WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.270 align:middle line:84% I'm going to go hit the bars early. 00:00:03.270 --> 00:00:04.050 align:middle line:90% Hey, Billy. 00:00:04.050 --> 00:00:05.290 align:middle line:90% Hey, man. 00:00:05.290 --> 00:00:05.790 align:middle line:90% This guy-- 00:00:05.790 --> 00:00:07.440 align:middle line:90% It's great to see you. 00:00:07.440 --> 00:00:09.510 align:middle line:84% --is one of the greatest songwriters. 00:00:09.510 --> 00:00:11.340 align:middle line:90% I'm so honored that you came. 00:00:11.340 --> 00:00:12.370 align:middle line:90% So thank you very much. 00:00:12.370 --> 00:00:14.220 align:middle line:90% I'm honored to meet you, man. 00:00:14.220 --> 00:00:19.410 align:middle line:84% So how many books do you have altogether? 00:00:19.410 --> 00:00:24.950 align:middle line:84% Well, I published four, and I wrote 00:00:24.950 --> 00:00:29.330 align:middle line:84% two failed ones between Northline and Lean on Pete. 00:00:29.330 --> 00:00:32.030 align:middle line:84% And then I wrote a Harlequin romance. 00:00:32.030 --> 00:00:34.640 align:middle line:84% I was kind of hard up for a lady, 00:00:34.640 --> 00:00:36.270 align:middle line:90% and I wrote a Harlequin romance. 00:00:36.270 --> 00:00:39.140 align:middle line:90% And then I wrote-- 00:00:39.140 --> 00:00:42.470 align:middle line:84% I always wanted to live in a wrecking yard with an uncle 00:00:42.470 --> 00:00:45.830 align:middle line:90% that all we did is-- 00:00:45.830 --> 00:00:48.110 align:middle line:84% we'd just drink beer and he'd barbecue. 00:00:48.110 --> 00:00:52.160 align:middle line:84% And then he'd go, hey, go get the alternator off that, or, go 00:00:52.160 --> 00:00:53.570 align:middle line:90% get the front end off that. 00:00:53.570 --> 00:00:55.370 align:middle line:84% And that's been my big life dream 00:00:55.370 --> 00:00:56.660 align:middle line:90% is to have an uncle like that. 00:00:56.660 --> 00:00:58.160 align:middle line:84% And I can't figure out how to do it, 00:00:58.160 --> 00:01:00.600 align:middle line:84% so I wrote two novels about that-- 00:01:00.600 --> 00:01:01.100 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:01:01.100 --> 00:01:02.100 align:middle line:90% --that weren't any good. 00:01:02.100 --> 00:01:06.650 align:middle line:84% And then I wrote a novel about a psychotic, alcoholic used car 00:01:06.650 --> 00:01:10.940 align:middle line:84% salesman who hates the guy across the street, 00:01:10.940 --> 00:01:14.810 align:middle line:84% kind of inspired by Used Cars, the great Kurt Russell, 00:01:14.810 --> 00:01:23.180 align:middle line:90% epic, Oscar-defying movie. 00:01:23.180 --> 00:01:24.330 align:middle line:90% So I did that. 00:01:24.330 --> 00:01:28.252 align:middle line:84% And I've written I guess three feet of short stories, 00:01:28.252 --> 00:01:29.210 align:middle line:90% if you stacked them up. 00:01:29.210 --> 00:01:32.190 align:middle line:84% And I maybe have one or two that are decent out of that. 00:01:32.190 --> 00:01:35.010 align:middle line:84% So a lot of mediocre stuff, but-- 00:01:35.010 --> 00:01:35.510 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:01:35.510 --> 00:01:36.010 align:middle line:90% --yeah. 00:01:36.010 --> 00:01:37.820 align:middle line:90% But a lot of good stuff, too. 00:01:37.820 --> 00:01:40.910 align:middle line:84% It depends what day of the week it is. 00:01:40.910 --> 00:01:42.020 align:middle line:90% Some of the stuff I like. 00:01:42.020 --> 00:01:45.170 align:middle line:84% A lot of it is best-- you know, the Harlequin romance? 00:01:45.170 --> 00:01:50.090 align:middle line:84% I actually destroyed all the disks, and I burned it. 00:01:50.090 --> 00:01:51.110 align:middle line:90% But it was the most fun. 00:01:51.110 --> 00:01:54.102 align:middle line:84% If you're ever hard up, I had a girl 00:01:54.102 --> 00:01:55.310 align:middle line:90% that loved everything I said. 00:01:55.310 --> 00:01:57.620 align:middle line:90% And we had a speedboat. 00:01:57.620 --> 00:01:59.450 align:middle line:84% And we had a ton of money, and we 00:01:59.450 --> 00:02:01.640 align:middle line:90% were going to buy an airplane. 00:02:01.640 --> 00:02:05.000 align:middle line:84% But that was in volume two, and then I quit. 00:02:05.000 --> 00:02:06.410 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:02:06.410 --> 00:02:08.060 align:middle line:84% I can't wait to read your stuff, now. 00:02:08.060 --> 00:02:10.100 align:middle line:90% Oh. 00:02:10.100 --> 00:02:12.600 align:middle line:84% Jake's dad has been a fan of yours. 