WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:01.440 align:middle line:90% 00:00:01.440 --> 00:00:03.420 align:middle line:84% When did you first start writing, 00:00:03.420 --> 00:00:05.400 align:middle line:84% and if it was when you were incarcerated, 00:00:05.400 --> 00:00:07.945 align:middle line:84% what kinds of things did you first like to write about? 00:00:07.945 --> 00:00:09.570 align:middle line:84% Well I started-- I didn't start writing 00:00:09.570 --> 00:00:12.520 align:middle line:90% until I was incarcerated. 00:00:12.520 --> 00:00:17.460 align:middle line:84% I was-- I fancied myself writing fiction, actually. 00:00:17.460 --> 00:00:21.480 align:middle line:84% So I started writing these stories 00:00:21.480 --> 00:00:24.090 align:middle line:84% and somewhere along the time-- on some of-- somewhere 00:00:24.090 --> 00:00:28.860 align:middle line:84% along the way, my protagonist was a little girl 00:00:28.860 --> 00:00:30.845 align:middle line:84% that was from Clifton Terrace, which 00:00:30.845 --> 00:00:33.360 align:middle line:84% is these projects in Washington DC. 00:00:33.360 --> 00:00:37.110 align:middle line:84% And she recited poetry, and I didn't 00:00:37.110 --> 00:00:39.120 align:middle line:90% know what a poem really was. 00:00:39.120 --> 00:00:42.910 align:middle line:90% So so I had to figure that out. 00:00:42.910 --> 00:00:46.860 align:middle line:84% And so my first attempts were these feeble poems, 00:00:46.860 --> 00:00:48.780 align:middle line:84% but then one day I was in the day room, 00:00:48.780 --> 00:00:52.500 align:middle line:84% and there was an article in The Washington Post, that 00:00:52.500 --> 00:00:56.010 align:middle line:84% highlighted this is poet from DC named E. Ethelbert Miller, who 00:00:56.010 --> 00:00:57.930 align:middle line:84% was actually at Howard and I never 00:00:57.930 --> 00:00:59.340 align:middle line:90% knew him while I was there. 00:00:59.340 --> 00:01:01.470 align:middle line:84% But that was, of course, it was not 00:01:01.470 --> 00:01:03.280 align:middle line:90% something that was on my radar. 00:01:03.280 --> 00:01:05.370 align:middle line:84% And so I actually wrote him, and it 00:01:05.370 --> 00:01:09.330 align:middle line:84% started a lifelong friendship, but also a correspondence 00:01:09.330 --> 00:01:11.770 align:middle line:84% in sort of guiding me into the things 00:01:11.770 --> 00:01:15.010 align:middle line:84% I should be reading and thinking about. 00:01:15.010 --> 00:01:19.380 align:middle line:84% And so by the time my sentence was commuted, 00:01:19.380 --> 00:01:22.800 align:middle line:84% my sentence was commuted in 2000 and I 00:01:22.800 --> 00:01:27.360 align:middle line:84% was sent to a program in North Carolina for two years, 00:01:27.360 --> 00:01:31.200 align:middle line:84% and I began to sort of really, really write. 00:01:31.200 --> 00:01:34.020 align:middle line:84% And I would go to these open mics 00:01:34.020 --> 00:01:35.800 align:middle line:90% and sort of read my poetry. 00:01:35.800 --> 00:01:38.100 align:middle line:84% So it kind of started there, but while I was there, 00:01:38.100 --> 00:01:43.920 align:middle line:84% I would just sort of write essays, part of a group, 00:01:43.920 --> 00:01:46.080 align:middle line:90% sort of a group therapy stuff. 00:01:46.080 --> 00:01:48.090 align:middle line:84% And before I went-- before I went to-- 00:01:48.090 --> 00:01:50.310 align:middle line:90% I was sent to state prison. 00:01:50.310 --> 00:01:52.492 align:middle line:84% One of the counselors called me in her office. 00:01:52.492 --> 00:01:53.700 align:middle line:90% Matter of fact, I called you. 00:01:53.700 --> 00:01:55.560 align:middle line:84% I called my dad, my family that day. 00:01:55.560 --> 00:02:02.100 align:middle line:84% You don't know this but she let me use the telephone. 