WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.420 align:middle line:90% 00:00:02.420 --> 00:00:08.270 align:middle line:84% Images, coming in these images, they're just so right on. 00:00:08.270 --> 00:00:13.072 align:middle line:90% And how do you do it? 00:00:13.072 --> 00:00:14.490 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:00:14.490 --> 00:00:15.910 align:middle line:90% How do you do it? 00:00:15.910 --> 00:00:19.650 align:middle line:90% Share your magic. 00:00:19.650 --> 00:00:21.550 align:middle line:90% It's great. 00:00:21.550 --> 00:00:22.430 align:middle line:90% Yeah, yeah. 00:00:22.430 --> 00:00:22.930 align:middle line:90% Fuck. 00:00:22.930 --> 00:00:24.790 align:middle line:90% Yeah, I like it. 00:00:24.790 --> 00:00:25.690 align:middle line:90% Hi, Jackie. 00:00:25.690 --> 00:00:27.190 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:00:27.190 --> 00:00:28.720 align:middle line:84% Jackie picked me up from the airport 00:00:28.720 --> 00:00:31.875 align:middle line:84% and we had this really cool conversation. 00:00:31.875 --> 00:00:32.500 align:middle line:90% How do I do it? 00:00:32.500 --> 00:00:35.580 align:middle line:84% I don't know, I honestly have no idea. 00:00:35.580 --> 00:00:38.110 align:middle line:84% We talked about this a little bit today, 00:00:38.110 --> 00:00:41.020 align:middle line:84% and I said I just kind of try to be like an insect 00:00:41.020 --> 00:00:46.660 align:middle line:84% and have antenna open at all time, and just be a sponge 00:00:46.660 --> 00:00:49.420 align:middle line:90% and absorb what I hear. 00:00:49.420 --> 00:00:55.660 align:middle line:84% And also, just be wary of my own confidences about my own work, 00:00:55.660 --> 00:00:59.110 align:middle line:84% and be the worst critic of my own work and stuff 00:00:59.110 --> 00:01:03.530 align:middle line:84% and constantly give myself guff about everything. 00:01:03.530 --> 00:01:04.030 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:01:04.030 --> 00:01:06.130 align:middle line:84% But we talked about a little bit about film too. 00:01:06.130 --> 00:01:08.488 align:middle line:90% I think we both write-- 00:01:08.488 --> 00:01:10.030 align:middle line:84% I don't want to speak on your behalf, 00:01:10.030 --> 00:01:11.800 align:middle line:84% but I think we maybe both write in a way 00:01:11.800 --> 00:01:16.720 align:middle line:84% that we isolate stills that we find sort 00:01:16.720 --> 00:01:19.210 align:middle line:84% of evocative of something and then sort of maybe 00:01:19.210 --> 00:01:20.380 align:middle line:90% build around that. 00:01:20.380 --> 00:01:24.330 align:middle line:84% That's the best answer I got for that. 00:01:24.330 --> 00:01:26.700 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:01:26.700 --> 00:01:29.680 align:middle line:84% What's that's that Chekhov quote that I'm going to butcher 00:01:29.680 --> 00:01:33.580 align:middle line:84% that's about don't tell me "war," 00:01:33.580 --> 00:01:37.150 align:middle line:84% show me the light glinting on the broken glass or something. 00:01:37.150 --> 00:01:38.140 align:middle line:90% [INAUDIBLE] 00:01:38.140 --> 00:01:39.100 align:middle line:90% Thank you. 00:01:39.100 --> 00:01:39.600 align:middle line:90% That's it. 00:01:39.600 --> 00:01:40.100 align:middle line:90% Do you-- 00:01:40.100 --> 00:01:42.640 align:middle line:84% Show me how reflects a small glint of glass on the beach. 00:01:42.640 --> 00:01:45.580 align:middle line:84% I liked that the moon became war in my memory. 