WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:00.790 align:middle line:90% OK. 00:00:00.790 --> 00:00:04.170 align:middle line:84% Well, I'm going to read some poems 00:00:04.170 --> 00:00:12.970 align:middle line:84% from I Was Blown Back, which is a book that came out in 2005 00:00:12.970 --> 00:00:15.640 align:middle line:90% from Singing Horse Press. 00:00:15.640 --> 00:00:21.230 align:middle line:90% And it's got two main sections. 00:00:21.230 --> 00:00:29.680 align:middle line:84% One is a series of untitled poems and the second section 00:00:29.680 --> 00:00:34.390 align:middle line:90% is a long poem called-- 00:00:34.390 --> 00:00:37.160 align:middle line:90% 00:00:37.160 --> 00:00:43.880 align:middle line:84% it's called "Ask A Difficult Question"-- that's right-- 00:00:43.880 --> 00:00:46.222 align:middle line:90% "Variations on Rumi." 00:00:46.222 --> 00:00:47.930 align:middle line:84% And I'll say more about that in a minute. 00:00:47.930 --> 00:00:53.110 align:middle line:84% I'm going to start with the last several poems 00:00:53.110 --> 00:00:56.430 align:middle line:90% in the first series. 00:00:56.430 --> 00:01:02.150 align:middle line:84% I would say, probably, these poems 00:01:02.150 --> 00:01:09.770 align:middle line:84% are written under the influence of Paul Celan, a really intense 00:01:09.770 --> 00:01:12.240 align:middle line:84% reading encounter with the poetry of Paul Celan. 00:01:12.240 --> 00:01:15.570 align:middle line:84% You know Paul Celan's poetry or who he is? 00:01:15.570 --> 00:01:17.195 align:middle line:90% Yes? 00:01:17.195 --> 00:01:21.234 align:middle line:84% So that probably accounts for a lot of what 00:01:21.234 --> 00:01:23.240 align:middle line:90% these poems are thinking about. 00:01:23.240 --> 00:01:45.064 align:middle line:90% 00:01:45.064 --> 00:01:48.536 align:middle line:90% [INAUDIBLE] 00:01:48.536 --> 00:01:54.984 align:middle line:90% 00:01:54.984 --> 00:01:57.650 align:middle line:84% Excuse me, Norman, could you adjust the microphone? 00:01:57.650 --> 00:01:58.150 align:middle line:90% Yes. 00:01:58.150 --> 00:01:59.415 align:middle line:90% Sorry about that, yes. 00:01:59.415 --> 00:02:01.576 align:middle line:84% Now, if I speak like this, it's good, right? 00:02:01.576 --> 00:02:10.340 align:middle line:90% 00:02:10.340 --> 00:02:17.680 align:middle line:84% "Dreaming is the least part of prophecy. 00:02:17.680 --> 00:02:22.280 align:middle line:84% And prophecy is revelations, never 00:02:22.280 --> 00:02:29.000 align:middle line:84% shadow, which is why we see the back, the curling 00:02:29.000 --> 00:02:34.940 align:middle line:84% clouds of vagueness, not the crisp anti-rooms 00:02:34.940 --> 00:02:38.030 align:middle line:84% in which throne-like furniture is 00:02:38.030 --> 00:02:39.830 align:middle line:90% stacked before the sideboard. 00:02:39.830 --> 00:02:43.480 align:middle line:90% 00:02:43.480 --> 00:02:49.420 align:middle line:84% Waking to face the weighty days, we 00:02:49.420 --> 00:02:54.730 align:middle line:84% carry on bravely within our structures, 00:02:54.730 --> 00:02:59.476 align:middle line:90% forget entirely the contents-- 00:02:59.476 --> 00:03:06.170 align:middle line:84% the clues, the notes, the tones, the sheet music 00:03:06.170 --> 00:03:11.360 align:middle line:84% despite the hints embedded in words, syllables, phrases, 00:03:11.360 --> 00:03:19.600 align:middle line:84% metaphors in the scene heard, remembered, and despised. 00:03:19.600 --> 00:03:23.010 align:middle line:90% 00:03:23.010 --> 00:03:34.260 align:middle line:84% Thus, we stir, stride on, stumble, trip, fall, and rise. 00:03:34.260 --> 00:03:39.900 align:middle line:90% 00:03:39.900 --> 00:03:41.310 align:middle line:90% I can't help it anymore. 00:03:41.310 --> 00:03:44.200 align:middle line:90% 00:03:44.200 --> 00:03:48.895 align:middle line:84% My horses deliberately canter across the road. 00:03:48.895 --> 00:03:51.430 align:middle line:90% 00:03:51.430 --> 00:03:53.230 align:middle line:90% My armies march. 00:03:53.230 --> 00:03:57.370 align:middle line:84% My fishes swim as I wait here for the bus. 00:03:57.370 --> 00:03:59.880 align:middle line:90% 00:03:59.880 --> 00:04:06.930 align:middle line:84% Everything's hollow, is smoke, glows like skin, 00:04:06.930 --> 00:04:20.000 align:middle line:84% like coal, or milk, like silk, like gloves, sex, or gunfire 00:04:20.000 --> 00:04:25.810 align:middle line:84% towed along behind my heavier theories. 00:04:25.810 --> 00:04:35.300 align:middle line:90% 00:04:35.300 --> 00:04:41.620 align:middle line:84% I've lined up my things by the names 00:04:41.620 --> 00:04:46.560 align:middle line:84% of what I've got, against which I am humbled to gape. 00:04:46.560 --> 00:04:49.330 align:middle line:90% 00:04:49.330 --> 00:04:52.990 align:middle line:84% I can say I've walked this stony path one 00:04:52.990 --> 00:05:00.370 align:middle line:84% time, conversed with the worn things of my life. 00:05:00.370 --> 00:05:08.200 align:middle line:84% Not one accurately named, not one emerging 00:05:08.200 --> 00:05:11.590 align:middle line:90% from the heart of the sky. 00:05:11.590 --> 00:05:20.460 align:middle line:84% My identity absorbed them all or they all hid. 00:05:20.460 --> 00:05:30.240 align:middle line:84% My desire appears as a pillar of salt. 00:05:30.240 --> 00:05:36.030 align:middle line:84% Out from the narrowness of my thinking 00:05:36.030 --> 00:05:40.440 align:middle line:84% I break onto an unsuspecting world. 00:05:40.440 --> 00:05:43.650 align:middle line:90% 00:05:43.650 --> 00:05:50.160 align:middle line:84% He who crosses God intentionally, as someone 00:05:50.160 --> 00:05:56.851 align:middle line:84% crosses a street against the light, is stoned to death 00:05:56.851 --> 00:06:04.490 align:middle line:84% or swallowed whole by the yawning earth, which happens 00:06:04.490 --> 00:06:12.490 align:middle line:84% every time something falls after it has 00:06:12.490 --> 00:06:16.260 align:middle line:90% been misplaced or forgotten. 00:06:16.260 --> 00:06:23.760 align:middle line:84% Gently dropped, it falls without anyone speaking of it. 00:06:23.760 --> 00:06:27.130 align:middle line:90% 00:06:27.130 --> 00:06:31.440 align:middle line:90% Gravity is God's chief notion-- 00:06:31.440 --> 00:06:34.130 align:middle line:90% 00:06:34.130 --> 00:06:38.370 align:middle line:84% a spinning world with a heavy heart. 00:06:38.370 --> 00:06:44.730 align:middle line:84% A cup that is full will be drained, an empty cup filled, 00:06:44.730 --> 00:06:48.540 align:middle line:84% in accordance with the time of season, 00:06:48.540 --> 00:06:51.930 align:middle line:84% in accordance with weight and reason. 00:06:51.930 --> 00:06:55.830 align:middle line:90% 00:06:55.830 --> 00:07:02.490 align:middle line:84% Gratuitous love-- how is that possible? 00:07:02.490 --> 00:07:05.110 align:middle line:90% 00:07:05.110 --> 00:07:10.240 align:middle line:84% Lifting love of women and men that 00:07:10.240 --> 00:07:18.795 align:middle line:84% travels faster and further than feeling and muster. 00:07:18.795 --> 00:07:20.825 align:middle line:90% The one who feeds you figs. 00:07:20.825 --> 00:07:29.340 align:middle line:90% 00:07:29.340 --> 00:07:36.760 align:middle line:84% Numbers shatter when the pieces of being 00:07:36.760 --> 00:07:40.240 align:middle line:90% shower over water or dirt. 00:07:40.240 --> 00:07:43.800 align:middle line:90% 00:07:43.800 --> 00:07:49.575 align:middle line:84% Words overheard, talking into my thinking. 00:07:49.575 --> 00:07:52.420 align:middle line:90% 00:07:52.420 --> 00:07:53.290 align:middle line:90% What's my home? 00:07:53.290 --> 00:07:55.830 align:middle line:90% 00:07:55.830 --> 00:07:56.385 align:middle line:90% Who asks? 00:07:56.385 --> 00:08:04.410 align:middle line:90% 00:08:04.410 --> 00:08:13.670 align:middle line:84% Poetry is a way, not a topos in which something appears. 00:08:13.670 --> 00:08:18.130 align:middle line:84% It's a sway among the swarm to be hurled from side to side 00:08:18.130 --> 00:08:22.480 align:middle line:84% against the language walls that tunnels subversive through what 00:08:22.480 --> 00:08:28.950 align:middle line:84% is, as far as it is known, occasioning 00:08:28.950 --> 00:08:34.500 align:middle line:84% a gap in mind through which you could theoretically 00:08:34.500 --> 00:08:35.370 align:middle line:90% drive a truck. 00:08:35.370 --> 00:08:38.130 align:middle line:90% 00:08:38.130 --> 00:08:43.770 align:middle line:84% Meanwhile, dogs bark and canaries tweet, 00:08:43.770 --> 00:08:47.190 align:middle line:84% monkeys propend opposable thumbs. 00:08:47.190 --> 00:08:50.970 align:middle line:84% The covering sky won't shake out its stars 00:08:50.970 --> 00:08:56.130 align:middle line:84% to cooperate with the head's coolness, the disaster that 00:08:56.130 --> 00:08:59.880 align:middle line:90% is human life on earth. 00:08:59.880 --> 00:09:03.740 align:middle line:90% 00:09:03.740 --> 00:09:05.900 align:middle line:90% That this can be said-- 00:09:05.900 --> 00:09:10.790 align:middle line:84% imagination blisters in the cauterized night-- 00:09:10.790 --> 00:09:14.060 align:middle line:84% is possible only in the reams of paper, 00:09:14.060 --> 00:09:18.740 align:middle line:84% these hidden significant blotches of ink 00:09:18.740 --> 00:09:25.340 align:middle line:90% we twiddle in the dark. 00:09:25.340 --> 00:09:30.035 align:middle line:84% I know my fate rests with the embers. 00:09:30.035 --> 00:09:35.040 align:middle line:90% 00:09:35.040 --> 00:09:39.180 align:middle line:84% Seeing music, hearing trees, walking the talk 00:09:39.180 --> 00:09:40.560 align:middle line:90% back and forth. 00:09:40.560 --> 00:09:45.210 align:middle line:84% In the meadows, fuzzy flowers bud, and the creamy peaks, 00:09:45.210 --> 00:09:48.750 align:middle line:84% gray froth, and the demon soaring of a hawk, 00:09:48.750 --> 00:09:52.440 align:middle line:84% knowing you can't dismiss a whole people's 00:09:52.440 --> 00:09:56.768 align:middle line:84% bud as if it was produce you didn't 00:09:56.768 --> 00:09:57.810 align:middle line:90% want to buy at the store. 