WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.580 align:middle line:84% I just want to ask a quick question. 00:00:02.580 --> 00:00:05.460 align:middle line:84% How long did it take you to write the novel? 00:00:05.460 --> 00:00:06.880 align:middle line:90% Oh, wow. 00:00:06.880 --> 00:00:11.310 align:middle line:84% So the book took 13 years probably. 00:00:11.310 --> 00:00:13.470 align:middle line:84% But I didn't realize I was really writing a book. 00:00:13.470 --> 00:00:15.570 align:middle line:90% I just was writing essays. 00:00:15.570 --> 00:00:17.880 align:middle line:90% Do I need to use the mic? 00:00:17.880 --> 00:00:21.480 align:middle line:84% So I just was writing essays, because I love them. 00:00:21.480 --> 00:00:25.410 align:middle line:84% And then I had some space and time to think. 00:00:25.410 --> 00:00:28.530 align:middle line:84% And I just started putting what I'd written together 00:00:28.530 --> 00:00:31.620 align:middle line:84% and then said, oh, maybe this is a book. 00:00:31.620 --> 00:00:36.360 align:middle line:84% There are similar themes of family, power, subversion, 00:00:36.360 --> 00:00:36.945 align:middle line:90% humor-- 00:00:36.945 --> 00:00:38.445 align:middle line:84% although, that one's not that funny. 00:00:38.445 --> 00:00:41.430 align:middle line:90% 00:00:41.430 --> 00:00:45.330 align:middle line:84% Although, there are strange little comic moments, I think. 00:00:45.330 --> 00:00:49.090 align:middle line:84% But yeah, so I think the first essay was 2003. 00:00:49.090 --> 00:00:53.423 align:middle line:84% And I think the last one was 2016. 00:00:53.423 --> 00:00:54.840 align:middle line:84% I was writing other stuff between. 00:00:54.840 --> 00:00:57.360 align:middle line:90% 00:00:57.360 --> 00:00:58.270 align:middle line:90% But it takes a while. 00:00:58.270 --> 00:00:59.562 align:middle line:90% It takes what it takes, though. 00:00:59.562 --> 00:01:01.830 align:middle line:90% Are you writing too? 00:01:01.830 --> 00:01:02.520 align:middle line:90% No? 00:01:02.520 --> 00:01:04.830 align:middle line:84% But it'll take whatever it takes. 00:01:04.830 --> 00:01:07.080 align:middle line:90% And don't rush it, right? 00:01:07.080 --> 00:01:10.020 align:middle line:84% You've got plenty of Real Housewives of Beverly Hills 00:01:10.020 --> 00:01:12.450 align:middle line:90% or New Jersey, Atlanta-- 00:01:12.450 --> 00:01:15.570 align:middle line:84% Oh, the Atlanta girls are so good. 00:01:15.570 --> 00:01:17.730 align:middle line:84% Where's the Real Housewives of Tucson, though? 00:01:17.730 --> 00:01:19.870 align:middle line:90% We need that. 00:01:19.870 --> 00:01:20.950 align:middle line:90% Right? 00:01:20.950 --> 00:01:23.230 align:middle line:84% Ander, would you be a real housewife from Tucson? 00:01:23.230 --> 00:01:23.730 align:middle line:90% Happily. 00:01:23.730 --> 00:01:24.568 align:middle line:90% Happily. 00:01:24.568 --> 00:01:25.110 align:middle line:90% That's great. 00:01:25.110 --> 00:01:35.860 align:middle line:90% 00:01:35.860 --> 00:01:37.300 align:middle line:84% I was wondering if you could speak 00:01:37.300 --> 00:01:46.300 align:middle line:84% to how or if the poetic mind is different than the prose mind 00:01:46.300 --> 00:01:49.090 align:middle line:90% when it comes to your own work. 00:01:49.090 --> 00:01:52.390 align:middle line:84% Is there a division or is there a lot of overlap? 00:01:52.390 --> 00:01:58.480 align:middle line:84% Yeah, so I definitely think you use-- 00:01:58.480 --> 00:02:01.750 align:middle line:84% I think differently in a poem than I do in an essay. 00:02:01.750 --> 00:02:02.800 align:middle line:90% And that's true. 00:02:02.800 --> 00:02:07.310 align:middle line:84% So at the end of a line, you know that you've got to change. 00:02:07.310 --> 00:02:11.605 align:middle line:84% You've got to transform or it's got to do something. 00:02:11.605 --> 00:02:12.730 align:middle line:90% It's got to turn on itself. 