WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.420 align:middle line:90% 00:00:02.420 --> 00:00:05.210 align:middle line:90% Images coming in these images. 00:00:05.210 --> 00:00:08.270 align:middle line:90% They're just so right on. 00:00:08.270 --> 00:00:14.510 align:middle line:90% And how do you do it? 00:00:14.510 --> 00:00:15.910 align:middle line:90% How do you do you it? 00:00:15.910 --> 00:00:17.050 align:middle line:90% Sure, you're magic. 00:00:17.050 --> 00:00:18.397 align:middle line:90% [INAUDIBLE] 00:00:18.397 --> 00:00:24.790 align:middle line:90% 00:00:24.790 --> 00:00:27.178 align:middle line:90% Hi Jackie. 00:00:27.178 --> 00:00:28.720 align:middle line:84% Jackie picked me up from the airport. 00:00:28.720 --> 00:00:31.875 align:middle line:84% And we had this really cool conversation. 00:00:31.875 --> 00:00:32.500 align:middle line:90% How do I do it? 00:00:32.500 --> 00:00:33.640 align:middle line:90% I don't know. 00:00:33.640 --> 00:00:35.600 align:middle line:90% I honestly have no idea. 00:00:35.600 --> 00:00:38.110 align:middle line:84% We talked about this a little bit today. 00:00:38.110 --> 00:00:41.020 align:middle line:84% And I said I'd just kind of try to be like an insect 00:00:41.020 --> 00:00:46.660 align:middle line:84% and have antenna open at all time and just be a sponge 00:00:46.660 --> 00:00:51.670 align:middle line:84% and absorb what I hear and also just be 00:00:51.670 --> 00:00:55.660 align:middle line:84% wary of my own confidences about my own work 00:00:55.660 --> 00:00:59.110 align:middle line:84% and be the worst critic of my own work and stuff 00:00:59.110 --> 00:01:02.500 align:middle line:84% and constantly give myself guff about everything. 00:01:02.500 --> 00:01:06.130 align:middle line:84% And yeah, but we talked about a little bit about film too. 00:01:06.130 --> 00:01:08.488 align:middle line:90% I think we both write-- 00:01:08.488 --> 00:01:10.030 align:middle line:84% I don't want to speak on your behalf, 00:01:10.030 --> 00:01:11.800 align:middle line:84% but I think we maybe both write in a way 00:01:11.800 --> 00:01:16.720 align:middle line:84% that we isolate stills that we find sort 00:01:16.720 --> 00:01:19.210 align:middle line:84% of evocative of something and then sort of maybe 00:01:19.210 --> 00:01:20.872 align:middle line:90% build around that. 00:01:20.872 --> 00:01:24.290 align:middle line:84% [INAUDIBLE] That's the best answer I've got for that. 00:01:24.290 --> 00:01:27.130 align:middle line:90% 00:01:27.130 --> 00:01:30.190 align:middle line:84% What's that Chekhov quote that I'm going to butcher that's 00:01:30.190 --> 00:01:35.230 align:middle line:84% about don't tell me war, show me the light glinting 00:01:35.230 --> 00:01:36.860 align:middle line:84% on the broken glass or something. 00:01:36.860 --> 00:01:37.360 align:middle line:90% You know? 00:01:37.360 --> 00:01:37.750 align:middle line:90% Thank you. 00:01:37.750 --> 00:01:39.833 align:middle line:84% "Don't show me how the moon reflects on the water. 00:01:39.833 --> 00:01:41.950 align:middle line:84% Show me how it reflects on a small glint of glass 00:01:41.950 --> 00:01:42.640 align:middle line:90% on the beach." 00:01:42.640 --> 00:01:47.300 align:middle line:84% I like that the moon became war in my memory. 00:01:47.300 --> 00:01:50.680 align:middle line:84% But exactly, right so trying to-- like in my head, 00:01:50.680 --> 00:01:54.610 align:middle line:84% I'm always trying to find the smallest thing. 00:01:54.610 --> 00:01:58.390 align:middle line:84% That's what I'm like obsessed with. 00:01:58.390 --> 00:02:02.980 align:middle line:84% The actual literally physically smallest object in a scene. 00:02:02.980 --> 00:02:04.960 align:middle line:90% And I do visualize scenes a lot. 00:02:04.960 --> 00:02:07.570 align:middle line:90% I think that's the filmic thing. 00:02:07.570 --> 00:02:11.380 align:middle line:84% But I also think that it's not so much about the images 00:02:11.380 --> 00:02:13.870 align:middle line:84% that you pick, but the attention that one brings 00:02:13.870 --> 00:02:18.190 align:middle line:84% to the images and the kind of gaze that's behind whatever it 00:02:18.190 --> 00:02:21.890 align:middle line:90% is that you're writing about. 