00:09:57.810 --> 00:10:01.100 align:middle line:90% 00:10:01.100 --> 00:10:06.380 align:middle line:84% So I go around cities, trying climb 00:10:06.380 --> 00:10:10.590 align:middle line:84% out of the box I was born in, watching out 00:10:10.590 --> 00:10:15.750 align:middle line:84% for a pace, or strategy, for tin-tin adulation, 00:10:15.750 --> 00:10:17.490 align:middle line:84% and lingering where the vestibule 00:10:17.490 --> 00:10:19.830 align:middle line:84% at the bottom of the stairs when the old drunk who 00:10:19.830 --> 00:10:24.360 align:middle line:84% works for me in the tailor shop pisses the night away, 00:10:24.360 --> 00:10:26.565 align:middle line:90% made oblivious by his sorrows. 00:10:26.565 --> 00:10:29.720 align:middle line:90% 00:10:29.720 --> 00:10:31.010 align:middle line:90% Is there anything new in this? 00:10:31.010 --> 00:10:33.740 align:middle line:90% 00:10:33.740 --> 00:10:39.310 align:middle line:84% It's what the rabbis have been muttering about-- 00:10:39.310 --> 00:10:44.340 align:middle line:84% of being born and dying at its nub. 00:10:44.340 --> 00:10:47.840 align:middle line:84% I must do the same thing, after all. 00:10:47.840 --> 00:10:51.590 align:middle line:90% Entering or leaving from or to-- 00:10:51.590 --> 00:10:55.160 align:middle line:90% the same spiral, all. 00:10:55.160 --> 00:10:57.690 align:middle line:90% 00:10:57.690 --> 00:11:01.305 align:middle line:84% I'm trying to say that's salt, stuttering." 00:11:01.305 --> 00:11:04.560 align:middle line:90% 00:11:04.560 --> 00:11:06.785 align:middle line:84% And the last poem in that series-- 00:11:06.785 --> 00:11:10.221 align:middle line:84% there's about 75 poems, so I'm just reading just a few 00:11:10.221 --> 00:11:12.680 align:middle line:90% of them. 00:11:12.680 --> 00:11:13.680 align:middle line:90% So this is the last one. 00:11:13.680 --> 00:11:16.250 align:middle line:84% I don't know that it makes any difference, 00:11:16.250 --> 00:11:17.360 align:middle line:90% but it's the last one. 00:11:17.360 --> 00:11:19.443 align:middle line:84% It might be just by chance that it's the last one. 00:11:19.443 --> 00:11:21.093 align:middle line:84% I really don't remember, actually, 00:11:21.093 --> 00:11:22.010 align:middle line:90% why it's the last one. 00:11:22.010 --> 00:11:24.620 align:middle line:90% But in fact, it is. 00:11:24.620 --> 00:11:30.080 align:middle line:84% I hear the sea washing the sky, combing out the cloud's hair 00:11:30.080 --> 00:11:36.730 align:middle line:84% as your hair is combed by the beauty of your thinking. 00:11:36.730 --> 00:11:42.240 align:middle line:90% If you are unsure, do not shear. 00:11:42.240 --> 00:11:45.120 align:middle line:84% Leave the camp and in the desert, 00:11:45.120 --> 00:11:48.060 align:middle line:90% ask the important questions. 00:11:48.060 --> 00:11:52.380 align:middle line:84% And see who answers when the bitter flavor trickles 00:11:52.380 --> 00:11:56.175 align:middle line:84% down the throat, dissolving in the stomach's darkness. 00:11:56.175 --> 00:11:59.500 align:middle line:90% 00:11:59.500 --> 00:12:04.690 align:middle line:84% Forgive everything because nothing 00:12:04.690 --> 00:12:09.610 align:middle line:84% prevents you from being a person. 00:12:09.610 --> 00:12:14.260 align:middle line:84% They only aid the cause gathered together in the twilight 00:12:14.260 --> 00:12:17.110 align:middle line:84% where, amid the ringing of bells, 00:12:17.110 --> 00:12:22.350 align:middle line:84% you stopped what you thought you were doing and rolled forth. 00:12:22.350 --> 00:12:26.120 align:middle line:90% 00:12:26.120 --> 00:12:28.610 align:middle line:84% So now I'm going to read a little bit from "Ask 00:12:28.610 --> 00:12:29.660 align:middle line:90% A Difficult Question." 00:12:29.660 --> 00:12:32.780 align:middle line:84% And this is kind of a funny poem. 00:12:32.780 --> 00:12:38.370 align:middle line:84% The circumstances are that I grew up in a little town 00:12:38.370 --> 00:12:41.130 align:middle line:90% in Pennsylvania and I haven't-- 00:12:41.130 --> 00:12:42.192 align:middle line:90% I don't go there. 00:12:42.192 --> 00:12:43.400 align:middle line:90% I have no reason to go there. 00:12:43.400 --> 00:12:45.230 align:middle line:90% So I don't go there. 00:12:45.230 --> 00:12:47.160 align:middle line:84% Decades go by and I never went there. 00:12:47.160 --> 00:12:50.550 align:middle line:84% And so I-- this one time, I went there. 00:12:50.550 --> 00:12:54.350 align:middle line:84% The reason I went there is because a relative of mine 00:12:54.350 --> 00:12:55.610 align:middle line:90% was dying. 00:12:55.610 --> 00:13:00.413 align:middle line:84% And I went to see her for the last time. 00:13:00.413 --> 00:13:04.360 align:middle line:90% And it's a very weird thing. 00:13:04.360 --> 00:13:06.773 align:middle line:84% Maybe some of you live in the town you were born in. 00:13:06.773 --> 00:13:09.440 align:middle line:84% Maybe you live in the same house you were born in, I don't know. 00:13:09.440 --> 00:13:12.460 align:middle line:84% Maybe you see that house, but I never-- 00:13:12.460 --> 00:13:15.100 align:middle line:84% decades went by and I didn't see the places where I grew up. 00:13:15.100 --> 00:13:16.570 align:middle line:90% So it's a very weird-- 00:13:16.570 --> 00:13:20.590 align:middle line:84% at the time of the death of someone in the family 00:13:20.590 --> 00:13:24.160 align:middle line:84% to go to the place that you-- where you lived every day 00:13:24.160 --> 00:13:26.120 align:middle line:84% and haven't been in 20, 30 years. 00:13:26.120 --> 00:13:29.860 align:middle line:84% To be there-- it's just a very weird sensation. 00:13:29.860 --> 00:13:32.410 align:middle line:90% I can't explain it, I guess. 00:13:32.410 --> 00:13:35.220 align:middle line:84% If I could explain it, I wouldn't have written a poem, 00:13:35.220 --> 00:13:36.160 align:middle line:90% right? 00:13:36.160 --> 00:13:39.190 align:middle line:84% So-- and what-- the form of the poem is funny because I had 00:13:39.190 --> 00:13:41.920 align:middle line:90% a friend at the time who-- 00:13:41.920 --> 00:13:46.540 align:middle line:84% his business was producing calendars and journals. 00:13:46.540 --> 00:13:50.890 align:middle line:84% And he gave me a journal that was called the Rumi Journal. 00:13:50.890 --> 00:13:52.704 align:middle line:90% And it would have-- 00:13:52.704 --> 00:13:56.807 align:middle line:84% it was like it-- you know-- you'd write your appointments 00:13:56.807 --> 00:13:59.140 align:middle line:84% or maybe you'd write your-- about your life or something 00:13:59.140 --> 00:13:59.890 align:middle line:90% in the journal. 00:13:59.890 --> 00:14:01.990 align:middle line:84% So it had quotations from Rumi, and then 00:14:01.990 --> 00:14:05.560 align:middle line:84% a whole lot of blank lines, several pages, 00:14:05.560 --> 00:14:07.448 align:middle line:84% and then it had another quotation from Rumi, 00:14:07.448 --> 00:14:08.740 align:middle line:90% and a whole lot of blank lines. 00:14:08.740 --> 00:14:12.970 align:middle line:84% So I decided to fill up this notebook with this poem. 00:14:12.970 --> 00:14:16.060 align:middle line:84% And it would be variations on whatever was suggested 00:14:16.060 --> 00:14:18.130 align:middle line:90% to me by the lines of Rumi. 00:14:18.130 --> 00:14:22.310 align:middle line:84% So you'll hear each section begins with Rumi, 00:14:22.310 --> 00:14:29.020 align:middle line:84% and then goes downhill from there, so to speak. 00:14:29.020 --> 00:14:32.920 align:middle line:84% OK, so this is the beginning-- it's going to be a little bit. 00:14:32.920 --> 00:14:37.000 align:middle line:84% "One-- though we seem to be sleeping, 00:14:37.000 --> 00:14:41.740 align:middle line:84% there is an inner wakefulness that directs the dream 00:14:41.740 --> 00:14:44.200 align:middle line:84% and that will eventually startle us back 00:14:44.200 --> 00:14:51.740 align:middle line:84% to the truth of who we are, though there's a block in time, 00:14:51.740 --> 00:14:57.210 align:middle line:84% a blackness toward which the historical rock falls 00:14:57.210 --> 00:14:59.220 align:middle line:84% in its direction of names and dates, 00:14:59.220 --> 00:15:01.240 align:middle line:84% in the photographs that are identified. 00:15:01.240 --> 00:15:05.100 align:middle line:90% They are of people in a state. 00:15:05.100 --> 00:15:10.830 align:middle line:84% And in that dream of the possibility of now, 00:15:10.830 --> 00:15:15.360 align:middle line:84% under hills that fall back against mirrors, 00:15:15.360 --> 00:15:20.250 align:middle line:84% anyone remembering the dream hears this sound 00:15:20.250 --> 00:15:25.110 align:middle line:84% as systems of identity laid out on a table 00:15:25.110 --> 00:15:28.530 align:middle line:90% in the small town remembering. 00:15:28.530 --> 00:15:35.310 align:middle line:84% The being which is a flourishing of a soft cloth which 00:15:35.310 --> 00:15:39.490 align:middle line:90% is knotted in six places. 00:15:39.490 --> 00:15:44.200 align:middle line:84% Opening the book, the place where one lived, 00:15:44.200 --> 00:15:46.510 align:middle line:84% actually something flitting along 00:15:46.510 --> 00:15:51.730 align:middle line:84% that I thought I had and came back here that was gone, 00:15:51.730 --> 00:15:55.420 align:middle line:90% though there, it was exact. 00:15:55.420 --> 00:15:58.630 align:middle line:84% Things changing, malls coming in, wide road or [INAUDIBLE] 00:15:58.630 --> 00:16:01.510 align:middle line:84% of the same roads, and streets, fields 00:16:01.510 --> 00:16:05.940 align:middle line:84% where there were hills, trees where there were trees, spaces 00:16:05.940 --> 00:16:08.250 align:middle line:84% covered in grass where there were buildings, shops 00:16:08.250 --> 00:16:10.800 align:middle line:90% and houses, ordinary skies. 00:16:10.800 --> 00:16:17.670 align:middle line:84% Not connected to it in the place where the battle was fought 00:16:17.670 --> 00:16:21.360 align:middle line:84% and the river, now a wide expanse of calm light 00:16:21.360 --> 00:16:27.360 align:middle line:84% beside broken trees, the river demanded, or evoked, 00:16:27.360 --> 00:16:30.090 align:middle line:90% this isn't some sort of dream. 00:16:30.090 --> 00:16:33.840 align:middle line:90% This can't be any imitation. 00:16:33.840 --> 00:16:40.620 align:middle line:84% There is resonance between the times in the book, which 00:16:40.620 --> 00:16:44.520 align:middle line:84% is carried about the road drunkenly after sorrow 00:16:44.520 --> 00:16:50.835 align:middle line:84% and someone's death, that slants me back to where I am, 00:16:50.835 --> 00:16:51.335 align:middle line:90% stardust. 