WEBVTT

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So in your metaphor of
the waterslides, yeah,

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what's gravity in the metaphor?

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There has to be gravity
for a waterslide to work.

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I don't know.

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I'm not responsible
for my metaphors.

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I mean, I think that's
the, I mean, the feeling.

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But yeah, I mean, I think that's
the gravity is the force that

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keeps you moving.

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It is part of the fear and
part of the excitement.

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I don't know.

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Maybe in-- maybe
the gravity-- that's

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the force that's actually
keeping the poem.

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The gravity is the
center, and I think

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it might be the combination
of these things.

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What is in my world?

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How am I part of it?

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How am I seeing it?

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How can I provide
a vision of it?

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So it's a combination
of the pursuit

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of the impulses behind the
poet's mission, which is--

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I mean, I think the desire
to create a work of art

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dominates any sort of
social political factor.

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And so it's a combination
of the potential

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for contributing to a
discourse but also creating

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this thing that becomes a
focal point of discussion.

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But also the real anxiety,
the real anxiety that

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drives the poem.

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So it's a combination of having
a real, sort of, fear, anxiety.

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We're talking about dread
in talking about Tocqueville

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combined with hope
that this work will

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create a certain awareness.

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Sometimes that
certain awareness is

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to reach the bottom of despair.

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It's to know how
deep the see is,

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and that itself is a
great source of knowledge

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in that sense.

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So yeah, but then we
are going to move around

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to figure out all the
parameters of this subject,

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of its tragedies, of its
potential points of recovery.

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Yeah, that's the,
sort of, swirling,

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but the force that's
putting it all together

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is a serious curiosity,
a certain and serious,

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I would say, anxiety,
to some degree

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a personal and collective hope.

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Is there another question?

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We have time for one more.

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Just checking.

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You started off by talking
about the epic poem

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that you didn't write.

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Yeah.

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So what's the relationship
between that poem

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and Tocqueville
and the long poem

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that you wrote for that book?

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I don't know.

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Maybe because of--

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Me becoming a
citizen or becoming

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a part of the place, citizens
it's talked about as one

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of the requirements or
the sense of belonging,

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and I think by the
time Tocqueville came,

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the sense of--

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what shall I say--
citizenship in a larger sense

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had been anchored.

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I feel it, and I don't
mean just, sort of,

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American citizenship
but a sense of like I

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am a person of the world or
responsible to say things

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to contribute, to be
a part of a dialogue.

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So taking up that, sort of--

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it's maybe agency, I
think, the difference

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that Tocqueville
claims a certain agency

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to talk about all of these
things together, and to,

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sort of, critique Tocqueville
or to even say, oh, we

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need a new Tocqueville,
let it be my poem,

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I think that's, kind
of, an outrageous--

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but, sort of, that's the change.

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I mean, I think when I
was a lot of cautious,

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with this character.

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I didn't have this letter.

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And I think it was
a good move not

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to begin with the long poem,
especially when you didn't have

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a lot of the information
or a lot of the research

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or really in a sense
of I didn't know how

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to place that poem in that
conversation about Islamophobia

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and agoraphobia and
racism in America.

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And so as much as I was
interested and as much

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as my writing was a way to
preserve a lot of memory,

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it didn't seem like that
would have been the way to go.

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With Tocqueville,
I think there's

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a certain sense of
I need to do this,

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and this is a
sense of I need to.

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It's very important that
this thing gets talked about.

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I didn't feel that
hesitance at all.

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So maybe there's a difference.

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But citizenship in a broader
sense is an important, sort of,

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gravity.

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[LAUGH]

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Well, thank you so much, Khaled.

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Thank you.

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[APPLAUSE]

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