00:02:21.890 --> 00:02:24.190 align:middle line:84% And so I think a lot, I think often 00:02:24.190 --> 00:02:29.140 align:middle line:84% about a story I heard about Thich Nhat Hanh, the Buddhist 00:02:29.140 --> 00:02:35.260 align:middle line:84% monk who was holding a session with people. 00:02:35.260 --> 00:02:37.450 align:middle line:84% And he had everyone turn around to the person 00:02:37.450 --> 00:02:40.065 align:middle line:84% next to them and hug and meet each other and say hello. 00:02:40.065 --> 00:02:41.440 align:middle line:84% And then they turned back around. 00:02:41.440 --> 00:02:43.570 align:middle line:84% And then he said, OK, now do it again but 00:02:43.570 --> 00:02:45.850 align:middle line:90% knowing you both will die. 00:02:45.850 --> 00:02:47.330 align:middle line:90% Right, and so what happens-- 00:02:47.330 --> 00:02:50.050 align:middle line:84% it's the same action, right, but the quality of attention 00:02:50.050 --> 00:02:51.460 align:middle line:90% is kind of different. 00:02:51.460 --> 00:02:56.710 align:middle line:84% And I find that tuning in with that quality of attention 00:02:56.710 --> 00:02:58.490 align:middle line:90% helps those images come out. 00:02:58.490 --> 00:03:00.980 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:03:00.980 --> 00:03:04.880 align:middle line:84% I have a question that I'll ask as I'm making my way to Sam. 00:03:04.880 --> 00:03:07.580 align:middle line:84% This is kind of a process question for you, Solmaz. 00:03:07.580 --> 00:03:11.210 align:middle line:84% I'm thinking about how much textual 00:03:11.210 --> 00:03:12.590 align:middle line:90% matter you're working with. 00:03:12.590 --> 00:03:14.595 align:middle line:84% And some of it, I mean you spoke a little bit 00:03:14.595 --> 00:03:16.970 align:middle line:84% about reading the New York Times article and the way that 00:03:16.970 --> 00:03:19.730 align:middle line:84% became the imaginative research possibility for you. 00:03:19.730 --> 00:03:23.930 align:middle line:84% But is there a kind of physical aspect of that also. 00:03:23.930 --> 00:03:26.848 align:middle line:84% Like are you carrying around any of this? 00:03:26.848 --> 00:03:28.640 align:middle line:84% Do you take it around with you on your day? 00:03:28.640 --> 00:03:29.630 align:middle line:90% Are you living with it? 00:03:29.630 --> 00:03:33.230 align:middle line:90% How do you-- how do you do that? 00:03:33.230 --> 00:03:36.200 align:middle line:90% With a lot of bags. 00:03:36.200 --> 00:03:37.070 align:middle line:90% Yeah, I do. 00:03:37.070 --> 00:03:38.510 align:middle line:90% I mean, not anymore. 00:03:38.510 --> 00:03:40.010 align:middle line:84% I haven't touched this-- it was-- 00:03:40.010 --> 00:03:43.100 align:middle line:90% 00:03:43.100 --> 00:03:44.090 align:middle line:90% I don't like saying it. 00:03:44.090 --> 00:03:49.100 align:middle line:84% But it was really taxing to deal with that material for as long 00:03:49.100 --> 00:03:51.480 align:middle line:90% as I did. 00:03:51.480 --> 00:03:53.615 align:middle line:84% And so I haven't touched it in about a year. 00:03:53.615 --> 00:03:56.300 align:middle line:90% 00:03:56.300 --> 00:04:01.880 align:middle line:84% The last poem I wrote that dealt with any kind of material 00:04:01.880 --> 00:04:04.520 align:middle line:84% like that was the Senate report on torture 00:04:04.520 --> 00:04:08.570 align:middle line:84% that came out in 2014, at the end of 2014. 00:04:08.570 --> 00:04:09.470 align:middle line:90% But no. 00:04:09.470 --> 00:04:12.700 align:middle line:84% I also need to have the thing itself. 00:04:12.700 --> 00:04:13.700 align:middle line:90% I can't look at screens. 