00:16:51.335 --> 00:16:55.750 align:middle line:90% 00:16:55.750 --> 00:16:59.590 align:middle line:84% Two-- days full of wanting, let them 00:16:59.590 --> 00:17:02.470 align:middle line:84% go by without worrying that they do. 00:17:02.470 --> 00:17:06.529 align:middle line:84% Stay where you are inside, such a pure, hollow note. 00:17:06.529 --> 00:17:09.819 align:middle line:90% 00:17:09.819 --> 00:17:13.119 align:middle line:84% Memory redactions are the mind's music. 00:17:13.119 --> 00:17:16.270 align:middle line:84% In the mind's mirror, reflections of what's wanted, 00:17:16.270 --> 00:17:24.490 align:middle line:84% what is, no images, only a smell of childhood, 00:17:24.490 --> 00:17:31.870 align:middle line:84% no one's parents coming along behind them, black, round cars. 00:17:31.870 --> 00:17:35.890 align:middle line:84% No one's photographs, old clothing 00:17:35.890 --> 00:17:40.480 align:middle line:84% retrieved, wanting as longing, distance means what's close 00:17:40.480 --> 00:17:46.530 align:middle line:84% appears far, as reaching up one's hand toward fruit 00:17:46.530 --> 00:17:51.290 align:middle line:90% once their seeds disappears. 00:17:51.290 --> 00:17:53.650 align:middle line:84% As the street curves, as the old brick school 00:17:53.650 --> 00:17:56.780 align:middle line:84% next to the white church, the children entering in a freeze 00:17:56.780 --> 00:17:59.270 align:middle line:90% frame along the code. 00:17:59.270 --> 00:18:04.160 align:middle line:84% Just remaining in that zone as if it welled. 00:18:04.160 --> 00:18:08.360 align:middle line:84% The present not disturbing the past, 00:18:08.360 --> 00:18:14.000 align:middle line:84% settling into it like something falling into dust. 00:18:14.000 --> 00:18:19.160 align:middle line:84% The feeling of the ending included in the beginning. 00:18:19.160 --> 00:18:21.590 align:middle line:84% Everything mechanical approaching distance 00:18:21.590 --> 00:18:22.850 align:middle line:90% like a bell-- 00:18:22.850 --> 00:18:25.490 align:middle line:90% pure tone, water tone. 00:18:25.490 --> 00:18:27.670 align:middle line:84% Road rises up behind the house, car 00:18:27.670 --> 00:18:32.000 align:middle line:84% climbs against the flat road of the hill, journey movement, 00:18:32.000 --> 00:18:39.230 align:middle line:84% but no characters in the story, no forgiving framework, 00:18:39.230 --> 00:18:42.290 align:middle line:84% no persons, no personalities, only struggle 00:18:42.290 --> 00:18:45.800 align:middle line:84% in the red tide of desperately losing 00:18:45.800 --> 00:18:50.720 align:middle line:84% what one built up like the water that rises, falls back, 00:18:50.720 --> 00:18:54.800 align:middle line:84% crashing against the thrusting up of the land, 00:18:54.800 --> 00:18:57.320 align:middle line:84% taking the town and the buildings with it. 00:18:57.320 --> 00:19:00.500 align:middle line:84% Streets buckling, leaving debris and mud 00:19:00.500 --> 00:19:03.900 align:middle line:90% and breakage in its wake. 00:19:03.900 --> 00:19:07.238 align:middle line:90% This be my way to a feeling. 00:19:07.238 --> 00:19:09.590 align:middle line:84% Not images, only the feeling of the road 00:19:09.590 --> 00:19:11.720 align:middle line:84% climbing, humming sound of the tires, 00:19:11.720 --> 00:19:13.140 align:middle line:90% feeling what was incomplete. 00:19:13.140 --> 00:19:18.780 align:middle line:84% My hand reached out for it, but it was dim, churned up, 00:19:18.780 --> 00:19:21.932 align:middle line:90% bloated fish floating in it. 00:19:21.932 --> 00:19:26.580 align:middle line:84% And I could not advance, only reach. 00:19:26.580 --> 00:19:29.550 align:middle line:90% 00:19:29.550 --> 00:19:32.340 align:middle line:90% But there's something in it. 00:19:32.340 --> 00:19:36.600 align:middle line:90% The past isn't behind. 00:19:36.600 --> 00:19:40.120 align:middle line:84% Rather it is mixed in like a color of paint. 00:19:40.120 --> 00:19:42.120 align:middle line:84% A hump in the street next to the railroad track. 00:19:42.120 --> 00:19:44.190 align:middle line:84% Beyond it, the hill covered with trees. 00:19:44.190 --> 00:19:48.780 align:middle line:84% Some of the places I remember are gone, 00:19:48.780 --> 00:19:52.800 align:middle line:84% encoded only in the body that was the ghost they were. 00:19:52.800 --> 00:19:56.460 align:middle line:84% So that breathing the shadow, those places 00:19:56.460 --> 00:19:58.350 align:middle line:90% grew brighter, reemerged. 00:19:58.350 --> 00:20:02.580 align:middle line:84% But the person speaking to me is gone as if she never were, 00:20:02.580 --> 00:20:03.930 align:middle line:90% also the dream. 00:20:03.930 --> 00:20:06.360 align:middle line:84% Her voice and mumble can't make up words, 00:20:06.360 --> 00:20:08.520 align:middle line:90% but sense the speech as true. 00:20:08.520 --> 00:20:11.220 align:middle line:84% In the book, those are the same words 00:20:11.220 --> 00:20:15.570 align:middle line:84% in the note, words we call or were embedded there. 00:20:15.570 --> 00:20:22.380 align:middle line:84% Black letters flaming the white page, indecipherable, sweet. 00:20:22.380 --> 00:20:26.030 align:middle line:90% Farmland and gentle hills, code. 00:20:26.030 --> 00:20:30.110 align:middle line:84% The square fields in colors a code, the dividing trees 00:20:30.110 --> 00:20:31.970 align:middle line:90% enforcing a code. 00:20:31.970 --> 00:20:38.030 align:middle line:84% The only place to be in the words, as if the black lines, 00:20:38.030 --> 00:20:45.270 align:middle line:84% crawling deliberately across the page, were place enough. 00:20:45.270 --> 00:20:50.490 align:middle line:84% Persons whose passions are a code, remember this. 00:20:50.490 --> 00:20:53.880 align:middle line:84% Subtly flaps, a linen sheet or a cloth, 00:20:53.880 --> 00:20:56.760 align:middle line:84% covering it so it's only a shape that 00:20:56.760 --> 00:20:59.100 align:middle line:90% makes a motion unrecognizable. 00:20:59.100 --> 00:21:08.250 align:middle line:84% Only one knows it is there beneath all what we speak of. 00:21:08.250 --> 00:21:11.940 align:middle line:84% Cleaning the table and the floor again. 00:21:11.940 --> 00:21:15.000 align:middle line:84% So many words again, bodies and feelings again, 00:21:15.000 --> 00:21:17.670 align:middle line:84% making something out of the world. 00:21:17.670 --> 00:21:21.150 align:middle line:84% The battle to defend the river, the fort. 00:21:21.150 --> 00:21:24.450 align:middle line:84% It's been two years, guns blazing, and finally burns. 00:21:24.450 --> 00:21:26.400 align:middle line:84% A stone marks that place, erected 00:21:26.400 --> 00:21:29.970 align:middle line:84% 1900, as memory in a wedged corner of a front yard 00:21:29.970 --> 00:21:31.260 align:middle line:90% by the house up the river. 00:21:31.260 --> 00:21:36.286 align:middle line:84% And you go by there, but do not know what this means." 00:21:36.286 --> 00:21:39.600 align:middle line:90% 00:21:39.600 --> 00:21:43.265 align:middle line:90% Ah, that's quite a read. 00:21:43.265 --> 00:21:46.460 align:middle line:84% Anyway, this poem goes on for quite some time. 00:21:46.460 --> 00:21:48.776 align:middle line:84% And that's all I'll be able to read. 00:21:48.776 --> 00:22:07.480 align:middle line:90% 00:22:07.480 --> 00:22:11.080 align:middle line:84% I tend to write in a lot of different modes. 00:22:11.080 --> 00:22:15.140 align:middle line:90% 00:22:15.140 --> 00:22:21.470 align:middle line:84% So-- this-- so whenever I do a book, 00:22:21.470 --> 00:22:23.690 align:middle line:84% I usually put together work that's more or less 00:22:23.690 --> 00:22:25.480 align:middle line:84% in one mode and then another, but might 00:22:25.480 --> 00:22:29.580 align:middle line:84% be a totally different mood and mode and way of writing, 00:22:29.580 --> 00:22:34.080 align:middle line:84% and different vocabulary, and everything. 00:22:34.080 --> 00:22:37.510 align:middle line:84% And so I have one way of writing that I really enjoy, 00:22:37.510 --> 00:22:40.230 align:middle line:84% which is very pleasant for me, which is writing-- 00:22:40.230 --> 00:22:43.500 align:middle line:84% the lines in these poems are relatively short, 00:22:43.500 --> 00:22:46.140 align:middle line:84% but they're-- they're going on, as you can hear. 00:22:46.140 --> 00:22:49.840 align:middle line:84% But sometimes, I like to write little, tiny, little lines-- 00:22:49.840 --> 00:22:52.305 align:middle line:84% little, tiny, little phrases that 00:22:52.305 --> 00:22:56.900 align:middle line:84% are kind of cute and nice and pleasant, make me feel happy, 00:22:56.900 --> 00:22:59.600 align:middle line:90% you know? 00:22:59.600 --> 00:23:08.600 align:middle line:84% So-- so I guess the moral of the story 00:23:08.600 --> 00:23:14.445 align:middle line:84% is don't give me a notebook [LAUGHTER] because now that I'm 00:23:14.445 --> 00:23:16.820 align:middle line:84% thinking about it, this next poem I'm going to read from, 00:23:16.820 --> 00:23:19.790 align:middle line:84% somebody else gave me a notebook. 00:23:19.790 --> 00:23:21.740 align:middle line:84% This notebook was this big, which 00:23:21.740 --> 00:23:24.770 align:middle line:84% is why the lines in the poem are so short and small. 00:23:24.770 --> 00:23:27.620 align:middle line:84% This big-- and it was a notebook of the seasons-- 00:23:27.620 --> 00:23:29.690 align:middle line:90% winter-- a lot of blank pages. 00:23:29.690 --> 00:23:31.190 align:middle line:90% Spring-- a lot of blank pages. 00:23:31.190 --> 00:23:32.783 align:middle line:90% Summer-- a lot of blank pages. 00:23:32.783 --> 00:23:33.950 align:middle line:90% Fall-- a lot of blank pages. 00:23:33.950 --> 00:23:39.190 align:middle line:84% So this is a poem called "Seasons." 00:23:39.190 --> 00:23:47.140 align:middle line:84% "Erupts fall slant-wise, right to left, 00:23:47.140 --> 00:23:57.340 align:middle line:84% as in Hebrew or Arabic script, often enlisting gusts. 00:23:57.340 --> 00:24:06.940 align:middle line:84% Though drops drip in even lines, from roof edge drops totality, 00:24:06.940 --> 00:24:16.690 align:middle line:84% drumming on solid objects like a roof or filigree things, 00:24:16.690 --> 00:24:18.790 align:middle line:90% like trees. 00:24:18.790 --> 00:24:21.570 align:middle line:90% Make sounds. 00:24:21.570 --> 00:24:28.460 align:middle line:84% I'm learning sounds whose intenses thrill, 00:24:28.460 --> 00:24:35.210 align:middle line:90% occupying much emotional space. 