WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:01.750 align:middle line:84% Thank you so much for being here. 00:00:01.750 --> 00:00:03.630 align:middle line:84% It's wonderful to hear your words. 00:00:03.630 --> 00:00:06.490 align:middle line:84% Question for you is, is your family 00:00:06.490 --> 00:00:07.595 align:middle line:90% in the city, in Manhattan? 00:00:07.595 --> 00:00:09.220 align:middle line:84% Do you have all of your children there? 00:00:09.220 --> 00:00:12.730 align:middle line:84% And what has that been like as a family experience? 00:00:12.730 --> 00:00:16.533 align:middle line:84% And how has that changed, maybe, your voice as a writer? 00:00:16.533 --> 00:00:17.950 align:middle line:84% This reading is being underwritten 00:00:17.950 --> 00:00:19.240 align:middle line:90% by the City of New York. 00:00:19.240 --> 00:00:21.280 align:middle line:90% I will now give a commercial-- 00:00:21.280 --> 00:00:22.240 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:00:22.240 --> 00:00:26.200 align:middle line:84% No, yes, in a way, I'm not a good person 00:00:26.200 --> 00:00:28.730 align:middle line:84% to ask that question to because I grew up in New York, 00:00:28.730 --> 00:00:31.493 align:middle line:84% and so I don't really know any different. 00:00:31.493 --> 00:00:32.785 align:middle line:90% [CHUCKLES] I don't know better. 00:00:32.785 --> 00:00:36.502 align:middle line:90% 00:00:36.502 --> 00:00:39.940 align:middle line:84% [SIGHS DEEPLY] Yeah, there are so many things I don't know 00:00:39.940 --> 00:00:43.840 align:middle line:84% about, like what it's like to have daughters instead of sons, 00:00:43.840 --> 00:00:44.620 align:middle line:90% or-- 00:00:44.620 --> 00:00:46.960 align:middle line:90% I will say that I think-- 00:00:46.960 --> 00:00:51.280 align:middle line:84% I really was so interested that Renee talked about 00:00:51.280 --> 00:00:55.090 align:middle line:84% interruptibility, the interruptibility of mothers, 00:00:55.090 --> 00:00:57.910 align:middle line:84% but the ways in which our technology and other parts 00:00:57.910 --> 00:01:01.300 align:middle line:84% of our modern contemporary existence have caused us all 00:01:01.300 --> 00:01:06.430 align:middle line:84% to be interruptible in ways that I think are new and troubling. 00:01:06.430 --> 00:01:09.190 align:middle line:84% And I think that there are a lot of things for me as a mother, 00:01:09.190 --> 00:01:15.010 align:middle line:84% but especially as a writer, that are very deeply influenced. 00:01:15.010 --> 00:01:17.140 align:middle line:84% So much so that I can't even imagine 00:01:17.140 --> 00:01:20.710 align:middle line:84% what it would be like if I weren't living in New York. 00:01:20.710 --> 00:01:26.290 align:middle line:84% And in The Pedestrians, my most recent book-- 00:01:26.290 --> 00:01:30.010 align:middle line:84% I mean, New York has always been inextricable from my poems, 00:01:30.010 --> 00:01:33.880 align:middle line:84% but I really wanted to try to write a high-density poetics, 00:01:33.880 --> 00:01:37.030 align:middle line:84% not just write about New York, but write about what it feels 00:01:37.030 --> 00:01:40.630 align:middle line:84% like to be, in good ways and not good ways, 00:01:40.630 --> 00:01:45.460 align:middle line:84% in really close physical and emotional and spiritual and 00:01:45.460 --> 00:01:49.570 align:middle line:84% political contact with a lot of other people. 00:01:49.570 --> 00:01:53.410 align:middle line:84% And there is an isolation to it, but there's also 00:01:53.410 --> 00:01:54.340 align:middle line:90% the opposite of that. 00:01:54.340 --> 00:01:58.450 align:middle line:84% There's this feeling of real community that I think-- 00:01:58.450 --> 00:02:00.520 align:middle line:84% I have traveled outside of New York. 00:02:00.520 --> 00:02:01.450 align:middle line:90% They do let me leave. 