WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:01.610 align:middle line:90% 00:00:01.610 --> 00:00:02.940 align:middle line:90% Oh, hi. 00:00:02.940 --> 00:00:08.230 align:middle line:90% 00:00:08.230 --> 00:00:10.855 align:middle line:84% Well, I woke up today and it was a kind of a white-- 00:00:10.855 --> 00:00:13.690 align:middle line:90% 00:00:13.690 --> 00:00:19.030 align:middle line:84% I was both a little happy that it was our David Foster Wallace 00:00:19.030 --> 00:00:24.730 align:middle line:84% tribute, and also a little melancholy 00:00:24.730 --> 00:00:28.900 align:middle line:90% that this day had come to pass. 00:00:28.900 --> 00:00:36.760 align:middle line:84% Today we're going to enjoy some of the thoughts and ruminations 00:00:36.760 --> 00:00:39.170 align:middle line:90% of our six panelists, here. 00:00:39.170 --> 00:00:40.870 align:middle line:84% And I'd like to start by thanking them 00:00:40.870 --> 00:00:44.140 align:middle line:84% all for joining us today, and coming from far 00:00:44.140 --> 00:00:46.465 align:middle line:90% flung parts of the country. 00:00:46.465 --> 00:00:49.510 align:middle line:90% 00:00:49.510 --> 00:00:53.260 align:middle line:84% As many of you already know, David Foster Wallace 00:00:53.260 --> 00:00:56.800 align:middle line:84% was an alumnus of the University of Arizona MFA program. 00:00:56.800 --> 00:01:00.250 align:middle line:90% He graduated in 1987. 00:01:00.250 --> 00:01:02.180 align:middle line:84% Because of this and also, of course, 00:01:02.180 --> 00:01:05.950 align:middle line:84% because of his staggering, inspiring, and sometimes 00:01:05.950 --> 00:01:08.380 align:middle line:84% controversial legacy, as a writer 00:01:08.380 --> 00:01:10.690 align:middle line:84% of fiction and nonfiction, we wanted 00:01:10.690 --> 00:01:13.360 align:middle line:84% to invite a conversation about the experience of reading 00:01:13.360 --> 00:01:16.870 align:middle line:84% his work, as well as the artistic choices he 00:01:16.870 --> 00:01:19.780 align:middle line:84% made as a stylist, and as an observer 00:01:19.780 --> 00:01:23.510 align:middle line:90% of the project of being human. 00:01:23.510 --> 00:01:25.670 align:middle line:84% This afternoon, we will present two panels, 00:01:25.670 --> 00:01:29.930 align:middle line:84% with a break in the middle for caffeine, and lemon bars, 00:01:29.930 --> 00:01:35.360 align:middle line:84% and possibly water if you're feeling dehydrated, 00:01:35.360 --> 00:01:38.480 align:middle line:84% and a chance to look over some of the books that are 00:01:38.480 --> 00:01:40.320 align:middle line:90% available from UA bookstores. 00:01:40.320 --> 00:01:45.050 align:middle line:84% We have, I think, Wallace's full oeuvre, as well as 00:01:45.050 --> 00:01:47.180 align:middle line:84% the new Sonora Review issue, which 00:01:47.180 --> 00:01:53.240 align:middle line:84% has a David Foster Wallace tribute in the very middle. 00:01:53.240 --> 00:01:55.370 align:middle line:84% The first panel will begin with the panelists 00:01:55.370 --> 00:01:57.830 align:middle line:84% reading from their tribute pieces, 00:01:57.830 --> 00:02:00.620 align:middle line:84% and reflecting on their interactions 00:02:00.620 --> 00:02:03.260 align:middle line:90% with Wallace and his work. 00:02:03.260 --> 00:02:05.810 align:middle line:84% Then we're going to have that little break. 00:02:05.810 --> 00:02:08.930 align:middle line:84% The second panel will continue where the first left off, 00:02:08.930 --> 00:02:10.850 align:middle line:84% possibly inviting thoughts on Wallace's 00:02:10.850 --> 00:02:13.850 align:middle line:90% influence on American letters. 00:02:13.850 --> 00:02:16.800 align:middle line:84% We'll take questions from the audience at that time as well. 00:02:16.800 --> 00:02:19.730 align:middle line:84% So I hope that you can join us for the full, 00:02:19.730 --> 00:02:23.780 align:middle line:90% fat two hours of talk. 00:02:23.780 --> 00:02:26.450 align:middle line:84% Both panels will be moderated by Michael Sheehan, 00:02:26.450 --> 00:02:30.620 align:middle line:84% one of the current co-editors of the Sonora Review. 00:02:30.620 --> 00:02:32.700 align:middle line:90% So thank you all for coming. 00:02:32.700 --> 00:02:34.760 align:middle line:84% Thanks to the Poetry Center, as always, 00:02:34.760 --> 00:02:40.760 align:middle line:84% for hosting us, and creating such a place for literature 00:02:40.760 --> 00:02:43.850 align:middle line:90% to live forever. 00:02:43.850 --> 00:02:47.831 align:middle line:84% And I'll just turn it over to Michael. 00:02:47.831 --> 00:02:50.120 align:middle line:90% [APPLAUSE] 00:02:50.120 --> 00:02:51.880 align:middle line:90% Thank you. 00:02:51.880 --> 00:02:52.630 align:middle line:90% Thank you Aurelie. 00:02:52.630 --> 00:02:54.610 align:middle line:84% Thanks, everyone, for coming out. 00:02:54.610 --> 00:02:58.070 align:middle line:84% So I am Michael Sheehan, co-editor of Sonora Review. 00:02:58.070 --> 00:03:00.417 align:middle line:84% And I was just going to briefly introduce the panelists, 00:03:00.417 --> 00:03:02.500 align:middle line:84% and then we're going to go along, as Aurelie said, 00:03:02.500 --> 00:03:04.417 align:middle line:84% and everyone's just going to read a little bit 00:03:04.417 --> 00:03:07.600 align:middle line:84% from the tribute, maybe with one exception, 00:03:07.600 --> 00:03:10.420 align:middle line:84% and then speak a little bit about their relationship 00:03:10.420 --> 00:03:11.840 align:middle line:90% with Wallace and his work. 00:03:11.840 --> 00:03:15.353 align:middle line:84% So we have Bonnie Nadell, Wallace's literary agent 00:03:15.353 --> 00:03:16.270 align:middle line:90% for his whole career-- 00:03:16.270 --> 00:03:17.470 align:middle line:90% 23 years. 00:03:17.470 --> 00:03:20.470 align:middle line:84% Greg Carslile, author of Elegant Complexity, 00:03:20.470 --> 00:03:22.030 align:middle line:90% a study of Infinite Jest. 00:03:22.030 --> 00:03:24.910 align:middle line:84% Glenn Kenny, who was a film critic, 00:03:24.910 --> 00:03:27.580 align:middle line:84% formerly editor at Premiere, who edited Wallace's work 00:03:27.580 --> 00:03:28.390 align:middle line:90% while there. 00:03:28.390 --> 00:03:31.150 align:middle line:84% Marshall Boswell, who's the author of Understanding David 00:03:31.150 --> 00:03:32.680 align:middle line:90% Foster Wallace. 00:03:32.680 --> 00:03:35.500 align:middle line:84% I can't see-- Charles Bock, the author of Beautiful Children, 00:03:35.500 --> 00:03:36.220 align:middle line:90% the novel. 00:03:36.220 --> 00:03:38.050 align:middle line:84% And Ken Kalfus, most recently author 00:03:38.050 --> 00:03:41.950 align:middle line:84% of A Disorder Peculiar to the Country-- particular, peculiar? 00:03:41.950 --> 00:03:42.880 align:middle line:90% OK. 00:03:42.880 --> 00:03:44.797 align:middle line:84% So I'm just going to pass the microphone along 00:03:44.797 --> 00:03:46.870 align:middle line:84% and everyone, with the exception of Bonnie, 00:03:46.870 --> 00:03:49.240 align:middle line:84% is going to read just a short piece from the tribute. 00:03:49.240 --> 00:03:50.980 align:middle line:84% I think Bonnie might read something else 00:03:50.980 --> 00:03:52.960 align:middle line:90% from David Foster Wallace. 00:03:52.960 --> 00:03:54.280 align:middle line:90% Or speak as you wish. 00:03:54.280 --> 00:03:56.500 align:middle line:90% Right. 00:03:56.500 --> 00:03:58.940 align:middle line:84% Actually, so maybe we could start with Ken, if you'd like? 00:03:58.940 --> 00:04:00.482 align:middle line:84% We have a microphone on that end too. 00:04:00.482 --> 00:04:05.840 align:middle line:90% 00:04:05.840 --> 00:04:11.856 align:middle line:90% [INAUDIBLE] 00:04:11.856 --> 00:04:12.680 align:middle line:90% Testing-- one. 00:04:12.680 --> 00:04:15.670 align:middle line:90% OK, thank you. 00:04:15.670 --> 00:04:17.950 align:middle line:84% It's a pleasure to be here, though it's not 00:04:17.950 --> 00:04:19.730 align:middle line:90% the best of circumstances. 00:04:19.730 --> 00:04:23.430 align:middle line:84% I would've rather been here in another circumstance. 00:04:23.430 --> 00:04:27.910 align:middle line:84% I'll read my, read my piece that-- how are we going 00:04:27.910 --> 00:04:31.390 align:middle line:90% to do it and just move on? 00:04:31.390 --> 00:04:34.660 align:middle line:84% My connection to David was almost entirely literary. 00:04:34.660 --> 00:04:37.360 align:middle line:84% By 1985, I sent one of my short stories, "The Joy 00:04:37.360 --> 00:04:41.410 align:middle line:84% and Melancholy Baseball Trivia Quiz" to the Sonora Review 00:04:41.410 --> 00:04:43.120 align:middle line:90% where David was an editor. 00:04:43.120 --> 00:04:45.640 align:middle line:84% A week later, through my mail slot, 00:04:45.640 --> 00:04:47.620 align:middle line:90% flew the rarest of birds-- 00:04:47.620 --> 00:04:50.290 align:middle line:84% an acceptance letter, and an encouragement 00:04:50.290 --> 00:04:51.940 align:middle line:90% to send more stories. 00:04:51.940 --> 00:04:54.310 align:middle line:84% The Review would eventually publish three of them, 00:04:54.310 --> 00:04:57.040 align:middle line:84% while David and I continued intimate correspondence 00:04:57.040 --> 00:04:59.280 align:middle line:90% over the years. 00:04:59.280 --> 00:05:01.930 align:middle line:90% 1998-- this is 13 years later-- 00:05:01.930 --> 00:05:05.260 align:middle line:84% my first book of short stories was published, including 00:05:05.260 --> 00:05:08.680 align:middle line:84% the Sonora Review contributions, including the title story 00:05:08.680 --> 00:05:09.580 align:middle line:90% Thirst. 00:05:09.580 --> 00:05:13.610 align:middle line:84% And on the back cover, David's gracious endorsement. 00:05:13.610 --> 00:05:15.520 align:middle line:84% This blurb, by the way, is always 00:05:15.520 --> 00:05:19.550 align:middle line:84% employed by publishers of my books' foreign editions. 00:05:19.550 --> 00:05:22.970 align:middle line:84% Despite our warm contacts, David and I met only once-- 00:05:22.970 --> 00:05:24.320 align:middle line:90% the year after that-- 00:05:24.320 --> 00:05:26.130 align:middle line:84% upon publication of my second book, where 00:05:26.130 --> 00:05:30.110 align:middle line:84% he invited me to read from it at Illinois State University, 00:05:30.110 --> 00:05:32.390 align:middle line:90% where he was teaching. 00:05:32.390 --> 00:05:34.520 align:middle line:84% He arranged a big turnout for me that night, 00:05:34.520 --> 00:05:39.320 align:middle line:84% mostly students eager to follow the labyrinthine idiosyncratic 00:05:39.320 --> 00:05:42.290 align:middle line:84% trails of his literary interests. 00:05:42.290 --> 00:05:45.920 align:middle line:84% Since then David's work has been a reminder, an inspiration 00:05:45.920 --> 00:05:47.750 align:middle line:84% that anything, really anything, is 00:05:47.750 --> 00:05:50.900 align:middle line:90% possible in the book universe. 00:05:50.900 --> 00:05:52.400 align:middle line:84% More than two decades after we first 00:05:52.400 --> 00:05:55.670 align:middle line:84% corresponded, 10 years after my first collection was published, 00:05:55.670 --> 00:05:59.975 align:middle line:84% his support continues to cast a warm glow over my writing life. 00:05:59.975 --> 00:06:03.140 align:middle line:90% 00:06:03.140 --> 00:06:08.540 align:middle line:84% Anyway, that's-- I didn't really know David very well. 00:06:08.540 --> 00:06:10.880 align:middle line:84% But I think for a lot of us a lot 00:06:10.880 --> 00:06:13.720 align:middle line:84% of us readers, and for a lot of us people who aspire to write, 00:06:13.720 --> 00:06:14.630 align:middle line:90% he-- 00:06:14.630 --> 00:06:17.528 align:middle line:90% I just want to elaborate that-- 00:06:17.528 --> 00:06:19.070 align:middle line:84% I think every-- I think every great-- 00:06:19.070 --> 00:06:21.140 align:middle line:84% I think every great writer shows us 00:06:21.140 --> 00:06:24.333 align:middle line:84% something that can be done with language, that hasn't been done 00:06:24.333 --> 00:06:26.000 align:middle line:84% before, that we wouldn't have thought of 00:06:26.000 --> 00:06:30.260 align:middle line:90% was possible to have been done. 00:06:30.260 --> 00:06:35.660 align:middle line:84% And David repeatedly showed us, particularly in matters 00:06:35.660 --> 00:06:37.603 align:middle line:84% about the convolutions of human thinking, 00:06:37.603 --> 00:06:39.020 align:middle line:84% that there are ways of approaching 00:06:39.020 --> 00:06:40.940 align:middle line:90% that had hadn't been done. 00:06:40.940 --> 00:06:44.000 align:middle line:84% And that, I think, was always an inspiration to me as a reader 00:06:44.000 --> 00:06:45.410 align:middle line:90% and also as a writer. 00:06:45.410 --> 00:06:53.090 align:middle line:84% And I thought it was one of the great contributions he 00:06:53.090 --> 00:06:55.630 align:middle line:90% made to American literature. 00:06:55.630 --> 00:06:58.250 align:middle line:84% So that's all I want to say for now. 00:06:58.250 --> 00:07:02.320 align:middle line:90% 00:07:02.320 --> 00:07:04.300 align:middle line:90% Hey, that was really good. 00:07:04.300 --> 00:07:09.280 align:middle line:84% [LAUGHS] I'm going to read, I think, about three paragraphs. 