00:04:13.700 --> 00:04:14.950 align:middle line:90% So I have to print things out. 00:04:14.950 --> 00:04:18.290 align:middle line:84% And I have to lay them out and weigh them down with stones 00:04:18.290 --> 00:04:22.490 align:middle line:84% and just keep visually like changing my relationship 00:04:22.490 --> 00:04:25.970 align:middle line:90% to them and enact all my-- 00:04:25.970 --> 00:04:31.310 align:middle line:84% the visual artist envy and try to find more tactile 00:04:31.310 --> 00:04:33.345 align:middle line:90% ways of being a poet. 00:04:33.345 --> 00:04:33.845 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:04:33.845 --> 00:04:36.740 align:middle line:90% 00:04:36.740 --> 00:04:41.330 align:middle line:84% I love what you said about scenes and the small object. 00:04:41.330 --> 00:04:43.580 align:middle line:84% But I also heard, and I'd love both of you 00:04:43.580 --> 00:04:46.220 align:middle line:84% to talk about the long poem because I 00:04:46.220 --> 00:04:50.640 align:middle line:84% hear all these long forms and what you're doing. 00:04:50.640 --> 00:04:51.740 align:middle line:90% And I love that. 00:04:51.740 --> 00:04:53.250 align:middle line:90% Would you like to talk about it? 00:04:53.250 --> 00:04:56.270 align:middle line:90% 00:04:56.270 --> 00:05:00.320 align:middle line:84% It's-- for me, as a writer and an editor and a publisher, 00:05:00.320 --> 00:05:05.090 align:middle line:84% it's the thing I'm sort of most interested in is poets writing 00:05:05.090 --> 00:05:06.080 align:middle line:90% long poems. 00:05:06.080 --> 00:05:07.100 align:middle line:90% I love short poems too. 00:05:07.100 --> 00:05:11.420 align:middle line:84% But I'm always up for a long poem. 00:05:11.420 --> 00:05:13.730 align:middle line:84% And I want to qualify what I mean by that. 00:05:13.730 --> 00:05:16.340 align:middle line:84% I don't-- like the Iliad is a long poem, 00:05:16.340 --> 00:05:17.550 align:middle line:90% but that's like a book. 00:05:17.550 --> 00:05:18.425 align:middle line:90% You know what I mean? 00:05:18.425 --> 00:05:21.710 align:middle line:84% I mean like a poem that's maybe 30 pages long or something 00:05:21.710 --> 00:05:24.440 align:middle line:84% or 50 or whatever, something that you really 00:05:24.440 --> 00:05:26.960 align:middle line:84% have to invest time in and doesn't 00:05:26.960 --> 00:05:29.870 align:middle line:84% have that instant gratification that poetry sometimes 00:05:29.870 --> 00:05:32.480 align:middle line:90% is associated with. 00:05:32.480 --> 00:05:34.700 align:middle line:84% And for me, what I love about long poems is 00:05:34.700 --> 00:05:36.860 align:middle line:84% the way the turns inside them, like 00:05:36.860 --> 00:05:39.620 align:middle line:84% how a long poem sustains itself or the endurance 00:05:39.620 --> 00:05:42.870 align:middle line:84% within a long poem and the shifts that happen. 00:05:42.870 --> 00:05:45.980 align:middle line:84% One of my favorite long poem writers is Frank Bidart, 00:05:45.980 --> 00:05:49.460 align:middle line:84% and he just has these incredible tonal shifts 00:05:49.460 --> 00:05:54.470 align:middle line:84% that occur within the sections in his long poems. 00:05:54.470 --> 00:05:56.720 align:middle line:90% Alice Notley also comes to mind. 00:05:56.720 --> 00:06:00.080 align:middle line:84% She almost has eight voices in the room at all times. 00:06:00.080 --> 00:06:02.360 align:middle line:84% So it's almost-- it's easier for her 00:06:02.360 --> 00:06:07.020 align:middle line:84% to sustain a poem that goes on for pages and pages. 00:06:07.020 --> 00:06:10.190 align:middle line:84% But yeah, as someone who tries to write long poems 00:06:10.190 --> 00:06:13.700 align:middle line:84% and writes long poems that publishers often won't publish 00:06:13.700 --> 00:06:17.690 align:middle line:84% because they're longer than a page or whatever, 00:06:17.690 --> 00:06:23.720 align:middle line:84% I pay specific attention to where the poem needs its energy 00:06:23.720 --> 00:06:26.120 align:middle line:84% to come from and how it needs to stay 00:06:26.120 --> 00:06:30.690 align:middle line:84% floating and sort of in the air and things like that. 00:06:30.690 --> 