00:02:12.600 --> 00:02:17.690 align:middle line:84% And it was before I heard your stuff, he was telling me, 00:02:17.690 --> 00:02:19.930 align:middle line:84% you got to get hip to this guy, Richmond Fontaine. 00:02:19.930 --> 00:02:21.830 align:middle line:84% He has this band, and he has these books. 00:02:21.830 --> 00:02:25.850 align:middle line:84% And he showed me all-- he has got all your books, man. 00:02:25.850 --> 00:02:27.950 align:middle line:90% So anyways, it's a thrill. 00:02:27.950 --> 00:02:29.960 align:middle line:84% And I don't know if any of you have heard, 00:02:29.960 --> 00:02:32.600 align:middle line:84% he's got the greatest Tucson song ever 00:02:32.600 --> 00:02:35.780 align:middle line:84% called "Tuscon Kills," so I'm very honored to have him here. 00:02:35.780 --> 00:02:43.030 align:middle line:90% 00:02:43.030 --> 00:02:44.230 align:middle line:90% Any other questions? 00:02:44.230 --> 00:02:48.630 align:middle line:90% 00:02:48.630 --> 00:02:49.964 align:middle line:90% What's next? 00:02:49.964 --> 00:02:51.940 align:middle line:90% [INAUDIBLE] Sorry. 00:02:51.940 --> 00:02:52.990 align:middle line:90% What's your next book? 00:02:52.990 --> 00:02:56.710 align:middle line:84% I'm working on-- because The Free was so hard on me, 00:02:56.710 --> 00:02:59.500 align:middle line:84% I mean it's such a political book for me, 00:02:59.500 --> 00:03:03.160 align:middle line:84% and the subjects were so draining that I wanted 00:03:03.160 --> 00:03:05.150 align:middle line:90% to write a novel for fun. 00:03:05.150 --> 00:03:07.930 align:middle line:84% So I'm writing about two unemployed-- 00:03:07.930 --> 00:03:11.560 align:middle line:84% I grew up in Nevada, and there's an area in Nevada 00:03:11.560 --> 00:03:13.150 align:middle line:84% that I've always wanted to live in. 00:03:13.150 --> 00:03:17.710 align:middle line:84% So I'm writing about two unemployed cowboys kind 00:03:17.710 --> 00:03:20.710 align:middle line:84% of guys-- modern-day cowboys who just 00:03:20.710 --> 00:03:25.360 align:middle line:84% drift into a series of mediocre and bad situations. 00:03:25.360 --> 00:03:26.770 align:middle line:90% And it's really fun. 00:03:26.770 --> 00:03:27.880 align:middle line:90% And they even end up-- 00:03:27.880 --> 00:03:32.550 align:middle line:84% I wanted to have it set here, so I could live in my mind here. 00:03:32.550 --> 00:03:34.300 align:middle line:84% So one of the guys stays here for a while. 00:03:34.300 --> 00:03:37.540 align:middle line:84% But then I made the mistake of driving to Douglas, Arizona, 00:03:37.540 --> 00:03:39.650 align:middle line:90% and I went to the Gadsden Hotel. 00:03:39.650 --> 00:03:44.560 align:middle line:84% And I was so blown away by it and all the clothing stores 00:03:44.560 --> 00:03:48.003 align:middle line:84% down there that I set it mostly down that part of it, 00:03:48.003 --> 00:03:50.170 align:middle line:84% down there, just because I wanted to live in my mind 00:03:50.170 --> 00:03:51.370 align:middle line:90% there. 00:03:51.370 --> 00:03:54.790 align:middle line:84% But really it's about two unemployed cowboys 00:03:54.790 --> 00:03:59.200 align:middle line:84% who fall into some serious bad luck, kind of thing. 00:03:59.200 --> 00:04:01.300 align:middle line:84% It's really fun, but it could be a train wreck. 00:04:01.300 --> 00:04:05.410 align:middle line:84% And I'll know in a year or two if I 00:04:05.410 --> 00:04:08.050 align:middle line:84% have to start over and burn that one, too. 00:04:08.050 --> 00:04:08.560 align:middle line:90% We'll see. 00:04:08.560 --> 00:04:09.500 align:middle line:90% I don't know. 00:04:09.500 --> 00:04:11.950 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:04:11.950 --> 00:04:15.670 align:middle line:84% I was just curious, how long did it take to write The Free? 00:04:15.670 --> 00:04:19.899 align:middle line:84% The Free, I wrote the first draft really fast, 00:04:19.899 --> 00:04:21.880 align:middle line:90% in like six months. 00:04:21.880 --> 00:04:24.730 align:middle line:84% And then I spent three years editing it. 00:04:24.730 --> 00:04:29.290 align:middle line:84% I worked on this one, I think I wrote it 13 or 14 times 00:04:29.290 --> 00:04:31.510 align:middle line:84% from start to finish where I would just-- 00:04:31.510 --> 00:04:34.120 align:middle line:84% I always felt I was getting closer. 00:04:34.120 --> 00:04:36.610 align:middle line:84% I never liked books that change point of views 00:04:36.610 --> 00:04:39.340 align:middle line:84% because it always makes me think of the writer. 