle line:84% Since that time we have sent $1 billion to El Salvador. 00:16:39.160 --> 00:16:41.740 align:middle line:90% How much is it going to cost? 00:16:41.740 --> 00:16:45.100 align:middle line:84% Are the same conditions of poverty and repression becoming 00:16:45.100 --> 00:16:46.300 align:middle line:90% true in Honduras? 00:16:46.300 --> 00:16:49.240 align:middle line:84% Have they been true in Guatemala for some time? 00:16:49.240 --> 00:16:51.070 align:middle line:90% What is going on in Nicaragua? 00:16:51.070 --> 00:16:56.600 align:middle line:84% You must put this all together and use your own logic 00:16:56.600 --> 00:17:00.340 align:middle line:90% and your own imagination. 00:17:00.340 --> 00:17:02.920 align:middle line:84% Despite the little information that you're given, 00:17:02.920 --> 00:17:05.650 align:middle line:84% and you are given very little, you can-- 00:17:05.650 --> 00:17:08.480 align:middle line:90% you know what's going on. 00:17:08.480 --> 00:17:08.980 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:17:08.980 --> 00:17:20.310 align:middle line:90% 00:17:20.310 --> 00:17:21.810 align:middle line:84% First of all, I don't think that all 00:17:21.810 --> 00:17:25.800 align:middle line:84% of the Sandinista leadership is as intelligent and enlightened 00:17:25.800 --> 00:17:31.000 align:middle line:84% as it might be important to be in this period. 00:17:31.000 --> 00:17:34.230 align:middle line:84% And there are Salvadorans who are a very high caliber 00:17:34.230 --> 00:17:37.830 align:middle line:90% as are some of the Sandinistas. 00:17:37.830 --> 00:17:40.860 align:middle line:90% But the situation is not-- 00:17:40.860 --> 00:17:44.550 align:middle line:84% the conditions are not very favorable for the development 00:17:44.550 --> 00:17:52.560 align:middle line:84% of stable economic structures in any particular order 00:17:52.560 --> 00:18:00.580 align:middle line:84% or political democracy in Salvador at this time. 00:18:00.580 --> 00:18:02.520 align:middle line:90% So it would be difficult to say. 00:18:02.520 --> 00:18:04.560 align:middle line:84% One of the results of this war has 00:18:04.560 --> 00:18:09.600 align:middle line:84% been that almost all of the political minds 00:18:09.600 --> 00:18:15.210 align:middle line:84% were forced to either become guerrillas or leave the country 00:18:15.210 --> 00:18:17.550 align:middle line:90% or they were assassinated. 00:18:17.550 --> 00:18:19.240 align:middle line:90% Many were assassinated. 00:18:19.240 --> 00:18:23.430 align:middle line:84% So the country is a bit depleted at the moment. 00:18:23.430 --> 00:18:24.633 align:middle line:90% I can't make predictions. 00:18:24.633 --> 00:18:25.800 align:middle line:90% I don't have a crystal ball. 00:18:25.800 --> 00:18:28.590 align:middle line:84% There are five guerrilla groups, three major ones 00:18:28.590 --> 00:18:29.640 align:middle line:90% and two minor ones. 00:18:29.640 --> 00:18:31.500 align:middle line:84% They are fighting amongst each other right 00:18:31.500 --> 00:18:33.780 align:middle line:84% now over the issue of negotiations 00:18:33.780 --> 00:18:38.370 align:middle line:84% and how hardline they want to be and all of that. 00:18:38.370 --> 00:18:40.620 align:middle line:84% There are groups that are much better than others 00:18:40.620 --> 00:18:42.660 align:middle line:90% in those five. 00:18:42.660 --> 00:18:47.280 align:middle line:84% They differ amongst themselves, very, very strongly 00:18:47.280 --> 00:18:49.560 align:middle line:90% on the issue of Soviet-- 00:18:49.560 --> 00:18:52.380 align:middle line:84% friendliness to the Soviet Union, Soviet alignment. 00:18:52.380 --> 00:18:54.850 align:middle line:84% They differ on a number of things. 00:18:54.850 --> 00:18:57.660 align:middle line:84% So they are not in themselves united 00:18:57.660 --> 00:19:00.105 align:middle line:90% in certain ideological respects. 