00:24:35.210 --> 00:24:40.610 align:middle line:90% Sound of rain, isn't that-- 00:24:40.610 --> 00:24:48.890 align:middle line:84% that is rain's kiss or brutal shove. 00:24:48.890 --> 00:24:56.580 align:middle line:84% Drops batter or caress, according to whom, 00:24:56.580 --> 00:25:02.936 align:middle line:84% an objects yearning for existence. 00:25:02.936 --> 00:25:08.320 align:middle line:84% Now there is less or there may be more. 00:25:08.320 --> 00:25:15.600 align:middle line:90% It rains strong, falling. 00:25:15.600 --> 00:25:25.820 align:middle line:84% Absorption of rain in rain without stint or [INAUDIBLE]."." 00:25:25.820 --> 00:25:27.150 align:middle line:90% Oh, and I forgot to say-- 00:25:27.150 --> 00:25:32.800 align:middle line:84% this is from this book called Questions/Places/Voices/Seasons, 00:25:32.800 --> 00:25:38.000 align:middle line:90% which was published in 2009. 00:25:38.000 --> 00:25:42.110 align:middle line:84% And it's got a section called "Questions," a section called 00:25:42.110 --> 00:25:45.310 align:middle line:84% "Places," a section called "Voices," 00:25:45.310 --> 00:25:46.580 align:middle line:90% and this is from "Seasons." 00:25:46.580 --> 00:25:50.420 align:middle line:90% 00:25:50.420 --> 00:25:57.312 align:middle line:84% "April, bright, bright, bright cloud 00:25:57.312 --> 00:26:03.620 align:middle line:84% whose etched edges against sky's blue, 00:26:03.620 --> 00:26:11.315 align:middle line:84% rounded softly over hills in billows, unmoving and calm. 00:26:11.315 --> 00:26:14.120 align:middle line:90% 00:26:14.120 --> 00:26:18.240 align:middle line:90% Water and light dazzles. 00:26:18.240 --> 00:26:24.975 align:middle line:84% Spring clocks tick this time's last hours. 00:26:24.975 --> 00:26:32.970 align:middle line:84% Ah, the garden's mounds of receding plants-- 00:26:32.970 --> 00:26:39.840 align:middle line:84% thyme, lavender-- where bees suck, when sun-- 00:26:39.840 --> 00:26:43.500 align:middle line:90% so far away from here-- 00:26:43.500 --> 00:26:46.290 align:middle line:90% warms all things new. 00:26:46.290 --> 00:26:51.100 align:middle line:90% 00:26:51.100 --> 00:26:59.530 align:middle line:84% Round red cars, tail lamps before me on highway. 00:26:59.530 --> 00:27:02.110 align:middle line:90% 00:27:02.110 --> 00:27:09.085 align:middle line:84% One of these two, and there are many, as brakes apply. 00:27:09.085 --> 00:27:12.100 align:middle line:90% 00:27:12.100 --> 00:27:16.480 align:middle line:84% Brakes of lights under bright sky 00:27:16.480 --> 00:27:21.430 align:middle line:84% touching down to the water's surface. 00:27:21.430 --> 00:27:31.808 align:middle line:84% Birds soar by the hospital or bridge's stature 00:27:31.808 --> 00:27:34.500 align:middle line:90% on the wet ground. 00:27:34.500 --> 00:27:41.760 align:middle line:84% Still parrots, all quite where grounds gleam. 00:27:41.760 --> 00:27:44.405 align:middle line:90% 00:27:44.405 --> 00:27:53.840 align:middle line:84% Stand, raft, waiting for nothing at all. 00:27:53.840 --> 00:27:58.430 align:middle line:90% This happens each Spring day. 00:27:58.430 --> 00:28:04.820 align:middle line:84% Frogs peep in pond at Green Gulch, below zendo deck, 00:28:04.820 --> 00:28:09.620 align:middle line:90% a unison or cars rumble-- 00:28:09.620 --> 00:28:15.384 align:middle line:84% whoosh-- I haven't used going by. 00:28:15.384 --> 00:28:23.950 align:middle line:84% What to pretend to be true or go. 00:28:23.950 --> 00:28:28.690 align:middle line:90% That's Spring, all over again. 00:28:28.690 --> 00:28:34.471 align:middle line:90% Sad, cruel, April month. 00:28:34.471 --> 00:28:39.880 align:middle line:84% Where has the world been or going? 00:28:39.880 --> 00:28:48.410 align:middle line:84% Can you step off even for a moment 00:28:48.410 --> 00:28:58.000 align:middle line:84% so as to see what can be seen only outside the picture? 00:28:58.000 --> 00:29:02.434 align:middle line:90% What can't be spoken of? 00:29:02.434 --> 00:29:06.715 align:middle line:84% Of that, one must remain silent." 00:29:06.715 --> 00:29:12.730 align:middle line:90% 00:29:12.730 --> 00:29:17.380 align:middle line:84% So then, in the "Voices" part of this book, 00:29:17.380 --> 00:29:22.900 align:middle line:84% I got into pretending I was other people writing poems. 00:29:22.900 --> 00:29:24.290 align:middle line:90% Did you ever do this? 00:29:24.290 --> 00:29:25.460 align:middle line:90% I recommend it. 00:29:25.460 --> 00:29:27.520 align:middle line:84% It tells you something [INAUDIBLE] 00:29:27.520 --> 00:29:31.237 align:middle line:84% just write a poem as if you were that person. 00:29:31.237 --> 00:29:32.570 align:middle line:90% So that's what I was doing here. 00:29:32.570 --> 00:29:35.080 align:middle line:84% And then I-- I got a whole bunch of a-- 00:29:35.080 --> 00:29:41.740 align:middle line:84% I became-- I became a early-19th century rabbi from, like, 00:29:41.740 --> 00:29:42.850 align:middle line:90% Lithuania-- 00:29:42.850 --> 00:29:47.470 align:middle line:84% someplace like that, a place I've never been, 00:29:47.470 --> 00:29:53.880 align:middle line:84% who was a very pious, simple man, uneducated, simple man. 00:29:53.880 --> 00:29:55.210 align:middle line:90% And so he would write-- 00:29:55.210 --> 00:29:57.150 align:middle line:84% he didn't write poems, but he wrote prayers. 00:29:57.150 --> 00:30:00.240 align:middle line:84% So here's a few prayers written by this rabbi, whose 00:30:00.240 --> 00:30:02.895 align:middle line:90% name is Reb Yosl of Kemenetz. 00:30:02.895 --> 00:30:07.030 align:middle line:90% 00:30:07.030 --> 00:30:10.180 align:middle line:84% "Prayer to Remove Fear and See the World's Beauty." 00:30:10.180 --> 00:30:14.670 align:middle line:90% 00:30:14.670 --> 00:30:16.050 align:middle line:90% Why is the world-- 00:30:16.050 --> 00:30:18.540 align:middle line:84% sorry, I missed that word-- why is the wind-- 00:30:18.540 --> 00:30:23.970 align:middle line:84% "why is the wind so startling when, in autumn, it 00:30:23.970 --> 00:30:26.280 align:middle line:84% stirs the grasses growing on the planes. 00:30:26.280 --> 00:30:30.330 align:middle line:84% It's so terrifying in winter when it groups the trees, 00:30:30.330 --> 00:30:33.960 align:middle line:84% making me afraid the trees will uproot and fall upon my house, 00:30:33.960 --> 00:30:36.120 align:middle line:90% God forbid, oh God. 00:30:36.120 --> 00:30:43.000 align:middle line:84% You who aren't afraid of winds, or trees, or night, or of me, 00:30:43.000 --> 00:30:45.570 align:middle line:90% please grant-- 00:30:45.570 --> 00:30:48.480 align:middle line:84% though I am unworthy of your graciousness, 00:30:48.480 --> 00:30:51.150 align:middle line:84% given the meagerness of my acts, the weakness of my love, 00:30:51.150 --> 00:30:53.820 align:middle line:84% and the distraction I feel each day in the prayer house 00:30:53.820 --> 00:30:58.080 align:middle line:84% where my mind wanders to common unexalted thoughts-- 00:30:58.080 --> 00:31:01.380 align:middle line:84% that my heart be purified, that my deeds 00:31:01.380 --> 00:31:02.910 align:middle line:84% and the words I utter from this day 00:31:02.910 --> 00:31:09.000 align:middle line:84% forth work the roughness from my soul, 00:31:09.000 --> 00:31:13.830 align:middle line:84% to cleanse and polish my eyes so that your world will 00:31:13.830 --> 00:31:18.630 align:middle line:84% shine in them, startlingly, in the spirit of you." 00:31:18.630 --> 00:31:22.090 align:middle line:90% 00:31:22.090 --> 00:31:23.230 align:middle line:90% "Prayer for My Wife." 00:31:23.230 --> 00:31:27.480 align:middle line:90% 00:31:27.480 --> 00:31:30.570 align:middle line:84% "This is a prayer for my wife, dear God, 00:31:30.570 --> 00:31:36.420 align:middle line:84% who moves no matter where she moves, whether in air, 00:31:36.420 --> 00:31:39.810 align:middle line:84% on earth, or under water, God forbid, 00:31:39.810 --> 00:31:43.290 align:middle line:84% at the precise center of my life, 00:31:43.290 --> 00:31:46.170 align:middle line:84% where I know you should live-- forgive me-- 00:31:46.170 --> 00:31:49.350 align:middle line:84% in the fullness of every good thought, 00:31:49.350 --> 00:31:51.660 align:middle line:84% every worthwhile and kind deed I do. 00:31:51.660 --> 00:31:54.420 align:middle line:84% Oh God, praise her, protect her so she won't get sick 00:31:54.420 --> 00:31:56.290 align:middle line:84% or be seriously hurt by anything. 00:31:56.290 --> 00:31:59.730 align:middle line:84% And since I know that because of my sins and the weakness 00:31:59.730 --> 00:32:02.280 align:middle line:84% of the flesh so poor it is always in your eyes, 00:32:02.280 --> 00:32:08.640 align:middle line:84% this is impossible, I am asking you to do it anyway 00:32:08.640 --> 00:32:13.170 align:middle line:84% because you are the God who turned back the seas, fed us 00:32:13.170 --> 00:32:16.080 align:middle line:84% in the wilderness, leading us by a pillar of fire, 00:32:16.080 --> 00:32:18.660 align:middle line:84% and such things for you are surely possible 00:32:18.660 --> 00:32:20.550 align:middle line:90% should you wish to grant them. 00:32:20.550 --> 00:32:25.020 align:middle line:84% Or if you are offended by my asking, 00:32:25.020 --> 00:32:31.336 align:middle line:84% please instead grant that her falls not be from high places-- 00:32:31.336 --> 00:32:33.080 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:32:33.080 --> 00:32:37.730 align:middle line:84% --and her scrapes and bruises not so rough and painful, 00:32:37.730 --> 00:32:41.660 align:middle line:84% and that the heavy pots she lifts, the pails of milk, 00:32:41.660 --> 00:32:47.240 align:middle line:84% be made slightly less weighty in her arms. 00:32:47.240 --> 00:32:49.640 align:middle line:84% May her soul's sufferings be likewise 00:32:49.640 --> 00:32:52.040 align:middle line:84% lightened, lifted up gently toward heaven 00:32:52.040 --> 00:32:55.130 align:middle line:84% by your ministering angels, so that she will become 00:32:55.130 --> 00:32:57.440 align:middle line:90% used to them and not complain. 00:32:57.440 --> 00:33:00.500 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:33:00.500 --> 00:33:04.310 align:middle line:84% And when, dear God, I am gone away and cannot help her, 00:33:04.310 --> 00:33:09.290 align:middle line:84% please do your best to be her support so that she be well 00:33:09.290 --> 00:33:14.990 align:middle line:84% and safe and happy and satisfied in a world that is well enough 00:33:14.990 --> 00:33:17.630 align:middle line:90% and sufficient. 