00:04:39.340 --> 00:04:41.770 align:middle line:84% And whenever I think of the writer then I'm lost. 00:04:41.770 --> 00:04:44.470 align:middle line:90% 00:04:44.470 --> 00:04:47.923 align:middle line:84% You don't ever want to think about who's 00:04:47.923 --> 00:04:49.840 align:middle line:84% writing the story and the tricks they're using 00:04:49.840 --> 00:04:51.670 align:middle line:90% or why they did this and that. 00:04:51.670 --> 00:04:53.690 align:middle line:84% You just want to disappear into it. 00:04:53.690 --> 00:04:57.370 align:middle line:84% And so, I think part of it took me so long because of that, 00:04:57.370 --> 00:05:01.030 align:middle line:84% because every chapter was a different character. 00:05:01.030 --> 00:05:04.150 align:middle line:84% And also, two of the characters are 00:05:04.150 --> 00:05:06.010 align:middle line:90% handcuffed to their situation. 00:05:06.010 --> 00:05:09.160 align:middle line:84% There's no beer drinking and rambling and drifting off 00:05:09.160 --> 00:05:10.340 align:middle line:90% in this story. 00:05:10.340 --> 00:05:13.400 align:middle line:84% Everybody's handcuffed to their situation pretty hard, 00:05:13.400 --> 00:05:16.690 align:middle line:84% especially Pauline the nurse and the working class guy, Freddie. 00:05:16.690 --> 00:05:19.930 align:middle line:90% So it took me a long time. 00:05:19.930 --> 00:05:22.990 align:middle line:84% It's an easy way to live, no matter what kind of jackass 00:05:22.990 --> 00:05:24.520 align:middle line:90% says writing books is hard. 00:05:24.520 --> 00:05:27.610 align:middle line:84% It's so much easier than most anybody else's life, 00:05:27.610 --> 00:05:30.640 align:middle line:84% but mentally it can wreck your head a little bit. 00:05:30.640 --> 00:05:33.650 align:middle line:84% And it wrecked my head quite a bit. 00:05:33.650 --> 00:05:38.810 align:middle line:84% So that's why I'm in the desert hanging out with cowboys now. 00:05:38.810 --> 00:05:44.750 align:middle line:90% 00:05:44.750 --> 00:05:47.490 align:middle line:84% I know that you wrote about Spokane, Washington. 00:05:47.490 --> 00:05:51.870 align:middle line:84% And I'm familiar with that area because of, off the top 00:05:51.870 --> 00:05:53.120 align:middle line:90% of my head, Sherman Alexie's-- 00:05:53.120 --> 00:05:53.690 align:middle line:90% Sure. 00:05:53.690 --> 00:05:54.500 align:middle line:90% --right? 00:05:54.500 --> 00:05:56.090 align:middle line:84% So I know there's a reservation there, 00:05:56.090 --> 00:06:01.015 align:middle line:84% and I was wondering if your experiences in that area 00:06:01.015 --> 00:06:02.390 align:middle line:84% have to do with the fact that you 00:06:02.390 --> 00:06:05.510 align:middle line:84% write about marginalized, underprivileged people? 00:06:05.510 --> 00:06:06.500 align:middle line:90% Like, um-- 00:06:06.500 --> 00:06:09.350 align:middle line:84% It's really neat that you keep it so grounded. 00:06:09.350 --> 00:06:12.170 align:middle line:84% I mean, I always liked working class stories. 00:06:12.170 --> 00:06:16.040 align:middle line:84% I always wanted to read stories where I could be the hero 00:06:16.040 --> 00:06:20.630 align:middle line:84% or the secretary could be the hero. 00:06:20.630 --> 00:06:22.520 align:middle line:84% I guess that's why I liked Steinbeck as a kid 00:06:22.520 --> 00:06:27.620 align:middle line:84% so much because he made normal people seem 00:06:27.620 --> 00:06:29.370 align:middle line:90% gigantic and amazing. 00:06:29.370 --> 00:06:30.570 align:middle line:90% And they are. 00:06:30.570 --> 00:06:32.893 align:middle line:84% So I've always been attracted that. 00:06:32.893 --> 00:06:34.310 align:middle line:84% You know, to be honest, why I like 00:06:34.310 --> 00:06:37.562 align:middle line:84% Spokane is it's got the coolest name and their architecture--. 00:06:37.562 --> 00:06:39.020 align:middle line:84% The buildings up there are amazing, 00:06:39.020 --> 00:06:41.240 align:middle line:84% and I've just always wanted to live there... 00:06:41.240 --> 00:06:41.990 align:middle line:90% part-time. 00:06:41.990 --> 00:06:43.250 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:06:43.250 --> 00:06:45.870 align:middle line:84% And I just think it's really cool, 00:06:45.870 --> 00:06:48.920 align:middle line:90% so I always set stuff up there. 00:06:48.920 --> 00:06:50.840 align:middle line:90% I like Sherman Alexie. 00:06:50.840 --> 00:06:52.880 align:middle line:84% I was a huge fan-- one of my favorite writers 00:06:52.880 --> 00:06:57.080 align:middle line:84% of all times, James Welch, the Montana writer. 