00:19:00.105 --> 00:19:06.750 align:middle line:90% 00:19:06.750 --> 00:19:09.080 align:middle line:84% There's one group that's very capable in terms 00:19:09.080 --> 00:19:12.000 align:middle line:90% of political thinking. 00:19:12.000 --> 00:19:15.740 align:middle line:84% Another group is very capable militarily, and so on and so 00:19:15.740 --> 00:19:16.240 align:middle line:90% on. 00:19:16.240 --> 00:19:19.900 align:middle line:84% They all have their separate strengths. 00:19:19.900 --> 00:19:20.400 align:middle line:90% Yes. 00:19:20.400 --> 00:19:24.550 align:middle line:90% 00:19:24.550 --> 00:19:26.470 align:middle line:90% Yes. 00:19:26.470 --> 00:19:32.170 align:middle line:84% I think it is a wonderful, evocative account of what 00:19:32.170 --> 00:19:35.530 align:middle line:84% it would feel like to be an American woman who spends 00:19:35.530 --> 00:19:36.745 align:middle line:90% two weeks in El Salvador. 00:19:36.745 --> 00:19:47.560 align:middle line:90% 00:19:47.560 --> 00:19:50.420 align:middle line:90% Did I see something bad? 00:19:50.420 --> 00:19:52.870 align:middle line:90% You can quote me. 00:19:52.870 --> 00:19:53.680 align:middle line:90% It's all right. 00:19:53.680 --> 00:19:57.010 align:middle line:90% 00:19:57.010 --> 00:19:57.880 align:middle line:90% Yes, Michael. 00:19:57.880 --> 00:20:13.600 align:middle line:90% 00:20:13.600 --> 00:20:19.450 align:middle line:84% Cuba is supplying aid via Nicaragua approximately-- 00:20:19.450 --> 00:20:20.710 align:middle line:90% I'm going to guess for you. 00:20:20.710 --> 00:20:21.210 align:middle line:90% OK. 00:20:21.210 --> 00:20:22.490 align:middle line:90% I make an educated guess. 00:20:22.490 --> 00:20:25.010 align:middle line:90% But it is my estimation. 00:20:25.010 --> 00:20:27.670 align:middle line:84% It's approximately 1/16th of what 00:20:27.670 --> 00:20:31.090 align:middle line:84% we are giving the Salvadoran government to fight back 00:20:31.090 --> 00:20:32.570 align:middle line:90% against them. 00:20:32.570 --> 00:20:36.740 align:middle line:84% They also have quite a network within El Salvador 00:20:36.740 --> 00:20:39.850 align:middle line:84% where they build homemade claymores and things. 00:20:39.850 --> 00:20:42.130 align:middle line:84% They have cottage industry weapons. 00:20:42.130 --> 00:20:43.630 align:middle line:90% They make things like-- 00:20:43.630 --> 00:20:45.640 align:middle line:84% they use silica and various things 00:20:45.640 --> 00:20:48.010 align:middle line:84% and wrap masking tape around it, and I 00:20:48.010 --> 00:20:53.800 align:middle line:84% mean, very effective, but homemade kinds of things. 00:20:53.800 --> 00:20:58.120 align:middle line:84% And also, they had a $27 million war chest 00:20:58.120 --> 00:21:00.520 align:middle line:90% when they started out. 00:21:00.520 --> 00:21:04.570 align:middle line:84% And they got that by certain of the small groups 00:21:04.570 --> 00:21:07.180 align:middle line:84% kidnapping businessmen and wealthy Salvadorans 00:21:07.180 --> 00:21:10.300 align:middle line:90% and holding them for ransoms. 00:21:10.300 --> 00:21:14.800 align:middle line:84% Of the many kidnappings, they murdered one victim. 00:21:14.800 --> 00:21:16.360 align:middle line:90% They did do that. 00:21:16.360 --> 00:21:18.280 align:middle line:90% They accumulated $27 million. 00:21:18.280 --> 00:21:21.020 align:middle line:84% And they bought arms on the international arms market. 00:21:21.020 --> 00:21:23.440 align:middle line:84% Many of the arms they bought in the United States 00:21:23.440 --> 00:21:26.740 align:middle line:90% in Texas and California. 00:21:26.740 --> 00:21:30.280 align:middle line:84% If you have the money, you can buy any weapon produced 00:21:30.280 --> 00:21:33.580 align:middle line:90% in any country in any quantity. 