00:02:01.450 --> 00:02:03.110 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:02:03.110 --> 00:02:03.610 align:middle line:90% 00:02:03.610 --> 00:02:06.880 align:middle line:84% And it's both wonderful, and I think, oh, well, I 00:02:06.880 --> 00:02:11.650 align:middle line:84% could have had a life where my brain is not assaulted 00:02:11.650 --> 00:02:13.870 align:middle line:90% by all of this stimulus. 00:02:13.870 --> 00:02:18.160 align:middle line:84% But there's also a really, for me, terrifying isolation 00:02:18.160 --> 00:02:21.670 align:middle line:84% and disconnect that one really just 00:02:21.670 --> 00:02:24.670 align:middle line:84% can't experience in New York unless you're a shut-in. 00:02:24.670 --> 00:02:28.750 align:middle line:84% So my experience of being a mother, 00:02:28.750 --> 00:02:30.473 align:middle line:84% I can't separate from my experience 00:02:30.473 --> 00:02:31.390 align:middle line:90% of living in New York. 00:02:31.390 --> 00:02:33.040 align:middle line:84% And I can't separate my experience 00:02:33.040 --> 00:02:35.563 align:middle line:84% of living in New York with my experience of being a writer. 00:02:35.563 --> 00:02:37.480 align:middle line:84% And they're all kind of just braided together. 00:02:37.480 --> 00:02:44.298 align:middle line:90% 00:02:44.298 --> 00:02:46.590 align:middle line:84% OK, so everyone's saving their questions for next week. 00:02:46.590 --> 00:02:47.660 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHS] 00:02:47.660 --> 00:02:48.410 align:middle line:90% We'll do one more. 00:02:48.410 --> 00:02:51.560 align:middle line:90% 00:02:51.560 --> 00:02:54.660 align:middle line:84% Sometimes it takes a second for people to-- 00:02:54.660 --> 00:02:55.835 align:middle line:90% I can be a little scary. 00:02:55.835 --> 00:02:56.760 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:02:56.760 --> 00:02:58.520 align:middle line:90% I don't know if you noticed. 00:02:58.520 --> 00:03:00.170 align:middle line:90% It was also clear. 00:03:00.170 --> 00:03:01.670 align:middle line:90% Oh, yeah, thank you. 00:03:01.670 --> 00:03:05.265 align:middle line:84% Yeah, there's not a lot of mystery to me. 00:03:05.265 --> 00:03:07.640 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:03:07.640 --> 00:03:08.550 align:middle line:90% Thank you, Rachel. 00:03:08.550 --> 00:03:09.120 align:middle line:90% Thanks. 00:03:09.120 --> 00:03:11.720 align:middle line:90% I'm not quite scared, so sorry. 00:03:11.720 --> 00:03:12.900 align:middle line:90% I just have one question. 00:03:12.900 --> 00:03:17.000 align:middle line:84% You were talking about your lectures, and that this was a-- 00:03:17.000 --> 00:03:21.290 align:middle line:84% my word-- sort of a detour or diversion from that engagement. 00:03:21.290 --> 00:03:23.750 align:middle line:84% I'm wondering, since you mentioned 00:03:23.750 --> 00:03:25.490 align:middle line:84% the names of the lectures or topics, 00:03:25.490 --> 00:03:27.860 align:middle line:84% but we haven't heard them, at least not here, 00:03:27.860 --> 00:03:30.920 align:middle line:90% do they communicate? 00:03:30.920 --> 00:03:35.210 align:middle line:84% Is there an interesting arrival between that communication? 00:03:35.210 --> 00:03:36.650 align:middle line:90% Or do you not know what it is? 00:03:36.650 --> 00:03:38.430 align:middle line:90% Is it intentional? 00:03:38.430 --> 00:03:38.930 align:middle line:90% Oh-- 00:03:38.930 --> 00:03:39.480 align:middle line:90% [AUDIO OUT] 00:03:39.480 --> 00:03:41.630 align:middle line:84% --someday, those are all horrible questions-- 00:03:41.630 --> 00:03:43.460 align:middle line:84% No, no, first I thought you meant do they 00:03:43.460 --> 00:03:45.438 align:middle line:90% communicate with the audience. 00:03:45.438 --> 00:03:46.730 align:middle line:90% And I was like, god, I hope so. 00:03:46.730 --> 00:03:48.170 align:middle line:90% But you mean with each other. 00:03:48.170 --> 00:03:49.530 align:middle line:90% You mean with each other. 