00:07:09.280 --> 00:07:13.600 align:middle line:90% 00:07:13.600 --> 00:07:15.970 align:middle line:84% Where David Foster Wallace became singular, 00:07:15.970 --> 00:07:19.360 align:middle line:84% in my opinion, where David Foster Wallace transcended 00:07:19.360 --> 00:07:23.290 align:middle line:84% all the postmodern games and became flat out heroic-- 00:07:23.290 --> 00:07:26.170 align:middle line:84% that was the point where he took these structures 00:07:26.170 --> 00:07:28.840 align:middle line:84% and took all those superb toys from his playground 00:07:28.840 --> 00:07:32.230 align:middle line:84% and applied them to nothing less than the singular struggle 00:07:32.230 --> 00:07:35.350 align:middle line:84% to manage the doubts, and voices, and fears, 00:07:35.350 --> 00:07:40.285 align:middle line:84% and weaknesses inside your head, and just fucking live. 00:07:40.285 --> 00:07:43.420 align:middle line:90% 00:07:43.420 --> 00:07:45.550 align:middle line:84% It's unbearably difficult to read 00:07:45.550 --> 00:07:48.550 align:middle line:84% writing that makes you more connected to yourself, 00:07:48.550 --> 00:07:51.430 align:middle line:84% and the universe, and all the wonders and disappointments 00:07:51.430 --> 00:07:55.180 align:middle line:84% and tiny desires for decency that come with being alive, 00:07:55.180 --> 00:07:58.000 align:middle line:84% and to also know that the person who wrote these words 00:07:58.000 --> 00:08:00.160 align:middle line:90% hung himself. 00:08:00.160 --> 00:08:03.430 align:middle line:84% The easy and natural guess is that Wallace 00:08:03.430 --> 00:08:05.800 align:middle line:84% was able to portray the loneliness, and sadness, 00:08:05.800 --> 00:08:10.150 align:middle line:84% and struggle, so well because he was so deeply enmeshed 00:08:10.150 --> 00:08:15.190 align:middle line:84% in this struggle every single day of his life. 00:08:15.190 --> 00:08:18.130 align:middle line:84% Enmeshed to the point where maybe he related to 00:08:18.130 --> 00:08:19.960 align:middle line:84% and saw the struggle more clearly 00:08:19.960 --> 00:08:22.580 align:middle line:84% as a mechanism of coping with his depression, 00:08:22.580 --> 00:08:26.290 align:middle line:84% to the point where maybe his writing about these things 00:08:26.290 --> 00:08:28.870 align:middle line:84% was one of his only releases from what 00:08:28.870 --> 00:08:31.390 align:middle line:90% was going on inside his head. 00:08:31.390 --> 00:08:34.150 align:middle line:84% Where maybe even the struggle and joy 00:08:34.150 --> 00:08:36.010 align:middle line:84% of expressing all this so clearly 00:08:36.010 --> 00:08:39.490 align:middle line:84% was also its own pressure, and caused its own anxiety, 00:08:39.490 --> 00:08:42.429 align:middle line:90% and depression, and problems. 00:08:42.429 --> 00:08:45.610 align:middle line:84% The hard, cold fact is, for a period of almost 20 years, 00:08:45.610 --> 00:08:47.890 align:middle line:84% David Foster Wallace was able to focus 00:08:47.890 --> 00:08:51.580 align:middle line:84% all of his considerable writing gifts and powers of observation 00:08:51.580 --> 00:08:54.160 align:middle line:84% on the struggle of fighting with yourself to stay 00:08:54.160 --> 00:08:56.050 align:middle line:90% alert and alive. 00:08:56.050 --> 00:08:59.530 align:middle line:84% And he was able with, more clarity, and acuity, 00:08:59.530 --> 00:09:02.500 align:middle line:84% and brainpower, and charm, and humor, 00:09:02.500 --> 00:09:05.920 align:middle line:84% and insight, than anyone else of our time, 00:09:05.920 --> 00:09:10.000 align:middle line:84% to express what it was to be completely 00:09:10.000 --> 00:09:12.610 align:middle line:84% and utterly locked in this fight. 00:09:12.610 --> 00:09:17.370 align:middle line:90% 00:09:17.370 --> 00:09:22.510 align:middle line:90% I think that influence on me-- 00:09:22.510 --> 00:09:25.870 align:middle line:84% we'll talk about his influence on a generation of writers. 00:09:25.870 --> 00:09:29.920 align:middle line:84% And I really do believe that he's 00:09:29.920 --> 00:09:34.390 align:middle line:84% going to be our Kerouac or our Twain of this era, 00:09:34.390 --> 00:09:37.000 align:middle line:90% in this time. 00:09:37.000 --> 00:09:40.210 align:middle line:84% And I could already talk about how many writers 00:09:40.210 --> 00:09:45.040 align:middle line:84% he's influenced, but that he raised the bar in all ways. 00:09:45.040 --> 00:09:48.310 align:middle line:84% That structurally, he went places-- 00:09:48.310 --> 00:09:53.350 align:middle line:84% he took postmodernism and ran with it. 00:09:53.350 --> 00:10:00.775 align:middle line:84% Language wise, he was able to deal with what it is to think. 00:10:00.775 --> 00:10:04.900 align:middle line:90% 00:10:04.900 --> 00:10:08.440 align:middle line:84% When he did nonfiction-- or even his fiction-- 00:10:08.440 --> 00:10:09.520 align:middle line:90% he wouldn't blink. 00:10:09.520 --> 00:10:14.260 align:middle line:84% He would take something to the end of it, always. 00:10:14.260 --> 00:10:22.120 align:middle line:84% And that instead-- and he wanted readers to come with him, 00:10:22.120 --> 00:10:25.750 align:middle line:84% that the challenge was to lift a reader up 00:10:25.750 --> 00:10:33.740 align:middle line:84% to be able to match the how dense the writing was, 00:10:33.740 --> 00:10:37.700 align:middle line:84% and how much you had to know about language, and all that. 00:10:37.700 --> 00:10:41.240 align:middle line:84% And to make it so good, and so entertaining, 00:10:41.240 --> 00:10:43.610 align:middle line:90% that you would come with. 00:10:43.610 --> 00:10:49.860 align:middle line:90% And he was the shit. 00:10:49.860 --> 00:10:53.130 align:middle line:84% He just was-- in all ways, shapes, and forms. 00:10:53.130 --> 00:10:56.340 align:middle line:84% And I'm going to stop talking now OK. 00:10:56.340 --> 00:10:57.948 align:middle line:90% Thank you, Charles. 00:10:57.948 --> 00:10:59.490 align:middle line:84% When I got the invitation to do this, 00:10:59.490 --> 00:11:00.930 align:middle line:84% I was very honored to have been asked. 00:11:00.930 --> 00:11:02.700 align:middle line:84% And when I saw the company of people I was going to be in, 00:11:02.700 --> 00:11:04.470 align:middle line:90% and I was quite intimidated. 00:11:04.470 --> 00:11:08.130 align:middle line:84% I also was-- the original email listed what each person was 00:11:08.130 --> 00:11:09.303 align:middle line:90% going to talk about. 00:11:09.303 --> 00:11:10.470 align:middle line:90% And one of the things that-- 00:11:10.470 --> 00:11:13.530 align:middle line:84% the one area that was missing was the early work, 00:11:13.530 --> 00:11:15.412 align:middle line:84% which gets forgotten sometimes, because of, 00:11:15.412 --> 00:11:17.370 align:middle line:84% just, the massive achievement of Infinite Jest. 00:11:17.370 --> 00:11:19.110 align:middle line:90% But for those of us who were-- 00:11:19.110 --> 00:11:22.590 align:middle line:84% I'm 44, I'm only a couple of years younger than Wallace 00:11:22.590 --> 00:11:26.640 align:middle line:84% and the way people get about bands, 00:11:26.640 --> 00:11:30.120 align:middle line:84% you got their first album before they got big. 00:11:30.120 --> 00:11:32.640 align:middle line:84% I was-- I had his first book when it first came out, 00:11:32.640 --> 00:11:35.340 align:middle line:84% and I felt like I had discovered something. 00:11:35.340 --> 00:11:37.080 align:middle line:84% And there was a lot of us out there 00:11:37.080 --> 00:11:38.955 align:middle line:84% that felt like they had discovered something. 00:11:38.955 --> 00:11:41.910 align:middle line:84% And it was a seismic shift in the way literature was going, 00:11:41.910 --> 00:11:44.580 align:middle line:84% at that moment when Wallace emerged, 00:11:44.580 --> 00:11:48.450 align:middle line:84% and Infinite Jest was the payoff for what we hoped for him. 00:11:48.450 --> 00:11:50.880 align:middle line:84% And so I thought I would write something about Girl 00:11:50.880 --> 00:11:53.340 align:middle line:84% with Curious Hair, his second book, his first short story 00:11:53.340 --> 00:11:55.423 align:middle line:84% collection, which kind of gets lost in the shuffle 00:11:55.423 --> 00:11:57.300 align:middle line:84% sometimes in the critical attention. 00:11:57.300 --> 00:11:59.130 align:middle line:84% But it's important to a great many of us 00:11:59.130 --> 00:12:01.870 align:middle line:84% who read it at the time, and it was important to me. 00:12:01.870 --> 00:12:04.030 align:middle line:84% I think it's important to a lot of people. 00:12:04.030 --> 00:12:08.922 align:middle line:84% So I wanted to write about that arrival of that book. 00:12:08.922 --> 00:12:10.460 align:middle line:90% It was written here. 00:12:10.460 --> 00:12:11.460 align:middle line:90% And it was written here. 00:12:11.460 --> 00:12:13.740 align:middle line:84% And that I did not know, I would come here and actually be-- 00:12:13.740 --> 00:12:14.400 align:middle line:90% Every word. 00:12:14.400 --> 00:12:15.770 align:middle line:90% Every word of it, right. 00:12:15.770 --> 00:12:16.470 align:middle line:90% [INAUDIBLE] 00:12:16.470 --> 00:12:20.250 align:middle line:84% Yes, and I mentioned that, although I didn't know that. 00:12:20.250 --> 00:12:21.010 align:middle line:90% [INAUDIBLE] 00:12:21.010 --> 00:12:21.510 align:middle line:90% Yes. 00:12:21.510 --> 00:12:22.848 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:12:22.848 --> 00:12:25.080 align:middle line:90% [INAUDIBLE] 00:12:25.080 --> 00:12:27.840 align:middle line:90% Graduation. 00:12:27.840 --> 00:12:29.850 align:middle line:84% Though some of it admittedly seems dated now, 00:12:29.850 --> 00:12:31.620 align:middle line:84% David Foster Wallace's first story collection, 00:12:31.620 --> 00:12:33.630 align:middle line:84% Girl with Curious Hair, remains a signature book 00:12:33.630 --> 00:12:35.338 align:middle line:84% for many of us lucky enough to have first 00:12:35.338 --> 00:12:37.680 align:middle line:90% encountered it afresh, in 1989. 00:12:37.680 --> 00:12:39.510 align:middle line:84% More so than any other book of its era, 00:12:39.510 --> 00:12:42.270 align:middle line:84% this early collection leveled a decisive death blow 00:12:42.270 --> 00:12:44.100 align:middle line:90% to the dreary 1980s-- 00:12:44.100 --> 00:12:46.110 align:middle line:84% the decade that Gordon Lish built. 00:12:46.110 --> 00:12:49.140 align:middle line:84% And the small coterie of devoted David Foster Wallace obsessives 00:12:49.140 --> 00:12:52.410 align:middle line:84% from that period breathed a grateful sigh of relief. 00:12:52.410 --> 00:12:55.650 align:middle line:84% Quite self-consciously, the book took deadly aim at dirty 00:12:55.650 --> 00:12:59.070 align:middle line:84% realism, or truckstop minimalism, or neorealism-- 00:12:59.070 --> 00:13:01.290 align:middle line:84% whatever you want to call it-- while also signaling 00:13:01.290 --> 00:13:04.080 align:middle line:84% the emergence of a vital new sensibility that reflected, 00:13:04.080 --> 00:13:06.000 align:middle line:84% for the first time in my experience, anyway, 00:13:06.000 --> 00:13:08.380 align:middle line:84% something decisive and distinctive about-- 00:13:08.380 --> 00:13:11.520 align:middle line:84% and there's just no other way to say this-- my own generation. 00:13:11.520 --> 00:13:14.460 align:middle line:84% Which cultural sociologists now sandwiched between the baby 00:13:14.460 --> 00:13:16.950 align:middle line:84% boomers and Generation X. And which, it still 00:13:16.950 --> 00:13:18.712 align:middle line:84% stuns me to realize, recently accomplished 00:13:18.712 --> 00:13:20.670 align:middle line:84% something I never would have thought possible-- 00:13:20.670 --> 00:13:22.320 align:middle line:90% produced a president. 00:13:22.320 --> 00:13:25.618 align:middle line:84% In American letters, the 1990s begin right here. 00:13:25.618 --> 00:13:27.660 align:middle line:84% I am reminded of the book's timeliness every time 00:13:27.660 --> 00:13:30.600 align:middle line:84% I teach it to 21st century undergraduates. 00:13:30.600 --> 00:13:32.640 align:middle line:84% Though they are properly dazzled by its mixture 00:13:32.640 --> 00:13:35.460 align:middle line:84% of high-tech literariness, pop-culture savvy, 00:13:35.460 --> 00:13:38.580 align:middle line:84% and storytelling brio, they are frankly bewildered 00:13:38.580 --> 00:13:41.520 align:middle line:84% by the book's urgency and sense of mission. 00:13:41.520 --> 00:13:44.910 align:middle line:84% Wallace's authorial adversaries are as obscure to them 00:13:44.910 --> 00:13:47.140 align:middle line:84% as Kierkegaard's battle with Danish Hegelians 00:13:47.140 --> 00:13:48.660 align:middle line:90% are to the rest of us. 00:13:48.660 --> 00:13:51.030 align:middle line:84% For them, the 1980s is a comical decade 00:13:51.030 --> 00:13:54.000 align:middle line:84% of bouffant hairdos, pastel suit jackets, 00:13:54.000 --> 00:13:55.920 align:middle line:90% and conspicuous consumption. 00:13:55.920 --> 00:13:58.530 align:middle line:84% Hence it takes some doing to convey to them how 00:13:58.530 --> 00:14:00.180 align:middle line:84% diametrically opposed to all of that 00:14:00.180 --> 00:14:02.940 align:middle line:84% was the era's prevailing literary ethos, which, 00:14:02.940 --> 00:14:05.460 align:middle line:84% in violent counter-reaction to the fabulous excesses 00:14:05.460 --> 00:14:08.160 align:middle line:84% of the '60s and '70's, embraced austerity 00:14:08.160 --> 00:14:12.990 align:middle line:84% and restraint, concreteness and cynicism, brevity and banality. 