00:21:33.580 --> 00:21:36.460 align:middle line:84% And just because you find a weapon in El Salvador 00:21:36.460 --> 00:21:38.500 align:middle line:84% and it's maybe a Kalashnikov, that 00:21:38.500 --> 00:21:41.830 align:middle line:84% does not tell you who sold it to whom 00:21:41.830 --> 00:21:44.200 align:middle line:90% or even where it was produced. 00:21:44.200 --> 00:21:48.160 align:middle line:84% The international arms market is an open bazaar 00:21:48.160 --> 00:21:49.900 align:middle line:90% in both senses of the word. 00:21:49.900 --> 00:21:51.790 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:21:51.790 --> 00:21:56.650 align:middle line:84% The only thing you can't buy is an SS-20 or a MX 00:21:56.650 --> 00:22:01.063 align:middle line:90% or a D5 or that kind of thing. 00:22:01.063 --> 00:22:02.980 align:middle line:84% I don't think they're selling tridents either, 00:22:02.980 --> 00:22:04.540 align:middle line:90% but you can buy anything. 00:22:04.540 --> 00:22:08.680 align:middle line:84% You can buy submachine guns, that kind of thing, anything, 00:22:08.680 --> 00:22:09.940 align:middle line:90% grenade launchers. 00:22:09.940 --> 00:22:11.710 align:middle line:90% I'll tell you a little story. 00:22:11.710 --> 00:22:16.090 align:middle line:84% In 1976, the chief of staff of the Salvadoran armed forces 00:22:16.090 --> 00:22:19.030 align:middle line:84% was arrested in Mount Kisco, New York, 00:22:19.030 --> 00:22:22.750 align:middle line:84% for attempting to sell 10,000 machine guns to men 00:22:22.750 --> 00:22:25.900 align:middle line:84% he thought were members of the American mafia 00:22:25.900 --> 00:22:29.290 align:middle line:84% and who were in effect were Mount Kisco 00:22:29.290 --> 00:22:31.810 align:middle line:84% local police in plainclothes in rented 00:22:31.810 --> 00:22:34.960 align:middle line:84% Cadillacs from the local Cadillac dealer. 00:22:34.960 --> 00:22:37.900 align:middle line:84% They videotaped Rodriguez boasting 00:22:37.900 --> 00:22:40.810 align:middle line:84% that he, as chief of staff of the armed forces, 00:22:40.810 --> 00:22:44.530 align:middle line:84% could sell them the following year $2.5 million worth 00:22:44.530 --> 00:22:47.890 align:middle line:84% of military hardware, including sten guns, rocket 00:22:47.890 --> 00:22:49.540 align:middle line:90% launchers, and tanks. 00:22:49.540 --> 00:22:52.060 align:middle line:84% Guess where he was going to get that equipment? 00:22:52.060 --> 00:22:53.980 align:middle line:84% The 10,000 machine guns weren't even 00:22:53.980 --> 00:22:56.920 align:middle line:84% out of their crates in the United States. 00:22:56.920 --> 00:22:59.500 align:middle line:84% So because of the videotapes to the embarrassment 00:22:59.500 --> 00:23:01.670 align:middle line:84% of our own intelligence agencies, 00:23:01.670 --> 00:23:04.210 align:middle line:84% he was tried and convicted by the community 00:23:04.210 --> 00:23:07.060 align:middle line:84% of Mount Kisco, New York, and sentenced 00:23:07.060 --> 00:23:08.950 align:middle line:84% to two consecutive five year prison 00:23:08.950 --> 00:23:10.870 align:middle line:90% terms in upstate New York. 00:23:10.870 --> 00:23:14.260 align:middle line:84% He served two years of the 10 years, and he was deported. 00:23:14.260 --> 00:23:16.180 align:middle line:84% And he now lives in a very nice house 00:23:16.180 --> 00:23:18.160 align:middle line:84% in a colonia outside San Salvador, 00:23:18.160 --> 00:23:20.470 align:middle line:90% and he drives a Mercedes Benz. 00:23:20.470 --> 00:23:22.930 align:middle line:84% His commanding officer was the minister of Defense 00:23:22.930 --> 00:23:25.570 align:middle line:84% who would have had to have not only known about the deal 00:23:25.570 --> 00:23:29.080 align:middle line:84% and approved it but actually would have gotten a cut of it. 00:23:29.080 --> 00:23:33.370 align:middle line:84% He became El Salvador's next president. 