00:03:49.530 --> 00:03:50.090 align:middle line:90% Oh, yes. 00:03:50.090 --> 00:03:50.630 align:middle line:90% Yes. 00:03:50.630 --> 00:03:52.880 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:03:52.880 --> 00:03:55.880 align:middle line:84% I first thought, oh, why don't I-- what are 00:03:55.880 --> 00:03:57.410 align:middle line:90% the things I care most about? 00:03:57.410 --> 00:03:59.150 align:middle line:90% What am I interested in? 00:03:59.150 --> 00:04:00.043 align:middle line:90% What do I know about? 00:04:00.043 --> 00:04:01.460 align:middle line:84% What do I want to know more about? 00:04:01.460 --> 00:04:03.320 align:middle line:84% And it was a very open-ended question. 00:04:03.320 --> 00:04:06.080 align:middle line:84% And I studied photography, and I was 00:04:06.080 --> 00:04:07.640 align:middle line:84% interested in confessional poetry. 00:04:07.640 --> 00:04:09.350 align:middle line:84% I'd been called a confessional poet, 00:04:09.350 --> 00:04:11.750 align:middle line:84% and I didn't know whether that was good or bad. 00:04:11.750 --> 00:04:13.460 align:middle line:90% I sensed it was bad, but-- 00:04:13.460 --> 00:04:14.030 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:04:14.030 --> 00:04:18.079 align:middle line:84% --I wanted to kind of explore it. 00:04:18.079 --> 00:04:22.760 align:middle line:84% And I knew that this issue of writing about real people 00:04:22.760 --> 00:04:25.490 align:middle line:84% and using names had been something that had gotten me 00:04:25.490 --> 00:04:27.510 align:middle line:90% into a lot of trouble. 00:04:27.510 --> 00:04:29.420 align:middle line:84% And so I was interested in all those things. 00:04:29.420 --> 00:04:32.720 align:middle line:84% And after I started writing drafts of the lecture, 00:04:32.720 --> 00:04:34.880 align:middle line:84% at the lectures, it became very clear to me 00:04:34.880 --> 00:04:37.220 align:middle line:84% that each lecture was the same lecture. 00:04:37.220 --> 00:04:40.102 align:middle line:90% And I really-- 00:04:40.102 --> 00:04:42.560 align:middle line:84% I mean, I'll talk about this in the lectures. 00:04:42.560 --> 00:04:49.850 align:middle line:84% But very, very briefly, my book Mothers, which Renee described, 00:04:49.850 --> 00:04:53.420 align:middle line:84% my mother did not want me to publish that book, 00:04:53.420 --> 00:05:03.050 align:middle line:84% and was very upset about it, and died in a very traumatic way. 00:05:03.050 --> 00:05:06.380 align:middle line:84% And the publication of the book became very bound up 00:05:06.380 --> 00:05:07.850 align:middle line:90% in her death. 00:05:07.850 --> 00:05:12.200 align:middle line:84% And when she died, almost exactly three years ago, 00:05:12.200 --> 00:05:13.940 align:middle line:90% I stopped writing. 00:05:13.940 --> 00:05:16.580 align:middle line:90% I didn't write anything. 00:05:16.580 --> 00:05:20.750 align:middle line:84% I wrote one poem that ended up in The Pedestrians. 00:05:20.750 --> 00:05:24.450 align:middle line:84% But I had to write these lectures, 00:05:24.450 --> 00:05:27.410 align:middle line:90% and so I had to write something. 00:05:27.410 --> 00:05:30.740 align:middle line:84% And really, the lectures were all 00:05:30.740 --> 00:05:36.180 align:middle line:84% about justifying my actions for publishing that book, in a way. 00:05:36.180 --> 00:05:38.870 align:middle line:84% So when I was talking about photography, I was also saying, 00:05:38.870 --> 00:05:41.530 align:middle line:84% well, look, all these photographers did this. 00:05:41.530 --> 00:05:43.805 align:middle line:84% These photographers took portraits of people 00:05:43.805 --> 00:05:46.430 align:middle line:84% with or without their knowledge, with or without their consent. 00:05:46.430 --> 00:05:47.722 align:middle line:90% It's called street photography. 00:05:47.722 --> 00:05:49.990 align:middle line:84% It's called documentary photography. 