00:02:02.100 --> 00:02:04.290 align:middle line:84% And then when-- and before I left, 00:02:04.290 --> 00:02:08.580 align:middle line:84% she told me to make a promise that I would keep writing. 00:02:08.580 --> 00:02:11.650 align:middle line:84% She said there's something there, 00:02:11.650 --> 00:02:16.090 align:middle line:84% and I really think that you have a chance to say something. 00:02:16.090 --> 00:02:19.560 align:middle line:84% And so that really stuck with me and so I kept that little one 00:02:19.560 --> 00:02:22.320 align:middle line:84% piece of hope when I went to the state prison, 00:02:22.320 --> 00:02:24.625 align:middle line:84% so I wrote every day, and just like a feeling-- 00:02:24.625 --> 00:02:26.250 align:middle line:84% I would feel my battle with this stuff. 00:02:26.250 --> 00:02:29.165 align:middle line:90% 00:02:29.165 --> 00:02:31.113 align:middle line:84% And that was it, you know what I mean? 00:02:31.113 --> 00:02:33.280 align:middle line:84% So there was a couple of books along with it I read. 00:02:33.280 --> 00:02:35.072 align:middle line:84% One of them was really intimate that my mom 00:02:35.072 --> 00:02:36.580 align:middle line:84% sent me was Convicted in the Womb 00:02:36.580 --> 00:02:39.510 align:middle line:84% by Carl Upchurch, who's passed away now. 00:02:39.510 --> 00:02:42.690 align:middle line:84% But it was one of those first books from someone 00:02:42.690 --> 00:02:45.870 align:middle line:84% who had been on the inside and who had changed his life, 00:02:45.870 --> 00:02:47.640 align:middle line:84% and went on to get a master's degree 00:02:47.640 --> 00:02:50.790 align:middle line:84% and started the first gang summit in Kansas City, 00:02:50.790 --> 00:02:54.480 align:middle line:84% I think, in the 80s, in the late 80s. 00:02:54.480 --> 00:02:57.530 align:middle line:84% So it made an impact on me and I'm glad, so that's good. 00:02:57.530 --> 00:03:01.410 align:middle line:84% So to me, that was really important, that one little step 00:03:01.410 --> 00:03:02.820 align:middle line:90% saying, hey, you can do this. 00:03:02.820 --> 00:03:07.330 align:middle line:90% 00:03:07.330 --> 00:03:08.497 align:middle line:90% Any more questions? 00:03:08.497 --> 00:03:15.660 align:middle line:90% 00:03:15.660 --> 00:03:19.410 align:middle line:84% Do you think writing helps society acclimate more to you? 00:03:19.410 --> 00:03:22.500 align:middle line:84% Or do you think your writing helped you acclimate back 00:03:22.500 --> 00:03:24.010 align:middle line:90% into society? 00:03:24.010 --> 00:03:25.830 align:middle line:84% I think the latter in what you said. 00:03:25.830 --> 00:03:27.810 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:03:27.810 --> 00:03:28.560 align:middle line:90% I don't know. 00:03:28.560 --> 00:03:33.180 align:middle line:84% I mean, All I can know about it, I think it helped me adjust, 00:03:33.180 --> 00:03:35.310 align:middle line:84% and it helped me deal with coming 00:03:35.310 --> 00:03:40.410 align:middle line:84% back and sort of trying to be acclimated and reintegrate. 00:03:40.410 --> 00:03:42.790 align:middle line:84% Because I had a lot of questions. 00:03:42.790 --> 00:03:45.900 align:middle line:84% I don't know if I was necessarily angry, but probably 00:03:45.900 --> 00:03:49.170 align:middle line:84% angry at myself for putting myself in that situation. 00:03:49.170 --> 00:03:51.930 align:middle line:84% But also, it helped me not to feel sorry for myself. 00:03:51.930 --> 00:03:53.580 align:middle line:84% And it helped me not to think that I 00:03:53.580 --> 00:03:55.358 align:middle line:84% was so different from everyone else 00:03:55.358 --> 00:03:57.150 align:middle line:84% that I couldn't do the things that I needed 00:03:57.150 --> 00:04:02.400 align:middle line:84% to do to make a positive impact, and be successful in whatever 00:04:02.400 --> 00:04:03.390 align:middle line:90% I chose to do. 00:04:03.390 --> 00:04:06.000 align:middle line:84% And it's something about writing. 