00:06:57.080 --> 00:07:02.600 align:middle line:84% And I think Sherman Alexie wrote a book called Flight. 00:07:02.600 --> 00:07:04.625 align:middle line:84% And in Flight, the kid has a backpack, 00:07:04.625 --> 00:07:07.730 align:middle line:84% and in his backpack is Winter in the Blood by James Welch. 00:07:07.730 --> 00:07:09.650 align:middle line:84% And so Sherman Alexie is always going 00:07:09.650 --> 00:07:12.140 align:middle line:84% to be a hero of mine for having that book in that kid's 00:07:12.140 --> 00:07:13.070 align:middle line:90% backpack. 00:07:13.070 --> 00:07:16.400 align:middle line:84% I think James Welch is probably one 00:07:16.400 --> 00:07:18.470 align:middle line:84% of my all-time favorite writers, and he's got 00:07:18.470 --> 00:07:20.930 align:middle line:84% a book called The Death of Jim Loney. 00:07:20.930 --> 00:07:23.420 align:middle line:84% And it's the best book about alienation 00:07:23.420 --> 00:07:26.240 align:middle line:84% and just being alone in the world. 00:07:26.240 --> 00:07:29.420 align:middle line:84% And it's another book that I collect it, 00:07:29.420 --> 00:07:30.960 align:middle line:90% and I give it away all the time. 00:07:30.960 --> 00:07:32.870 align:middle line:84% And I read it every couple years. 00:07:32.870 --> 00:07:35.780 align:middle line:90% It's a really interesting book. 00:07:35.780 --> 00:07:37.070 align:middle line:90% Long-winded answer on Spokane. 00:07:37.070 --> 00:07:40.680 align:middle line:90% 00:07:40.680 --> 00:07:42.350 align:middle line:90% Hi. 00:07:42.350 --> 00:07:42.850 align:middle line:90% Oh, hey. 00:07:42.850 --> 00:07:45.150 align:middle line:90% Hi. 00:07:45.150 --> 00:07:48.840 align:middle line:84% Let me see if I can articulate this. 00:07:48.840 --> 00:07:50.730 align:middle line:84% I wanted to ask you, when you opened 00:07:50.730 --> 00:07:53.790 align:middle line:84% you were talking about what inspired you to write 00:07:53.790 --> 00:07:57.000 align:middle line:84% The Free-- seeing the soldiers on TV 00:07:57.000 --> 00:08:00.370 align:middle line:90% and thinking about health care. 00:08:00.370 --> 00:08:02.865 align:middle line:84% And in one of our classes recently, 00:08:02.865 --> 00:08:05.850 align:middle line:84% I'm in the MFA program, we were talking 00:08:05.850 --> 00:08:08.820 align:middle line:84% about artist manifestos, and we read something by Oscar Wilde 00:08:08.820 --> 00:08:13.740 align:middle line:84% that "all art is useless," one of his openings of Dorian Gray. 00:08:13.740 --> 00:08:16.800 align:middle line:84% And I'm really curious to hear you talk maybe 00:08:16.800 --> 00:08:19.590 align:middle line:90% about the opposite of that? 00:08:19.590 --> 00:08:21.900 align:middle line:84% You said something about art maybe trying 00:08:21.900 --> 00:08:23.640 align:middle line:90% to achieve something good. 00:08:23.640 --> 00:08:26.490 align:middle line:84% Looking at these people's lives that are really hard 00:08:26.490 --> 00:08:29.130 align:middle line:84% and not maybe escaping into something prettier 00:08:29.130 --> 00:08:31.410 align:middle line:90% like a Harlequin romance. 00:08:31.410 --> 00:08:37.205 align:middle line:84% Well, I think a lot of times the novels, 00:08:37.205 --> 00:08:38.580 align:middle line:84% that one of its greatest gifts is 00:08:38.580 --> 00:08:40.260 align:middle line:84% you can get inside somebody else's shoes 00:08:40.260 --> 00:08:41.789 align:middle line:84% and not feel so alone in the world. 00:08:41.789 --> 00:08:44.970 align:middle line:84% And also, the novel is so personal. 00:08:44.970 --> 00:08:45.780 align:middle line:90% It's yours. 00:08:45.780 --> 00:08:47.760 align:middle line:84% It's not like you're in a movie theater. 00:08:47.760 --> 00:08:49.560 align:middle line:84% That's why I love paperbacks because you 00:08:49.560 --> 00:08:51.330 align:middle line:90% can put them in your coat. 00:08:51.330 --> 00:08:52.020 align:middle line:90% They're yours. 00:08:52.020 --> 00:08:54.180 align:middle line:84% They're your pal, nobody else's in the world. 00:08:54.180 --> 00:08:56.730 align:middle line:84% And then when you disappear into the world, 00:08:56.730 --> 00:08:57.780 align:middle line:90% it's your world, too. 00:08:57.780 --> 00:09:00.030 align:middle line:84% And you kind of shade it with what you want 00:09:00.030 --> 00:09:01.420 align:middle line:90% and what you don't want. 00:09:01.420 --> 00:09:03.030 align:middle line:84% So I've always believed in the novel. 