00:02:12.730 --> 00:02:14.440 align:middle line:90% There's a rudder moment, right? 00:02:14.440 --> 00:02:16.300 align:middle line:84% And in an essay, you can give yourself 00:02:16.300 --> 00:02:18.290 align:middle line:90% whole paragraphs to do that. 00:02:18.290 --> 00:02:22.450 align:middle line:84% You can really set something up and tease stuff out. 00:02:22.450 --> 00:02:27.370 align:middle line:84% So when I was writing that essay that I just read, 00:02:27.370 --> 00:02:31.450 align:middle line:84% it was fun to write it sentence by sentence 00:02:31.450 --> 00:02:35.650 align:middle line:84% and sort of like poetry, but allowing myself more room 00:02:35.650 --> 00:02:37.270 align:middle line:90% to think about something. 00:02:37.270 --> 00:02:42.980 align:middle line:90% 00:02:42.980 --> 00:02:44.300 align:middle line:90% They're similar, though. 00:02:44.300 --> 00:02:46.850 align:middle line:84% In a poem, you stumble on a metaphor. 00:02:46.850 --> 00:02:49.190 align:middle line:84% You're like, oh, let me pull on the threads of this 00:02:49.190 --> 00:02:51.800 align:middle line:90% and see what else I can get. 00:02:51.800 --> 00:02:53.000 align:middle line:90% And that's true about-- 00:02:53.000 --> 00:02:55.198 align:middle line:84% when I stumbled on naming, I didn't 00:02:55.198 --> 00:02:56.240 align:middle line:90% know what that was about. 00:02:56.240 --> 00:02:57.920 align:middle line:90% And I was like, wow, this is-- 00:02:57.920 --> 00:02:59.090 align:middle line:90% I'm fascinating myself. 00:02:59.090 --> 00:03:00.830 align:middle line:84% I'm teaching myself something here. 00:03:00.830 --> 00:03:02.340 align:middle line:90% What is that about? 00:03:02.340 --> 00:03:05.255 align:middle line:84% So that's similar modes, I think-- ask and question. 00:03:05.255 --> 00:03:14.240 align:middle line:90% 00:03:14.240 --> 00:03:16.880 align:middle line:84% I wanted to-- we talked a little bit about this in my class 00:03:16.880 --> 00:03:21.050 align:middle line:84% earlier, but to ask you to talk a little bit more about what 00:03:21.050 --> 00:03:22.610 align:middle line:90% the-- 00:03:22.610 --> 00:03:24.740 align:middle line:84% they're not exactly even comic moments. 00:03:24.740 --> 00:03:25.805 align:middle line:90% I mean, some of them are. 00:03:25.805 --> 00:03:27.680 align:middle line:84% The Adventures in the Old Lady Land, I think, 00:03:27.680 --> 00:03:31.310 align:middle line:84% is just a delightful essay with a lot of really comic moments. 00:03:31.310 --> 00:03:33.170 align:middle line:84% But there's two moments in that essay-- 00:03:33.170 --> 00:03:35.630 align:middle line:84% the one that we talked about a little bit in my class-- 00:03:35.630 --> 00:03:38.900 align:middle line:84% his biggest regret was that his uncle had never 00:03:38.900 --> 00:03:42.380 align:middle line:84% molested him, which is just a horrifying thought. 00:03:42.380 --> 00:03:45.290 align:middle line:90% But it's also a funny one. 00:03:45.290 --> 00:03:48.950 align:middle line:84% And then there's the other one where your mom says, oh, that 00:03:48.950 --> 00:03:50.400 align:middle line:90% explains-- 00:03:50.400 --> 00:03:52.010 align:middle line:90% And I have a hard time not-- 00:03:52.010 --> 00:03:53.990 align:middle line:84% I was the only one who really laughed there. 00:03:53.990 --> 00:03:56.480 align:middle line:84% But it's not exactly-- it's like, ha-ha. 00:03:56.480 --> 00:03:59.180 align:middle line:84% But this sort of awfulness almost 00:03:59.180 --> 00:04:02.852 align:middle line:84% has to come out in some kind of utterance. 00:04:02.852 --> 00:04:04.310 align:middle line:84% And I'm wondering if you could talk 00:04:04.310 --> 00:04:10.395 align:middle line:84% a little bit about, I guess, the use of humor or the comic-- 00:04:10.395 --> 00:04:11.270 align:middle line:90% I'm not exactly sure. 00:04:11.270 --> 00:04:14.090 align:middle line:90% But it's not funny, but it is. 00:04:14.090 --> 00:04:16.940 align:middle line:84% It felt better for me to laugh in that moment. 