WEBVTT

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So I have two questions.

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I'll try to be quick, though.

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One of them is kind
of silly, but do you

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know about relic forests?

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The Ice Age passed over
and all the trees died,

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but so-- there are a few
for-- there's one in Arizona,

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there's some in--

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where the trees don't change
from eons and eons ago

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and they're--

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I guess not.

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So--

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Yeah, I don't know that term.

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Yeah.

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OK, never mind, then.

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[LAUGHTER] I guess the other--
the more technical question was

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just-- so in writing
about ecology,

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it seems like there are many,
many different interests

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to balance, and even
in just listening

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to you covering so much ground.

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Do you have any strategies
or technical ways

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you decide what-- how
to prioritize what

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you're going to look at first?

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I mean, you're here
talking about New Harmony

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and that's the big focus.

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But then there's so
many different places

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we go within that.

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How do you keep
it all organized?

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Well, I'm sorry.

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When you say so many
places we go within that,

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what do you mean?

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Not physical places,
maybe, but so many

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different ideas or
different, like,

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key topics, and different people
who are invested in the place.

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I think it has a lot to
do with audience, knowing

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who your audience is.

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When Wendell Berry first started
writing about strip mining

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in Kentucky, the very
first pieces he wrote,

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he quoted the prophet Jeremiah.

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And they were very
religious in their scope.

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And I think he was
doing that because--

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I mean, he wanted to
remind Kentuckians,

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who are very conservative
religious people,

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what's in the Bible that
they read or don't read.

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And so I think,
knowing that audience,

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he used religion in
a real obvious way.

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But when he went to give
the Jefferson Lectures

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a couple of years ago in
DC, and he had Supreme Court

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justices in the audience, he
didn't talk about religion

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at all.

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He talked about affection.

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The piece was called "It
All Turns on Affection."

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And I think what he realized--

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affection is a much more
ecumenical way of uniting

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people than religion is.

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Religion is fine for
certain audiences.

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And I've obviously used it
to speak to many audiences.

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But it obviously has
its limitations, too,

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and I think Wendell sensed that.

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And so I think it does.

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It just-- it has a lot to do
with who you're talking to.

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Thanks, Erik.

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That was lovely.

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My question goes
to the relationship

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between highly traumatic,
personal subject matter, which

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you started with, and
writing that in a way,

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knowing that kin and friends
and others will be reading that.

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Can you talk a little bit about
the process of self-selection?

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I don't want to use the
term self-censorship.

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But some of us have to think
in those terms, as well.

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Can you talk a little
bit about that,

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and knowing what
the out-- or not

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knowing what the outcome will
be when you put something

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in the public realm?

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I was talking to some nonfiction
writers about this today.

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And it's something
that is a not--

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it's something fiction writers
don't really have to worry

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about because if somebody gets
miffed about a character you

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create in fiction, you
can just say, well,

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that's not really you--

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that was somebody else.

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But in nonfiction,
you can't do that.

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And so you really have to
make these arduous decisions

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about what you're willing
to live with in terms

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of what you put out there.

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And I mean, in a lot of ways, I
took the cowardly route, which

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was I waited until
my grandfather was

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dead to publish this book.

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If I had published it
when it was alive--

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when he was alive, our
relationship would have ended.

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I know it would have.

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And so I don't know if I would
have had the courage to publish

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this when he was alive.

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I mean, I wasn't ready to.

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It was just a bunch of
notes when he was alive.

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But my-- I was really
settling scores in this book.

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And that's not the purest
impulse in the world to write.

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But I mean, just to talk
about my grandfather,

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I felt like he'd
done a lot of damage.

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And I felt like I needed
to settle that score,

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even if it was with a ghost.

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When you're writing about people
who are still alive and you

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know they're going to
read your work, that's--

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that's really, really--
that's really difficult.

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And I see with my
students all the time

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trying to make that decision
because they so badly want

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to tell the truth and they want
to get the truth on the page.

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And then once it's there,
how do they, or can they,

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deal with the consequences,
with the shrapnel

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that's going to occur when
family members read it?

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And it's just-- it's
an occupational hazard

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for the nonfiction writer.

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There's no way around it.

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I mean, when you're
telling the truth,

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there's a real responsibility
that goes along with it.

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And there's some
real heartache that

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goes along with it, as well.

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I agree.

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But I want to challenge
you on the word

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"cowardice," if
I could, briefly.

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I guess, what it--

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I mean, isn't it--
is reticence also

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kind of a form of
compassion, too?

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I mean, not telling the story
while your grandfather is

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alive-- isn't that also sort of
a form of compassion for him,

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as well?

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Does that make sense?

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Yeah, yeah.

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I mean, I would certainly
like to see it that way.

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I don't-- this story wouldn't
have done him any good.

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He wouldn't have--

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I don't think he
would have really

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changed his mind,
admitted that I was right,

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rolled around on the floor
like I would have wanted him.

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I don't-- you know-- nothing.

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So-- yeah, it's--

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yeah, I hope so.

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[LAUGHTER]

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We have time for one more,
if there's another question.

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Oh, there's one.

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You spoke about a reunification
with the natural world.

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And I'm wondering whether you
think that's actually possible

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or whether-- whether
we like it or not,

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we do have dominion
over creation,

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as the Hebrew
Bible would have--?

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Well, we do have
dominion over creation.

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I mean, you can see it in my
state more than any state.

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I mean, what strip miners
have done in Kentucky

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is complete dominion.

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And they'll-- they'll stand
up at hearings and say it.

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They'll say it's in the Bible.

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We should have dominion.

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But it's also interesting--
the thing that really rattles

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a strip mine operator more than
anything is when a religious

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person gets up at this hearing--

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at these hearings-- and talks
about the "dress and care"

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phrase from Genesis.

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And I've seen strip
miners get so upset

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and just say, why can't we
leave religion out of this?

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Because I think they
know, on some level,

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that may be the best argument
that the other side has.

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And the other side is
making that argument

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for reunification.

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It's a really good question.

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It's a complicated question.

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Yeah, we'll never have--

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obviously, we'll never
have total reunification.

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We'll never return the world
to a pre-industrial level.

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But I think it's a
pregnant metaphor.

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I think it's a powerful
metaphor that's worth--

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and I think it--

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there is a Jamesian
pragmatism behind it

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that does cause
people to want to act.

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You had a question.

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I have two questions.

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One, I'll ask you after
we're through, if possible,

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about Furnace Mountain.

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The other is about grace.

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And I was wondering if
your grandfather never

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talked about grace and what you
have learned about grace more

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recently?

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Man, I never-- I shouldn't have
asked you to ask a question.

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[LAUGHTER]

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I should have stopped
with this guy.

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Um-- I--

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I don't think I even
understand what grace is.

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I would like to, but it's
another one of those words

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that, when I try
to use it, I just

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feel myself becoming
more and more dishonest.

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And it's just-- it's a big,
abstract word that I can't--

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I can't really do anything with.

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And I wish I had
a better answer.

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You don't remember
your grandfather

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talking about grace?

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I don't remember him
talking about grace.

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You know, I didn't--

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I wasn't at every sermon--

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sermon he preached.

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I suspect he did.

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I suspect he did.

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And maybe that's what--

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maybe that's what he was--

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he was counting on.

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And maybe that's what we
should all be counting on.

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Thank you for your patience.

00:10:55.090 --> 00:10:55.495 align:middle line:90%
Yes, thank you so much.

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Thank you for-- thank
you for coming out.

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[APPLAUSE]

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