00:33:17.630 --> 00:33:22.550 align:middle line:84% And I bless you God in advance for granting these things 00:33:22.550 --> 00:33:27.730 align:middle line:84% and perform providing me with such a radiant bride." 00:33:27.730 --> 00:33:31.020 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:33:31.020 --> 00:33:32.440 align:middle line:90% 00:33:32.440 --> 00:33:33.910 align:middle line:90% OK. 00:33:33.910 --> 00:33:44.110 align:middle line:84% Now, I will conclude with three shortish poems. 00:33:44.110 --> 00:33:49.990 align:middle line:90% And so let's see. 00:33:49.990 --> 00:33:50.620 align:middle line:90% Will I do that? 00:33:50.620 --> 00:33:55.030 align:middle line:90% 00:33:55.030 --> 00:33:57.510 align:middle line:84% No, I'll-- I'll make it a little shorter. 00:33:57.510 --> 00:34:02.070 align:middle line:84% I'll read one of my own short poems. 00:34:02.070 --> 00:34:03.510 align:middle line:90% And then I'm going to read a-- 00:34:03.510 --> 00:34:06.420 align:middle line:84% I'll conclude with a poem by somebody else. 00:34:06.420 --> 00:34:09.730 align:middle line:90% 00:34:09.730 --> 00:34:13.719 align:middle line:84% This is a poem called "After Robert Desnos." 00:34:13.719 --> 00:34:19.013 align:middle line:84% or if you're French, I guess it's Robert Desnos 00:34:19.013 --> 00:34:21.780 align:middle line:90% in French-- surrealist poet. 00:34:21.780 --> 00:34:28.547 align:middle line:84% This is basically me stealing his poem. 00:34:28.547 --> 00:34:33.690 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:34:33.690 --> 00:34:41.040 align:middle line:84% "A frightening stillness will announce the voice, 00:34:41.040 --> 00:34:45.510 align:middle line:84% slashing into the dockyard, crates in the shadows of street 00:34:45.510 --> 00:34:47.429 align:middle line:90% lights. 00:34:47.429 --> 00:34:50.760 align:middle line:84% The stillness will exhaust the light. 00:34:50.760 --> 00:34:53.100 align:middle line:84% All things will be dark and silent, 00:34:53.100 --> 00:34:56.280 align:middle line:84% all weight fall and melt, all time 00:34:56.280 --> 00:34:59.040 align:middle line:90% rewound and marching in place. 00:34:59.040 --> 00:35:04.032 align:middle line:84% Feathers, feathers, mothers, fathers, trucks, toboggans, tug 00:35:04.032 --> 00:35:04.740 align:middle line:90% boats, airplanes. 00:35:04.740 --> 00:35:12.550 align:middle line:84% The wind will silently growl an unheard growl. 00:35:12.550 --> 00:35:17.260 align:middle line:84% A beastly noise the bend in the waterfront. 00:35:17.260 --> 00:35:25.150 align:middle line:84% And we will hear the great voice coming from far away, 00:35:25.150 --> 00:35:27.890 align:middle line:84% passing over the city, the vine, the treetop, the knoll. 00:35:27.890 --> 00:35:31.090 align:middle line:84% We will have waited long, too long. 00:35:31.090 --> 00:35:35.410 align:middle line:84% We will wait long and longer, waiting 00:35:35.410 --> 00:35:38.500 align:middle line:84% without knowing we are waiting, longer and longer. 00:35:38.500 --> 00:35:43.660 align:middle line:84% All thought absorbed in the hum, the great voice 00:35:43.660 --> 00:35:48.430 align:middle line:84% will sound at the rich man's time of day 00:35:48.430 --> 00:35:54.040 align:middle line:84% when the dust, the stones, the factories, the women's tears 00:35:54.040 --> 00:35:58.340 align:middle line:84% cover the sun with anxious horror. 00:35:58.340 --> 00:36:02.930 align:middle line:90% And we shall hear the voice. 00:36:02.930 --> 00:36:07.730 align:middle line:84% It will batter towers and trade centers. 00:36:07.730 --> 00:36:10.640 align:middle line:84% It will hurl desks and workstations, 00:36:10.640 --> 00:36:14.030 align:middle line:84% shattering statistics and window panes, torturing flags. 00:36:14.030 --> 00:36:16.370 align:middle line:90% We will hear it. 00:36:16.370 --> 00:36:23.350 align:middle line:84% What silence before it, but still greater the silence 00:36:23.350 --> 00:36:25.370 align:middle line:90% of guilt and denunciation. 00:36:25.370 --> 00:36:28.460 align:middle line:84% All promises broken, all hope dissolved. 00:36:28.460 --> 00:36:35.300 align:middle line:84% The jar of humanness filled and everywhere spilling. 00:36:35.300 --> 00:36:43.010 align:middle line:84% Love, my love, will expand with refurbished logic and feeling, 00:36:43.010 --> 00:36:45.500 align:middle line:90% personal at last. 00:36:45.500 --> 00:36:49.400 align:middle line:84% We will see it in a seagull soaring overhead, 00:36:49.400 --> 00:36:54.710 align:middle line:84% feathers, feathers, wafting down, white and easily floating 00:36:54.710 --> 00:36:59.600 align:middle line:84% in the clear sky watched by wind in which three 00:36:59.600 --> 00:37:12.050 align:middle line:84% round white clouds hover, soft on the song of the determined 00:37:12.050 --> 00:37:14.820 align:middle line:90% revolt of the world." 00:37:14.820 --> 00:37:29.550 align:middle line:90% 00:37:29.550 --> 00:37:31.050 align:middle line:90% So I'll end with-- 00:37:31.050 --> 00:37:38.938 align:middle line:90% 00:37:38.938 --> 00:37:44.780 align:middle line:84% a short poem by my friend, Rodney Koeneke, 00:37:44.780 --> 00:37:47.480 align:middle line:90% who's a really good poet. 00:37:47.480 --> 00:37:50.165 align:middle line:84% I wish I could write as good as Rodney Koeneke. 00:37:50.165 --> 00:37:52.280 align:middle line:90% I'm jealous, mad at him. 00:37:52.280 --> 00:37:56.690 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:37:56.690 --> 00:38:00.270 align:middle line:84% So this poem is called "Billet-don't." 00:38:00.270 --> 00:38:02.610 align:middle line:90% You know, like billet-doux? 00:38:02.610 --> 00:38:03.650 align:middle line:90% What is a Billet-doux? 00:38:03.650 --> 00:38:05.330 align:middle line:90% It's a love letter. 00:38:05.330 --> 00:38:06.200 align:middle line:90% A love letter? 00:38:06.200 --> 00:38:07.845 align:middle line:90% So this is "Billet-don't." 00:38:07.845 --> 00:38:11.170 align:middle line:90% 00:38:11.170 --> 00:38:14.470 align:middle line:84% "You and your schoolmarm grammar. 00:38:14.470 --> 00:38:17.920 align:middle line:90% Me and my fake Greek. 00:38:17.920 --> 00:38:21.080 align:middle line:84% To court me in this language of a of a Finnish peasant fucked 00:38:21.080 --> 00:38:23.440 align:middle line:90% improperly at the equinox-- 00:38:23.440 --> 00:38:26.080 align:middle line:90% Mieleni Minun Tekevi-- 00:38:26.080 --> 00:38:28.255 align:middle line:84% I am driven by my longing, languid 00:38:28.255 --> 00:38:32.470 align:middle line:84% as-- languid as East Kansas, my teeth grown 00:38:32.470 --> 00:38:39.280 align:middle line:84% soft like Chiclets, sad casualties of night. 00:38:39.280 --> 00:38:43.210 align:middle line:90% Moon, I think you're cooling. 00:38:43.210 --> 00:38:47.440 align:middle line:84% Dreams get more terse, your exegeses of them 00:38:47.440 --> 00:38:51.880 align:middle line:84% obscurer and, on the coast where misprision swats at foam, 00:38:51.880 --> 00:38:56.980 align:middle line:84% each word deliquesces with morning into its opposite-- 00:38:56.980 --> 00:39:01.720 align:middle line:84% "Come hithers" to "Vale, fratres," "Venetian" 00:39:01.720 --> 00:39:08.740 align:middle line:84% to "Venusian," logic to lyric, cherry to choke. 00:39:08.740 --> 00:39:11.680 align:middle line:84% Dinosaurs escape the barns of slumber and slither 00:39:11.680 --> 00:39:13.810 align:middle line:84% into the remoter villages of my feelings 00:39:13.810 --> 00:39:16.330 align:middle line:84% to join its dark stories: brother 00:39:16.330 --> 00:39:21.280 align:middle line:84% consumes sister, sister marries father, crone boils babies, 00:39:21.280 --> 00:39:25.390 align:middle line:84% druids bone crones, and niceties like plot and conclusion 00:39:25.390 --> 00:39:29.920 align:middle line:84% and bourgeoisie time are as out of place 00:39:29.920 --> 00:39:35.380 align:middle line:84% as ostriches in a Finnish national epic, 00:39:35.380 --> 00:39:39.700 align:middle line:84% or scruples in our hot friendship, 00:39:39.700 --> 00:39:44.080 align:middle line:84% or snowmen half-assembled on the lawns of spring's pavilions, 00:39:44.080 --> 00:39:48.490 align:middle line:84% where everything cold is exposed as excuses for melting, 00:39:48.490 --> 00:39:56.500 align:middle line:84% then quickime for burning, then rugs for your Cossack boots. 00:39:56.500 --> 00:40:00.130 align:middle line:84% My Sibyl of leaves and longing, I was once 00:40:00.130 --> 00:40:03.910 align:middle line:84% have sane mind and stallions used 00:40:03.910 --> 00:40:07.460 align:middle line:84% to pull me drunk through evening. 00:40:07.460 --> 00:40:13.690 align:middle line:84% Now, just closing eyes takes a giant effort 00:40:13.690 --> 00:40:21.900 align:middle line:84% and I am a sleepless fan of nearly everything you do." 00:40:21.900 --> 00:40:25.850 align:middle line:84% So that's the great Rodney Koeneke, poet. 00:40:25.850 --> 00:40:28.560 align:middle line:84% So I thank you very much for being here. 00:40:28.560 --> 00:40:29.514 align:middle line:90% Wonderful. 00:40:29.514 --> 00:40:32.972 align:middle line:90% [APPLAUSE] 00:40:32.972 --> 00:40:38.410 align:middle line:90% 00:40:38.410 --> 00:40:40.750 align:middle line:84% I had the distinct illusion that you were listening. 00:40:40.750 --> 00:40:41.610 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:40:41.610 --> 00:40:43.570 align:middle line:90% I thought that was brave. 00:40:43.570 --> 00:40:46.018 align:middle line:84% And only one person got fed up and walked out, 00:40:46.018 --> 00:40:46.810 align:middle line:90% that's pretty good. 00:40:46.810 --> 00:40:50.080 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:40:50.080 --> 00:40:51.580 align:middle line:90% And if there's anything-- 00:40:51.580 --> 00:40:57.970 align:middle line:84% I think we can take 5 or 10 more minutes if anybody has anything 00:40:57.970 --> 00:41:00.790 align:middle line:84% they want to say, or bring up, or talk about, or ask 00:41:00.790 --> 00:41:03.070 align:middle line:90% a question, or make a comment. 00:41:03.070 --> 00:41:05.050 align:middle line:84% They told me that this would be a good idea, 00:41:05.050 --> 00:41:06.008 align:middle line:90% if you want to do that. 00:41:06.008 --> 00:41:10.990 align:middle line:84% I'll give you the microphone, you can be seen and speak. 