00:04:16.940 --> 00:04:20.450 align:middle line:84% I think of those moments as really funny too, honestly. 00:04:20.450 --> 00:04:22.490 align:middle line:84% I mean, he's twirling his pasta with his fork 00:04:22.490 --> 00:04:23.960 align:middle line:90% saying this terrible thing. 00:04:23.960 --> 00:04:27.850 align:middle line:90% 00:04:27.850 --> 00:04:31.600 align:middle line:84% And, what, I'm supposed to feel bad that your uncle didn't 00:04:31.600 --> 00:04:34.660 align:middle line:90% molest you? 00:04:34.660 --> 00:04:37.130 align:middle line:90% OK, eat your pasta. 00:04:37.130 --> 00:04:37.630 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:04:37.630 --> 00:04:39.910 align:middle line:90% Drink your juice, Shelby. 00:04:39.910 --> 00:04:40.900 align:middle line:90% It's going to be OK. 00:04:40.900 --> 00:04:46.090 align:middle line:84% But it's just-- so I love the darkly comic. 00:04:46.090 --> 00:04:50.000 align:middle line:84% Because I think it really kind of-- 00:04:50.000 --> 00:04:52.090 align:middle line:90% it's absurd. 00:04:52.090 --> 00:04:53.740 align:middle line:90% And it's ridiculous. 00:04:53.740 --> 00:04:59.530 align:middle line:84% Like in Harry Potter, if you can laugh at the terrible thing, 00:04:59.530 --> 00:05:04.900 align:middle line:84% that it also reveals something about its own terror. 00:05:04.900 --> 00:05:09.010 align:middle line:90% Then it has less power. 00:05:09.010 --> 00:05:13.450 align:middle line:84% So I think of it as sort of subversive. 00:05:13.450 --> 00:05:17.270 align:middle line:84% And then just providing tension as a sort of craft moment, 00:05:17.270 --> 00:05:19.737 align:middle line:90% like here's something terrible. 00:05:19.737 --> 00:05:21.320 align:middle line:84% But there's still comedy in the world. 00:05:21.320 --> 00:05:23.890 align:middle line:84% There's still something beautiful. 00:05:23.890 --> 00:05:30.760 align:middle line:84% I was really conscious in that essay too of music, 00:05:30.760 --> 00:05:35.110 align:middle line:84% of making something as beautiful as I could, 00:05:35.110 --> 00:05:38.500 align:middle line:84% although flattening tone sometimes. 00:05:38.500 --> 00:05:41.983 align:middle line:84% Because, god, isn't that what beauty does? 00:05:41.983 --> 00:05:43.150 align:middle line:90% Isn't that what comedy does? 00:05:43.150 --> 00:05:46.690 align:middle line:84% Sort of save us from the terrible awful things 00:05:46.690 --> 00:05:48.970 align:middle line:90% of our lives. 00:05:48.970 --> 00:05:52.180 align:middle line:84% And that's how I live my life anyway too. 00:05:52.180 --> 00:05:56.350 align:middle line:84% I'm always laughing at the wrong thing. 00:05:56.350 --> 00:05:59.440 align:middle line:84% And like my mom-- like, oh, that explains a lot about you. 00:05:59.440 --> 00:06:01.325 align:middle line:90% Oh, really, mother? 00:06:01.325 --> 00:06:02.200 align:middle line:90% What does it explain? 00:06:02.200 --> 00:06:06.030 align:middle line:90% 00:06:06.030 --> 00:06:07.860 align:middle line:90% And she really did think-- 00:06:07.860 --> 00:06:11.513 align:middle line:84% she had a whole theory worked out in seconds. 00:06:11.513 --> 00:06:12.930 align:middle line:84% Like, mom, you can't do fractions, 00:06:12.930 --> 00:06:13.972 align:middle line:90% but you can do that math? 00:06:13.972 --> 00:06:15.900 align:middle line:90% That's amazing. 00:06:15.900 --> 00:06:17.550 align:middle line:90% It's weird. 00:06:17.550 --> 00:06:23.600 align:middle line:84% Anyway, I hope that helps or it answers. 00:06:23.600 --> 00:06:27.470 align:middle line:84% But comedy is really just subversion of what you expect, 00:06:27.470 --> 00:06:30.020 align:middle line:90% right? 