00:23:33.370 --> 00:23:34.180 align:middle line:90% Romero. 00:23:34.180 --> 00:23:36.490 align:middle line:84% He was overthrown in the '79 coup. 00:23:36.490 --> 00:23:38.875 align:middle line:84% Now, all of this has been going on for a long time. 00:23:38.875 --> 00:23:40.750 align:middle line:84% I could tell you other stories, but I thought 00:23:40.750 --> 00:23:42.790 align:middle line:90% that was sort of the funniest. 00:23:42.790 --> 00:23:44.590 align:middle line:84% If you would like a little education, 00:23:44.590 --> 00:23:46.300 align:middle line:84% call the Mount Kisco local police 00:23:46.300 --> 00:23:48.520 align:middle line:84% and ask for the Lieutenant [INAUDIBLE] 00:23:48.520 --> 00:23:51.040 align:middle line:84% and ask him to tell you about this story. 00:23:51.040 --> 00:23:54.760 align:middle line:84% Then, call the State Department, Salvador desk, Pete Romero, 00:23:54.760 --> 00:23:56.680 align:middle line:84% and say to him, what can you tell me 00:23:56.680 --> 00:23:59.273 align:middle line:84% about-- what do you have on this? 00:23:59.273 --> 00:24:01.690 align:middle line:84% What can you tell me about-- what's the State Department's 00:24:01.690 --> 00:24:02.950 align:middle line:90% view of that case? 00:24:02.950 --> 00:24:04.570 align:middle line:84% And they will tell you that they don't 00:24:04.570 --> 00:24:07.300 align:middle line:90% have files going back that far. 00:24:07.300 --> 00:24:09.440 align:middle line:84% Then, you can call the Salvadoran embassy, 00:24:09.440 --> 00:24:15.310 align:middle line:84% ask them if Rodriguez was ever prosecuted for his attempt 00:24:15.310 --> 00:24:16.710 align:middle line:90% to do this. 00:24:16.710 --> 00:24:18.835 align:middle line:84% And that will give you everything you need to know. 00:24:18.835 --> 00:24:22.130 align:middle line:90% 00:24:22.130 --> 00:24:22.630 align:middle line:90% Yes. 00:24:22.630 --> 00:24:32.500 align:middle line:90% 00:24:32.500 --> 00:24:39.070 align:middle line:84% The Kissinger report will most likely 00:24:39.070 --> 00:24:45.280 align:middle line:84% give a academic credibility to the Reagan fiasco. 00:24:45.280 --> 00:24:46.360 align:middle line:90% That's what I think. 00:24:46.360 --> 00:24:49.150 align:middle line:84% In Congress, the main thing that I worked on 00:24:49.150 --> 00:24:52.150 align:middle line:84% over the last year and a half was the Boland Amendment 00:24:52.150 --> 00:24:55.990 align:middle line:84% to cut off funding to covert operations against Nicaragua. 00:24:55.990 --> 00:24:58.690 align:middle line:90% 00:24:58.690 --> 00:25:01.150 align:middle line:84% We have to do is wait until budgets come up. 00:25:01.150 --> 00:25:05.110 align:middle line:84% So I also worked on the three human rights certifications 00:25:05.110 --> 00:25:09.700 align:middle line:84% and on fiscal requests for military aid to Salvador. 00:25:09.700 --> 00:25:12.010 align:middle line:84% And right now, I'm not doing anything with the Congress 00:25:12.010 --> 00:25:17.615 align:middle line:84% because it's not possible to at the moment. 00:25:17.615 --> 00:25:18.115 align:middle line:90% Yes. 00:25:18.115 --> 00:25:34.800 align:middle line:90% 00:25:34.800 --> 00:25:39.180 align:middle line:84% This morning president announced that American troops 00:25:39.180 --> 00:25:42.360 align:middle line:90% would stay in Grenada. 