00:04:06.000 --> 00:04:08.070 align:middle line:90% I had tried so many things. 00:04:08.070 --> 00:04:10.530 align:middle line:84% Like, I've been many things in my life. 00:04:10.530 --> 00:04:12.930 align:middle line:90% And so I wasn't a one-off. 00:04:12.930 --> 00:04:15.300 align:middle line:90% 00:04:15.300 --> 00:04:16.800 align:middle line:84% You know what I mean by that, right? 00:04:16.800 --> 00:04:18.068 align:middle line:90% Like, I didn't do one thing. 00:04:18.068 --> 00:04:19.110 align:middle line:90% I go, oh, I went to jail. 00:04:19.110 --> 00:04:19.800 align:middle line:90% I'm just so sorry. 00:04:19.800 --> 00:04:21.390 align:middle line:84% I made my life a lifelong commitment. 00:04:21.390 --> 00:04:24.930 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:04:24.930 --> 00:04:25.695 align:middle line:90% I'm serious. 00:04:25.695 --> 00:04:30.534 align:middle line:90% 00:04:30.534 --> 00:04:32.480 align:middle line:84% It's a lifelong commitment to doing. 00:04:32.480 --> 00:04:33.390 align:middle line:90% I'm doing stuff. 00:04:33.390 --> 00:04:41.570 align:middle line:84% And so writing was the only thing that made me feel whole, 00:04:41.570 --> 00:04:45.903 align:middle line:84% and it was the only thing that I felt-- 00:04:45.903 --> 00:04:47.070 align:middle line:90% yeah, it was the only thing. 00:04:47.070 --> 00:04:48.528 align:middle line:84% And how how was I going to make it? 00:04:48.528 --> 00:04:50.030 align:middle line:84% How was it going to support myself? 00:04:50.030 --> 00:04:51.155 align:middle line:90% How was I going to make it? 00:04:51.155 --> 00:04:52.575 align:middle line:90% I had no clue. 00:04:52.575 --> 00:04:53.075 align:middle line:90% None. 00:04:53.075 --> 00:04:56.750 align:middle line:90% 00:04:56.750 --> 00:04:59.450 align:middle line:84% But I just knew it made me feel good inside, and made me happy. 00:04:59.450 --> 00:05:02.100 align:middle line:84% It made me feel like I was doing something. 00:05:02.100 --> 00:05:04.880 align:middle line:84% So I decided, let me do that versus going out 00:05:04.880 --> 00:05:07.430 align:middle line:84% here, and hustling, and selling, like one of the old, South 00:05:07.430 --> 00:05:12.980 align:middle line:84% American, Bahamas and trying to play Miami Vice and all 00:05:12.980 --> 00:05:15.320 align:middle line:90% of those things. 00:05:15.320 --> 00:05:19.300 align:middle line:84% I'm just kind of being serious, like it's not me. 00:05:19.300 --> 00:05:20.330 align:middle line:90% Let me try that. 00:05:20.330 --> 00:05:25.103 align:middle line:84% I could remember when I was-- remember 00:05:25.103 --> 00:05:26.270 align:middle line:90% when I was going to Chicago. 00:05:26.270 --> 00:05:27.710 align:middle line:84% I was going to get my MFA, they were like, what 00:05:27.710 --> 00:05:29.002 align:middle line:90% were you going to do with that? 00:05:29.002 --> 00:05:31.580 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:05:31.580 --> 00:05:33.312 align:middle line:90% I don't know. 00:05:33.312 --> 00:05:34.520 align:middle line:90% We're going to figure it out. 00:05:34.520 --> 00:05:37.520 align:middle line:90% 00:05:37.520 --> 00:05:39.770 align:middle line:84% But I just knew that, let me try something 00:05:39.770 --> 00:05:41.240 align:middle line:84% that makes me feel good and makes 00:05:41.240 --> 00:05:44.300 align:middle line:84% me feel like I'm making an impact some kind of way. 00:05:44.300 --> 00:05:45.690 align:middle line:90% How about that? 00:05:45.690 --> 00:05:49.400 align:middle line:84% And so, getting back to your original point, 00:05:49.400 --> 00:05:50.750 align:middle line:90% that's what writing did for me. 00:05:50.750 --> 00:05:55.190 align:middle line:84% It gave me that confidence to step outside and just take 00:05:55.190 --> 00:05:56.540 align:middle line:90% that leap. 00:05:56.540 --> 00:05:58.700 align:middle line:90% Because I always had the words. 