00:06:30.020 --> 00:06:32.030 align:middle line:84% And certainly, I think all of that 00:06:32.030 --> 00:06:34.250 align:middle line:84% was not what I expected from him too. 00:06:34.250 --> 00:06:35.960 align:middle line:90% Yeah? 00:06:35.960 --> 00:06:39.016 align:middle line:90% [INAUDIBLE] 00:06:39.016 --> 00:06:43.930 align:middle line:90% 00:06:43.930 --> 00:06:46.450 align:middle line:84% You brought up just now that you thought a lot 00:06:46.450 --> 00:06:49.330 align:middle line:84% about the musicality of that piece specifically. 00:06:49.330 --> 00:06:52.180 align:middle line:84% Can you speak a little bit to your drafting process? 00:06:52.180 --> 00:06:53.740 align:middle line:90% Well, that one was weird. 00:06:53.740 --> 00:06:59.740 align:middle line:84% [AUDIO OUT] mostly-- so in the narrative, I'm driving here-- 00:06:59.740 --> 00:07:01.570 align:middle line:84% I didn't write that sentence by sentence. 00:07:01.570 --> 00:07:08.530 align:middle line:84% But most of the statement-driven sections, I wrote a sentence. 00:07:08.530 --> 00:07:09.550 align:middle line:90% And then I stopped. 00:07:09.550 --> 00:07:12.310 align:middle line:90% And I left the room. 00:07:12.310 --> 00:07:16.360 align:middle line:90% And then I came back to it. 00:07:16.360 --> 00:07:19.570 align:middle line:84% And that's just what the piece needed. 00:07:19.570 --> 00:07:23.550 align:middle line:90% 00:07:23.550 --> 00:07:25.300 align:middle line:84% You can only look at something for so long 00:07:25.300 --> 00:07:27.010 align:middle line:84% and contend with it, really, before you 00:07:27.010 --> 00:07:30.670 align:middle line:90% get a little exhausted. 00:07:30.670 --> 00:07:35.750 align:middle line:84% And it really did feel like I was contending a little bit 00:07:35.750 --> 00:07:38.270 align:middle line:84% with him-- a little bit with myself-- 00:07:38.270 --> 00:07:42.980 align:middle line:90% and I don't know-- 00:07:42.980 --> 00:07:47.000 align:middle line:84% that falling in love with wanting to hurt yourself 00:07:47.000 --> 00:07:51.530 align:middle line:84% was really fucked up and also fascinating. 00:07:51.530 --> 00:07:54.560 align:middle line:84% I didn't know what was happening to me. 00:07:54.560 --> 00:07:55.690 align:middle line:90% You know what I mean? 00:07:55.690 --> 00:07:59.930 align:middle line:84% And I thank god I'm a writer, because I 00:07:59.930 --> 00:08:02.870 align:middle line:84% don't know what I would have done 00:08:02.870 --> 00:08:06.230 align:middle line:90% if I had let that live in me. 00:08:06.230 --> 00:08:07.790 align:middle line:90% Because it wasn't me. 00:08:07.790 --> 00:08:11.150 align:middle line:84% It was completely outside of myself. 00:08:11.150 --> 00:08:13.970 align:middle line:84% And thankfully, I came to Tucson and rediscovered joy. 00:08:13.970 --> 00:08:17.150 align:middle line:90% 00:08:17.150 --> 00:08:21.500 align:middle line:84% One more question and then I think we'll-- 00:08:21.500 --> 00:08:23.583 align:middle line:84% How old were you when that happened? 00:08:23.583 --> 00:08:24.083 align:middle line:90% Oh my god. 00:08:24.083 --> 00:08:26.585 align:middle line:90% [AUDIO OUT] So I was-- 00:08:26.585 --> 00:08:28.940 align:middle line:90% it was 2008. 00:08:28.940 --> 00:08:29.870 align:middle line:90% I'm bad at math. 00:08:29.870 --> 00:08:30.968 align:middle line:90% Nine years ago. 00:08:30.968 --> 00:08:31.760 align:middle line:90% Yeah, it was like-- 00:08:31.760 --> 00:08:33.169 align:middle line:90% Ten years ago. 00:08:33.169 --> 00:08:33.690 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:08:33.690 --> 00:08:34.190 align:middle line:90% Oh, wait. 00:08:34.190 --> 00:08:37.230 align:middle line:90% No, it was-- 00:08:37.230 --> 00:08:38.490 align:middle line:90% I just moved-- 00:08:38.490 --> 00:08:39.510 align:middle line:90% I'm throwing the thing. 00:08:39.510 --> 00:08:42.240 align:middle line:90% It was 2006 when it happened-- 00:08:42.240 --> 00:08:44.190 align:middle line:90% 2007. 00:08:44.190 --> 00:08:45.740 align:middle line:90% Yeah.