00:14:12.990 --> 00:14:15.750 align:middle line:84% Writers like Richard Ford, Ann Beattie, Bobbie Ann Mason, 00:14:15.750 --> 00:14:18.870 align:middle line:84% and, most importantly, Raymond Carver reclaimed realism from 00:14:18.870 --> 00:14:21.570 align:middle line:84% the bad rap it had gotten from Barth and Barthelme, 00:14:21.570 --> 00:14:24.120 align:middle line:84% and the glowing guild of grad-school fiction writers 00:14:24.120 --> 00:14:25.440 align:middle line:90% quickly followed suit-- 00:14:25.440 --> 00:14:26.670 align:middle line:90% and who could blame them? 00:14:26.670 --> 00:14:28.590 align:middle line:84% After all, the Dirty Realist story, 00:14:28.590 --> 00:14:31.530 align:middle line:84% with its emotional obliqueness and less-is-more ethos, 00:14:31.530 --> 00:14:34.230 align:middle line:84% was tailor-made for the graduate workshop, not to mention 00:14:34.230 --> 00:14:36.570 align:middle line:84% the university-sponsored literary magazine. 00:14:36.570 --> 00:14:39.570 align:middle line:84% Minimalism ruled, and Carver was king. 00:14:39.570 --> 00:14:41.910 align:middle line:90% By 1989, the rot had set in. 00:14:41.910 --> 00:14:44.850 align:middle line:84% Mark Helprin took his shot at the prevailing sameness 00:14:44.850 --> 00:14:46.920 align:middle line:84% of the Lish school, in his cranky introduction 00:14:46.920 --> 00:14:50.130 align:middle line:84% to the 1989 edition of Best American Short Stories 00:14:50.130 --> 00:14:52.680 align:middle line:84% which, tellingly, included Raymond Carver's moving 00:14:52.680 --> 00:14:55.440 align:middle line:84% homage to Chekhov, "Errand," thus reminding 00:14:55.440 --> 00:14:57.960 align:middle line:84% us not to confuse the master with his minions. 00:14:57.960 --> 00:15:00.450 align:middle line:84% While Madison Smartt Bell, anticipating Helprin 00:15:00.450 --> 00:15:02.130 align:middle line:84% by two years, took similar umbrage 00:15:02.130 --> 00:15:05.160 align:middle line:84% in the pages of Harper's with his essay quote "Less is Less-- 00:15:05.160 --> 00:15:08.160 align:middle line:84% The Diminishing American Short Story." 00:15:08.160 --> 00:15:10.172 align:middle line:84% Wallace's intervention into this fray 00:15:10.172 --> 00:15:11.880 align:middle line:84% was all the more conspicuous for the fact 00:15:11.880 --> 00:15:14.430 align:middle line:84% that it happened in the fiction itself. 00:15:14.430 --> 00:15:16.860 align:middle line:84% What's more, unlike other critics of the Lish school, 00:15:16.860 --> 00:15:19.860 align:middle line:84% he did not call for a return to Barthian postmodernism, 00:15:19.860 --> 00:15:23.220 align:middle line:84% or to pre-'80s lyricism, or to journalistic naturalism, 00:15:23.220 --> 00:15:24.240 align:middle line:90% or what have you. 00:15:24.240 --> 00:15:26.250 align:middle line:84% Rather, Wallace sought, quite audaciously 00:15:26.250 --> 00:15:29.490 align:middle line:84% for so young a writer, to point the way forward. 00:15:29.490 --> 00:15:31.500 align:middle line:84% All the preceding hopefully provides a context 00:15:31.500 --> 00:15:34.440 align:middle line:84% in which to read the varied, if also somewhat uneven, stories 00:15:34.440 --> 00:15:37.530 align:middle line:84% that make up this fascinating first collection, which 00:15:37.530 --> 00:15:39.360 align:middle line:84% he drafted while pursuing his MFA 00:15:39.360 --> 00:15:41.490 align:middle line:90% at the University of Arizona. 00:15:41.490 --> 00:15:44.400 align:middle line:84% Throughout the collection, Wallace gives free rein 00:15:44.400 --> 00:15:47.060 align:middle line:84% to his vaunted verbal adeptness and comic exuberance. 00:15:47.060 --> 00:15:49.550 align:middle line:84% No less-is-more for this young aspirant. 00:15:49.550 --> 00:15:51.950 align:middle line:84% While the book boasts several pieces that remain stunning 00:15:51.950 --> 00:15:54.890 align:middle line:84% in the freshness of their formal innovations, nevertheless 00:15:54.890 --> 00:15:56.480 align:middle line:84% many of the stories are so embedded 00:15:56.480 --> 00:15:58.700 align:middle line:84% in the culture reality of the 1980s 00:15:58.700 --> 00:16:00.410 align:middle line:90% that they seem bewildering now. 00:16:00.410 --> 00:16:02.270 align:middle line:84% So a little bit of explanation is in order. 00:16:02.270 --> 00:16:04.093 align:middle line:84% I'm going to read just a little bit more. 00:16:04.093 --> 00:16:06.260 align:middle line:84% For example-- whereas, at the time, the collection's 00:16:06.260 --> 00:16:08.150 align:middle line:84% first story "Little Expressionless Animals," 00:16:08.150 --> 00:16:10.850 align:middle line:84% seemed audacious and groundbreaking, with its cut 00:16:10.850 --> 00:16:13.580 align:middle line:84% up chronology, its commingling of fictional characters and TV 00:16:13.580 --> 00:16:15.340 align:middle line:84% personalities, and most importantly, 00:16:15.340 --> 00:16:18.290 align:middle line:84% its DeLillo-esque theorizing about the intersection 00:16:18.290 --> 00:16:21.140 align:middle line:84% between interiority and televisual hyper reality, 00:16:21.140 --> 00:16:24.020 align:middle line:84% it now could seem curiously lightweight without some memory 00:16:24.020 --> 00:16:26.660 align:middle line:84% of the late 80s preoccupation with Vanna White 00:16:26.660 --> 00:16:29.150 align:middle line:84% and other dinner hour game show celebrities. 00:16:29.150 --> 00:16:30.837 align:middle line:84% Incidentally, the story's basic premise, 00:16:30.837 --> 00:16:33.170 align:middle line:84% which concerns a young woman's three year winning streak 00:16:33.170 --> 00:16:37.850 align:middle line:84% on Jeopardy, anticipates by 15 years Ken Jennings' 74 game 00:16:37.850 --> 00:16:39.380 align:middle line:90% reign on the same. 00:16:39.380 --> 00:16:42.110 align:middle line:84% Similarly, the title story-- in which an emotionless right wing 00:16:42.110 --> 00:16:44.300 align:middle line:84% yuppie named Sick Puppy describes, 00:16:44.300 --> 00:16:46.880 align:middle line:84% with zombie-like detachment, a violent evening at a Keith 00:16:46.880 --> 00:16:47.870 align:middle line:90% Jarrett concert-- 00:16:47.870 --> 00:16:49.490 align:middle line:84% makes little sense now, unless read 00:16:49.490 --> 00:16:52.880 align:middle line:84% in the context of Bret Easton Ellis' then popular novels 00:16:52.880 --> 00:16:58.070 align:middle line:84% about coke snorting yuppies, which body of work 00:16:58.070 --> 00:16:59.990 align:middle line:90% the story skewers. 00:16:59.990 --> 00:17:02.030 align:middle line:84% Once again, the piece was eerily prescient, 00:17:02.030 --> 00:17:05.089 align:middle line:84% as Wallace's Sick Puppy lists the brand 00:17:05.089 --> 00:17:07.130 align:middle line:84% names of his expensive designer clothes 00:17:07.130 --> 00:17:09.020 align:middle line:84% with the same degree of cold exactitude 00:17:09.020 --> 00:17:11.690 align:middle line:84% with which he describes his peculiar fetish for burning 00:17:11.690 --> 00:17:13.430 align:middle line:84% the nipples of women who fellate him, 00:17:13.430 --> 00:17:16.550 align:middle line:84% thereby parodying, in advance, Ellis's American Psycho, which 00:17:16.550 --> 00:17:19.111 align:middle line:90% did not appear until 1991. 00:17:19.111 --> 00:17:21.319 align:middle line:84% Amid all this literary jousting, however, two stories 00:17:21.319 --> 00:17:24.140 align:middle line:84% stood out, even then, as particularly forward thinking. 00:17:24.140 --> 00:17:26.150 align:middle line:84% One is "My Appearance," about David Letterman, 00:17:26.150 --> 00:17:27.440 align:middle line:84% and another one is the novella which 00:17:27.440 --> 00:17:28.940 align:middle line:84% I'm going to read from later, so I'm 00:17:28.940 --> 00:17:31.070 align:middle line:90% going to stop there and pass it. 00:17:31.070 --> 00:17:33.530 align:middle line:90% Thank you. 00:17:33.530 --> 00:17:35.030 align:middle line:90% Hi. 00:17:35.030 --> 00:17:37.700 align:middle line:84% I have predictably mixed feelings about being here, 00:17:37.700 --> 00:17:40.070 align:middle line:84% but I do want to thank Michael and Aurelie and everybody 00:17:40.070 --> 00:17:41.220 align:middle line:90% for putting this together. 00:17:41.220 --> 00:17:43.010 align:middle line:90% It's really fantastic. 00:17:43.010 --> 00:17:47.270 align:middle line:84% The piece I wrote for the Sonora Review was done in the modular, 00:17:47.270 --> 00:17:50.240 align:middle line:84% "I remember" format that was invented by Joe Brainard, 00:17:50.240 --> 00:17:53.960 align:middle line:84% and later used by Georges Perec, and later still 00:17:53.960 --> 00:17:57.140 align:middle line:84% by Harry Matthews writing about Georges Perec, 00:17:57.140 --> 00:18:00.200 align:middle line:84% because I'm pretentious like that. 00:18:00.200 --> 00:18:02.690 align:middle line:90% Actually one of my-- 00:18:02.690 --> 00:18:05.150 align:middle line:84% I considered it a moral victory when I got Dave conv-- 00:18:05.150 --> 00:18:06.830 align:middle line:84% goaded Dave into reading Georges Perec. 00:18:06.830 --> 00:18:10.100 align:middle line:84% He was very distrustful of the Oulipo writers, 00:18:10.100 --> 00:18:13.130 align:middle line:84% because he felt that they were, possibly, mere formalists. 00:18:13.130 --> 00:18:16.830 align:middle line:84% But I think, after he read W, or the Memory of Childhood, 00:18:16.830 --> 00:18:19.310 align:middle line:84% he said, OK, there's something there. 00:18:19.310 --> 00:18:22.040 align:middle line:84% So this is a three page piece, and I'm just 00:18:22.040 --> 00:18:23.510 align:middle line:90% going to read selected modules. 00:18:23.510 --> 00:18:27.678 align:middle line:84% It's called "I remember David Foster Wallace." 00:18:27.678 --> 00:18:29.720 align:middle line:84% I remember the first time I heard Dave get angry. 00:18:29.720 --> 00:18:32.150 align:middle line:84% It was several months after "David Lynch Keeps His Head" 00:18:32.150 --> 00:18:34.160 align:middle line:84% appeared in Premiere, and he was re-revising 00:18:34.160 --> 00:18:36.140 align:middle line:84% the piece for inclusion in "A Supposedly Fun 00:18:36.140 --> 00:18:38.000 align:middle line:90% Thing I'll Never Do Again." 00:18:38.000 --> 00:18:39.967 align:middle line:84% He had been calling our LA office, 00:18:39.967 --> 00:18:42.050 align:middle line:84% trying to get a notebook back from a fact checker, 00:18:42.050 --> 00:18:43.257 align:middle line:90% but to no avail. 00:18:43.257 --> 00:18:44.840 align:middle line:84% So he called me in New York, and asked 00:18:44.840 --> 00:18:47.150 align:middle line:84% if I could please get on the back of quote, 00:18:47.150 --> 00:18:51.440 align:middle line:84% "that asshole fuck-wad douchebag name redacted," unquote, 00:18:51.440 --> 00:18:55.305 align:middle line:84% and compel him to return said notebook to Dave, which I did. 00:18:55.305 --> 00:18:56.930 align:middle line:84% For the rest of his tenure at Premiere, 00:18:56.930 --> 00:18:58.850 align:middle line:84% said fact checker was only ever referred 00:18:58.850 --> 00:19:00.980 align:middle line:84% to in the New York office as quote, 00:19:00.980 --> 00:19:06.170 align:middle line:84% "that asshole fuck-wad douchebag name redacted," unquote. 00:19:06.170 --> 00:19:09.110 align:middle line:84% I remember having breakfast with Dave, Hustler's Evan 00:19:09.110 --> 00:19:11.570 align:middle line:84% Wright, and Nathaniel Welsh, Premiere's photographer 00:19:11.570 --> 00:19:14.870 align:middle line:84% for the AVN awards piece and, coincidentally, 00:19:14.870 --> 00:19:16.760 align:middle line:90% a close friend of Evans-- 00:19:16.760 --> 00:19:18.290 align:middle line:84% they had driven to Nevada from LA 00:19:18.290 --> 00:19:20.570 align:middle line:84% together-- on our first day in Vegas. 00:19:20.570 --> 00:19:22.370 align:middle line:84% The conversation turned to smoking, 00:19:22.370 --> 00:19:24.680 align:middle line:84% and someone remarked on the lung searing qualities 00:19:24.680 --> 00:19:26.660 align:middle line:90% of menthol cigarettes. 00:19:26.660 --> 00:19:28.760 align:middle line:84% As opposed to regular cigarettes, Dave said, 00:19:28.760 --> 00:19:32.810 align:middle line:84% which leave your lungs as pink and clean as a baby's. 00:19:32.810 --> 00:19:35.330 align:middle line:84% I remember Dave saying to me, at that same breakfast, 00:19:35.330 --> 00:19:38.000 align:middle line:84% I figured out what I'm going to call you in the article-- 00:19:38.000 --> 00:19:39.950 align:middle line:90% Dick Filth. 00:19:39.950 --> 00:19:43.930 align:middle line:84% I remember not quite knowing how to take that. 00:19:43.930 --> 00:19:46.430 align:middle line:84% I remember explaining to the Hachette legal department that, 00:19:46.430 --> 00:19:49.130 align:middle line:84% no, Harold Hecuba and Richard "Dick" Filth, 00:19:49.130 --> 00:19:52.040 align:middle line:84% characters in Dave's AVN piece-- which appears in "Consider 00:19:52.040 --> 00:19:54.350 align:middle line:84% the Lobster" in its unbowdlerized form under its 00:19:54.350 --> 00:19:56.300 align:middle line:90% original title, "Big Red Son,"-- 00:19:56.300 --> 00:19:57.440 align:middle line:90% were not real people. 00:19:57.440 --> 00:19:59.750 align:middle line:84% That, in fact, they were fictional and interchangeable 00:19:59.750 --> 00:20:03.050 align:middle line:84% composites of myself and Evan Wright, and maybe Nat Welsh, 00:20:03.050 --> 00:20:05.810 align:middle line:84% rather thoroughly mutated by Dave's imagination. 