00:01:45.580 --> 00:01:47.290 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:01:47.290 --> 00:01:48.520 align:middle line:90% But exactly, right? 00:01:48.520 --> 00:01:50.800 align:middle line:84% So trying to-- like in my head, I'm 00:01:50.800 --> 00:01:54.610 align:middle line:84% always trying to find the smallest thing. 00:01:54.610 --> 00:01:58.390 align:middle line:90% That's what I'm obsessed with. 00:01:58.390 --> 00:02:02.980 align:middle line:84% The actual literally physically smallest object in a scene, 00:02:02.980 --> 00:02:04.960 align:middle line:90% and I do visualize scenes a lot. 00:02:04.960 --> 00:02:07.570 align:middle line:90% I think that's the filmic thing. 00:02:07.570 --> 00:02:11.380 align:middle line:84% But I also think that it's not so much about the images 00:02:11.380 --> 00:02:14.890 align:middle line:84% that you pick but the attention that one brings to the images, 00:02:14.890 --> 00:02:18.190 align:middle line:84% and the kind of gaze that's behind whatever it 00:02:18.190 --> 00:02:21.890 align:middle line:90% is that you're writing about. 00:02:21.890 --> 00:02:24.190 align:middle line:84% And so I think a lot, I think often 00:02:24.190 --> 00:02:29.140 align:middle line:84% about a story I heard about Thich Nhat Hanh, the Buddhist 00:02:29.140 --> 00:02:35.260 align:middle line:84% monk who was holding a session with people 00:02:35.260 --> 00:02:37.990 align:middle line:84% and he had everyone turn around to the person next to them 00:02:37.990 --> 00:02:40.025 align:middle line:84% and hug and meet each other and say hello. 00:02:40.025 --> 00:02:41.650 align:middle line:84% And then they turn back around and then 00:02:41.650 --> 00:02:43.990 align:middle line:84% he said, OK, now do it again but knowing 00:02:43.990 --> 00:02:46.240 align:middle line:90% you both will die, right? 00:02:46.240 --> 00:02:47.330 align:middle line:90% And so what happens? 00:02:47.330 --> 00:02:50.050 align:middle line:84% It's the same action, right, but the quality of attention 00:02:50.050 --> 00:02:51.460 align:middle line:90% is kind of different. 00:02:51.460 --> 00:02:56.710 align:middle line:84% And I find that tuning in with that quality of attention 00:02:56.710 --> 00:02:58.450 align:middle line:90% helps those images come. 00:02:58.450 --> 00:03:00.970 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:03:00.970 --> 00:03:04.870 align:middle line:84% I had a question that I'll ask as I'm making my way to Sam. 00:03:04.870 --> 00:03:07.240 align:middle line:84% This is kind of a process question for you, Solmaz. 00:03:07.240 --> 00:03:11.950 align:middle line:84% If you think about how much textual matter you're 00:03:11.950 --> 00:03:13.528 align:middle line:84% working with, and some of it, I mean, 00:03:13.528 --> 00:03:15.820 align:middle line:84% you spoke a little bit about reading the New York Times 00:03:15.820 --> 00:03:18.730 align:middle line:84% article and the way that became the imaginative research 00:03:18.730 --> 00:03:19.720 align:middle line:90% possibility for you. 00:03:19.720 --> 00:03:23.170 align:middle line:84% But is there a kind of physical aspect 00:03:23.170 --> 00:03:26.775 align:middle line:84% of that also like are you carrying around any of this? 00:03:26.775 --> 00:03:28.900 align:middle line:84% Do you take it around with you on your day, are you 00:03:28.900 --> 00:03:29.650 align:middle line:90% living with it? 00:03:29.650 --> 00:03:33.220 align:middle line:90% How do you, how do you do that? 00:03:33.220 --> 00:03:34.300 align:middle line:90% With a lot of bags. 00:03:34.300 --> 00:03:36.190 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:03:36.190 --> 00:03:37.060 align:middle line:90% Yeah, I do. 00:03:37.060 --> 00:03:38.490 align:middle line:90% I mean, not anymore. 