00:41:10.990 --> 00:41:14.260 align:middle line:84% So I'm happy to talk to you if you want to. 00:41:14.260 --> 00:41:26.212 align:middle line:90% 00:41:26.212 --> 00:41:26.730 align:middle line:90% Hi. 00:41:26.730 --> 00:41:31.100 align:middle line:84% So for one, fantastic reading, thank you for coming tonight. 00:41:31.100 --> 00:41:34.310 align:middle line:84% I was wondering with your poetry, specifically your zen 00:41:34.310 --> 00:41:36.470 align:middle line:84% poetry, is there anything in particular 00:41:36.470 --> 00:41:39.260 align:middle line:84% that you strive to do through it? 00:41:39.260 --> 00:41:40.610 align:middle line:90% Or is every poem-- 00:41:40.610 --> 00:41:46.790 align:middle line:84% every poem kind of an individual mission that you strive for? 00:41:46.790 --> 00:41:50.103 align:middle line:84% Is there anything that you aim to do with your poetry? 00:41:50.103 --> 00:41:51.770 align:middle line:84% No, I think that's right, what you said. 00:41:51.770 --> 00:41:55.160 align:middle line:84% Every poem is an individual something. 00:41:55.160 --> 00:41:57.740 align:middle line:90% 00:41:57.740 --> 00:41:58.550 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:41:58.550 --> 00:42:01.912 align:middle line:84% I don't have too many intentions. 00:42:01.912 --> 00:42:03.220 align:middle line:90% No. 00:42:03.220 --> 00:42:03.720 align:middle line:90% Thank you. 00:42:03.720 --> 00:42:19.360 align:middle line:90% 00:42:19.360 --> 00:42:21.970 align:middle line:90% So, just to follow up on that-- 00:42:21.970 --> 00:42:25.000 align:middle line:90% 00:42:25.000 --> 00:42:28.103 align:middle line:84% what's your writing process, if you have one? 00:42:28.103 --> 00:42:31.560 align:middle line:90% 00:42:31.560 --> 00:42:38.390 align:middle line:84% Well, I-- when I'm writing poetry-- 00:42:38.390 --> 00:42:44.720 align:middle line:84% poems-- it's all, entirely long hand and journals. 00:42:44.720 --> 00:42:47.062 align:middle line:84% I've got lots and lots and lots of journals. 00:42:47.062 --> 00:42:49.520 align:middle line:84% And I probably have lots of poems that I've forgotten about 00:42:49.520 --> 00:42:51.080 align:middle line:84% and that were abandoned in journals. 00:42:51.080 --> 00:42:53.372 align:middle line:84% I'm always trying to make sure I don't lose any of them 00:42:53.372 --> 00:42:54.860 align:middle line:90% when I come to the [INAUDIBLE] 00:42:54.860 --> 00:42:58.010 align:middle line:84% So I write in the journals whenever I can. 00:42:58.010 --> 00:43:01.520 align:middle line:84% I-- I write a lot on the fly, on the road, and on the airplane, 00:43:01.520 --> 00:43:03.080 align:middle line:90% on the bus. 00:43:03.080 --> 00:43:05.810 align:middle line:84% That's a great place to write because then you 00:43:05.810 --> 00:43:07.880 align:middle line:90% really know you're en route. 00:43:07.880 --> 00:43:10.650 align:middle line:84% You're en route the whole time anyway, but in the airport 00:43:10.650 --> 00:43:11.840 align:middle line:90% you really get it. 00:43:11.840 --> 00:43:13.370 align:middle line:84% The airport, I was thinking today, 00:43:13.370 --> 00:43:15.810 align:middle line:84% it's kind of like purgatory, in the airport. 00:43:15.810 --> 00:43:17.810 align:middle line:84% Everybody is kind of going one way or the other. 00:43:17.810 --> 00:43:20.700 align:middle line:84% And some of them are going to hell and some are going home-- 00:43:20.700 --> 00:43:21.200 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:43:21.200 --> 00:43:24.020 align:middle line:84% But they're all en route in the airport. 00:43:24.020 --> 00:43:26.330 align:middle line:84% But I also, of course, am writing anywhere 00:43:26.330 --> 00:43:29.120 align:middle line:84% and everywhere-- at home and-- so, but I like to-- 00:43:29.120 --> 00:43:30.480 align:middle line:90% I don't like to sit at a desk. 00:43:30.480 --> 00:43:34.184 align:middle line:84% I'm usually sitting in a chair and have my notebook in my lap, 00:43:34.184 --> 00:43:37.450 align:middle line:84% and I'm kind of doodling and doodling into thinking. 00:43:37.450 --> 00:43:42.640 align:middle line:84% But now, in the last years, I discovered this great thing 00:43:42.640 --> 00:43:45.890 align:middle line:84% which has changed my process quite a bit, 00:43:45.890 --> 00:43:49.340 align:middle line:84% which is that you can type a poem-- because then you have 00:43:49.340 --> 00:43:50.170 align:middle line:90% to type, right? 00:43:50.170 --> 00:43:53.890 align:middle line:90% You write it in your notebook. 00:43:53.890 --> 00:43:57.080 align:middle line:84% Once in a while, you're writing a poem and you think, 00:43:57.080 --> 00:44:00.198 align:middle line:90% boy, is this stupid? 00:44:00.198 --> 00:44:01.240 align:middle line:90% But most of the time, no. 00:44:01.240 --> 00:44:03.820 align:middle line:84% Most of the time, you're thinking-- this is so great. 00:44:03.820 --> 00:44:04.960 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:44:04.960 --> 00:44:07.090 align:middle line:90% This is so great. 00:44:07.090 --> 00:44:09.100 align:middle line:90% And then you type it up. 00:44:09.100 --> 00:44:11.170 align:middle line:84% And that's when you think-- this is so stupid. 00:44:11.170 --> 00:44:14.570 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:44:14.570 --> 00:44:15.070 align:middle line:90% 00:44:15.070 --> 00:44:19.000 align:middle line:84% So-- and then you put it in a file and forget about it 00:44:19.000 --> 00:44:20.110 align:middle line:90% and it's gone forever. 00:44:20.110 --> 00:44:22.630 align:middle line:84% Sometimes-- sometimes there's something interesting 00:44:22.630 --> 00:44:23.630 align:middle line:90% that keeps you going. 00:44:23.630 --> 00:44:27.190 align:middle line:84% So-- oh, here's the thing I just discovered-- 00:44:27.190 --> 00:44:31.150 align:middle line:84% that you can type a poem on your iPad 00:44:31.150 --> 00:44:35.290 align:middle line:84% and it then appears on the cloud, so that you can-- 00:44:35.290 --> 00:44:39.970 align:middle line:84% it will reappear on any device that you have, any time, right? 00:44:39.970 --> 00:44:43.265 align:middle line:84% So this means that you can be sitting around anywhere, 00:44:43.265 --> 00:44:44.890 align:middle line:84% you know, doing-- having nothing to do. 00:44:44.890 --> 00:44:47.320 align:middle line:84% And instead of going on Facebook, 00:44:47.320 --> 00:44:51.250 align:middle line:84% you can pull out your iPad and look at one of your 50 poems 00:44:51.250 --> 00:44:54.680 align:middle line:84% that you're working on and fool around with. 00:44:54.680 --> 00:44:57.385 align:middle line:84% So it's really helped me to do a lot of revision, 00:44:57.385 --> 00:45:00.560 align:middle line:84% and messing around, and doing things with poems, 00:45:00.560 --> 00:45:01.410 align:middle line:90% and polishing them. 00:45:01.410 --> 00:45:03.690 align:middle line:84% And sometimes you polish it up and you polish it 00:45:03.690 --> 00:45:05.240 align:middle line:90% into oblivion-- 00:45:05.240 --> 00:45:09.680 align:middle line:84% it's finished-- [INAUDIBLE] it's no good anymore. 00:45:09.680 --> 00:45:13.730 align:middle line:84% And sometimes-- so for me, it's very unfortunate. 00:45:13.730 --> 00:45:16.070 align:middle line:90% I wish I was more organized. 00:45:16.070 --> 00:45:18.890 align:middle line:90% But it's pretty unsystematic. 00:45:18.890 --> 00:45:20.120 align:middle line:90% I have a bunch of poems. 00:45:20.120 --> 00:45:21.620 align:middle line:84% I don't know where they are, exactly 00:45:21.620 --> 00:45:23.606 align:middle line:90% what file they're in now. 00:45:23.606 --> 00:45:26.300 align:middle line:84% But maybe I submit some to a magazine 00:45:26.300 --> 00:45:28.070 align:middle line:84% and I totally forget about it, you know. 00:45:28.070 --> 00:45:29.510 align:middle line:84% And the magazine forgets about it. 00:45:29.510 --> 00:45:30.635 align:middle line:90% And that's the end of that. 00:45:30.635 --> 00:45:31.640 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:45:31.640 --> 00:45:33.470 align:middle line:90% Sometimes, I'm surprised. 00:45:33.470 --> 00:45:35.720 align:middle line:84% I get an email-- oh, we're going to publish your poem. 00:45:35.720 --> 00:45:36.290 align:middle line:90% Oh, great. 00:45:36.290 --> 00:45:38.780 align:middle line:90% I forgot I sent it to you. 00:45:38.780 --> 00:45:41.160 align:middle line:90% So it's kind of like that. 00:45:41.160 --> 00:45:42.260 align:middle line:90% Yeah? 00:45:42.260 --> 00:45:43.765 align:middle line:90% I can't see you. 00:45:43.765 --> 00:45:45.220 align:middle line:90% You? 00:45:45.220 --> 00:45:51.350 align:middle line:84% So if someone asks you to delve more into one of your poems, 00:45:51.350 --> 00:45:54.350 align:middle line:84% or explain it, you want to know more about it, is that-- 00:45:54.350 --> 00:45:57.218 align:middle line:90% 00:45:57.218 --> 00:46:02.380 align:middle line:84% not is that an insult, but does that take all the magic out 00:46:02.380 --> 00:46:03.070 align:middle line:90% of it-- that-- 00:46:03.070 --> 00:46:05.260 align:middle line:90% Uh-huh-- 00:46:05.260 --> 00:46:07.630 align:middle line:84% Each person should get out of it what 00:46:07.630 --> 00:46:10.510 align:middle line:90% they want to get out of it? 00:46:10.510 --> 00:46:14.005 align:middle line:84% Well, if you and I sat down with one of my poems, 00:46:14.005 --> 00:46:19.540 align:middle line:84% you know, like on a piece of paper between us on a desk, 00:46:19.540 --> 00:46:23.280 align:middle line:84% we could say, I wonder what this is about? 00:46:23.280 --> 00:46:24.683 align:middle line:90% What do you think? 00:46:24.683 --> 00:46:26.440 align:middle line:84% And then you would say something. 00:46:26.440 --> 00:46:27.940 align:middle line:84% And I'd say, that's so interesting. 00:46:27.940 --> 00:46:30.170 align:middle line:90% I never thought of that. 00:46:30.170 --> 00:46:33.730 align:middle line:84% And I think maybe it could be this. 00:46:33.730 --> 00:46:34.820 align:middle line:90% You see what I'm saying? 00:46:34.820 --> 00:46:37.892 align:middle line:84% In other words, I don't mind doing that. 00:46:37.892 --> 00:46:39.850 align:middle line:84% But it's not like I have a better idea about it 00:46:39.850 --> 00:46:42.010 align:middle line:90% than you do. 00:46:42.010 --> 00:46:45.667 align:middle line:84% Because I have no-- as I said, no, I wrote it. 00:46:45.667 --> 00:46:47.500 align:middle line:84% But that doesn't mean I know what I'm doing. 