00:09:03.030 --> 00:09:06.180 align:middle line:84% It's the greatest art form that way, I think. 00:09:06.180 --> 00:09:12.050 align:middle line:84% As far as working class issues and stuff like that, 00:09:12.050 --> 00:09:15.770 align:middle line:84% if you read Steinbeck at 13 and 14, 00:09:15.770 --> 00:09:18.420 align:middle line:84% you become obsessed with the work, like I did. 00:09:18.420 --> 00:09:22.050 align:middle line:84% My mom worked at a place which was really sexist, 00:09:22.050 --> 00:09:24.360 align:middle line:84% and she always got passed over for raises. 00:09:24.360 --> 00:09:27.240 align:middle line:84% And she would always tell you about it all fucking night long 00:09:27.240 --> 00:09:27.750 align:middle line:90% about it. 00:09:27.750 --> 00:09:28.650 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:09:28.650 --> 00:09:31.230 align:middle line:84% But so I got obsessed with that and guys 00:09:31.230 --> 00:09:33.890 align:middle line:84% that work jobs that never got raises. 00:09:33.890 --> 00:09:35.760 align:middle line:84% Then you read The Jungle when you're 00:09:35.760 --> 00:09:40.050 align:middle line:84% a kid, and Grapes of Wrath, and In Dubious Battle, 00:09:40.050 --> 00:09:41.730 align:middle line:84% and all these, like the Steinbeck stuff. 00:09:41.730 --> 00:09:44.310 align:middle line:90% And Studs Terkel, Working. 00:09:44.310 --> 00:09:46.210 align:middle line:84% I read all that stuff by the time I was 15, 00:09:46.210 --> 00:09:49.110 align:middle line:90% and so I was a union guy at 15. 00:09:49.110 --> 00:09:51.360 align:middle line:84% And I didn't really even know what it was. 00:09:51.360 --> 00:09:52.230 align:middle line:90% I lived in Reno. 00:09:52.230 --> 00:09:54.840 align:middle line:84% There was no such thing at that time as unemployment in Reno 00:09:54.840 --> 00:09:56.400 align:middle line:84% because the casinos are doing good. 00:09:56.400 --> 00:09:58.260 align:middle line:84% And my mom was always like, if you're sober 00:09:58.260 --> 00:10:01.530 align:middle line:84% and you have a clean shirt, you can get a job in Reno. 00:10:01.530 --> 00:10:04.980 align:middle line:84% But I was really obsessed with that stuff 00:10:04.980 --> 00:10:08.370 align:middle line:84% because I knew there's nothing worse than working 00:10:08.370 --> 00:10:11.370 align:middle line:84% for minimum wage and having some guy belittle you. 00:10:11.370 --> 00:10:13.830 align:middle line:84% And I spent half my life working jobs 00:10:13.830 --> 00:10:15.495 align:middle line:84% where guys would just fuck with you, 00:10:15.495 --> 00:10:16.620 align:middle line:90% and you're making no money. 00:10:16.620 --> 00:10:21.510 align:middle line:84% And then you realize you're just trying to please this guy. 00:10:21.510 --> 00:10:23.790 align:middle line:84% And it makes me think, I was in Wendy's once 00:10:23.790 --> 00:10:25.770 align:middle line:84% and this guy was yelling at the clerk. 00:10:25.770 --> 00:10:28.410 align:middle line:84% This girl, she's 16, 17, real cute, nice, 00:10:28.410 --> 00:10:31.020 align:middle line:84% and she was trying to figure out the system. 00:10:31.020 --> 00:10:32.912 align:middle line:84% And any time you're figuring something 00:10:32.912 --> 00:10:33.870 align:middle line:90% like that, that's hard. 00:10:33.870 --> 00:10:36.232 align:middle line:84% You take a Harvard professor and you stick them 00:10:36.232 --> 00:10:38.190 align:middle line:84% in that situation with somebody yelling at him, 00:10:38.190 --> 00:10:40.110 align:middle line:90% he might screw it up, too. 00:10:40.110 --> 00:10:41.730 align:middle line:84% And I remembered, this poor girl-- 00:10:41.730 --> 00:10:45.060 align:middle line:84% she's getting screwed with by this guy. 00:10:45.060 --> 00:10:47.820 align:middle line:84% He's trying to define what kind of person she is. 00:10:47.820 --> 00:10:50.670 align:middle line:84% And he's belittling her and making her feel small. 00:10:50.670 --> 00:10:52.893 align:middle line:90% And for Wendy's. 00:10:52.893 --> 00:10:54.810 align:middle line:84% And that shit happens every day, all day long. 00:10:54.810 --> 00:10:56.550 align:middle line:84% And I just would think about just 00:10:56.550 --> 00:10:58.840 align:middle line:84% because I think my mom was in that situation. 