00:05:58.700 --> 00:06:03.050 align:middle line:84% I don't know if I can change everyone's mind, right? 00:06:03.050 --> 00:06:04.220 align:middle line:90% But I could write about it. 00:06:04.220 --> 00:06:07.075 align:middle line:84% I could talk about it, and I can put it out there 00:06:07.075 --> 00:06:09.410 align:middle line:84% in the universe and at some point 00:06:09.410 --> 00:06:12.260 align:middle line:84% maybe someone would come to it in their own space 00:06:12.260 --> 00:06:13.910 align:middle line:90% and their own time. 00:06:13.910 --> 00:06:17.500 align:middle line:84% But right-- but I'm fighting for my life too. 00:06:17.500 --> 00:06:18.260 align:middle line:90% And I still am. 00:06:18.260 --> 00:06:25.260 align:middle line:90% 00:06:25.260 --> 00:06:28.420 align:middle line:84% I just want to thank you for being here tonight. 00:06:28.420 --> 00:06:31.590 align:middle line:84% I taught for six years in a maximum security prison 00:06:31.590 --> 00:06:33.780 align:middle line:90% for men in upstate New York. 00:06:33.780 --> 00:06:35.540 align:middle line:90% I taught poetry. 00:06:35.540 --> 00:06:36.780 align:middle line:90% Which one? 00:06:36.780 --> 00:06:38.490 align:middle line:90% Green Haven. 00:06:38.490 --> 00:06:39.900 align:middle line:90% I stood at Mount McGregor. 00:06:39.900 --> 00:06:44.760 align:middle line:84% Yeah I taught at the same time that Quincy Troupe, and Janine 00:06:44.760 --> 00:06:47.430 align:middle line:84% Pommy Vega were teaching in prisons, 00:06:47.430 --> 00:06:52.290 align:middle line:84% so we had a big reading, where we read our students' work. 00:06:52.290 --> 00:06:57.810 align:middle line:84% And it was so important for my education to do this, 00:06:57.810 --> 00:06:59.910 align:middle line:84% going in there every week for six years. 00:06:59.910 --> 00:07:02.390 align:middle line:84% But I just want to thank you for being here. 00:07:02.390 --> 00:07:03.340 align:middle line:90% Oh thanks so much. 00:07:03.340 --> 00:07:04.905 align:middle line:90% Thanks for saying that. 00:07:04.905 --> 00:07:08.300 align:middle line:90% [APPLAUSE] 00:07:08.300 --> 00:07:16.080 align:middle line:90% 00:07:16.080 --> 00:07:19.830 align:middle line:84% I imagine you hear sometimes from inmates 00:07:19.830 --> 00:07:24.253 align:middle line:84% and I'm wondering if when that happens, 00:07:24.253 --> 00:07:25.545 align:middle line:90% does it lead to correspondence? 00:07:25.545 --> 00:07:27.360 align:middle line:90% Do you have that kind of time? 00:07:27.360 --> 00:07:31.560 align:middle line:84% Or are your books in the prisons, is what I meant. 00:07:31.560 --> 00:07:32.520 align:middle line:90% Well yeah, they are. 00:07:32.520 --> 00:07:39.830 align:middle line:84% I send-- Where I go, I get a lot of mail, a lot of mail. 00:07:39.830 --> 00:07:43.560 align:middle line:84% And I write back with them as much as I can. 00:07:43.560 --> 00:07:44.737 align:middle line:90% I don't write-- 00:07:44.737 --> 00:07:46.320 align:middle line:84% I used to try to write everybody back, 00:07:46.320 --> 00:07:48.390 align:middle line:90% but I can't say I do that. 00:07:48.390 --> 00:07:51.270 align:middle line:84% But I do have some that I write more than others. 00:07:51.270 --> 00:07:52.770 align:middle line:90% And I've sort of been-- 00:07:52.770 --> 00:07:55.380 align:middle line:84% just getting back to your point, Mount McGregor. 