00:46:47.500 --> 00:46:49.690 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:46:49.690 --> 00:46:52.870 align:middle line:84% No, exactly the point is that for me, 00:46:52.870 --> 00:46:57.310 align:middle line:84% if I knew what I was doing, I wouldn't want to write it. 00:46:57.310 --> 00:46:59.110 align:middle line:84% The interesting thing is that I don't 00:46:59.110 --> 00:47:00.920 align:middle line:90% know what's going to happen. 00:47:00.920 --> 00:47:03.010 align:middle line:90% The poems are improvised, right? 00:47:03.010 --> 00:47:07.600 align:middle line:84% I have some kind of vague parameters maybe, or feeling. 00:47:07.600 --> 00:47:10.850 align:middle line:84% But I don't really know what's going to happen. 00:47:10.850 --> 00:47:16.370 align:middle line:84% And so I hope to be surprised and mystified by my own poems. 00:47:16.370 --> 00:47:18.610 align:middle line:90% That's what makes them fun. 00:47:18.610 --> 00:47:22.300 align:middle line:90% And so-- but we could probably-- 00:47:22.300 --> 00:47:25.570 align:middle line:84% I mean, you know let's get together and try that sometime. 00:47:25.570 --> 00:47:26.680 align:middle line:90% I'm very interested. 00:47:26.680 --> 00:47:28.150 align:middle line:84% I don't ever do that, but I think 00:47:28.150 --> 00:47:31.480 align:middle line:84% it would be fun to do that and see what we can think of. 00:47:31.480 --> 00:47:33.790 align:middle line:84% And so I think you could have a lot of associations 00:47:33.790 --> 00:47:35.830 align:middle line:90% and get a lot out of it. 00:47:35.830 --> 00:47:38.110 align:middle line:84% And maybe talking with another person about it, 00:47:38.110 --> 00:47:40.390 align:middle line:90% you could get even more. 00:47:40.390 --> 00:47:43.630 align:middle line:84% But then you wouldn't-- you wouldn't come to the place 00:47:43.630 --> 00:47:44.980 align:middle line:90% where we'd say-- 00:47:44.980 --> 00:47:48.120 align:middle line:90% and this is what he's saying. 00:47:48.120 --> 00:47:49.875 align:middle line:84% I don't think you'd get to that place. 00:47:49.875 --> 00:47:53.190 align:middle line:84% Well, when you read the poem of the Lithuanian rabbi-- 00:47:53.190 --> 00:47:53.810 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:47:53.810 --> 00:47:57.600 align:middle line:84% And he was praying that his wife would have it easy 00:47:57.600 --> 00:47:59.340 align:middle line:84% so she wouldn't complain, I thought 00:47:59.340 --> 00:48:00.520 align:middle line:90% that was totally hilarious. 00:48:00.520 --> 00:48:01.020 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:48:01.020 --> 00:48:05.901 align:middle line:84% But maybe you were thinking it was guilt-- 00:48:05.901 --> 00:48:07.690 align:middle line:84% wants you to have a nice, pleasant life. 00:48:07.690 --> 00:48:08.190 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:48:08.190 --> 00:48:09.648 align:middle line:84% No, I thought it was kind of funny. 00:48:09.648 --> 00:48:11.868 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:48:11.868 --> 00:48:12.410 align:middle line:90% Yeah, I was-- 00:48:12.410 --> 00:48:13.660 align:middle line:90% But it just came out that way. 00:48:13.660 --> 00:48:14.535 align:middle line:90% You know what I mean? 00:48:14.535 --> 00:48:16.050 align:middle line:84% I wasn't-- I wasn't thinking-- now, 00:48:16.050 --> 00:48:18.090 align:middle line:84% I'm going to make this funny in this way. 00:48:18.090 --> 00:48:20.520 align:middle line:90% It just came out that way. 00:48:20.520 --> 00:48:23.370 align:middle line:84% Part of the thing that, probably, you-- 00:48:23.370 --> 00:48:26.730 align:middle line:84% that would be a secret thing that you wouldn't know is 00:48:26.730 --> 00:48:31.110 align:middle line:84% a line in that poem about how wherever she is-- on land, 00:48:31.110 --> 00:48:35.160 align:middle line:84% or air, or underwater, God forbid-- 00:48:35.160 --> 00:48:36.460 align:middle line:90% my wife is a scuba diver. 00:48:36.460 --> 00:48:36.960 align:middle line:90% Oh. 00:48:36.960 --> 00:48:38.860 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:48:38.860 --> 00:48:40.290 align:middle line:90% I mean, it's my wife. 00:48:40.290 --> 00:48:43.330 align:middle line:84% It's Rabbi Yosl's wife that we're talking about, 00:48:43.330 --> 00:48:43.830 align:middle line:90% not my wife. 00:48:43.830 --> 00:48:45.997 align:middle line:84% But it just so happens that my wife's a scuba diver. 00:48:45.997 --> 00:48:46.510 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:48:46.510 --> 00:48:50.940 align:middle line:90% [INAUDIBLE] 00:48:50.940 --> 00:48:51.440 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:48:51.440 --> 00:48:56.974 align:middle line:90% 00:48:56.974 --> 00:48:57.950 align:middle line:90% [INAUDIBLE] Yeah. 00:48:57.950 --> 00:49:06.750 align:middle line:90% 00:49:06.750 --> 00:49:09.210 align:middle line:84% When you were talking about messing around 00:49:09.210 --> 00:49:11.430 align:middle line:84% with poems on your iPad, or whatever you use, 00:49:11.430 --> 00:49:12.880 align:middle line:90% you call it polishing? 00:49:12.880 --> 00:49:13.380 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:49:13.380 --> 00:49:15.613 align:middle line:84% And I wonder if you messing around with poems usually 00:49:15.613 --> 00:49:17.280 align:middle line:84% to you feels like polishing, or if there 00:49:17.280 --> 00:49:19.560 align:middle line:90% are other ways you describe it? 00:49:19.560 --> 00:49:23.470 align:middle line:84% Well, thanks, because polishing isn't a very good word. 00:49:23.470 --> 00:49:25.260 align:middle line:90% Yeah, it's not polishing. 00:49:25.260 --> 00:49:29.310 align:middle line:84% But sometimes, I'm reading the poem and I see-- 00:49:29.310 --> 00:49:31.680 align:middle line:84% reading it and many, many, many, many times-- 00:49:31.680 --> 00:49:35.490 align:middle line:84% sometimes I can see where it doesn't work. 00:49:35.490 --> 00:49:37.350 align:middle line:84% So that's it's not necessarily polishing. 00:49:37.350 --> 00:49:39.240 align:middle line:90% It's like surgery or something. 00:49:39.240 --> 00:49:41.060 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:49:41.060 --> 00:49:42.600 align:middle line:90% And-- and-- but there is-- 00:49:42.600 --> 00:49:45.090 align:middle line:90% like just today, I saw-- 00:49:45.090 --> 00:49:46.840 align:middle line:84% this poem, I said, oh, yeah, look at this. 00:49:46.840 --> 00:49:49.840 align:middle line:84% How did I not notice this boo-boo before? 00:49:49.840 --> 00:49:51.510 align:middle line:90% This is not-- this is terrible. 00:49:51.510 --> 00:49:52.380 align:middle line:90% I'm so embarrassed. 00:49:52.380 --> 00:49:54.900 align:middle line:84% All these versions of this poem were out there 00:49:54.900 --> 00:49:56.190 align:middle line:90% and I missed this. 00:49:56.190 --> 00:49:58.210 align:middle line:90% So I-- that happens. 00:49:58.210 --> 00:49:59.085 align:middle line:90% You know how that is. 00:49:59.085 --> 00:50:00.900 align:middle line:84% You read it 100 times and you don't 00:50:00.900 --> 00:50:03.300 align:middle line:90% see something that's there. 00:50:03.300 --> 00:50:05.998 align:middle line:90% But a lot of it is just reading. 00:50:05.998 --> 00:50:08.040 align:middle line:84% And it's a whole thing to read it again and again 00:50:08.040 --> 00:50:10.415 align:middle line:84% and again and again, even if you don't do anything to it. 00:50:10.415 --> 00:50:13.770 align:middle line:84% Just to read it again and again is-- changes the whole-- 00:50:13.770 --> 00:50:15.480 align:middle line:90% your whole relationship to it. 00:50:15.480 --> 00:50:18.870 align:middle line:84% So it's just been fun for me to-- do you do that, too? 00:50:18.870 --> 00:50:19.390 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:50:19.390 --> 00:50:19.890 align:middle line:90% It's fun. 00:50:19.890 --> 00:50:25.760 align:middle line:90% 00:50:25.760 --> 00:50:27.355 align:middle line:90% So maybe one more question? 00:50:27.355 --> 00:50:28.730 align:middle line:90% I thought I saw somebody-- 00:50:28.730 --> 00:50:29.230 align:middle line:90% yes? 00:50:29.230 --> 00:50:37.180 align:middle line:90% 00:50:37.180 --> 00:50:43.600 align:middle line:84% So I just noticed in your poetry some dictional similarities 00:50:43.600 --> 00:50:46.000 align:middle line:90% to Gary Snyder's poetry. 00:50:46.000 --> 00:50:51.310 align:middle line:84% And I just wonder if you think you were influenced in some way 00:50:51.310 --> 00:50:53.290 align:middle line:90% by Gary Snyder's poetry? 00:50:53.290 --> 00:50:58.460 align:middle line:90% And would you comment on that? 00:50:58.460 --> 00:51:03.562 align:middle line:84% Well, I don't know if this is just me or-- 00:51:03.562 --> 00:51:05.020 align:middle line:84% probably it's not just me, probably 00:51:05.020 --> 00:51:07.000 align:middle line:84% it's anybody who's writing poetry a lot. 00:51:07.000 --> 00:51:10.320 align:middle line:90% 00:51:10.320 --> 00:51:15.600 align:middle line:84% When you are reading a poet who becomes important to you, 00:51:15.600 --> 00:51:22.060 align:middle line:84% of primary importance, it goes beyond reading. 00:51:22.060 --> 00:51:23.470 align:middle line:90% Something else is going on. 00:51:23.470 --> 00:51:29.990 align:middle line:84% And you totally transform by that reading. 00:51:29.990 --> 00:51:33.800 align:middle line:84% Everything is different because of the reading. 00:51:33.800 --> 00:51:35.710 align:middle line:84% Usually, it's a kind of obsession. 00:51:35.710 --> 00:51:37.835 align:middle line:84% You know, you're reading, and reading, and reading, 00:51:37.835 --> 00:51:39.650 align:middle line:84% and re-reading, and so on, and so on. 00:51:39.650 --> 00:51:42.470 align:middle line:84% And so I've been through that with many, many writers 00:51:42.470 --> 00:51:44.090 align:middle line:90% that I've thought were-- 00:51:44.090 --> 00:51:47.840 align:middle line:84% you know, like you get to the point where you think-- 00:51:47.840 --> 00:51:51.410 align:middle line:84% this is the only way anybody could write a poem. 00:51:51.410 --> 00:51:55.730 align:middle line:84% This is-- any poem that isn't like this, forget about it. 00:51:55.730 --> 00:51:57.410 align:middle line:90% It's got to be-- it's like that. 00:51:57.410 --> 00:52:00.600 align:middle line:90% You get to that place. 