00:10:58.840 --> 00:11:01.350 align:middle line:84% And like I said, my mom would like to talk a lot about it. 00:11:01.350 --> 00:11:05.943 align:middle line:84% So those issues always stuck with me. 00:11:05.943 --> 00:11:07.110 align:middle line:90% And I like reading about it. 00:11:07.110 --> 00:11:09.840 align:middle line:84% I like reading about when the guy that's the janitor 00:11:09.840 --> 00:11:12.390 align:middle line:84% is the hero, and he gets the girl, you know? 00:11:12.390 --> 00:11:13.260 align:middle line:90% Why not? 00:11:13.260 --> 00:11:17.650 align:middle line:84% Why can't the janitor get the girl once in a while? 00:11:17.650 --> 00:11:21.600 align:middle line:84% I just started hating reading about guys in turtlenecks 00:11:21.600 --> 00:11:25.380 align:middle line:90% and CEOs and shit like that. 00:11:25.380 --> 00:11:27.750 align:middle line:84% I don't want to read about stuff like that. 00:11:27.750 --> 00:11:29.760 align:middle line:90% That's why I like Larry Brown. 00:11:29.760 --> 00:11:32.820 align:middle line:84% Larry Brown is the great southern working class writer. 00:11:32.820 --> 00:11:36.630 align:middle line:84% You read guys like that and you just want to move in with them. 00:11:36.630 --> 00:11:38.750 align:middle line:84% You want to call them up and move in. 00:11:38.750 --> 00:11:40.200 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:11:40.200 --> 00:11:41.730 align:middle line:84% Speaking of moving in, Willy, we'd 00:11:41.730 --> 00:11:44.520 align:middle line:84% be really fortunate to have you and your family 00:11:44.520 --> 00:11:45.900 align:middle line:90% down here in Tucson. 00:11:45.900 --> 00:11:47.040 align:middle line:90% Yeah, we'll move in. 00:11:47.040 --> 00:11:47.805 align:middle line:90% If you got-- 00:11:47.805 --> 00:11:50.257 align:middle line:84% I think we can find a place to put the horses though. 00:11:50.257 --> 00:11:51.840 align:middle line:84% They actually might like it down here. 00:11:51.840 --> 00:11:53.715 align:middle line:84% Yeah, in the winter I'm sure they would. 00:11:53.715 --> 00:11:55.500 align:middle line:84% We got a radio station, KXCI, that'll 00:11:55.500 --> 00:11:56.910 align:middle line:90% actually play your music. 00:11:56.910 --> 00:11:59.100 align:middle line:84% And you got that AM station that plays oldies, 00:11:59.100 --> 00:12:01.590 align:middle line:84% like the old, old peoples, which is what 00:12:01.590 --> 00:12:04.050 align:middle line:90% I do lately to ease my mind. 00:12:04.050 --> 00:12:07.730 align:middle line:84% I just listen to hits from the 40s and 50s. 00:12:07.730 --> 00:12:10.830 align:middle line:84% So I like the movie version of The Motel Life. 00:12:10.830 --> 00:12:12.580 align:middle line:84% I was wondering what you thought about it. 00:12:12.580 --> 00:12:15.460 align:middle line:84% I wondered, did you participate in the screenplay 00:12:15.460 --> 00:12:19.330 align:middle line:84% and do you have any other movie projects from your books coming 00:12:19.330 --> 00:12:20.590 align:middle line:90% out? 00:12:20.590 --> 00:12:23.630 align:middle line:84% Yeah, all my books, except for The Free, 00:12:23.630 --> 00:12:28.300 align:middle line:84% are in some kind of process, I guess, of being made. 00:12:28.300 --> 00:12:31.420 align:middle line:84% But what I learned about that is that they're 00:12:31.420 --> 00:12:33.430 align:middle line:84% world-class bullshitters, and I think 00:12:33.430 --> 00:12:37.000 align:middle line:84% they have to convince themselves that it's getting made. 00:12:37.000 --> 00:12:39.400 align:middle line:84% So they try to convince you that it's getting made. 00:12:39.400 --> 00:12:42.850 align:middle line:84% It's a pyramid scheme where you just hope that, finally, it all 00:12:42.850 --> 00:12:43.820 align:middle line:90% works out. 00:12:43.820 --> 00:12:45.845 align:middle line:90% So you never know. 00:12:45.845 --> 00:12:47.470 align:middle line:84% And I don't really pay attention to it. 00:12:47.470 --> 00:12:48.153 align:middle line:90% At first I did. 00:12:48.153 --> 00:12:49.570 align:middle line:84% You're like, oh my god, maybe I'll 00:12:49.570 --> 00:12:51.380 align:middle line:84% buy this and that if they make it. 00:12:51.380 --> 00:12:54.910 align:middle line:84% And then you realize that they all say the same spiel. 00:12:54.910 --> 00:12:56.650 align:middle line:84% The Motel Life-- you know how I found out 00:12:56.650 --> 00:13:00.850 align:middle line:84% they made the movie was I was trying to buy a Ford truck, 00:13:00.850 --> 00:13:04.480 align:middle line:84% and I met this guy-- this really interesting guy 00:13:04.480 --> 00:13:09.010 align:middle line:84% who's a massive hunter, but he's also a naturopath. 