00:03:38.490 --> 00:03:39.490 align:middle line:90% I haven't touched this-- 00:03:39.490 --> 00:03:45.910 align:middle line:84% It was, I don't like saying it but it was really 00:03:45.910 --> 00:03:51.470 align:middle line:84% taxing to deal with that material for as long as I did. 00:03:51.470 --> 00:03:53.620 align:middle line:84% And so I haven't touched it in about a year. 00:03:53.620 --> 00:03:56.320 align:middle line:90% 00:03:56.320 --> 00:04:01.870 align:middle line:84% The last poem I wrote that dealt with any kind of material 00:04:01.870 --> 00:04:04.510 align:middle line:84% like that was the Senate report on torture 00:04:04.510 --> 00:04:08.590 align:middle line:84% that came out in 2014, at the end of 2014. 00:04:08.590 --> 00:04:12.562 align:middle line:84% But no, I also need to have the thing itself. 00:04:12.562 --> 00:04:14.770 align:middle line:84% I can't look at screens so I have to print things out 00:04:14.770 --> 00:04:18.310 align:middle line:84% and actually lay them out and weigh them down with stones, 00:04:18.310 --> 00:04:22.510 align:middle line:84% and just keep visually like changing my relationship 00:04:22.510 --> 00:04:29.350 align:middle line:84% to them and enact all my- the visual artist envy, 00:04:29.350 --> 00:04:33.335 align:middle line:84% and try to find more tactile ways of being a poet. 00:04:33.335 --> 00:04:33.835 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:04:33.835 --> 00:04:36.760 align:middle line:90% 00:04:36.760 --> 00:04:41.350 align:middle line:84% I love what you said about scenes of the small object. 00:04:41.350 --> 00:04:43.570 align:middle line:84% But I also heard, and I'd love both of you 00:04:43.570 --> 00:04:45.790 align:middle line:90% to talk about the long poem. 00:04:45.790 --> 00:04:50.630 align:middle line:84% Because I hear all these long forms in what you're doing, 00:04:50.630 --> 00:04:51.760 align:middle line:90% and I love that. 00:04:51.760 --> 00:04:53.250 align:middle line:90% Do people talk about that? 00:04:53.250 --> 00:04:57.040 align:middle line:90% 00:04:57.040 --> 00:05:00.310 align:middle line:84% For me as a writer and editor and a publisher, 00:05:00.310 --> 00:05:02.650 align:middle line:84% it's the thing I'm sort of most interested 00:05:02.650 --> 00:05:06.100 align:middle line:90% in is poets writing long poems. 00:05:06.100 --> 00:05:11.410 align:middle line:84% I love short poems too but I'm always up for a long poem. 00:05:11.410 --> 00:05:13.720 align:middle line:84% And I want to qualify what I mean by that. 00:05:13.720 --> 00:05:16.780 align:middle line:84% I don't-- like the Iliad is a long poem but that's like 00:05:16.780 --> 00:05:18.100 align:middle line:90% a book, you know what I mean? 00:05:18.100 --> 00:05:22.390 align:middle line:84% I mean a poem that's maybe 30 pages long or something or 50 00:05:22.390 --> 00:05:23.140 align:middle line:90% or whatever. 00:05:23.140 --> 00:05:26.260 align:middle line:84% Something that you really have to invest time in 00:05:26.260 --> 00:05:29.440 align:middle line:84% and doesn't have that instant gratification that poetry 00:05:29.440 --> 00:05:32.470 align:middle line:90% sometimes is associated with. 00:05:32.470 --> 00:05:34.690 align:middle line:84% And for me, what I love about long poems is 00:05:34.690 --> 00:05:36.880 align:middle line:84% the way the turns inside them, like 00:05:36.880 --> 00:05:39.610 align:middle line:84% how a long poem sustains itself or the endurance 00:05:39.610 --> 00:05:42.870 align:middle line:84% within a long poem and the shifts that happen. 