00:06:33.290 align:middle line:90% I hope I'm doing that work. 00:06:33.290 --> 00:06:34.940 align:middle line:84% But I'm conscious of it all the time. 00:06:34.940 --> 00:06:37.340 align:middle line:84% And I want there to be space for the voices 00:06:37.340 --> 00:06:41.660 align:middle line:84% to break from their own form and sort of-- 00:06:41.660 --> 00:06:44.210 align:middle line:84% I want it to be sort of chaos, sustained 00:06:44.210 --> 00:06:45.290 align:middle line:90% chaos for a long time. 00:06:45.290 --> 00:06:48.050 align:middle line:90% 00:06:48.050 --> 00:06:52.480 align:middle line:84% There's that the Rukeyeser quote about a poem 00:06:52.480 --> 00:06:55.090 align:middle line:84% is not the bringing together of things 00:06:55.090 --> 00:06:59.500 align:middle line:84% so much as not allowing things to be torn apart. 00:06:59.500 --> 00:07:00.550 align:middle line:90% And that's how I feel. 00:07:00.550 --> 00:07:04.870 align:middle line:84% So shorter poems feel a little cruel to me 00:07:04.870 --> 00:07:07.570 align:middle line:84% often because I want-- there's so many other things I 00:07:07.570 --> 00:07:10.660 align:middle line:90% kind of want to let in. 00:07:10.660 --> 00:07:15.820 align:middle line:84% So I'm not sure I'm answering the question anymore. 00:07:15.820 --> 00:07:16.997 align:middle line:90% But that's-- what's that? 00:07:16.997 --> 00:07:17.830 align:middle line:90% That's all I wanted. 00:07:17.830 --> 00:07:18.850 align:middle line:90% OK, great. 00:07:18.850 --> 00:07:19.570 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:07:19.570 --> 00:07:20.070 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:07:20.070 --> 00:07:25.650 align:middle line:90% 00:07:25.650 --> 00:07:26.150 align:middle line:90% Sorry. 00:07:26.150 --> 00:07:27.950 align:middle line:90% It's like where is it? 00:07:27.950 --> 00:07:30.590 align:middle line:90% This is a question for Solmaz. 00:07:30.590 --> 00:07:33.800 align:middle line:90% I believe it was in-- 00:07:33.800 --> 00:07:41.660 align:middle line:84% Oh I believe it was in Drum, the line that began "una a una." 00:07:41.660 --> 00:07:45.110 align:middle line:84% I understand that was a reference to another poet. 00:07:45.110 --> 00:07:46.250 align:middle line:90% But I was-- 00:07:46.250 --> 00:07:49.910 align:middle line:84% I think in our class we were a little confused by it. 00:07:49.910 --> 00:07:53.150 align:middle line:84% Would you mind elaborating on the intention 00:07:53.150 --> 00:07:54.500 align:middle line:90% behind that reference? 00:07:54.500 --> 00:07:59.330 align:middle line:84% Yeah, it's a poem by Leonel Rugama, who 00:07:59.330 --> 00:08:03.260 align:middle line:84% was a Sandinista poet who was killed when he was 20 00:08:03.260 --> 00:08:04.910 align:middle line:90% by Somoza's forces. 00:08:04.910 --> 00:08:07.100 align:middle line:84% And he wrote two poems that are both 00:08:07.100 --> 00:08:10.250 align:middle line:90% called Epitafio or Epitaph. 00:08:10.250 --> 00:08:12.380 align:middle line:84% One of them, apparently he wrote-- 00:08:12.380 --> 00:08:14.000 align:middle line:90% he died in a shootout. 00:08:14.000 --> 00:08:17.372 align:middle line:90% And one of them he wrote in-- 00:08:17.372 --> 00:08:18.830 align:middle line:84% like in the middle of the shootout, 00:08:18.830 --> 00:08:20.310 align:middle line:90% like right before he was killed. 00:08:20.310 --> 00:08:22.550 align:middle line:90% This is not that one. 00:08:22.550 --> 00:08:28.610 align:middle line:84% But I've always-- I am an admirer of his work 00:08:28.610 --> 00:08:30.500 align:middle line:90% and his self and his spirit. 00:08:30.500 --> 00:08:34.460 align:middle line:84% And there are a number of similar like revolutionary 00:08:34.460 --> 00:08:36.710 align:middle line:84% figures that appear in that poem. 00:08:36.710 --> 00:08:39.770 align:middle line:84% And since I was writing epitaphs, 00:08:39.770 --> 00:08:41.659 align:middle line:84% it was again another one of those moments 00:08:41.659 --> 00:08:44.210 align:middle line:84% of like how do I not allow this actually to be torn apart, 00:08:44.210 --> 00:08:44.710 align:middle line:90% right? 