00:20:05.810 --> 00:20:07.490 align:middle line:84% And, no, that, while it was Evan Wright 00:20:07.490 --> 00:20:10.310 align:middle line:84% who was assaulted by porn star Jasmin St. Clair at a party 00:20:10.310 --> 00:20:12.410 align:middle line:84% some months prior to the AVN Awards, 00:20:12.410 --> 00:20:15.980 align:middle line:84% Evan did/does not wear quote, "special auto-tinted 00:20:15.980 --> 00:20:17.030 align:middle line:90% trifocals," unquote. 00:20:17.030 --> 00:20:20.090 align:middle line:84% And that, no, St. Clair's semi-assault on Evan did not 00:20:20.090 --> 00:20:23.540 align:middle line:84% send said non-existent special auto-tint trifocals flying 00:20:23.540 --> 00:20:26.030 align:middle line:84% quote, "in an arc across the room and into the forbidding 00:20:26.030 --> 00:20:29.600 align:middle line:84% decolletage of Ms. Christy Canyon, never to be recovered-- 00:20:29.600 --> 00:20:30.290 align:middle line:90% the glasses-- 00:20:30.290 --> 00:20:33.410 align:middle line:84% or even seen ever again," unquote. 00:20:33.410 --> 00:20:36.140 align:middle line:84% I remember the legal department being entirely nonplussed. 00:20:36.140 --> 00:20:39.080 align:middle line:84% I remember, rather than trying to mollify the legal department 00:20:39.080 --> 00:20:41.060 align:middle line:84% with some elaborate citing of literary theory 00:20:41.060 --> 00:20:42.740 align:middle line:84% or such, I told them that it would 00:20:42.740 --> 00:20:45.230 align:middle line:84% be OK to let such things stand, because Evan and I weren't 00:20:45.230 --> 00:20:48.560 align:middle line:84% going to sue the magazine, Jasmin St. Clair had, in fact, 00:20:48.560 --> 00:20:50.900 align:middle line:84% semi-assaulted Evan under circumstances at least 00:20:50.900 --> 00:20:53.150 align:middle line:84% similar to the ones described and, finally, 00:20:53.150 --> 00:20:57.180 align:middle line:84% that the author of the piece was a really big deal. 00:20:57.180 --> 00:20:58.850 align:middle line:84% I remember Dave calling me one day, 00:20:58.850 --> 00:21:02.458 align:middle line:84% around 2003, totally out of the blue, and saying, 00:21:02.458 --> 00:21:05.000 align:middle line:84% I was wondering if you had any idea of what the hell happened 00:21:05.000 --> 00:21:08.600 align:middle line:90% to Mickey Rourke's face? 00:21:08.600 --> 00:21:10.340 align:middle line:84% I remember, in our last half dozen or so 00:21:10.340 --> 00:21:12.380 align:middle line:84% phone conversations, Dave and I mostly talked 00:21:12.380 --> 00:21:14.900 align:middle line:90% about how great our wives were. 00:21:14.900 --> 00:21:17.330 align:middle line:84% I remember my very last phone conversation with Dave, 00:21:17.330 --> 00:21:20.030 align:middle line:84% shortly after I got canned from the Premiere website in May 00:21:20.030 --> 00:21:21.088 align:middle line:90% of '08. 00:21:21.088 --> 00:21:22.880 align:middle line:84% Don't take this the wrong way, but I always 00:21:22.880 --> 00:21:24.672 align:middle line:84% thought you were too good for them anyway-- 00:21:24.672 --> 00:21:27.985 align:middle line:84% typical Dave-- then we talked about how great our wives were. 00:21:27.985 --> 00:21:30.110 align:middle line:84% I remember coming out of the screening of the film, 00:21:30.110 --> 00:21:32.240 align:middle line:84% The Wrestler, starring Mickey Rourke, and his face, 00:21:32.240 --> 00:21:34.782 align:middle line:84% and thinking, shit, I gotta call Dave and tell him about this 00:21:34.782 --> 00:21:37.940 align:middle line:84% movie, and then remembering-- it was like a stab-- 00:21:37.940 --> 00:21:40.040 align:middle line:90% that there was no more Dave. 00:21:40.040 --> 00:21:40.580 align:middle line:90% Thank you. 00:21:40.580 --> 00:21:45.168 align:middle line:90% 00:21:45.168 --> 00:21:46.210 align:middle line:90% All right, y'all came up. 00:21:46.210 --> 00:21:47.296 align:middle line:90% Can I borrow you? 00:21:47.296 --> 00:21:48.172 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:21:48.172 --> 00:21:48.610 align:middle line:90% What are you talking about-- 00:21:48.610 --> 00:21:49.568 align:middle line:90% You're never going to-- 00:21:49.568 --> 00:21:51.200 align:middle line:90% No, I'm kidding, I'm kidding. 00:21:51.200 --> 00:21:51.997 align:middle line:90% They have too many. 00:21:51.997 --> 00:21:57.140 align:middle line:90% 00:21:57.140 --> 00:21:59.160 align:middle line:84% A little bit further the other way. 00:21:59.160 --> 00:21:59.740 align:middle line:90% Yep, with-- 00:21:59.740 --> 00:22:02.659 align:middle line:84% Let's do something Oulipian, pick a page at random. 00:22:02.659 --> 00:22:10.961 align:middle line:90% 00:22:10.961 --> 00:22:11.461 align:middle line:90% OK. 00:22:11.461 --> 00:22:15.390 align:middle line:90% 00:22:15.390 --> 00:22:16.980 align:middle line:90% Hi, I'm Greg Carslile. 00:22:16.980 --> 00:22:20.280 align:middle line:84% The book that I wrote about Infinite Jest, Elegant 00:22:20.280 --> 00:22:22.890 align:middle line:84% Complexity, I wanted to kind of keep 00:22:22.890 --> 00:22:25.860 align:middle line:84% exploring the structure of this book. 00:22:25.860 --> 00:22:27.420 align:middle line:84% I sense a structure there-- everyone 00:22:27.420 --> 00:22:30.190 align:middle line:84% says that it's unstructured, but I know there's one there. 00:22:30.190 --> 00:22:31.950 align:middle line:84% And so I wanted to explore that, that's what that was about. 00:22:31.950 --> 00:22:34.560 align:middle line:84% And so I keep thinking about how are things structured. 00:22:34.560 --> 00:22:36.090 align:middle line:90% My favorite part of-- 00:22:36.090 --> 00:22:38.490 align:middle line:84% one of the million things that are your favorite parts 00:22:38.490 --> 00:22:39.570 align:middle line:90% about Wallace's fiction-- 00:22:39.570 --> 00:22:42.000 align:middle line:84% is that how he leaves things unresolved in a moment 00:22:42.000 --> 00:22:43.530 align:middle line:90% of extreme tension. 00:22:43.530 --> 00:22:44.790 align:middle line:90% It's just extraordinary. 00:22:44.790 --> 00:22:47.010 align:middle line:84% And so I came up with a little mathematical model 00:22:47.010 --> 00:22:49.830 align:middle line:84% for that, which we can talk more about later. 00:22:49.830 --> 00:22:52.590 align:middle line:84% But here's an example of how he, instead 00:22:52.590 --> 00:22:56.040 align:middle line:84% of the traditional resolution of a story, 00:22:56.040 --> 00:22:59.850 align:middle line:84% it just kind of keeps going up to infinity without resolving. 00:22:59.850 --> 00:23:03.330 align:middle line:84% And so, here's an example of that. 00:23:03.330 --> 00:23:05.940 align:middle line:84% One of the most delightful episodes of Infinite Jest 00:23:05.940 --> 00:23:09.210 align:middle line:84% is the Eschaton section, where 12 to 15-year-olds 00:23:09.210 --> 00:23:12.030 align:middle line:84% play a nuclear conflagration game, with 400 tennis balls, 00:23:12.030 --> 00:23:15.150 align:middle line:84% on four tennis courts that serve as a world map. 00:23:15.150 --> 00:23:17.460 align:middle line:84% This sequence appears to follow a traditional narrative 00:23:17.460 --> 00:23:20.190 align:middle line:84% structure but, as we approach the climax, the details 00:23:20.190 --> 00:23:23.040 align:middle line:84% of the narrative increase without bound, 00:23:23.040 --> 00:23:26.700 align:middle line:84% and must be truncated if we are to continue the novel. 00:23:26.700 --> 00:23:29.310 align:middle line:84% Over the first five pages, and a two page endnote, 00:23:29.310 --> 00:23:31.800 align:middle line:84% we are given dense exposition about the rules 00:23:31.800 --> 00:23:34.620 align:middle line:84% of the slow paced Eschaton game, and the care 00:23:34.620 --> 00:23:37.140 align:middle line:84% taken to make the game approximate real world 00:23:37.140 --> 00:23:38.310 align:middle line:90% conditions. 00:23:38.310 --> 00:23:41.310 align:middle line:84% The next five pages document the current Eschaton game, 00:23:41.310 --> 00:23:43.740 align:middle line:84% introduce the four upperclassman spectators 00:23:43.740 --> 00:23:46.320 align:middle line:84% whose mentoring responsibilities are being compromised 00:23:46.320 --> 00:23:48.420 align:middle line:84% by their use of illicit substances, 00:23:48.420 --> 00:23:52.080 align:middle line:84% and reveal a spy observing the game from a nearby car. 00:23:52.080 --> 00:23:54.360 align:middle line:84% Over the next five pages, tension 00:23:54.360 --> 00:23:57.690 align:middle line:84% builds when one player suggests that the snow that 00:23:57.690 --> 00:24:01.050 align:middle line:84% has begun falling will affect the conditions of the game. 00:24:01.050 --> 00:24:03.150 align:middle line:84% One of the upperclassmen is infuriated, 00:24:03.150 --> 00:24:05.040 align:middle line:84% and chastises the player for confusing 00:24:05.040 --> 00:24:08.850 align:middle line:84% the map, the courts they are on, with the territory, 00:24:08.850 --> 00:24:11.220 align:middle line:84% the real world the courts represent. 00:24:11.220 --> 00:24:14.310 align:middle line:84% But the confusion of boundaries prompts a second player 00:24:14.310 --> 00:24:16.440 align:middle line:84% to hit a third player with a tennis ball, 00:24:16.440 --> 00:24:19.440 align:middle line:84% breaching quote "the one ground rule boundary that 00:24:19.440 --> 00:24:22.740 align:middle line:84% keeps Eschaton from degenerating into chaos" 00:24:22.740 --> 00:24:25.920 align:middle line:84% Players are part of the map, not the territory, 00:24:25.920 --> 00:24:28.650 align:middle line:84% and are therefore exempt as targets. 00:24:28.650 --> 00:24:32.280 align:middle line:84% In the final sequence, the map of an imagined conflict 00:24:32.280 --> 00:24:35.250 align:middle line:84% becomes the territory of an actual conflict. 00:24:35.250 --> 00:24:38.340 align:middle line:84% However, instead of moving through a crisis moment 00:24:38.340 --> 00:24:41.280 align:middle line:84% to resolution as the narrative progresses, 00:24:41.280 --> 00:24:44.790 align:middle line:84% Wallace fires a relentless barrage of details-- 00:24:44.790 --> 00:24:46.800 align:middle line:84% concerning both on and off court activities-- 00:24:46.800 --> 00:24:48.840 align:middle line:84% that intensify the narrative but keep us 00:24:48.840 --> 00:24:51.300 align:middle line:84% from reaching a climax, setting up a condition 00:24:51.300 --> 00:24:54.900 align:middle line:84% of quote "chaotic stasis," which, presumably, would 00:24:54.900 --> 00:24:57.330 align:middle line:84% go on indefinitely, if the narrative did not 00:24:57.330 --> 00:24:59.790 align:middle line:84% jump from on court fighting, off court angst, 00:24:59.790 --> 00:25:02.070 align:middle line:84% and the repetitive sounds of a whistle and a siren 00:25:02.070 --> 00:25:06.870 align:middle line:84% on page 342, to a new section on page 343. 00:25:06.870 --> 00:25:09.150 align:middle line:84% Interestingly, the Eschaton section 00:25:09.150 --> 00:25:12.930 align:middle line:84% is an unbound narrative about the confusion, or breaking, 00:25:12.930 --> 00:25:13.800 align:middle line:90% of boundaries. 00:25:13.800 --> 00:25:18.680 align:middle line:90% 00:25:18.680 --> 00:25:22.370 align:middle line:84% What I'd like to do is read you all, actually, from a letter 00:25:22.370 --> 00:25:24.350 align:middle line:90% that David sent me in-- 00:25:24.350 --> 00:25:30.830 align:middle line:90% it's dated 2/11, from 1986. 00:25:30.830 --> 00:25:35.210 align:middle line:84% Which is when he was in Tucson, and which 00:25:35.210 --> 00:25:36.980 align:middle line:84% I thought would amuse all of you, 00:25:36.980 --> 00:25:41.210 align:middle line:84% if only because it's a writer in an MFA program, 00:25:41.210 --> 00:25:44.510 align:middle line:84% trying to get stories sold, and trying to get stories out. 00:25:44.510 --> 00:25:46.605 align:middle line:90% And I had been his agent-- 00:25:46.605 --> 00:25:48.230 align:middle line:84% I had already sold Broom of the System, 00:25:48.230 --> 00:25:51.012 align:middle line:84% and been his agent at that point for about four months. 00:25:51.012 --> 00:25:53.930 align:middle line:90% 00:25:53.930 --> 00:25:55.430 align:middle line:84% And so I just thought parts of it 00:25:55.430 --> 00:25:59.090 align:middle line:84% would amuse you, particularly as students in an MFA program, 00:25:59.090 --> 00:26:00.860 align:middle line:84% thinking of where you can send stories 00:26:00.860 --> 00:26:04.670 align:middle line:84% and how it would possibly work, and knowing 00:26:04.670 --> 00:26:08.120 align:middle line:84% how David Wallace has looked at now versus how he felt 00:26:08.120 --> 00:26:11.390 align:middle line:84% as a 25-year-old, trying to get stories, that were not 00:26:11.390 --> 00:26:14.240 align:middle line:84% like other stories, sold to people. 00:26:14.240 --> 00:26:15.950 align:middle line:84% "Dear Bonnie, greetings from witch's 00:26:15.950 --> 00:26:19.100 align:middle line:84% left tit freezing Tucson, where pipes are freezing, 00:26:19.100 --> 00:26:23.330 align:middle line:84% noses are running, and most brass monkeys are in ICU units. 