00:05:42.870 --> 00:05:46.000 align:middle line:84% One of my favorite long poem writers is Frank Bidart, 00:05:46.000 --> 00:05:49.480 align:middle line:84% and he just has these incredible tonal shifts 00:05:49.480 --> 00:05:54.460 align:middle line:84% that occur within the sections in his long poems. 00:05:54.460 --> 00:05:56.740 align:middle line:90% Alice Notley also comes to mind. 00:05:56.740 --> 00:06:00.070 align:middle line:84% She almost has eight voices in the room at all times, 00:06:00.070 --> 00:06:01.360 align:middle line:90% so it's almost-- 00:06:01.360 --> 00:06:03.940 align:middle line:84% it's easier for her to sustain a column that 00:06:03.940 --> 00:06:07.010 align:middle line:90% goes on for pages and pages. 00:06:07.010 --> 00:06:09.820 align:middle line:84% But yeah, as someone who tries to write long 00:06:09.820 --> 00:06:13.060 align:middle line:84% poems and writes long poems that publishers often 00:06:13.060 --> 00:06:16.330 align:middle line:84% won't publish because they're longer than a page 00:06:16.330 --> 00:06:21.700 align:middle line:84% or whatever, I pay specific attention to where 00:06:21.700 --> 00:06:24.370 align:middle line:84% the poem needs its energy to come from, 00:06:24.370 --> 00:06:28.420 align:middle line:84% and how it needs to stay floating and sort of in the air 00:06:28.420 --> 00:06:30.680 align:middle line:90% and things like that. 00:06:30.680 --> 00:06:34.418 align:middle line:84% I hope I'm doing that work, but I'm conscious of it 00:06:34.418 --> 00:06:34.960 align:middle line:90% all the time. 00:06:34.960 --> 00:06:37.360 align:middle line:84% And I want there to be space for the voices 00:06:37.360 --> 00:06:41.800 align:middle line:84% to break from their own form and sort of, I 00:06:41.800 --> 00:06:44.613 align:middle line:84% want it to be sort of chaos sustained chaos 00:06:44.613 --> 00:06:45.280 align:middle line:90% for a long time. 00:06:45.280 --> 00:06:49.710 align:middle line:90% 00:06:49.710 --> 00:06:52.470 align:middle line:84% There's that the Kizer quote about a poem 00:06:52.470 --> 00:06:55.080 align:middle line:84% is not the bringing together of things 00:06:55.080 --> 00:06:59.520 align:middle line:84% so much is not allowing things to be torn apart. 00:06:59.520 --> 00:07:00.540 align:middle line:90% And that's how I feel. 00:07:00.540 --> 00:07:05.430 align:middle line:84% So shorter poems feel a little cruel to me often, 00:07:05.430 --> 00:07:08.250 align:middle line:84% because I want-- there's so many other things I kind of want 00:07:08.250 --> 00:07:10.680 align:middle line:90% to let in. 00:07:10.680 --> 00:07:15.840 align:middle line:84% So, I'm not sure I'm answering the question anymore, 00:07:15.840 --> 00:07:16.390 align:middle line:90% but that's-- 00:07:16.390 --> 00:07:16.890 align:middle line:90% What's that? 00:07:16.890 --> 00:07:17.820 align:middle line:84% That's all I want to hear you talk about. 00:07:17.820 --> 00:07:18.840 align:middle line:90% OK, great. 00:07:18.840 --> 00:07:19.830 align:middle line:90% Yeah, yeah. 00:07:19.830 --> 00:07:26.150 align:middle line:90% 00:07:26.150 --> 00:07:27.950 align:middle line:90% It's like, where is it? 00:07:27.950 --> 00:07:30.590 align:middle line:90% This is a question for Solmaz. 