00:08:44.710 --> 00:08:47.570 align:middle line:84% Don't these things somehow belong next to each other? 00:08:47.570 --> 00:08:49.490 align:middle line:84% Shouldn't they be speaking with each other, 00:08:49.490 --> 00:08:52.700 align:middle line:84% and shouldn't his words remain alive for us too? 00:08:52.700 --> 00:08:55.820 align:middle line:84% And what can I do as a poet to make sure 00:08:55.820 --> 00:08:57.750 align:middle line:90% that happens in my way. 00:08:57.750 --> 00:08:59.510 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:08:59.510 --> 00:09:00.110 align:middle line:90% Thank you. 00:09:00.110 --> 00:09:01.970 align:middle line:84% All right, we'll do this one last question. 00:09:01.970 --> 00:09:03.290 align:middle line:90% I saw a hand on this side. 00:09:03.290 --> 00:09:06.140 align:middle line:84% I don't want to neglect the north side of the room. 00:09:06.140 --> 00:09:09.100 align:middle line:90% 00:09:09.100 --> 00:09:10.780 align:middle line:84% Thanks so much for sharing your words. 00:09:10.780 --> 00:09:13.090 align:middle line:84% This was my first exposure to both of your work. 00:09:13.090 --> 00:09:14.410 align:middle line:90% And I found it really moving. 00:09:14.410 --> 00:09:16.440 align:middle line:90% So thank you. 00:09:16.440 --> 00:09:21.145 align:middle line:84% I found your poems in both cases to be violent and disruptive. 00:09:21.145 --> 00:09:22.770 align:middle line:84% You know, you're talking about torture. 00:09:22.770 --> 00:09:25.493 align:middle line:84% You're throwing a brick through the window of the White House. 00:09:25.493 --> 00:09:26.910 align:middle line:84% And I couldn't help but feel there 00:09:26.910 --> 00:09:30.090 align:middle line:84% was a dissonance between that and between the formal setting 00:09:30.090 --> 00:09:31.680 align:middle line:90% in which you're presenting it. 00:09:31.680 --> 00:09:32.850 align:middle line:90% We're sitting here quietly. 00:09:32.850 --> 00:09:34.170 align:middle line:84% And we're listening for 20 minutes, 00:09:34.170 --> 00:09:35.250 align:middle line:90% and then we're clapping. 00:09:35.250 --> 00:09:37.890 align:middle line:84% And I wonder if you're satisfied with that, 00:09:37.890 --> 00:09:40.650 align:middle line:84% if you feel like there's another venue in which you feel 00:09:40.650 --> 00:09:43.350 align:middle line:84% like your work to be more in line with the content 00:09:43.350 --> 00:09:45.340 align:middle line:84% or if that dissonance, you're happy with it. 00:09:45.340 --> 00:09:47.670 align:middle line:84% And I'd be curious to hear reflect on that. 00:09:47.670 --> 00:09:49.320 align:middle line:90% That's a great question. 00:09:49.320 --> 00:09:50.940 align:middle line:90% Do you want to answer? 00:09:50.940 --> 00:09:53.040 align:middle line:90% I'll try to answer it. 00:09:53.040 --> 00:09:57.150 align:middle line:84% Yeah, I mean if you want to trash this place right now. 00:09:57.150 --> 00:10:00.330 align:middle line:84% OK, I didn't-- Hannah, I didn't advise that. 00:10:00.330 --> 00:10:01.577 align:middle line:90% Yeah, no. 00:10:01.577 --> 00:10:02.910 align:middle line:90% I mean, that's a great question. 00:10:02.910 --> 00:10:05.700 align:middle line:84% And I think that for me specifically, I 00:10:05.700 --> 00:10:08.400 align:middle line:84% think that's part of what I'm sort of railing against 00:10:08.400 --> 00:10:13.530 align:middle line:84% is our sort of norms within poetry culture and publishing 00:10:13.530 --> 00:10:20.580 align:middle line:84% culture and polite culture and proprietary culture. 00:10:20.580 --> 00:10:24.040 align:middle line:84% It's weird to do it within that setting 00:10:24.040 --> 00:10:27.780 align:middle line:84% and be wearing a button up shirt and you know 00:10:27.780 --> 00:10:28.740 align:middle line:90% and all this stuff. 