00:26:23.330 --> 00:26:26.010 align:middle line:84% I've been looking over the stories I've sent you so far. 00:26:26.010 --> 00:26:27.860 align:middle line:84% I'd like to start things by asking 00:26:27.860 --> 00:26:31.070 align:middle line:84% you to send a packet of two, "Solomon Silverfish" and "Order 00:26:31.070 --> 00:26:33.317 align:middle line:84% and Flux in Northampton," both to Esquire 00:26:33.317 --> 00:26:35.150 align:middle line:84% and a really good literary periodical called 00:26:35.150 --> 00:26:36.870 align:middle line:90% Ploughshares"-- 00:26:36.870 --> 00:26:40.350 align:middle line:84% as though I didn't know where Ploughshares was-- 00:26:40.350 --> 00:26:42.870 align:middle line:84% "You may have doubts about these pieces lengthwise, 00:26:42.870 --> 00:26:44.910 align:middle line:84% but I've been over their drafts closely, 00:26:44.910 --> 00:26:48.240 align:middle line:84% and they're already cut, dried, and shaped about how I'd like. 00:26:48.240 --> 00:26:50.610 align:middle line:84% That they're a little long and involved is obvious, 00:26:50.610 --> 00:26:53.830 align:middle line:84% but nothing in either is there without a reason, 00:26:53.830 --> 00:26:57.000 align:middle line:84% and I think they're good, though somewhat off the beaten path. 00:26:57.000 --> 00:27:00.480 align:middle line:84% I'll ask you as a favor to send the two story packets out. 00:27:00.480 --> 00:27:03.330 align:middle line:84% Remind you that spring is a far, far better season 00:27:03.330 --> 00:27:05.400 align:middle line:84% to submit stuff to magazines than is summer"-- 00:27:05.400 --> 00:27:08.820 align:middle line:90% 00:27:08.820 --> 00:27:11.280 align:middle line:84% because, of course, he knows that all the students 00:27:11.280 --> 00:27:14.010 align:middle line:90% read in the spring-- 00:27:14.010 --> 00:27:15.890 align:middle line:84% "and that it's in all our interests 00:27:15.890 --> 00:27:17.640 align:middle line:84% to try and get a few of the better stories 00:27:17.640 --> 00:27:19.572 align:middle line:90% into print before '87. 00:27:19.572 --> 00:27:21.030 align:middle line:84% And I'm only sending you the things 00:27:21.030 --> 00:27:23.340 align:middle line:84% I consider the very best I do, and that you 00:27:23.340 --> 00:27:25.420 align:middle line:84% did agree to handle some short things for me 00:27:25.420 --> 00:27:29.670 align:middle line:84% too, as part of our grant agreement." 00:27:29.670 --> 00:27:32.010 align:middle line:84% And then it goes on to, "I'm hoping you have the Esquire 00:27:32.010 --> 00:27:35.690 align:middle line:90% memo, I sent you a copy of it. 00:27:35.690 --> 00:27:38.050 align:middle line:84% It has the name and exact address of the fiction editor 00:27:38.050 --> 00:27:39.280 align:middle line:90% there who expressed interest. 00:27:39.280 --> 00:27:40.540 align:middle line:84% The address for Ploughshares is," 00:27:40.540 --> 00:27:42.460 align:middle line:84% and he gives me the address for Ploughshares. 00:27:42.460 --> 00:27:46.120 align:middle line:84% Right, so, "What I'd like to just try to do 00:27:46.120 --> 00:27:48.880 align:middle line:84% is send out some of the stuff to a few places at a time. 00:27:48.880 --> 00:27:50.860 align:middle line:84% If after three or four rounds of sending out, 00:27:50.860 --> 00:27:53.620 align:middle line:84% there's nary a nibble, I'll reconsider your advice 00:27:53.620 --> 00:27:57.850 align:middle line:84% about serious editing on some of the longer material. 00:27:57.850 --> 00:27:59.440 align:middle line:84% I know our tastes on short material 00:27:59.440 --> 00:28:01.420 align:middle line:90% are not always congruent. 00:28:01.420 --> 00:28:03.520 align:middle line:84% I guess I'm just asking you to humor me 00:28:03.520 --> 00:28:05.200 align:middle line:90% a bit here at the beginning. 00:28:05.200 --> 00:28:07.300 align:middle line:90% Both magazines require an SASE. 00:28:07.300 --> 00:28:10.540 align:middle line:84% I'm enclosing a $5 check to help cover mailing 00:28:10.540 --> 00:28:14.255 align:middle line:84% and whatever copying costs you incur with these two packets." 00:28:14.255 --> 00:28:15.880 align:middle line:84% And then it says, "I should fairly soon 00:28:15.880 --> 00:28:19.147 align:middle line:84% have three more stories for you," and goes on from that. 00:28:19.147 --> 00:28:20.980 align:middle line:84% "hopefully with your letterhead, and mention 00:28:20.980 --> 00:28:22.930 align:middle line:84% of the impending novel, I can at least 00:28:22.930 --> 00:28:25.930 align:middle line:90% skip one level of slush pile." 00:28:25.930 --> 00:28:28.570 align:middle line:84% It's good to know that even David in those days, 00:28:28.570 --> 00:28:31.630 align:middle line:84% it was about being in the slush pile. 00:28:31.630 --> 00:28:35.140 align:middle line:84% And I have probably five years of letters 00:28:35.140 --> 00:28:38.770 align:middle line:84% from magazines saying-- gee, no thanks, gee, 00:28:38.770 --> 00:28:43.090 align:middle line:84% not our cup of tea, ah, just not right for us, and over and over 00:28:43.090 --> 00:28:43.730 align:middle line:90% again. 00:28:43.730 --> 00:28:46.750 align:middle line:84% And so it's interesting to hear you talk about Girl 00:28:46.750 --> 00:28:49.450 align:middle line:84% with Curious Hair because, of course, 00:28:49.450 --> 00:28:51.430 align:middle line:84% those stories were very hard to sell, 00:28:51.430 --> 00:28:53.810 align:middle line:84% because they weren't what everyone else was doing. 00:28:53.810 --> 00:28:56.530 align:middle line:84% And one of my favorite stories in that collection 00:28:56.530 --> 00:28:58.750 align:middle line:84% is called "Lyndon," where he-- which is 00:28:58.750 --> 00:29:00.925 align:middle line:84% written in the voice of Lyndon Johnson. 00:29:00.925 --> 00:29:05.680 align:middle line:84% And the only place I could get to publish that story 00:29:05.680 --> 00:29:07.900 align:middle line:84% was a magazine, in Berkeley, called 00:29:07.900 --> 00:29:11.350 align:middle line:84% Arrival, which was run by a friend of mine, 00:29:11.350 --> 00:29:14.410 align:middle line:84% who I befriended to actually sort of-- 00:29:14.410 --> 00:29:17.650 align:middle line:84% I became his friend because I knew he would get this, 00:29:17.650 --> 00:29:19.228 align:middle line:84% and that he would publish the story. 00:29:19.228 --> 00:29:21.520 align:middle line:84% And then, of course, the magazine went out of business. 00:29:21.520 --> 00:29:24.010 align:middle line:84% But that was the first place it was. 00:29:24.010 --> 00:29:26.410 align:middle line:84% And I sent copies to editors in New York 00:29:26.410 --> 00:29:28.960 align:middle line:84% who I knew would like it, including Michael Pietsch 00:29:28.960 --> 00:29:32.080 align:middle line:84% who, of course, became David's long term editor at Little 00:29:32.080 --> 00:29:35.770 align:middle line:84% Brown, and is now editing this unfinished novel called 00:29:35.770 --> 00:29:37.690 align:middle line:90% The Pale King. 00:29:37.690 --> 00:29:39.260 align:middle line:90% So, oh I-- 00:29:39.260 --> 00:29:40.850 align:middle line:90% OK, never mind. 00:29:40.850 --> 00:29:41.350 align:middle line:90% Thank you. 00:29:41.350 --> 00:29:42.730 align:middle line:84% I think there are, probably, a lot of questions 00:29:42.730 --> 00:29:44.410 align:middle line:84% that you guys would all like to ask, 00:29:44.410 --> 00:29:45.965 align:middle line:90% and that I would like to ask. 00:29:45.965 --> 00:29:47.590 align:middle line:84% First, it occurred to me I maybe didn't 00:29:47.590 --> 00:29:50.440 align:middle line:84% do a very good job of contextualizing the Sonora 00:29:50.440 --> 00:29:52.640 align:middle line:84% Review tribute feature that we're talking about. 00:29:52.640 --> 00:29:54.700 align:middle line:84% So in case anyone is unaware-- and I didn't maybe 00:29:54.700 --> 00:29:55.658 align:middle line:90% explain that very well. 00:29:55.658 --> 00:29:58.483 align:middle line:84% We've just published two double issues that are bound 00:29:58.483 --> 00:29:59.650 align:middle line:90% together-- they're outside-- 00:29:59.650 --> 00:30:01.060 align:middle line:90% in the middle of which is-- 00:30:01.060 --> 00:30:03.970 align:middle line:90% well, a double with two total-- 00:30:03.970 --> 00:30:06.760 align:middle line:84% in the middle of which is about a 100 page tribute 00:30:06.760 --> 00:30:08.560 align:middle line:84% feature to the work of David Foster Wallace 00:30:08.560 --> 00:30:10.477 align:middle line:84% that all of our panelists have contributed to. 00:30:10.477 --> 00:30:12.785 align:middle line:84% With the exception of Bonnie, who actually gave us-- 00:30:12.785 --> 00:30:15.160 align:middle line:84% she did contribute, but she gave us "Solomon Silverfish," 00:30:15.160 --> 00:30:17.120 align:middle line:84% the story that she was just reading about, 00:30:17.120 --> 00:30:19.310 align:middle line:84% which is reprinted in the tribute as well. 00:30:19.310 --> 00:30:21.460 align:middle line:84% So, in case I didn't explain that very well. 00:30:21.460 --> 00:30:23.335 align:middle line:84% I was thinking, maybe, if we could even just, 00:30:23.335 --> 00:30:25.970 align:middle line:84% sort of, go in order again-- or whoever wants to respond-- 00:30:25.970 --> 00:30:27.970 align:middle line:84% since we were talking about reading David Foster 00:30:27.970 --> 00:30:29.470 align:middle line:90% Wallace in this panel. 00:30:29.470 --> 00:30:30.970 align:middle line:84% I was wondering if each of you could 00:30:30.970 --> 00:30:34.900 align:middle line:84% respond to the importance of reading David Foster Wallace, 00:30:34.900 --> 00:30:38.193 align:middle line:84% either for you personally or, as Charles sort of alluded 00:30:38.193 --> 00:30:40.360 align:middle line:84% to, the importance, obviously, for many writers that 00:30:40.360 --> 00:30:41.990 align:middle line:90% have followed. 00:30:41.990 --> 00:30:45.115 align:middle line:84% But if you could respond to that somewhat formless question. 00:30:45.115 --> 00:30:47.930 align:middle line:90% 00:30:47.930 --> 00:30:48.430 align:middle line:90% Any of you? 00:30:48.430 --> 00:30:51.040 align:middle line:84% You could start down at that end, or-- 00:30:51.040 --> 00:30:52.680 align:middle line:90% OK. 00:30:52.680 --> 00:30:54.940 align:middle line:84% OK, I guess we'll going in order again. 00:30:54.940 --> 00:30:58.030 align:middle line:84% For me, as I began to say before, it was just, 00:30:58.030 --> 00:31:02.350 align:middle line:84% say, oh yeah, a guy can do something. 00:31:02.350 --> 00:31:05.020 align:middle line:84% Someone once said to me that you can't really 00:31:05.020 --> 00:31:08.483 align:middle line:84% get away with too much in fiction, which isn't true. 00:31:08.483 --> 00:31:10.150 align:middle line:84% In fact, you can get away with anything, 00:31:10.150 --> 00:31:14.260 align:middle line:84% if it's right, if it works, if it's good. 00:31:14.260 --> 00:31:19.870 align:middle line:84% And David's stories said, oh, yeah, 00:31:19.870 --> 00:31:22.420 align:middle line:84% you could write about this kind of thinking, 00:31:22.420 --> 00:31:24.640 align:middle line:90% or this kind of doubts-- 00:31:24.640 --> 00:31:27.160 align:middle line:84% of doubt, or this kind of situation, 00:31:27.160 --> 00:31:28.750 align:middle line:90% and make it work sufficiently. 00:31:28.750 --> 00:31:33.310 align:middle line:84% So it gave me that encouragement, not only as 00:31:33.310 --> 00:31:35.590 align:middle line:84% a writer, that I could try different things myself, 00:31:35.590 --> 00:31:38.980 align:middle line:84% but as a reader, to open my open my mind to what else 00:31:38.980 --> 00:31:40.630 align:middle line:84% what else I would enjoy as a reader. 00:31:40.630 --> 00:31:42.880 align:middle line:84% And that was pretty important for me. 00:31:42.880 --> 00:31:45.160 align:middle line:84% Can you say, Ken, just out of curiosity, 00:31:45.160 --> 00:31:47.565 align:middle line:84% had you already read any of Wallace's work? 00:31:47.565 --> 00:31:49.315 align:middle line:84% Or were you aware of him at all when you-- 00:31:49.315 --> 00:31:49.950 align:middle line:90% When I first got 00:31:49.950 --> 00:31:51.075 align:middle line:90% --were in contact with him? 00:31:51.075 --> 00:31:54.905 align:middle line:90% No, as I mentioned I-- 00:31:54.905 --> 00:31:56.530 align:middle line:84% actually I'm not sure, but I think not. 00:31:56.530 --> 00:31:59.320 align:middle line:90% Because I had just sent-- 00:31:59.320 --> 00:32:03.640 align:middle line:84% I was sending stories out then, and I sent Sonora Review, 00:32:03.640 --> 00:32:07.720 align:middle line:84% but why did I send it to Sonora Review? 00:32:07.720 --> 00:32:09.980 align:middle line:84% Actually, that's a good question. 00:32:09.980 --> 00:32:11.320 align:middle line:90% I don't know, Sorry. 00:32:11.320 --> 00:32:14.020 align:middle line:84% It was a long time-- it was a long time ago. 00:32:14.020 --> 00:32:16.920 align:middle line:84% Was Broom of the System the first thing of his read, then? 00:32:16.920 --> 00:32:18.210 align:middle line:90% Yeah, I think-- 00:32:18.210 --> 00:32:19.500 align:middle line:90% Or did you-- 00:32:19.500 --> 00:32:21.330 align:middle line:90% Yeah, I think so. 00:32:21.330 --> 00:32:24.990 align:middle line:90% 00:32:24.990 --> 00:32:28.050 align:middle line:84% Now you've asked that question directly, I'm not sure, sorry. 00:32:28.050 --> 00:32:30.280 align:middle line:90% I'll think about it over coffee. 00:32:30.280 --> 00:32:30.780 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:32:30.780 --> 00:32:35.770 align:middle line:90% 00:32:35.770 --> 00:32:38.210 align:middle line:90% "Lyndon." 