00:07:55.380 --> 00:07:57.570 align:middle line:84% There was a workshop up there started 00:07:57.570 --> 00:08:00.780 align:middle line:84% by this young Mormon named Cara Benson, 00:08:00.780 --> 00:08:04.270 align:middle line:84% and she invited me when I was in Albany to come work. 00:08:04.270 --> 00:08:06.730 align:middle line:84% We did a reading together in Albany 00:08:06.730 --> 00:08:08.220 align:middle line:84% at the A, or something like that. 00:08:08.220 --> 00:08:10.260 align:middle line:90% Forget what it is. 00:08:10.260 --> 00:08:14.380 align:middle line:84% And that group of guys, so I used 00:08:14.380 --> 00:08:15.880 align:middle line:84% to go there like maybe once a month. 00:08:15.880 --> 00:08:16.650 align:middle line:90% They used to have a speak out. 00:08:16.650 --> 00:08:18.128 align:middle line:84% So it was a poetry reading, so they 00:08:18.128 --> 00:08:19.920 align:middle line:84% invited me to come to their poetry reading. 00:08:19.920 --> 00:08:21.990 align:middle line:84% And I read, and I was really impressed, 00:08:21.990 --> 00:08:23.910 align:middle line:84% and so I would come to their workshops. 00:08:23.910 --> 00:08:26.940 align:middle line:84% And I did that for a little while 00:08:26.940 --> 00:08:32.070 align:middle line:84% and I became really invested in probably about six 00:08:32.070 --> 00:08:35.730 align:middle line:84% or seven guys that was in that group. 00:08:35.730 --> 00:08:40.799 align:middle line:84% And most of them have gotten out now, I remained close with them 00:08:40.799 --> 00:08:43.140 align:middle line:84% and they've all-- most of them have gotten out. 00:08:43.140 --> 00:08:45.330 align:middle line:84% And what's so interesting about their group, 00:08:45.330 --> 00:08:47.100 align:middle line:84% it was a poetry group that sort of liked 00:08:47.100 --> 00:08:50.520 align:middle line:84% to be an MFA program, or getting something to go back, 00:08:50.520 --> 00:08:51.750 align:middle line:90% because they were serious. 00:08:51.750 --> 00:08:55.920 align:middle line:84% They were really serious writers, and they still are. 00:08:55.920 --> 00:08:59.460 align:middle line:84% But they all went and left, and became 00:08:59.460 --> 00:09:02.250 align:middle line:84% these interesting leaders in different ways. 00:09:02.250 --> 00:09:05.860 align:middle line:84% And it's just amazing to sort of see that progress. 00:09:05.860 --> 00:09:10.050 align:middle line:84% So they-- that group of guys has been sort of my inspiration, 00:09:10.050 --> 00:09:12.150 align:middle line:84% but from time to time I go other places. 00:09:12.150 --> 00:09:16.290 align:middle line:84% I do get letters and stuff, so I do write back when I can. 00:09:16.290 --> 00:09:19.500 align:middle line:84% But when you said that, that just brought that back. 00:09:19.500 --> 00:09:21.940 align:middle line:84% That people like, what does poetry do? 00:09:21.940 --> 00:09:23.710 align:middle line:90% Especially when you're inside? 00:09:23.710 --> 00:09:25.560 align:middle line:84% Well it gave them a sort of confidence 00:09:25.560 --> 00:09:27.015 align:middle line:90% and a sort of hope to go out. 00:09:27.015 --> 00:09:28.890 align:middle line:84% And they-- I mean, they got master's degrees. 00:09:28.890 --> 00:09:30.780 align:middle line:84% They finished some Ph.D programs, 00:09:30.780 --> 00:09:35.040 align:middle line:84% some of them running businesses, and it's just interesting. 00:09:35.040 --> 00:09:38.560 align:middle line:84% And all of them have gotten out and done well. 00:09:38.560 --> 00:09:40.390 align:middle line:84% So it's something about that little bump, 00:09:40.390 --> 00:09:45.690 align:middle line:84% and I don't know what it is, man, but they've all done well. 00:09:45.690 --> 00:09:50.000 align:middle line:90%