00:07:30.590 --> 00:07:33.800 align:middle line:90% I believe it was in-- 00:07:33.800 --> 00:07:34.460 align:middle line:90% Oh. 00:07:34.460 --> 00:07:41.660 align:middle line:84% I believe it was in "Drone," the line that began "una a ana." 00:07:41.660 --> 00:07:45.260 align:middle line:84% I understand that was a reference to another poet that 00:07:45.260 --> 00:07:46.250 align:middle line:90% I wasn't-- 00:07:46.250 --> 00:07:49.910 align:middle line:84% I think in our class we were a little confused by it. 00:07:49.910 --> 00:07:53.150 align:middle line:84% Would you mind elaborating on the intention 00:07:53.150 --> 00:07:54.420 align:middle line:90% behind that reference? 00:07:54.420 --> 00:07:54.920 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:07:54.920 --> 00:08:00.950 align:middle line:84% It's a poem by Leonel Rugama who was a Sandinista poet who 00:08:00.950 --> 00:08:04.910 align:middle line:84% was killed when he was 20 by some of his forces. 00:08:04.910 --> 00:08:07.100 align:middle line:84% And he wrote two poems that are both 00:08:07.100 --> 00:08:10.250 align:middle line:90% called Epitaphio or epitaph. 00:08:10.250 --> 00:08:12.380 align:middle line:84% One of them apparently he wrote-- 00:08:12.380 --> 00:08:14.000 align:middle line:90% he died in a shootout. 00:08:14.000 --> 00:08:18.230 align:middle line:84% And one of them he wrote within, like in the middle 00:08:18.230 --> 00:08:20.310 align:middle line:84% of the shootout, like right before he was killed. 00:08:20.310 --> 00:08:22.550 align:middle line:90% This is not that one. 00:08:22.550 --> 00:08:28.610 align:middle line:84% But I've always-- I am an admirer of his work 00:08:28.610 --> 00:08:31.880 align:middle line:84% and his self and his spirit, and there 00:08:31.880 --> 00:08:35.030 align:middle line:84% are a number of similar like revolutionary figures that 00:08:35.030 --> 00:08:36.710 align:middle line:90% appear in that poem. 00:08:36.710 --> 00:08:39.770 align:middle line:84% And since I was writing epitaphs, 00:08:39.770 --> 00:08:41.659 align:middle line:84% it was again, another one of those moments 00:08:41.659 --> 00:08:44.210 align:middle line:84% of like, how do I not allow this actually to be torn apart, 00:08:44.210 --> 00:08:44.710 align:middle line:90% right? 00:08:44.710 --> 00:08:47.570 align:middle line:84% Don't these things somehow belong next to each other? 00:08:47.570 --> 00:08:49.490 align:middle line:84% Shouldn't they be speaking with each other? 00:08:49.490 --> 00:08:52.310 align:middle line:84% And shouldn't his words remain alive for us 00:08:52.310 --> 00:08:55.820 align:middle line:84% too, and what can I do as a poet to make sure 00:08:55.820 --> 00:08:57.770 align:middle line:90% that happens in my way? 00:08:57.770 --> 00:08:59.870 align:middle line:90% Yeah, thank you. 00:08:59.870 --> 00:09:00.370 align:middle line:90% All right. 00:09:00.370 --> 00:09:01.960 align:middle line:90% We'll do this one last question. 00:09:01.960 --> 00:09:04.270 align:middle line:84% I saw a hand on this side I want that left, 00:09:04.270 --> 00:09:06.160 align:middle line:90% the north side of the room. 00:09:06.160 --> 00:09:09.100 align:middle line:90% 00:09:09.100 --> 00:09:10.780 align:middle line:84% Thanks so much for sharing your words. 00:09:10.780 --> 00:09:13.090 align:middle line:84% This was my first exposure to both of you's work 00:09:13.090 --> 00:09:14.410 align:middle line:90% and I found it really moving. 