00:32:38.210 --> 00:32:40.910 align:middle line:90% You cannot fuck with "Lyndon". 00:32:40.910 --> 00:32:44.750 align:middle line:90% It's unbelievable, that story. 00:32:44.750 --> 00:32:49.850 align:middle line:84% "Lyndon" and "Girl with the Curious Hair"-- 00:32:49.850 --> 00:32:56.720 align:middle line:84% if you're a writer of my age, or in that ballpark, 00:32:56.720 --> 00:33:00.470 align:middle line:90% you had to read those stories. 00:33:00.470 --> 00:33:05.930 align:middle line:84% There's just no way around it, everyone read those stories. 00:33:05.930 --> 00:33:11.490 align:middle line:84% Infinite Jest comes out, and it's Sven Birkerts-- 00:33:11.490 --> 00:33:14.910 align:middle line:84% who actually was a teacher at the grad school I went 00:33:14.910 --> 00:33:19.950 align:middle line:84% to, and who contributes in this issue-- 00:33:19.950 --> 00:33:21.840 align:middle line:84% the month before it came out, he asked 00:33:21.840 --> 00:33:25.200 align:middle line:84% if I knew about the generation buster that was going to come, 00:33:25.200 --> 00:33:27.180 align:middle line:90% that was about to come out. 00:33:27.180 --> 00:33:30.390 align:middle line:84% And I didn't, because I'm a student. 00:33:30.390 --> 00:33:38.890 align:middle line:84% I don't know anything until it shows up in the bookstore. 00:33:38.890 --> 00:33:42.420 align:middle line:84% And he says who it's by, and I almost did a dance. 00:33:42.420 --> 00:33:45.780 align:middle line:90% 00:33:45.780 --> 00:33:50.310 align:middle line:84% It's like-- the god that you've actually 00:33:50.310 --> 00:33:56.130 align:middle line:84% been praying to, he fucking shows up, like, there it is. 00:33:56.130 --> 00:33:59.850 align:middle line:84% And pardon my French I'm sorry, I'll 00:33:59.850 --> 00:34:04.530 align:middle line:84% try and keep the act for the kids. 00:34:04.530 --> 00:34:08.010 align:middle line:84% And I think this one thing is that, 00:34:08.010 --> 00:34:10.260 align:middle line:84% because now his voice is so imitated-- 00:34:10.260 --> 00:34:14.159 align:middle line:84% in any alt-weekly you have writers trying to write like 00:34:14.159 --> 00:34:15.780 align:middle line:90% David Foster Wallace-- 00:34:15.780 --> 00:34:19.679 align:middle line:84% that there's so much that's been kind of diluted, 00:34:19.679 --> 00:34:26.280 align:middle line:84% that every writer has tried tricks that Dave adopted. 00:34:26.280 --> 00:34:31.620 align:middle line:84% But the one thing that I had to grow into, and stop, maybe, 00:34:31.620 --> 00:34:33.120 align:middle line:84% trying to write like him, and trying 00:34:33.120 --> 00:34:38.850 align:middle line:84% to write like Rick Moody, and kind of grow into, and learn 00:34:38.850 --> 00:34:41.639 align:middle line:90% about was, what's my voice? 00:34:41.639 --> 00:34:45.030 align:middle line:84% And that it's OK to be whatever freak I am, 00:34:45.030 --> 00:34:47.429 align:middle line:84% or whatever freaky stories I have, 00:34:47.429 --> 00:34:51.480 align:middle line:84% or whatever I need to get out there and say, 00:34:51.480 --> 00:34:54.840 align:middle line:90% that it's fine to not be-- 00:34:54.840 --> 00:35:00.240 align:middle line:84% to absorb a little bit, but to find my path. 00:35:00.240 --> 00:35:11.070 align:middle line:84% And I think reading him, for any young writer, that's a lesson. 00:35:11.070 --> 00:35:14.130 align:middle line:84% Because you're not going to have as good a vocabulary as David 00:35:14.130 --> 00:35:14.895 align:middle line:90% Foster Wallace. 00:35:14.895 --> 00:35:16.140 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:35:16.140 --> 00:35:20.970 align:middle line:84% The dude was on the OED board, you know? 00:35:20.970 --> 00:35:23.880 align:middle line:90% So don't try that. 00:35:23.880 --> 00:35:28.990 align:middle line:84% Anyway, that would be my little spiel for that. 00:35:28.990 --> 00:35:31.450 align:middle line:90% Can we pause real quick? 00:35:31.450 --> 00:35:34.474 align:middle line:84% You want to know where they came from? 00:35:34.474 --> 00:35:35.470 align:middle line:90% [INAUDIBLE] 00:35:35.470 --> 00:35:36.810 align:middle line:90% "Lyndon". 00:35:36.810 --> 00:35:38.650 align:middle line:90% Girl with Curious Hair. 00:35:38.650 --> 00:35:39.400 align:middle line:90% Oh, right here. 00:35:39.400 --> 00:35:40.320 align:middle line:90% Everything else. 00:35:40.320 --> 00:35:43.540 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:35:43.540 --> 00:35:45.770 align:middle line:84% I don't even understand the question. 00:35:45.770 --> 00:35:48.130 align:middle line:90% Sure, sure, I do want to know. 00:35:48.130 --> 00:35:50.270 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:35:50.270 --> 00:35:51.943 align:middle line:90% Gardner was popular. 00:35:51.943 --> 00:36:03.935 align:middle line:84% [INAUDIBLE] they forgot all the wonder of Gardner, 00:36:03.935 --> 00:36:11.050 align:middle line:84% and looking at [INAUDIBLE] on, you know, fiction. 00:36:11.050 --> 00:36:14.708 align:middle line:84% On Moral Fiction, on the other hand was [INAUDIBLE] You know-- 00:36:14.708 --> 00:36:16.684 align:middle line:90% Mhm. 00:36:16.684 --> 00:36:24.094 align:middle line:84% [INAUDIBLE] And when you get this part right, 00:36:24.094 --> 00:36:36.938 align:middle line:90% take [INAUDIBLE] Dave was young. 00:36:36.938 --> 00:36:39.408 align:middle line:84% And we were discussing these things 00:36:39.408 --> 00:36:42.090 align:middle line:84% because-- well, many reasons, but mostly 00:36:42.090 --> 00:36:47.361 align:middle line:84% because of what a strange place [INAUDIBLE] back home. 00:36:47.361 --> 00:36:58.690 align:middle line:84% The farm [INAUDIBLE] and Dave was not a [INAUDIBLE] --but he 00:36:58.690 --> 00:37:06.138 align:middle line:84% was the golden boy [INAUDIBLE] Have you ever seen [INAUDIBLE] 00:37:06.138 --> 00:37:09.547 align:middle line:90% movie, [INAUDIBLE] Tim Robbins-- 00:37:09.547 --> 00:37:11.590 align:middle line:90% Field of-- oh, Bull Durham. 00:37:11.590 --> 00:37:12.100 align:middle line:90% Bull Durham. 00:37:12.100 --> 00:37:13.078 align:middle line:90% Thanks. 00:37:13.078 --> 00:37:21.855 align:middle line:84% [INAUDIBLE] And strangely enough, my father 00:37:21.855 --> 00:37:27.561 align:middle line:84% would film [INAUDIBLE] And we began 00:37:27.561 --> 00:37:37.830 align:middle line:84% talking about movies [INAUDIBLE] and [INAUDIBLE] 00:37:37.830 --> 00:37:42.288 align:middle line:90% and the [INAUDIBLE] 00:37:42.288 --> 00:37:44.080 align:middle line:84% That's right, because the narrative of that 00:37:44.080 --> 00:37:45.463 align:middle line:90% is as a gay man. 00:37:45.463 --> 00:37:45.980 align:middle line:90% Of course. 00:37:45.980 --> 00:37:46.480 align:middle line:90% Yeah 00:37:46.480 --> 00:37:46.980 align:middle line:90% Mhm. 00:37:46.980 --> 00:37:48.905 align:middle line:90% And it was Dave's moment. 00:37:48.905 --> 00:37:50.100 align:middle line:90% 1986. 00:37:50.100 --> 00:37:50.600 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:37:50.600 --> 00:37:55.440 align:middle line:90% 00:37:55.440 --> 00:37:59.494 align:middle line:84% Girl with Curious Hair is hard to explain. 00:37:59.494 --> 00:38:03.406 align:middle line:84% One of the first times Dave and I met, he 00:38:03.406 --> 00:38:12.710 align:middle line:84% was saying that [INAUDIBLE] And I was playing king [INAUDIBLE] 00:38:12.710 --> 00:38:14.407 align:middle line:84% and telling him about me about going 00:38:14.407 --> 00:38:18.045 align:middle line:84% to see the Grateful Dead in San Francisco [INAUDIBLE] 00:38:18.045 --> 00:38:20.470 align:middle line:90% punk rock [INAUDIBLE] punk rock. 00:38:20.470 --> 00:38:23.890 align:middle line:90% 00:38:23.890 --> 00:38:31.603 align:middle line:84% And two days later, Dave walks up to me, and he says, 00:38:31.603 --> 00:38:38.998 align:middle line:84% [INAUDIBLE] and he danced with a girl with the curious hair. 00:38:38.998 --> 00:38:43.435 align:middle line:90% 00:38:43.435 --> 00:38:50.394 align:middle line:84% And I said, Dave, hey, that's not my story. 00:38:50.394 --> 00:38:58.560 align:middle line:84% [INAUDIBLE] Because Dave felt that, if he wrote about Dave, 00:38:58.560 --> 00:39:05.770 align:middle line:84% [INAUDIBLE] sat in the smoking lounge [INAUDIBLE] 00:39:05.770 --> 00:39:09.990 align:middle line:84% intensely considering the next moment. 00:39:09.990 --> 00:39:12.420 align:middle line:90% And then he'd repeat it. 00:39:12.420 --> 00:39:14.850 align:middle line:90% [INAUDIBLE] 00:39:14.850 --> 00:39:27.700 align:middle line:84% And that would be [INAUDIBLE] South Americans, [INAUDIBLE] 00:39:27.700 --> 00:39:29.890 align:middle line:84% There was an attempt to start non-fiction writing 00:39:29.890 --> 00:39:34.640 align:middle line:84% program here that was squashed, and there was a great rebellion 00:39:34.640 --> 00:39:35.620 align:middle line:90% in the writing program. 00:39:35.620 --> 00:39:39.530 align:middle line:90% 00:39:39.530 --> 00:39:41.420 align:middle line:84% It caused a lot of heartache and problems 00:39:41.420 --> 00:39:48.560 align:middle line:84% [INAUDIBLE] Dave split away, because he was better published 00:39:48.560 --> 00:39:49.850 align:middle line:90% than the professors already. 00:39:49.850 --> 00:39:53.710 align:middle line:90% 00:39:53.710 --> 00:39:59.370 align:middle line:90% Dave would workshop [INAUDIBLE] 00:39:59.370 --> 00:40:02.730 align:middle line:84% Well, workshops are actually in that book, "Girl with Curious 00:40:02.730 --> 00:40:05.028 align:middle line:90% Hair," as you know. 00:40:05.028 --> 00:40:05.740 align:middle line:90% The novella? 00:40:05.740 --> 00:40:06.240 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:40:06.240 --> 00:40:07.632 align:middle line:90% That came afterwards. 00:40:07.632 --> 00:40:09.490 align:middle line:84% He wrote that mostly in [INAUDIBLE] 00:40:09.490 --> 00:40:10.772 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:40:10.772 --> 00:40:12.680 align:middle line:84% But if you looked at-- oh, I'm sorry. 00:40:12.680 --> 00:40:13.388 align:middle line:90% That's all right. 00:40:13.388 --> 00:40:14.285 align:middle line:90% [INAUDIBLE] 00:40:14.285 --> 00:40:15.560 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:40:15.560 --> 00:40:16.874 align:middle line:90% Well, that was-- 00:40:16.874 --> 00:40:17.374 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHS] 00:40:17.374 --> 00:40:18.055 align:middle line:90% No problem. 00:40:18.055 --> 00:40:18.680 align:middle line:90% You're welcome. 00:40:18.680 --> 00:40:20.584 align:middle line:90% [INAUDIBLE] 00:40:20.584 --> 00:40:22.490 align:middle line:90% No. 00:40:22.490 --> 00:40:23.371 align:middle line:90% Well, my-- 00:40:23.371 --> 00:40:24.835 align:middle line:90% Far better than not. 00:40:24.835 --> 00:40:25.335 align:middle line:90% My-- 00:40:25.335 --> 00:40:26.810 align:middle line:90% [INAUDIBLE] value. 00:40:26.810 --> 00:40:30.625 align:middle line:84% My encounter with that first book, Girl with Curious H-- 00:40:30.625 --> 00:40:32.750 align:middle line:84% "Broom of the System" came from my younger brother, 00:40:32.750 --> 00:40:34.545 align:middle line:90% whose name is Robert Boswell. 00:40:34.545 --> 00:40:36.920 align:middle line:84% And he picked up the book because it was dedicated-- it-- 00:40:36.920 --> 00:40:39.410 align:middle line:84% Robert Boswell was acknowledged on the acknowledgments page. 00:40:39.410 --> 00:40:42.035 align:middle line:84% And he said, I just bought this book because my name was in it, 00:40:42.035 --> 00:40:43.610 align:middle line:90% and you would like it. 00:40:43.610 --> 00:40:45.110 align:middle line:84% He called me while I was in college. 00:40:45.110 --> 00:40:47.360 align:middle line:84% And I was in college at the time, and as I was saying, 00:40:47.360 --> 00:40:49.280 align:middle line:84% and here, I was trying to write, and I 00:40:49.280 --> 00:40:50.750 align:middle line:90% was reading a lot of Carver. 00:40:50.750 --> 00:40:53.210 align:middle line:84% I was reading what was popular at the time, 00:40:53.210 --> 00:40:56.600 align:middle line:84% but I was also secretly reading Barth and Pynchon, 00:40:56.600 --> 00:40:57.830 align:middle line:90% at that time. 00:40:57.830 --> 00:41:00.598 align:middle line:84% And I was also taking a course in critical theory, 00:41:00.598 --> 00:41:03.140 align:middle line:84% but at the same time that I was reading Derrida on one class, 00:41:03.140 --> 00:41:05.870 align:middle line:84% I had a philosopher teaching me Wittgenstein, 00:41:05.870 --> 00:41:08.600 align:middle line:84% who was telling me, Derrida was wrong, read Wittgenstein. 00:41:08.600 --> 00:41:11.480 align:middle line:84% And at once, this novel landed on my lap 00:41:11.480 --> 00:41:15.110 align:middle line:84% that is this homage to Pynchon and Barth, 00:41:15.110 --> 00:41:17.750 align:middle line:84% and an elaborate inquiry into language 00:41:17.750 --> 00:41:20.060 align:middle line:90% by way of Wittgenstein. 00:41:20.060 --> 00:41:22.040 align:middle line:84% It felt like this novel built out 00:41:22.040 --> 00:41:25.040 align:middle line:84% of coordinate points that was the interior of my head, 00:41:25.040 --> 00:41:28.730 align:middle line:84% and that was the first thing I grafted onto. 00:41:28.730 --> 00:41:31.130 align:middle line:84% But then, thinking about postmodernism 00:41:31.130 --> 00:41:33.380 align:middle line:84% as a kind of retrograde movement in the '80s, 00:41:33.380 --> 00:41:35.330 align:middle line:84% it had kind of fallen into disrepute. 