00:13:09.010 --> 00:13:11.470 align:middle line:84% I've never met a naturopath who chews and drinks 00:13:11.470 --> 00:13:14.043 align:middle line:90% whiskey and hunts all the time. 00:13:14.043 --> 00:13:14.960 align:middle line:90% But he's a naturopath. 00:13:14.960 --> 00:13:17.350 align:middle line:84% But he knew everything about Ford trucks. 00:13:17.350 --> 00:13:19.340 align:middle line:84% And so I got his number, and I go, so hey, 00:13:19.340 --> 00:13:20.770 align:middle line:90% which year should I buy? 00:13:20.770 --> 00:13:23.380 align:middle line:84% Because supposedly there's years that you shouldn't buy 00:13:23.380 --> 00:13:24.550 align:middle line:90% and years you should buy. 00:13:24.550 --> 00:13:26.800 align:middle line:84% And so I called him, and we talked about it. 00:13:26.800 --> 00:13:28.967 align:middle line:84% And then he calls me like three days later and goes, 00:13:28.967 --> 00:13:31.150 align:middle line:84% congratulations on-- they're making your movie. 00:13:31.150 --> 00:13:32.918 align:middle line:84% I hear they're starting in two weeks. 00:13:32.918 --> 00:13:34.460 align:middle line:84% And I go, what are you talking about? 00:13:34.460 --> 00:13:35.877 align:middle line:84% He goes, my buddy's working on it. 00:13:35.877 --> 00:13:37.000 align:middle line:90% He just headed down there. 00:13:37.000 --> 00:13:37.520 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:13:37.520 --> 00:13:39.010 align:middle line:90% And so I didn't know. 00:13:39.010 --> 00:13:42.040 align:middle line:90% I had no idea. 00:13:42.040 --> 00:13:43.990 align:middle line:84% So I called those guys up, and I'm like, hey, 00:13:43.990 --> 00:13:46.120 align:middle line:84% they say you guys are making the movie. 00:13:46.120 --> 00:13:48.730 align:middle line:84% And they're like, oh, yeah, we forgot to tell you. 00:13:48.730 --> 00:13:50.680 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:13:50.680 --> 00:13:51.310 align:middle line:90% 00:13:51.310 --> 00:13:52.810 align:middle line:90% But I made them feel guilty. 00:13:52.810 --> 00:13:55.030 align:middle line:84% I just kept going, you would do that? 00:13:55.030 --> 00:13:57.070 align:middle line:84% And then they flew me down, and I 00:13:57.070 --> 00:13:59.530 align:middle line:84% got to meet Kris Kristofferson because of it, which 00:13:59.530 --> 00:14:01.930 align:middle line:90% was a nice guilt trip. 00:14:01.930 --> 00:14:06.980 align:middle line:84% They took my guilt trip and actually paid me back with it. 00:14:06.980 --> 00:14:07.480 align:middle line:90% I like it. 00:14:07.480 --> 00:14:09.550 align:middle line:84% I think they tried really hard on it. 00:14:09.550 --> 00:14:11.620 align:middle line:90% They shot it in Reno. 00:14:11.620 --> 00:14:15.280 align:middle line:84% All the places in the book, all the places I grew up going to-- 00:14:15.280 --> 00:14:17.380 align:middle line:90% some of which are closed now-- 00:14:17.380 --> 00:14:19.900 align:middle line:90% are forever documented for me. 00:14:19.900 --> 00:14:21.730 align:middle line:90% I like that. 00:14:21.730 --> 00:14:24.490 align:middle line:84% You can't fault guys for trying really hard. 00:14:24.490 --> 00:14:26.650 align:middle line:84% And they tried really hard, and so I like it. 00:14:26.650 --> 00:14:31.180 align:middle line:84% And I probably would have made a much worse movie, myself. 00:14:31.180 --> 00:14:33.640 align:middle line:84% But I'm a fan of movies, I really am. 00:14:33.640 --> 00:14:37.300 align:middle line:84% But I have no interest in that life at all, 00:14:37.300 --> 00:14:39.820 align:middle line:84% or writing screenplays or anything like that. 00:14:39.820 --> 00:14:42.820 align:middle line:84% I'd rather just live under my little rock 00:14:42.820 --> 00:14:46.480 align:middle line:84% and write novels and go see the movies. 00:14:46.480 --> 00:14:49.360 align:middle line:90% 00:14:49.360 --> 00:14:50.260 align:middle line:90% OK. 00:14:50.260 --> 00:14:51.760 align:middle line:84% I hope you take this the right way-- 00:14:51.760 --> 00:14:52.380 align:middle line:90% No, you can-- 00:14:52.380 --> 00:14:54.400 align:middle line:84% --because, to me, it's a very positive thing. 00:14:54.400 --> 00:14:55.120 align:middle line:90% OK. 00:14:55.120 --> 00:14:55.765 align:middle line:90% Holy shit. 00:14:55.765 --> 00:14:56.682 align:middle line:90% I'm having a feeling-- 00:14:56.682 --> 00:14:58.000 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:14:58.000 --> 00:14:59.470 align:middle line:90% --when I listen to you talking. 