00:09:14.410 --> 00:09:16.410 align:middle line:90% So thank you. 00:09:16.410 --> 00:09:21.235 align:middle line:84% I found your poems in both cases to be violent and disruptive. 00:09:21.235 --> 00:09:22.860 align:middle line:84% You're talking about torture and you're 00:09:22.860 --> 00:09:25.493 align:middle line:84% throwing a brick through the window of the White House. 00:09:25.493 --> 00:09:26.910 align:middle line:84% And I couldn't help but feel there 00:09:26.910 --> 00:09:30.090 align:middle line:84% was a dissonance between that and between the formal setting 00:09:30.090 --> 00:09:31.587 align:middle line:90% in which you're presenting it. 00:09:31.587 --> 00:09:34.170 align:middle line:84% We're sitting here quietly and we're listening for 20 minutes, 00:09:34.170 --> 00:09:35.250 align:middle line:90% and then we're clapping. 00:09:35.250 --> 00:09:37.253 align:middle line:84% And I wonder, I wonder if you're satisfied 00:09:37.253 --> 00:09:38.670 align:middle line:84% with that if you feel like there's 00:09:38.670 --> 00:09:42.030 align:middle line:84% another venue in which you feel like your work could be 00:09:42.030 --> 00:09:43.350 align:middle line:90% more in line with the content. 00:09:43.350 --> 00:09:45.330 align:middle line:84% Or if that dissonance you're happy with it? 00:09:45.330 --> 00:09:47.670 align:middle line:84% I'd be curious to hear reflect on that. 00:09:47.670 --> 00:09:49.320 align:middle line:90% That's a great question. 00:09:49.320 --> 00:09:50.940 align:middle line:90% Do you want to answer it? 00:09:50.940 --> 00:09:52.720 align:middle line:90% I'll try to answer it. 00:09:52.720 --> 00:09:53.220 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:09:53.220 --> 00:09:56.661 align:middle line:84% I mean, if you want to trash this place right now. 00:09:56.661 --> 00:10:00.330 align:middle line:84% OK, I didn't, Hannah, I didn't advise that. 00:10:00.330 --> 00:10:01.577 align:middle line:90% Yeah, no. 00:10:01.577 --> 00:10:02.910 align:middle line:90% I mean, that's a great question. 00:10:02.910 --> 00:10:05.700 align:middle line:84% And I think that for me specifically, I 00:10:05.700 --> 00:10:08.400 align:middle line:84% think that's part of what I'm sort of railing against 00:10:08.400 --> 00:10:13.530 align:middle line:84% is our sort of norms within poetry culture and publishing 00:10:13.530 --> 00:10:20.580 align:middle line:84% culture and polite culture and proprietary culture. 00:10:20.580 --> 00:10:24.030 align:middle line:84% It's weird to do it within that setting 00:10:24.030 --> 00:10:27.780 align:middle line:84% and be wearing a button up shirt and you know 00:10:27.780 --> 00:10:28.740 align:middle line:90% and all this stuff. 00:10:28.740 --> 00:10:35.280 align:middle line:84% And I often say I think it's great to be inside to critique 00:10:35.280 --> 00:10:36.960 align:middle line:84% your way outward and stuff like that. 00:10:36.960 --> 00:10:39.330 align:middle line:84% And I think if there's anything I 00:10:39.330 --> 00:10:42.720 align:middle line:84% want my poems to do it's to raise that exact question 00:10:42.720 --> 00:10:45.750 align:middle line:84% and get that question in people's heads, 00:10:45.750 --> 00:10:47.367 align:middle line:84% and sort of get the energy in the room 00:10:47.367 --> 00:10:49.950 align:middle line:84% to a spot where people are like, well, why are we just sitting 00:10:49.950 --> 00:10:51.570 align:middle line:90% here in chairs? 