00:41:35.330 --> 00:41:36.902 align:middle line:90% The shift for me of-- 00:41:36.902 --> 00:41:39.110 align:middle line:84% in Girl with Curious Hair, what makes it so powerful, 00:41:39.110 --> 00:41:42.470 align:middle line:84% why I think it's the great advance in Wallace's art is, 00:41:42.470 --> 00:41:45.920 align:middle line:84% because the pop culture TV stuff in that book 00:41:45.920 --> 00:41:48.617 align:middle line:84% anticipates what he talks about in that essay, 00:41:48.617 --> 00:41:50.450 align:middle line:84% "E Unibus Pluram," which I think most of you 00:41:50.450 --> 00:41:51.590 align:middle line:90% probably have encountered. 00:41:51.590 --> 00:41:53.480 align:middle line:84% He performs it in "Girl with Curious Hair," 00:41:53.480 --> 00:41:56.450 align:middle line:84% before he describes what he's up to. 00:41:56.450 --> 00:41:59.780 align:middle line:84% But what he analyzed, and I think what is so important 00:41:59.780 --> 00:42:04.115 align:middle line:84% about him, was that the literary turn toward meta-fiction-- 00:42:04.115 --> 00:42:05.990 align:middle line:84% which happens in the '60s, a kind of reaction 00:42:05.990 --> 00:42:09.050 align:middle line:90% to the exhaustion of modernism-- 00:42:09.050 --> 00:42:12.290 align:middle line:84% Wallace saw, as the air we were breathing, 00:42:12.290 --> 00:42:15.650 align:middle line:84% the pop culture had caught up with self-reflexivity 00:42:15.650 --> 00:42:18.000 align:middle line:84% of postmodernism, and now TV has done it. 00:42:18.000 --> 00:42:22.940 align:middle line:84% And since we all breathe that air of self-conscious irony 00:42:22.940 --> 00:42:26.345 align:middle line:84% and solipsism, he began to think-- 00:42:26.345 --> 00:42:28.070 align:middle line:84% I think those books start to chart 00:42:28.070 --> 00:42:30.500 align:middle line:84% a way of using the exact techniques that 00:42:30.500 --> 00:42:34.460 align:middle line:84% got us into that mess as a way of getting us out. 00:42:34.460 --> 00:42:36.410 align:middle line:84% And when you read "Girl with Curious Hair," 00:42:36.410 --> 00:42:38.060 align:middle line:84% particularly if you read it in 1989, 00:42:38.060 --> 00:42:40.268 align:middle line:84% it was hard to figure out why that was so liberating. 00:42:40.268 --> 00:42:42.500 align:middle line:84% You felt a window was being opened 00:42:42.500 --> 00:42:45.320 align:middle line:84% on a new way of thinking, and it was 00:42:45.320 --> 00:42:47.240 align:middle line:84% hard to articulate until he articulated it 00:42:47.240 --> 00:42:48.300 align:middle line:90% for us in those essays. 00:42:48.300 --> 00:42:49.070 align:middle line:90% But I think-- 00:42:49.070 --> 00:42:52.640 align:middle line:84% I remember being very attentive to the possibilities that he 00:42:52.640 --> 00:42:54.840 align:middle line:84% laid out in that second book, and it stuck with me. 00:42:54.840 --> 00:42:56.900 align:middle line:84% That's when I started praying to that god, 00:42:56.900 --> 00:42:59.900 align:middle line:84% and I want him to appear, and he did seven years later, 00:42:59.900 --> 00:43:02.690 align:middle line:90% with Infinite Jest. 00:43:02.690 --> 00:43:04.910 align:middle line:84% Yeah, I'd reiterate what Charles said. 00:43:04.910 --> 00:43:06.440 align:middle line:90% The voice, you know. 00:43:06.440 --> 00:43:09.140 align:middle line:90% 00:43:09.140 --> 00:43:11.450 align:middle line:84% At the time, I didn't really care 00:43:11.450 --> 00:43:14.030 align:middle line:84% for much contemporary American fiction. 00:43:14.030 --> 00:43:16.670 align:middle line:84% I didn't care much for Carver, I certainly 00:43:16.670 --> 00:43:18.260 align:middle line:84% didn't care for Bret Easton Ellis, 00:43:18.260 --> 00:43:19.880 align:middle line:84% I still don't care for Jay McInerney, 00:43:19.880 --> 00:43:21.380 align:middle line:84% I didn't care for any of that stuff. 00:43:21.380 --> 00:43:23.900 align:middle line:84% I liked Martin Amis, but he always brought me up short 00:43:23.900 --> 00:43:26.250 align:middle line:90% in some fundamental way. 00:43:26.250 --> 00:43:29.370 align:middle line:84% So I was reading what I read-- a lot of French stuff. 00:43:29.370 --> 00:43:31.310 align:middle line:84% And I remember getting Infinite Jest, 00:43:31.310 --> 00:43:34.640 align:middle line:84% and reading the first 20 pages, and just saying, 00:43:34.640 --> 00:43:38.150 align:middle line:84% yes, this is the guy, I recognize this, 00:43:38.150 --> 00:43:42.200 align:middle line:90% I understand this, I love this. 00:43:42.200 --> 00:43:47.720 align:middle line:84% Reading 20 page footnote-laden description of Don Gately going 00:43:47.720 --> 00:43:49.790 align:middle line:90% to the supermarket-- 00:43:49.790 --> 00:43:53.690 align:middle line:84% I want it to go on for 100 pages. 00:43:53.690 --> 00:43:57.830 align:middle line:84% There was so much pleasure to it, and so sharp, so smart, 00:43:57.830 --> 00:44:01.873 align:middle line:84% so fucking funny, oh god, I did it. 00:44:01.873 --> 00:44:03.290 align:middle line:84% After you did it, I was going to-- 00:44:03.290 --> 00:44:06.050 align:middle line:84% I'm not going to do that, no, no. 00:44:06.050 --> 00:44:09.030 align:middle line:84% And with a sincerity and an ethic-- 00:44:09.030 --> 00:44:14.900 align:middle line:84% a very profound philosophical ethic to it 00:44:14.900 --> 00:44:16.740 align:middle line:90% that is just staggering. 00:44:16.740 --> 00:44:19.850 align:middle line:90% And this was my guy, absolutely. 00:44:19.850 --> 00:44:23.150 align:middle line:90% And then getting to edit him. 00:44:23.150 --> 00:44:25.010 align:middle line:90% You know, wow. 00:44:25.010 --> 00:44:28.340 align:middle line:84% Being part of shaping that voice, and doing these things, 00:44:28.340 --> 00:44:31.100 align:middle line:84% trying to make these things work in the context of a mainstream 00:44:31.100 --> 00:44:36.980 align:middle line:84% magazine, and becoming friends with him, and so on, and-- 00:44:36.980 --> 00:44:39.350 align:middle line:84% But always, always, always the voice, 00:44:39.350 --> 00:44:44.970 align:middle line:84% always the virtuosity, always the mix 00:44:44.970 --> 00:44:48.230 align:middle line:84% of incredibly acute perception and an inability 00:44:48.230 --> 00:44:51.800 align:middle line:84% to lie, so that sometimes what he's telling you 00:44:51.800 --> 00:44:54.410 align:middle line:84% looks like it's cruel, but it's right. 00:44:54.410 --> 00:44:56.120 align:middle line:84% This is actually related to what I'm 00:44:56.120 --> 00:44:58.580 align:middle line:84% going to read from "Big Red Son" tonight, but-- 00:44:58.580 --> 00:45:02.215 align:middle line:84% so please make sure you come for that. 00:45:02.215 --> 00:45:02.840 align:middle line:90% And it's funny. 00:45:02.840 --> 00:45:05.820 align:middle line:84% The erudition is very funny, and I have one kind of funny story 00:45:05.820 --> 00:45:06.320 align:middle line:90% to tell. 00:45:06.320 --> 00:45:11.890 align:middle line:84% Because erudition breeds erudition, in a way, 00:45:11.890 --> 00:45:16.180 align:middle line:84% to the extent that you sort of can't tell certain things 00:45:16.180 --> 00:45:17.350 align:middle line:90% from the other things-- 00:45:17.350 --> 00:45:19.330 align:middle line:84% allusions that are deliberate or not. 00:45:19.330 --> 00:45:21.790 align:middle line:84% When we were in Vegas, and we were at the AVN Awards, 00:45:21.790 --> 00:45:24.910 align:middle line:84% we were in the ballroom of Caesar's Palace-- 00:45:24.910 --> 00:45:27.280 align:middle line:84% a great spot, you should all visit it if you can-- 00:45:27.280 --> 00:45:31.013 align:middle line:84% and they had a lot of banners up for upcoming events. 00:45:31.013 --> 00:45:33.430 align:middle line:84% And there was one upcoming event that was called Kontakte. 00:45:33.430 --> 00:45:36.730 align:middle line:84% That was spelled in the German spelling with a K-- 00:45:36.730 --> 00:45:38.950 align:middle line:90% K,o, n,t, a,k, t,e. 00:45:38.950 --> 00:45:40.600 align:middle line:84% And I said to Dave, I'm like, oh, 00:45:40.600 --> 00:45:43.900 align:middle line:84% wow, look I didn't know they were booking like Schoenberg 00:45:43.900 --> 00:45:46.450 align:middle line:90% pieces for Caesar's Palace. 00:45:46.450 --> 00:45:48.220 align:middle line:90% And he says, I'm sorry-- 00:45:48.220 --> 00:45:51.010 align:middle line:84% Stockhausen-- Stockhausen pieces for Caesar's Palace. 00:45:51.010 --> 00:45:52.610 align:middle line:90% He says, what do you mean? 00:45:52.610 --> 00:45:54.790 align:middle line:84% I said well, Kontakte, that's a famous piano piece 00:45:54.790 --> 00:45:57.250 align:middle line:84% by Karlheinz Stockhausen, the German composer. 00:45:57.250 --> 00:46:00.280 align:middle line:84% You dropped his name in Infinite Jest. 00:46:00.280 --> 00:46:02.992 align:middle line:84% He said, yeah, I just kind of liked the name, 00:46:02.992 --> 00:46:04.450 align:middle line:84% I don't really know who the guy is. 00:46:04.450 --> 00:46:07.630 align:middle line:84% [LAUGHS] I'm like, you should check him out man. 00:46:07.630 --> 00:46:10.955 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:46:10.955 --> 00:46:11.910 align:middle line:90% 00:46:11.910 --> 00:46:14.420 align:middle line:90% It's interesting to think back-- 00:46:14.420 --> 00:46:18.115 align:middle line:90% I read Infinite Jest in 2001. 00:46:18.115 --> 00:46:19.990 align:middle line:84% And you don't realize when you're reading it, 00:46:19.990 --> 00:46:23.090 align:middle line:84% how it's going to become this thing that obsesses you 00:46:23.090 --> 00:46:24.690 align:middle line:90% for the rest of your life. 00:46:24.690 --> 00:46:27.872 align:middle line:84% But I remember being sick in January and thinking, 00:46:27.872 --> 00:46:29.330 align:middle line:84% oh, I'm so glad I'm sick so I don't 00:46:29.330 --> 00:46:30.538 align:middle line:90% have to work or teach today-- 00:46:30.538 --> 00:46:34.220 align:middle line:84% I can read 200 pages of this book. 00:46:34.220 --> 00:46:36.650 align:middle line:84% And at the t-- knowing that I was drawn to it, 00:46:36.650 --> 00:46:37.700 align:middle line:90% and not knowing why. 00:46:37.700 --> 00:46:40.370 align:middle line:84% Wanting to-- I need to reread this, why am I drawn to this, 00:46:40.370 --> 00:46:41.690 align:middle line:90% what is so-- 00:46:41.690 --> 00:46:43.730 align:middle line:90% you feel like you're in it. 00:46:43.730 --> 00:46:47.150 align:middle line:84% Even when you're reading great, great fiction, 00:46:47.150 --> 00:46:49.730 align:middle line:84% I have always got a little bit of a critical, oh, 00:46:49.730 --> 00:46:52.983 align:middle line:84% that's so well worded, the phrasing is so good. 00:46:52.983 --> 00:46:54.650 align:middle line:84% It doesn't get in the way of my reading, 00:46:54.650 --> 00:46:57.200 align:middle line:84% but it kind of runs across my head. 00:46:57.200 --> 00:47:00.347 align:middle line:84% With Wallace, you go on this 200 page flight, 00:47:00.347 --> 00:47:02.180 align:middle line:84% and you had to stop and put it down a minute 00:47:02.180 --> 00:47:03.890 align:middle line:84% to breathe, and think, now what was 00:47:03.890 --> 00:47:05.140 align:middle line:90% critically interesting about-- 00:47:05.140 --> 00:47:06.500 align:middle line:90% It's like you can't-- 00:47:06.500 --> 00:47:10.100 align:middle line:84% that little voice in your head, it's just so honest, 00:47:10.100 --> 00:47:13.250 align:middle line:84% and it draws you in so much, and I didn't. 00:47:13.250 --> 00:47:15.800 align:middle line:84% As you study for years, and years, and years, 00:47:15.800 --> 00:47:18.080 align:middle line:84% the compassion-- the way that he doesn't judge anyone 00:47:18.080 --> 00:47:19.610 align:middle line:84% in Infinite Jest is such a remark-- 00:47:19.610 --> 00:47:22.100 align:middle line:84% the things that he talks about in "This Is Water," that 00:47:22.100 --> 00:47:23.450 align:middle line:90% just came at that-- 00:47:23.450 --> 00:47:26.330 align:middle line:84% the extraordinary move from what Marshall was talking about, 00:47:26.330 --> 00:47:30.650 align:middle line:84% from that breathing the air of cynicism into well, 00:47:30.650 --> 00:47:32.570 align:middle line:84% that's the water that we're in, but now we 00:47:32.570 --> 00:47:34.610 align:middle line:84% have to move on towards compassion-- 00:47:34.610 --> 00:47:35.690 align:middle line:90% just extraordinary. 00:47:35.690 --> 00:47:39.770 align:middle line:84% And he's also led me to self educate myself. 00:47:39.770 --> 00:47:44.390 align:middle line:84% I read a big 600 page anthology of postmodern philosophy. 00:47:44.390 --> 00:47:48.560 align:middle line:84% I've read Gaddis and Pynchon-- things I never would have done 00:47:48.560 --> 00:47:49.820 align:middle line:90% without-- 00:47:49.820 --> 00:47:53.150 align:middle line:84% I've read both of Wittgenstein's books of philosophy 00:47:53.150 --> 00:47:54.560 align:middle line:90% just because of Wallace. 