00:25:42.360 --> 00:25:45.030 align:middle line:84% This morning American Naval exercises 00:25:45.030 --> 00:25:48.600 align:middle line:84% were conducted off the coast of Cuba. 00:25:48.600 --> 00:25:52.110 align:middle line:84% I'm trying to keep as clear an assessment of what 00:25:52.110 --> 00:25:55.110 align:middle line:90% is going on as I can. 00:25:55.110 --> 00:25:59.010 align:middle line:84% I don't know how far he is going to go. 00:25:59.010 --> 00:26:02.550 align:middle line:84% I think with the Boland Amendment covert aid 00:26:02.550 --> 00:26:03.690 align:middle line:90% was cut off. 00:26:03.690 --> 00:26:06.630 align:middle line:84% And instead, they're going to send twice as much overt 00:26:06.630 --> 00:26:07.950 align:middle line:90% aid to the Honduran government. 00:26:07.950 --> 00:26:11.100 align:middle line:84% And the Honduran government will give it to the Contras openly. 00:26:11.100 --> 00:26:14.970 align:middle line:90% So that was the effect of that. 00:26:14.970 --> 00:26:17.130 align:middle line:84% What's going to happen is very serious. 00:26:17.130 --> 00:26:22.110 align:middle line:84% And Nicaragua is very vulnerable at the moment militarily. 00:26:22.110 --> 00:26:24.180 align:middle line:84% I don't know the purposes of the Naval exercises 00:26:24.180 --> 00:26:26.055 align:middle line:84% that began this morning off Cuba. 00:26:26.055 --> 00:26:28.650 align:middle line:90% 00:26:28.650 --> 00:26:31.840 align:middle line:84% It's anyone's guess at this moment what's going to happen. 00:26:31.840 --> 00:26:34.260 align:middle line:90% I can't tell you. 00:26:34.260 --> 00:26:38.170 align:middle line:90% I'm watching like you are. 00:26:38.170 --> 00:26:38.670 align:middle line:90% Yes. 00:26:38.670 --> 00:26:43.150 align:middle line:90% 00:26:43.150 --> 00:26:47.380 align:middle line:84% For the poorest of the poor, enormously. 00:26:47.380 --> 00:26:49.090 align:middle line:84% The people who are unhappy are people 00:26:49.090 --> 00:26:53.660 align:middle line:84% who had a lot more to lose than they had to gain. 00:26:53.660 --> 00:26:56.380 align:middle line:84% But the Sandinista government also made mistakes. 00:26:56.380 --> 00:26:58.415 align:middle line:84% They're also a very young government. 00:26:58.415 --> 00:27:01.070 align:middle line:90% 00:27:01.070 --> 00:27:01.570 align:middle line:90% Yes. 00:27:01.570 --> 00:27:06.640 align:middle line:90% 00:27:06.640 --> 00:27:08.080 align:middle line:90% Yes. 00:27:08.080 --> 00:27:11.920 align:middle line:84% It's the Big Pine operation you're talking about. 00:27:11.920 --> 00:27:12.790 align:middle line:90% It's still going on. 00:27:12.790 --> 00:27:16.180 align:middle line:84% And what they're doing is they're building airports. 00:27:16.180 --> 00:27:17.380 align:middle line:90% They're building ports. 00:27:17.380 --> 00:27:19.000 align:middle line:90% They're building radar stations. 00:27:19.000 --> 00:27:20.500 align:middle line:84% They're putting in an infrastructure 00:27:20.500 --> 00:27:23.980 align:middle line:84% to show the Hondurans how to do it. 00:27:23.980 --> 00:27:26.350 align:middle line:84% But then, they're going to leave them all there. 00:27:26.350 --> 00:27:30.115 align:middle line:84% So Big Pine is a way of turning Honduras into Cambodia. 00:27:30.115 --> 00:27:34.450 align:middle line:90% 00:27:34.450 --> 00:27:35.110 align:middle line:90% There. 00:27:35.110 --> 00:27:36.647 align:middle line:90% For quite some time, yes. 00:27:36.647 --> 00:27:38.230 align:middle line:84% And they're thinking about renewing it 00:27:38.230 --> 00:27:39.470 align:middle line:90% when Big Pine is over. 00:27:39.470 --> 00:27:41.350 align:middle line:84% So what you have is 4,000 soldiers 00:27:41.350 --> 00:27:45.280 align:middle line:84% make building airstrips et cetera, et cetera in Honduras 00:27:45.280 --> 00:27:46.900 align:middle line:84% for an indefinite period of time. 00:27:46.900 --> 00:27:50.470 align:middle line:90% 00:27:50.470 --> 00:27:53.080 align:middle line:84% We're going to be in Grenada for an indefinite period of time. 00:27:53.080 --> 00:27:56.240 align:middle line:84% We're going to be in Lebanon for an indefinite period of time. 00:27:56.240 --> 00:27:59.590 align:middle line:84% And pretty soon, we're going to have to go to the Philippines 00:27:59.590 --> 00:28:01.120 align:middle line:90% and South Korea. 