00:14:59.470 --> 00:15:00.845 align:middle line:84% I haven't read any of your books, 00:15:00.845 --> 00:15:02.710 align:middle line:90% but I loved your reading. 00:15:02.710 --> 00:15:03.500 align:middle line:90% It was amazing. 00:15:03.500 --> 00:15:05.375 align:middle line:84% And I'm having a very similar feeling to when 00:15:05.375 --> 00:15:07.450 align:middle line:90% I listen to "The River" or-- 00:15:07.450 --> 00:15:08.530 align:middle line:90% Oh, yeah. 00:15:08.530 --> 00:15:09.980 align:middle line:84% "--Darkness on the Edge of Town." 00:15:09.980 --> 00:15:10.480 align:middle line:90% Sure. 00:15:10.480 --> 00:15:13.120 align:middle line:84% So I'm wondering, what is your most Bruce Springsteen book 00:15:13.120 --> 00:15:14.064 align:middle line:90% that I can read? 00:15:14.064 --> 00:15:15.010 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:15:15.010 --> 00:15:18.070 align:middle line:90% What's like the most Bruce book? 00:15:18.070 --> 00:15:19.040 align:middle line:90% I love Springsteen. 00:15:19.040 --> 00:15:19.540 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:15:19.540 --> 00:15:19.930 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:15:19.930 --> 00:15:20.970 align:middle line:90% And you sound like him-- 00:15:20.970 --> 00:15:21.470 align:middle line:90% Thanks. 00:15:21.470 --> 00:15:24.280 align:middle line:84% Well, every morning I think I'm him. 00:15:24.280 --> 00:15:25.310 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:15:25.310 --> 00:15:26.710 align:middle line:90% --this is him? 00:15:26.710 --> 00:15:27.430 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:15:27.430 --> 00:15:28.260 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:15:28.260 --> 00:15:31.800 align:middle line:84% No, I grew up loving Springsteen. 00:15:31.800 --> 00:15:34.740 align:middle line:84% My brother, when he left home, he had a bunch of records, 00:15:34.740 --> 00:15:37.440 align:middle line:84% and when he was loading them into his car, 00:15:37.440 --> 00:15:39.540 align:middle line:84% I started stealing them because he 00:15:39.540 --> 00:15:42.390 align:middle line:84% was leaving three states away and I figured that that'd 00:15:42.390 --> 00:15:43.710 align:middle line:90% be the best time to steal them. 00:15:43.710 --> 00:15:44.210 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:15:44.210 --> 00:15:48.168 align:middle line:84% And I stole the Greetings from Asbury Park. 00:15:48.168 --> 00:15:48.960 align:middle line:90% I love that record. 00:15:48.960 --> 00:15:52.620 align:middle line:84% I was like 13, and I went down to our local record store 00:15:52.620 --> 00:15:55.168 align:middle line:84% and I said, there's this guy, Bruce Springsteen, 00:15:55.168 --> 00:15:56.460 align:middle line:90% does he have any other records? 00:15:56.460 --> 00:16:01.600 align:middle line:84% And it was your typical long-haired hippie record 00:16:01.600 --> 00:16:02.100 align:middle line:90% store-- 00:16:02.100 --> 00:16:03.420 align:middle line:90% the genius record store guy. 00:16:03.420 --> 00:16:05.880 align:middle line:84% And he came and he actually got from behind the counter, 00:16:05.880 --> 00:16:10.380 align:middle line:84% and he hugged me, like not close, but grabbed me and go, 00:16:10.380 --> 00:16:11.760 align:middle line:90% you're so lucky. 00:16:11.760 --> 00:16:12.930 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:16:12.930 --> 00:16:15.480 align:middle line:84% And he sent me on my Springsteen journey. 00:16:15.480 --> 00:16:17.850 align:middle line:90% So I love Springsteen. 00:16:17.850 --> 00:16:21.340 align:middle line:90% So I would say The Motel Life-- 00:16:21.340 --> 00:16:21.840 align:middle line:90% OK. 00:16:21.840 --> 00:16:25.380 align:middle line:84% --probably is that, or Lean on Pete 00:16:25.380 --> 00:16:28.920 align:middle line:90% are the two most Springsteenish. 00:16:28.920 --> 00:16:30.782 align:middle line:90% Nice question. 00:16:30.782 --> 00:16:32.490 align:middle line:84% And I think that's probably about as good 00:16:32.490 --> 00:16:33.690 align:middle line:90% as it's going to get. 00:16:33.690 --> 00:16:34.512 align:middle line:90% Probably. 00:16:34.512 --> 00:16:35.470 align:middle line:90% Let's wrap it up there. 00:16:35.470 --> 00:16:36.670 align:middle line:90% Willy, thank you so much. 00:16:36.670 --> 00:16:36.930 align:middle line:90% Sure. 00:16:36.930 --> 00:16:37.430 align:middle line:90% Thanks. 00:16:37.430 --> 00:16:38.760 align:middle line:90% Thank you all for being here. 00:16:38.760 --> 00:16:40.910 align:middle line:90% [APPLAUSE] 00:16:40.910 --> 00:16:45.000 align:middle line:90%