00:47:54.560 --> 00:48:00.058 align:middle line:84% All these things that he's led me to outside of just reading, 00:48:00.058 --> 00:48:01.100 align:middle line:90% I don't know, so that's-- 00:48:01.100 --> 00:48:03.920 align:middle line:90% 00:48:03.920 --> 00:48:08.090 align:middle line:84% The thing about David is, he was the smartest person I ever 00:48:08.090 --> 00:48:08.600 align:middle line:90% knew. 00:48:08.600 --> 00:48:10.933 align:middle line:84% And I think he's probably the smartest person most of us 00:48:10.933 --> 00:48:11.720 align:middle line:90% ever knew. 00:48:11.720 --> 00:48:13.520 align:middle line:84% It's like the Enron movie, the smartest 00:48:13.520 --> 00:48:16.320 align:middle line:84% guys who thought they were the smartest ones in the room. 00:48:16.320 --> 00:48:20.990 align:middle line:84% And since his death, because I'm his literary executor and not 00:48:20.990 --> 00:48:23.570 align:middle line:84% just the agent, we've actually been putting together 00:48:23.570 --> 00:48:27.290 align:middle line:84% his archives, and going through all his papers, 00:48:27.290 --> 00:48:29.990 align:middle line:84% and all his computer disks, and everything. 00:48:29.990 --> 00:48:33.290 align:middle line:84% And even after all these years, it's 00:48:33.290 --> 00:48:36.260 align:middle line:84% amazing to see what a careful writer he was. 00:48:36.260 --> 00:48:40.730 align:middle line:84% There are drafts, and drafts, and drafts of everything. 00:48:40.730 --> 00:48:42.590 align:middle line:90% There are drafts of letters. 00:48:42.590 --> 00:48:43.970 align:middle line:90% Who drafts letters? 00:48:43.970 --> 00:48:46.325 align:middle line:84% Come on, there are drafts of letters to his mother. 00:48:46.325 --> 00:48:49.610 align:middle line:90% 00:48:49.610 --> 00:48:54.777 align:middle line:84% Where there's the typed work, and then there's, 00:48:54.777 --> 00:48:57.110 align:middle line:84% of course, the blue pencil, then there's the red pencil, 00:48:57.110 --> 00:48:58.490 align:middle line:90% then there's the green pencil. 00:48:58.490 --> 00:49:01.370 align:middle line:84% And I actually-- the one thing I took out of the archives 00:49:01.370 --> 00:49:06.860 align:middle line:84% was his punctuation cheat sheet, because he 00:49:06.860 --> 00:49:09.590 align:middle line:84% knows punctuation better than anyone, 00:49:09.590 --> 00:49:13.670 align:middle line:84% including the copy editors who edited him over the years. 00:49:13.670 --> 00:49:17.690 align:middle line:90% And some of whom this was-- 00:49:17.690 --> 00:49:20.660 align:middle line:84% if you said, I'm going to, sort of, dip you in whipped cream 00:49:20.660 --> 00:49:23.780 align:middle line:84% and let you do anything-- this was the greatest person 00:49:23.780 --> 00:49:26.270 align:middle line:90% for them to copy edit in life. 00:49:26.270 --> 00:49:28.970 align:middle line:84% For other copy editors it was the worst nightmare 00:49:28.970 --> 00:49:31.310 align:middle line:84% ever because, of course, he knew more than they did, 00:49:31.310 --> 00:49:33.080 align:middle line:90% and it became a misery. 00:49:33.080 --> 00:49:37.220 align:middle line:84% And the Premiere pieces, for example-- 00:49:37.220 --> 00:49:40.310 align:middle line:84% David eviscerates Balthazar Getty in a footnote, 00:49:40.310 --> 00:49:41.030 align:middle line:90% in a footnote. 00:49:41.030 --> 00:49:43.237 align:middle line:84% I don't even-- if I saw Balthazar Getty out there, 00:49:43.237 --> 00:49:45.320 align:middle line:84% I'm not even sure I would know what he looks like. 00:49:45.320 --> 00:49:49.355 align:middle line:84% But it was just a footnote where he destroyed him, and-- 00:49:49.355 --> 00:49:51.440 align:middle line:84% The copy chief almost quit over the serial comma. 00:49:51.440 --> 00:49:52.400 align:middle line:90% He almost quit. 00:49:52.400 --> 00:49:54.020 align:middle line:90% Right, right, I mean-- 00:49:54.020 --> 00:49:55.580 align:middle line:84% Some of our longest conversations 00:49:55.580 --> 00:49:57.710 align:middle line:84% were getting galleys back from copy editors, 00:49:57.710 --> 00:50:00.925 align:middle line:84% and me and Dave either taking out or putting back in commas. 00:50:00.925 --> 00:50:02.300 align:middle line:84% And these were guys who said, oh, 00:50:02.300 --> 00:50:04.880 align:middle line:84% we're great fans of Dave Wallace, but they're-- 00:50:04.880 --> 00:50:07.595 align:middle line:84% copy editors are born, not made, so they can't help themselves. 00:50:07.595 --> 00:50:09.270 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:50:09.270 --> 00:50:10.933 align:middle line:90% And there are places-- 00:50:10.933 --> 00:50:13.100 align:middle line:84% David may be the only person who is, like, I'm never 00:50:13.100 --> 00:50:14.683 align:middle line:84% working with The New York Times again, 00:50:14.683 --> 00:50:18.470 align:middle line:84% because they didn't put commas where they were supposed to. 00:50:18.470 --> 00:50:20.240 align:middle line:84% Now, as an agent you're, like, I'm 00:50:20.240 --> 00:50:22.248 align:middle line:90% just going to shoot myself now. 00:50:22.248 --> 00:50:24.290 align:middle line:84% You're not going to work with The New York Times? 00:50:24.290 --> 00:50:26.630 align:middle line:84% No, because they did-- they put the wrong copy 00:50:26.630 --> 00:50:29.030 align:middle line:90% editor on something. 00:50:29.030 --> 00:50:32.180 align:middle line:84% The New York Observer-- they didn't do it right, and-- 00:50:32.180 --> 00:50:33.980 align:middle line:84% but the thing is, he knew exactly what it 00:50:33.980 --> 00:50:35.270 align:middle line:90% was supposed to be. 00:50:35.270 --> 00:50:38.480 align:middle line:84% And he knew exactly how he knew it was meant-- 00:50:38.480 --> 00:50:40.940 align:middle line:84% he understood things that the rest of us didn't understand. 00:50:40.940 --> 00:50:43.440 align:middle line:84% And so I, of course, would have to go fight for these things 00:50:43.440 --> 00:50:46.520 align:middle line:84% and be like, sorry, no we can't do this. 00:50:46.520 --> 00:50:48.920 align:middle line:84% No, Jim Atlas, no, we're never doing another piece 00:50:48.920 --> 00:50:50.240 align:middle line:90% for the magazine, just because. 00:50:50.240 --> 00:50:52.460 align:middle line:84% His cordless phone would be dying, and he's like, OK, 00:50:52.460 --> 00:50:53.930 align:middle line:90% put that comma [INAUDIBLE] 00:50:53.930 --> 00:50:55.670 align:middle line:84% Right, and that's the way it worked. 00:50:55.670 --> 00:50:58.190 align:middle line:84% And I knew all along that the whole thing was-- 00:50:58.190 --> 00:51:01.008 align:middle line:84% don't fuck with it, just figure out how to make it work. 00:51:01.008 --> 00:51:02.300 align:middle line:90% Would have saved a lot of time. 00:51:02.300 --> 00:51:03.008 align:middle line:90% Right, it's true. 00:51:03.008 --> 00:51:04.820 align:middle line:84% And the Premiere piece, for example, 00:51:04.820 --> 00:51:06.440 align:middle line:84% we wound up doing under a pseudonym, 00:51:06.440 --> 00:51:08.930 align:middle line:84% because he just got really angry. 00:51:08.930 --> 00:51:10.670 align:middle line:84% Actually the agreement was the agreement 00:51:10.670 --> 00:51:14.210 align:middle line:84% was to do it under a pseudonym even before he wrote the piece. 00:51:14.210 --> 00:51:15.800 align:middle line:84% No, but we changed it in the middle. 00:51:15.800 --> 00:51:17.240 align:middle line:84% No, no, no, no, the agreement was always 00:51:17.240 --> 00:51:18.323 align:middle line:90% to do it with a pseudonym. 00:51:18.323 --> 00:51:20.000 align:middle line:84% He had been offered to it by Spin. 00:51:20.000 --> 00:51:21.923 align:middle line:90% Spin said OK. 00:51:21.923 --> 00:51:23.840 align:middle line:84% And the reason he wanted to do the pseudonym-- 00:51:23.840 --> 00:51:25.400 align:middle line:90% this is actually even funnier-- 00:51:25.400 --> 00:51:27.020 align:middle line:90% because he had said-- 00:51:27.020 --> 00:51:28.480 align:middle line:84% he was working on Brief Interviews. 00:51:28.480 --> 00:51:28.980 align:middle line:90% Right. 00:51:28.980 --> 00:51:32.810 align:middle line:84% Right, and he had told you, and every other editor who 00:51:32.810 --> 00:51:35.190 align:middle line:84% we spoke to, that he wasn't going to do another magazine 00:51:35.190 --> 00:51:36.620 align:middle line:90% piece for two years. 00:51:36.620 --> 00:51:38.810 align:middle line:84% Now, he really wanted to write about AVN, 00:51:38.810 --> 00:51:41.330 align:middle line:84% he really wanted to go out and do this thing. 00:51:41.330 --> 00:51:44.792 align:middle line:84% But he knew that if he wrote a piece of this size 00:51:44.792 --> 00:51:46.250 align:middle line:84% that it would end up on a magazine, 00:51:46.250 --> 00:51:49.760 align:middle line:84% and the cover line would read inside the porno Oscars, 00:51:49.760 --> 00:51:51.410 align:middle line:90% by David Foster Wallace. 00:51:51.410 --> 00:51:52.340 align:middle line:90% And he said to me-- 00:51:52.340 --> 00:51:54.340 align:middle line:84% I remember this clear as a bell-- he said to me, 00:51:54.340 --> 00:51:56.300 align:middle line:84% because I don't want to look like a douchebag, 00:51:56.300 --> 00:51:59.010 align:middle line:84% for breaking my word and not doing a magazine piece. 00:51:59.010 --> 00:52:01.700 align:middle line:84% So one of the conditions on doing the magazine piece, 00:52:01.700 --> 00:52:03.350 align:middle line:84% I have to do it under a pseudonym. 00:52:03.350 --> 00:52:05.480 align:middle line:84% The whole thing about what happened after that 00:52:05.480 --> 00:52:07.700 align:middle line:90% is even worse, actually. 00:52:07.700 --> 00:52:09.920 align:middle line:90% But because-- the irony is-- 00:52:09.920 --> 00:52:13.850 align:middle line:84% as though no one was going to figure it out? 00:52:13.850 --> 00:52:14.660 align:middle line:90% That was the thing. 00:52:14.660 --> 00:52:16.700 align:middle line:84% You're like, did you not think people were 00:52:16.700 --> 00:52:18.320 align:middle line:90% going to recognize the voice? 00:52:18.320 --> 00:52:20.612 align:middle line:84% No, he thought the clue that was going to give him away 00:52:20.612 --> 00:52:23.300 align:middle line:84% in the AVN piece was the abbreviation, vz, 00:52:23.300 --> 00:52:23.960 align:middle line:90% in a footnote. 00:52:23.960 --> 00:52:26.500 align:middle line:84% I said, no, Dave, it's not just that. 00:52:26.500 --> 00:52:29.120 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:52:29.120 --> 00:52:30.980 align:middle line:84% He actually said that to me with a-- 00:52:30.980 --> 00:52:32.690 align:middle line:84% Totally straight face, totally straight face, right. 00:52:32.690 --> 00:52:33.560 align:middle line:84% You know, this is the thing that's 00:52:33.560 --> 00:52:34.910 align:middle line:90% really going to give it away. 00:52:34.910 --> 00:52:36.110 align:middle line:90% Right. 00:52:36.110 --> 00:52:36.960 align:middle line:90% Could be, yeah. 00:52:36.960 --> 00:52:38.693 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:52:38.693 --> 00:52:40.610 align:middle line:84% So one of the things that a couple of you guys 00:52:40.610 --> 00:52:42.777 align:middle line:84% have brought up was the aspect of voice. 00:52:42.777 --> 00:52:44.360 align:middle line:84% And I think in a lot of Wallace's work 00:52:44.360 --> 00:52:45.860 align:middle line:84% we see a really intense interest in voice. 00:52:45.860 --> 00:52:47.630 align:middle line:84% We were talking about Girl with Curious Hair, which 00:52:47.630 --> 00:52:50.255 align:middle line:84% sort of adopts voices, a lot of the stories in that collection, 00:52:50.255 --> 00:52:51.650 align:middle line:90% as well as in Brief Interviews. 00:52:51.650 --> 00:52:53.660 align:middle line:84% But also his own voice, as we brought up with Infinite 00:52:53.660 --> 00:52:55.493 align:middle line:84% Jest-- the fact that it feels very much his, 00:52:55.493 --> 00:52:56.618 align:middle line:90% and untouchably his. 00:52:56.618 --> 00:52:58.160 align:middle line:84% So that was, maybe, one of the things 00:52:58.160 --> 00:53:00.202 align:middle line:84% I was thinking we could come back and talk about, 00:53:00.202 --> 00:53:01.470 align:middle line:90% after we get a little coffee. 00:53:01.470 --> 00:53:03.970 align:middle line:84% But also just the response to the influences a couple of you 00:53:03.970 --> 00:53:04.945 align:middle line:90% guys also brought up-- 00:53:04.945 --> 00:53:06.570 align:middle line:84% Barth and Gaddis and some of the people 00:53:06.570 --> 00:53:09.300 align:middle line:84% that Wallace has sort of responded to, but also 00:53:09.300 --> 00:53:11.988 align:middle line:84% maybe kind of advanced a little bit. 00:53:11.988 --> 00:53:13.530 align:middle line:84% But so maybe right now is a good time 00:53:13.530 --> 00:53:15.180 align:middle line:84% to get some lemon bars and coffee, 00:53:15.180 --> 00:53:17.323 align:middle line:84% and then we'll be back in about a half an hour. 00:53:17.323 --> 00:53:18.990 align:middle line:84% We should reassure all these nice people 00:53:18.990 --> 00:53:20.590 align:middle line:90% that will be taking questions. 00:53:20.590 --> 00:53:22.965 align:middle line:84% And, yeah, then we'll be having questions and discussion. 00:53:22.965 --> 00:53:24.711 align:middle line:90% [APPLAUSE] 00:53:24.711 --> 00:53:27.550 align:middle line:84% We should make it so they're not just talk. 00:53:27.550 --> 00:53:30.250 align:middle line:90% 00:53:30.250 --> 00:53:31.500 align:middle line:90% [INAUDIBLE] 00:53:31.500 --> 00:53:33.000 align:middle line:90%