00:28:01.120 --> 00:28:03.910 align:middle line:90% 00:28:03.910 --> 00:28:07.030 align:middle line:90% Yes, probably. 00:28:07.030 --> 00:28:08.797 align:middle line:90% I would imagine so. 00:28:08.797 --> 00:28:11.380 align:middle line:84% I don't know how many people are flocking to join the Marines, 00:28:11.380 --> 00:28:13.390 align:middle line:84% but I've heard that they do have recruits 00:28:13.390 --> 00:28:15.230 align:middle line:90% after the deaths in Lebanon. 00:28:15.230 --> 00:28:15.730 align:middle line:90% Yes? 00:28:15.730 --> 00:28:27.530 align:middle line:90% 00:28:27.530 --> 00:28:29.015 align:middle line:90% Shall I be kind or-- 00:28:29.015 --> 00:28:39.130 align:middle line:90% 00:28:39.130 --> 00:28:42.130 align:middle line:84% I learned that I can't expect them to be logical. 00:28:42.130 --> 00:28:45.850 align:middle line:84% And they do not understand the realities within the countries 00:28:45.850 --> 00:28:47.600 align:middle line:90% that they are dealing with. 00:28:47.600 --> 00:28:51.160 align:middle line:90% They are posturing. 00:28:51.160 --> 00:28:58.630 align:middle line:84% They are committed to symbolic gestures 00:28:58.630 --> 00:29:02.290 align:middle line:84% and to a containment of what they 00:29:02.290 --> 00:29:06.130 align:middle line:90% perceive as Soviet aggression. 00:29:06.130 --> 00:29:10.570 align:middle line:84% Nothing that they're doing it really matches the reality. 00:29:10.570 --> 00:29:15.550 align:middle line:84% I don't think Mr. Reagan knows very much about Central America 00:29:15.550 --> 00:29:18.790 align:middle line:90% or about Lebanon. 00:29:18.790 --> 00:29:21.610 align:middle line:84% I can't help you to try to make sense of this. 00:29:21.610 --> 00:29:22.945 align:middle line:90% I tried for a long time. 00:29:22.945 --> 00:29:26.890 align:middle line:90% 00:29:26.890 --> 00:29:30.527 align:middle line:84% He smiles very well, and he combs his hair nicely. 00:29:30.527 --> 00:29:31.360 align:middle line:90% That's what he does. 00:29:31.360 --> 00:29:31.860 align:middle line:90% Yes. 00:29:31.860 --> 00:29:43.835 align:middle line:90% 00:29:43.835 --> 00:29:47.450 align:middle line:90% It works, doesn't it? 00:29:47.450 --> 00:29:50.150 align:middle line:84% The Grenada invasion was in violation 00:29:50.150 --> 00:29:53.000 align:middle line:84% of the Organization of American States treaties, the UN 00:29:53.000 --> 00:29:56.900 align:middle line:84% treaties, the War Powers Resolution, and the 1981 treaty 00:29:56.900 --> 00:29:58.820 align:middle line:84% which established the organization of Eastern 00:29:58.820 --> 00:30:02.720 align:middle line:84% Caribbean states, therefore, in violation of every treaty 00:30:02.720 --> 00:30:05.000 align:middle line:90% we are part of or signatory to. 00:30:05.000 --> 00:30:07.760 align:middle line:84% Now, we could say that we are showing the world 00:30:07.760 --> 00:30:09.260 align:middle line:90% that we will defend our allies. 00:30:09.260 --> 00:30:12.500 align:middle line:84% Or we could say that we're showing the world that our word 00:30:12.500 --> 00:30:14.475 align:middle line:90% is good for nothing. 00:30:14.475 --> 00:30:14.975 align:middle line:90% Yes. 00:30:14.975 --> 00:30:19.508 align:middle line:90% 00:30:19.508 --> 00:30:20.440 align:middle line:90% [APPLAUSE] 00:30:20.440 --> 00:30:20.940 align:middle line:90% Thank you. 00:30:20.940 --> 00:30:21.780 align:middle line:90% I'm going to go now. 00:30:21.780 --> 00:30:22.280 align:middle line:90% Thank you. 00:30:22.280 --> 00:30:23.790 align:middle line:90% You've been very attentive. 00:30:23.790 --> 00:30:25.700 align:middle line:90% Thank you. 00:30:25.700 --> 00:30:44.089 align:middle line:90%