00:05:49.990 --> 00:05:51.950 align:middle line:90% You're allowed to do that. 00:05:51.950 --> 00:05:54.470 align:middle line:84% I mean, I was talking to my mother, who was no longer 00:05:54.470 --> 00:05:56.270 align:middle line:90% having a conversation with me. 00:05:56.270 --> 00:05:58.182 align:middle line:84% And I didn't realize that's what I was doing. 00:05:58.182 --> 00:06:00.140 align:middle line:84% I thought I was just writing about photography. 00:06:00.140 --> 00:06:02.570 align:middle line:84% And then when I was writing about confessional poetry, 00:06:02.570 --> 00:06:05.180 align:middle line:84% I was like, what is this whole confessional poetry thing? 00:06:05.180 --> 00:06:07.130 align:middle line:84% And then I realized after writing the lecture, 00:06:07.130 --> 00:06:12.350 align:middle line:84% I was like, [EXHALES] Anne Sexton, come on. 00:06:12.350 --> 00:06:17.585 align:middle line:84% Robert Lowell, he-- so I was, again, trying to-- 00:06:17.585 --> 00:06:21.500 align:middle line:84% not that I wanted to go the way of Sexton and Plath, 00:06:21.500 --> 00:06:24.470 align:middle line:84% but I certainly wasn't the first person 00:06:24.470 --> 00:06:27.650 align:middle line:84% to write about other people, or to upset 00:06:27.650 --> 00:06:30.320 align:middle line:90% other people with writing. 00:06:30.320 --> 00:06:34.470 align:middle line:84% And so I think I was trying to get to hook into-- 00:06:34.470 --> 00:06:37.280 align:middle line:90% 00:06:37.280 --> 00:06:40.310 align:middle line:84% I was trying to write myself out of a place of silence 00:06:40.310 --> 00:06:43.910 align:middle line:84% that I thought I would never write in again. 00:06:43.910 --> 00:06:45.960 align:middle line:84% And then once I realized, oh, I'm 00:06:45.960 --> 00:06:47.960 align:middle line:84% basically writing the same lecture over and over 00:06:47.960 --> 00:06:50.600 align:middle line:90% again in these weird ways. 00:06:50.600 --> 00:06:53.510 align:middle line:84% Maybe I need to go at this a little more 00:06:53.510 --> 00:06:56.780 align:middle line:84% directly, or indirectly, or I don't even know what. 00:06:56.780 --> 00:06:59.370 align:middle line:84% So yes, the lectures definitely speak to each other. 00:06:59.370 --> 00:07:05.760 align:middle line:84% And I would say that all of them, at their heart, 00:07:05.760 --> 00:07:12.120 align:middle line:84% have to do with the ethical and aesthetic consequences 00:07:12.120 --> 00:07:19.830 align:middle line:84% of writing about real people, and writing a kind of "clear"-- 00:07:19.830 --> 00:07:21.570 align:middle line:84% I liked that word that you used-- 00:07:21.570 --> 00:07:25.980 align:middle line:84% or transparent, or Sharon Olds calls it "apparently personal." 00:07:25.980 --> 00:07:27.630 align:middle line:90% I don't even let-- 00:07:27.630 --> 00:07:30.540 align:middle line:84% it is-- for me, I'm not-- the word "apparently" just-- 00:07:30.540 --> 00:07:33.378 align:middle line:84% I mean, it's like if I were to call my poetry "apparently 00:07:33.378 --> 00:07:35.170 align:middle line:84% personal," then I would write the next poem 00:07:35.170 --> 00:07:38.190 align:middle line:84% and I'd say, well, now my poem is "apparently personal." 00:07:38.190 --> 00:07:43.572 align:middle line:84% It just is what it is, but with problems-- 00:07:43.572 --> 00:07:45.420 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:07:45.420 --> 00:07:46.580 align:middle line:90% --associated. 00:07:46.580 --> 00:07:48.210 align:middle line:90% Well, we'll leave it there. 00:07:48.210 --> 00:07:52.680 align:middle line:84% Please do come back next week for these teased lectures, two 00:07:52.680 --> 00:07:54.330 align:middle line:90% or three or seven or 12. 00:07:54.330 --> 00:07:55.620 align:middle line:90% And thank you so much, Rachel. 00:07:55.620 --> 00:07:56.120 align:middle line:90% Thank you. 00:07:56.120 --> 00:07:59.000 align:middle line:84% And there are books for sale over there. 00:07:59.000 --> 00:08:02.047 align:middle line:90%