00:10:51.570 --> 00:10:54.390 align:middle line:84% And yeah, that's-- I mean, I'm so glad you asked that 00:10:54.390 --> 00:10:57.310 align:middle line:84% because that's exactly what I want. 00:10:57.310 --> 00:10:58.500 align:middle line:90% I feel that way constantly. 00:10:58.500 --> 00:11:00.330 align:middle line:90% Just like, what am I doing here? 00:11:00.330 --> 00:11:03.000 align:middle line:90% Why do I write poems? 00:11:03.000 --> 00:11:05.490 align:middle line:84% Why don't I play music or something like that? 00:11:05.490 --> 00:11:11.490 align:middle line:84% And being able to write poems and work with language 00:11:11.490 --> 00:11:14.340 align:middle line:84% in a way that gets people a little prickly and a little 00:11:14.340 --> 00:11:18.750 align:middle line:84% salty, I think is like what that's my M.O., kind of. 00:11:18.750 --> 00:11:19.620 align:middle line:90% And yeah. 00:11:19.620 --> 00:11:22.680 align:middle line:84% So I would never encourage you to throw a chair at me 00:11:22.680 --> 00:11:23.430 align:middle line:90% while I'm reading. 00:11:23.430 --> 00:11:28.470 align:middle line:84% But if you did it, I would be so proud of you. 00:11:28.470 --> 00:11:30.870 align:middle line:84% If someone George Bushed me while I was reading 00:11:30.870 --> 00:11:33.150 align:middle line:84% and hit me with a shoe in the face or something, 00:11:33.150 --> 00:11:35.430 align:middle line:84% I would be like, I've made it as a poet 00:11:35.430 --> 00:11:37.810 align:middle line:84% or I've done my work or something. 00:11:37.810 --> 00:11:40.440 align:middle line:90% So, Yeah. 00:11:40.440 --> 00:11:42.450 align:middle line:90% Yeah, let's hang out after. 00:11:42.450 --> 00:11:42.950 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:11:42.950 --> 00:11:44.435 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:11:44.435 --> 00:11:45.920 align:middle line:90% 00:11:45.920 --> 00:11:47.610 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:11:47.610 --> 00:11:50.970 align:middle line:84% I too find that moment really thrilling, of questioning well, 00:11:50.970 --> 00:11:53.790 align:middle line:84% what does it mean to just be a passive participant 00:11:53.790 --> 00:11:58.470 align:middle line:84% at this moment, and what does it mean to just hear stories. 00:11:58.470 --> 00:12:01.230 align:middle line:84% And how am I, how often in my life 00:12:01.230 --> 00:12:04.950 align:middle line:84% am I doing that also, not just within this room. 00:12:04.950 --> 00:12:08.550 align:middle line:84% And for me it's just always been important to make 00:12:08.550 --> 00:12:12.210 align:middle line:84% sure that the conversation includes the narratives that 00:12:12.210 --> 00:12:18.370 align:middle line:84% maybe don't belong in the room as neatly as well. 00:12:18.370 --> 00:12:20.370 align:middle line:84% But what happens with it from there 00:12:20.370 --> 00:12:22.260 align:middle line:84% and what you do with it when you leave 00:12:22.260 --> 00:12:24.975 align:middle line:84% remains a question for me that I'm still wrestling with. 00:12:24.975 --> 00:12:28.110 align:middle line:90% 00:12:28.110 --> 00:12:28.660 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:12:28.660 --> 00:12:29.160 align:middle line:90% Oh. 00:12:29.160 --> 00:12:29.760 align:middle line:90% Thank you. 00:12:29.760 --> 00:12:30.330 align:middle line:90% Thank you. 00:12:30.330 --> 00:12:31.770 align:middle line:90% Thank you audience. 00:12:31.770 --> 00:12:33.210 align:middle line:90% Thank you both [INAUDIBLE]. 00:12:33.210 --> 00:12:35.360 align:middle line:90% [APPLAUSE] 00:12:35.360 --> 00:12:40.000 align:middle line:90%