00:10:28.740 --> 00:10:35.280 align:middle line:84% And I often say I think it's great to be inside to critique 00:10:35.280 --> 00:10:36.960 align:middle line:84% your way outward and stuff like that. 00:10:36.960 --> 00:10:40.560 align:middle line:84% And I think if there's anything I want my poems to do, 00:10:40.560 --> 00:10:42.720 align:middle line:84% it's to raise that exact question 00:10:42.720 --> 00:10:45.750 align:middle line:84% and get that sort of question in people's heads 00:10:45.750 --> 00:10:47.537 align:middle line:84% and sort of get the energy in the room 00:10:47.537 --> 00:10:49.120 align:middle line:84% to a spot where people are like, well, 00:10:49.120 --> 00:10:51.570 align:middle line:84% why are we just sitting here in chairs, you know. 00:10:51.570 --> 00:10:54.390 align:middle line:84% And yeah, that's-- I mean, I'm so glad you asked that 00:10:54.390 --> 00:10:57.310 align:middle line:84% because that's exactly what I want. 00:10:57.310 --> 00:11:00.030 align:middle line:84% I feel that way constantly, just like, what am I doing here? 00:11:00.030 --> 00:11:03.000 align:middle line:90% Like why do I write poems? 00:11:03.000 --> 00:11:05.490 align:middle line:84% Why don't I play music or something you know like that. 00:11:05.490 --> 00:11:11.910 align:middle line:84% And being able to write poems and work with language in a way 00:11:11.910 --> 00:11:15.030 align:middle line:84% that gets people a little prickly and a little salty 00:11:15.030 --> 00:11:16.830 align:middle line:90% I think is like what-- 00:11:16.830 --> 00:11:18.780 align:middle line:90% that's my MO, kind of. 00:11:18.780 --> 00:11:21.270 align:middle line:84% And yeah, so I would never encourage 00:11:21.270 --> 00:11:23.430 align:middle line:84% you to throw a chair at me while I'm reading. 00:11:23.430 --> 00:11:27.150 align:middle line:84% But if you did it, I would be so proud of you. 00:11:27.150 --> 00:11:30.870 align:middle line:84% Like if someone George Bushed me while I was reading 00:11:30.870 --> 00:11:33.150 align:middle line:84% and hit me with a shoe in the face or something, 00:11:33.150 --> 00:11:35.430 align:middle line:84% I would be like, I've made it as a poet. 00:11:35.430 --> 00:11:37.810 align:middle line:84% Or I've done my work or something. 00:11:37.810 --> 00:11:40.420 align:middle line:90% So yeah. 00:11:40.420 --> 00:11:42.930 align:middle line:84% Yeah, let's hang out after the reading. 00:11:42.930 --> 00:11:47.610 align:middle line:90% 00:11:47.610 --> 00:11:49.740 align:middle line:84% I too find that moment really thrilling you 00:11:49.740 --> 00:11:51.210 align:middle line:84% know of questioning well, what does 00:11:51.210 --> 00:11:54.660 align:middle line:84% it mean to just be a passive participant at this moment. 00:11:54.660 --> 00:11:57.210 align:middle line:84% You know, and what does it mean to just hear stories? 00:11:57.210 --> 00:12:01.230 align:middle line:84% You know, and how am I how often in my life 00:12:01.230 --> 00:12:04.895 align:middle line:84% am I doing that also, not just within this room? 00:12:04.895 --> 00:12:06.270 align:middle line:84% And for me, it's just always been 00:12:06.270 --> 00:12:11.160 align:middle line:84% important to make sure that the conversation includes 00:12:11.160 --> 00:12:15.810 align:middle line:84% the narratives that maybe don't belong in the room as neatly 00:12:15.810 --> 00:12:18.370 align:middle line:90% as well. 00:12:18.370 --> 00:12:20.370 align:middle line:84% But what happens with it from there 00:12:20.370 --> 00:12:22.290 align:middle line:84% and what you do with it when you leave 00:12:22.290 --> 00:12:24.975 align:middle line:84% remains a question for me that I'm still wrestling with. 00:12:24.975 --> 00:12:28.100 align:middle line:90% 00:12:28.100 --> 00:12:29.760 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:12:29.760 --> 00:12:30.330 align:middle line:90% Thank you. 00:12:30.330 --> 00:12:31.770 align:middle line:90% Thank you, all audience. 00:12:31.770 --> 00:12:34.160 align:middle line:90% Thank you, both readers. 00:12:34.160 --> 00:12:40.000 align:middle line:90%