00:52:00.600 --> 00:52:05.000 align:middle line:84% And so-- so Gary Snyder is someone 00:52:05.000 --> 00:52:08.390 align:middle line:84% that has been important in my life on a lot of levels. 00:52:08.390 --> 00:52:14.270 align:middle line:84% He's been a friend, and a mentor, and person that I know, 00:52:14.270 --> 00:52:17.480 align:middle line:84% and a person who, before I ever met him, 00:52:17.480 --> 00:52:21.470 align:middle line:84% his writing completely changed my whole idea of what 00:52:21.470 --> 00:52:22.550 align:middle line:90% I was doing in my life. 00:52:22.550 --> 00:52:29.430 align:middle line:84% So probably, nobody-- with the exception of Philip Whalen, 00:52:29.430 --> 00:52:31.710 align:middle line:84% who was even more important to me, 00:52:31.710 --> 00:52:34.620 align:middle line:84% with whom I was much closer than I am to Gary-- 00:52:34.620 --> 00:52:35.670 align:middle line:90% but Gary's still going-- 00:52:35.670 --> 00:52:39.910 align:middle line:90% 00:52:39.910 --> 00:52:42.770 align:middle line:84% he-- yes, his work is very, very important to me. 00:52:42.770 --> 00:52:47.120 align:middle line:84% However, that was a long, long time ago. 00:52:47.120 --> 00:52:47.920 align:middle line:90% Right? 00:52:47.920 --> 00:52:52.750 align:middle line:84% So now, I don't read Gary anymore. 00:52:52.750 --> 00:52:55.060 align:middle line:84% And I don't really pay attention to what he writes. 00:52:55.060 --> 00:52:59.320 align:middle line:84% And his writing, now, doesn't have that magic for me 00:52:59.320 --> 00:53:01.250 align:middle line:90% that it had at that time. 00:53:01.250 --> 00:53:05.860 align:middle line:84% So in a way, if you had asked me is my work influenced 00:53:05.860 --> 00:53:08.230 align:middle line:90% by Gary Snyder, I would say no. 00:53:08.230 --> 00:53:10.630 align:middle line:84% And I could list a whole bunch of other writers 00:53:10.630 --> 00:53:13.330 align:middle line:84% that my work is much more influenced by. 00:53:13.330 --> 00:53:18.130 align:middle line:84% However, because of that, that I just told you, 00:53:18.130 --> 00:53:21.460 align:middle line:84% in the early part of my life, there's 00:53:21.460 --> 00:53:26.900 align:middle line:84% no way that Gary's poetry is not in my DNA. 00:53:26.900 --> 00:53:28.540 align:middle line:90% So it comes out somehow. 00:53:28.540 --> 00:53:30.792 align:middle line:84% And if you heard it, I guess, I mean, 00:53:30.792 --> 00:53:32.750 align:middle line:84% I wouldn't have thought that anybody would hear 00:53:32.750 --> 00:53:34.450 align:middle line:90% any Gary Snyder in my poetry. 00:53:34.450 --> 00:53:36.880 align:middle line:84% But if you heard it, I suppose it's there. 00:53:36.880 --> 00:53:39.430 align:middle line:90% I'm not that surprised if it is. 00:53:39.430 --> 00:53:44.020 align:middle line:84% Yeah, I mean, Gary Snyder is enormously important 00:53:44.020 --> 00:53:48.410 align:middle line:84% not only as a poet, but as a cultural figure of our time, 00:53:48.410 --> 00:53:49.300 align:middle line:90% you know? 00:53:49.300 --> 00:53:54.130 align:middle line:84% He's a-- He's a wonderful, amazing person. 00:53:54.130 --> 00:53:54.630 align:middle line:90% All right? 00:53:54.630 --> 00:53:58.380 align:middle line:84% So I'm glad it sounds like Gary Snyder-- 00:53:58.380 --> 00:54:00.830 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:54:00.830 --> 00:54:02.750 align:middle line:90% I-- I would ask-- 00:54:02.750 --> 00:54:04.010 align:middle line:90% one last question, since I-- 00:54:04.010 --> 00:54:06.080 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:54:06.080 --> 00:54:10.910 align:middle line:84% What I heard was a lot of influence from the psalms. 00:54:10.910 --> 00:54:13.740 align:middle line:84% And I wonder-- and it'd been a long time since I think I 00:54:13.740 --> 00:54:14.240 align:middle line:90% read-- 00:54:14.240 --> 00:54:15.500 align:middle line:90% I had been-- 00:54:15.500 --> 00:54:19.460 align:middle line:84% I read one back, pretty much [INAUDIBLE] now. 00:54:19.460 --> 00:54:22.160 align:middle line:84% And I'm wondering at what stage-- 00:54:22.160 --> 00:54:24.200 align:middle line:84% what's the publication relationship 00:54:24.200 --> 00:54:26.930 align:middle line:84% between that and your translations of the psalms? 00:54:26.930 --> 00:54:29.390 align:middle line:90% But I guess more broadly, if-- 00:54:29.390 --> 00:54:32.070 align:middle line:84% at what point you came to the psalms and-- 00:54:32.070 --> 00:54:35.930 align:middle line:84% and really studied them as poetry? 00:54:35.930 --> 00:54:37.760 align:middle line:84% You know, you see what I'm getting at? 00:54:37.760 --> 00:54:40.100 align:middle line:84% Yeah, well, you know-- you know, were there 00:54:40.100 --> 00:54:43.190 align:middle line:84% when I first got hooked on the psalms, right? 00:54:43.190 --> 00:54:45.060 align:middle line:90% It was '96 into 7. 00:54:45.060 --> 00:54:50.497 align:middle line:84% Remember that thing when I got up at the podium and said-- 00:54:50.497 --> 00:54:51.080 align:middle line:90% remember that? 00:54:51.080 --> 00:54:55.970 align:middle line:84% I said-- I threw away my speech, my polite-- 00:54:55.970 --> 00:54:59.840 align:middle line:84% what do you call it-- ecumenical speech. 00:54:59.840 --> 00:55:05.800 align:middle line:84% And I said my practice is sitting in silence. 00:55:05.800 --> 00:55:09.820 align:middle line:84% Your practice is reciting psalms seven times 00:55:09.820 --> 00:55:12.640 align:middle line:84% a day-- is that what it is-- seven times a day. 00:55:12.640 --> 00:55:14.830 align:middle line:84% And so I'm going there, practicing with you. 00:55:14.830 --> 00:55:20.080 align:middle line:84% And today, I'm reading Psalm 137, which has a line in it 00:55:20.080 --> 00:55:23.422 align:middle line:84% like, oh God, we hate them so much, 00:55:23.422 --> 00:55:25.630 align:middle line:84% we hope that you will take the heads of their babies, 00:55:25.630 --> 00:55:27.370 align:middle line:84% and bash them out against the rocks, 00:55:27.370 --> 00:55:30.460 align:middle line:84% and make their brains spill all over the rocks. 00:55:30.460 --> 00:55:32.290 align:middle line:84% And I said-- and this is your practice? 00:55:32.290 --> 00:55:32.790 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:55:32.790 --> 00:55:36.817 align:middle line:84% [INAUDIBLE] I said-- you guys are pretty holy people. 00:55:36.817 --> 00:55:39.400 align:middle line:84% And I really respect what you're doing, but I do not get this. 00:55:39.400 --> 00:55:40.900 align:middle line:90% Can somebody please explain it? 00:55:40.900 --> 00:55:42.220 align:middle line:90% And then I sat down. 00:55:42.220 --> 00:55:43.030 align:middle line:90% Remember that? 00:55:43.030 --> 00:55:43.960 align:middle line:90% Yes. 00:55:43.960 --> 00:55:45.400 align:middle line:84% That's when I got into the psalms. 00:55:45.400 --> 00:55:47.630 align:middle line:90% Because I thought to myself-- 00:55:47.630 --> 00:55:48.400 align:middle line:90% this is weird. 00:55:48.400 --> 00:55:49.340 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:55:49.340 --> 00:55:50.590 align:middle line:90% You know? 00:55:50.590 --> 00:55:53.680 align:middle line:84% I mean, I didn't quite, actually, 00:55:53.680 --> 00:55:57.190 align:middle line:84% understand at the time that the psalms are also 00:55:57.190 --> 00:55:59.560 align:middle line:84% the backbone of the entire Jewish liturgy, as well. 00:55:59.560 --> 00:56:01.060 align:middle line:84% You'd think I would have known that, 00:56:01.060 --> 00:56:03.640 align:middle line:90% but I didn't quite get that. 00:56:03.640 --> 00:56:08.320 align:middle line:84% But not the way they are in the Catholic monastic [INAUDIBLE],, 00:56:08.320 --> 00:56:11.560 align:middle line:84% where they recite them every single day, seven times a day. 00:56:11.560 --> 00:56:15.460 align:middle line:84% So that's made me think-- and I-- like, I really did. 00:56:15.460 --> 00:56:20.710 align:middle line:84% I was really very moved by the practice [INAUDIBLE] 00:56:20.710 --> 00:56:22.090 align:middle line:90% by the brothers. 00:56:22.090 --> 00:56:25.390 align:middle line:84% So I wanted to find out what are these guys-- 00:56:25.390 --> 00:56:27.140 align:middle line:84% how does that-- this figure for them? 00:56:27.140 --> 00:56:29.680 align:middle line:84% So that's why I got into the psalms. 00:56:29.680 --> 00:56:31.190 align:middle line:90% So that was 1996. 00:56:31.190 --> 00:56:37.940 align:middle line:84% That book was published in 2002, this one in 2005, 00:56:37.940 --> 00:56:40.760 align:middle line:84% which means that it was written several years 00:56:40.760 --> 00:56:42.578 align:middle line:90% before those dates. 00:56:42.578 --> 00:56:43.620 align:middle line:90% But I think you're right. 00:56:43.620 --> 00:56:49.880 align:middle line:84% I think the same sort of tone of voice, the same sensibility, 00:56:49.880 --> 00:56:52.250 align:middle line:90% is in I Was Blown Back. 00:56:52.250 --> 00:56:54.530 align:middle line:90% I think that's right. 00:56:54.530 --> 00:56:56.060 align:middle line:84% Because when I was doing the psalms, 00:56:56.060 --> 00:56:58.310 align:middle line:84% I realized that I went to the Hebrew. 00:56:58.310 --> 00:57:01.055 align:middle line:90% 00:57:01.055 --> 00:57:05.310 align:middle line:84% And the Hebrew is really different from King James' 00:57:05.310 --> 00:57:07.840 align:middle line:84% version, which was not translated from Hebrew. 00:57:07.840 --> 00:57:12.280 align:middle line:84% It wasn't-- it was translated from Greek or Latin. 00:57:12.280 --> 00:57:17.566 align:middle line:84% So in Hebrew, you get a very different sense-- 00:57:17.566 --> 00:57:20.800 align:middle line:84% a feeling for what these poems sound like 00:57:20.800 --> 00:57:23.820 align:middle line:84% and what the relationship that they're talking about is. 00:57:23.820 --> 00:57:28.760 align:middle line:84% And there's-- there's simplicity, intimacy, 00:57:28.760 --> 00:57:37.110 align:middle line:84% and tremendous darkness and mystery which I think 00:57:37.110 --> 00:57:40.170 align:middle line:90% you'd find in both psalms-- 00:57:40.170 --> 00:57:43.630 align:middle line:84% that I might [INAUDIBLE] Celan in this book. 00:57:43.630 --> 00:57:46.720 align:middle line:84% So yeah, and Paul-- so you could see where Paul Celan is also 00:57:46.720 --> 00:57:48.210 align:middle line:90% mixed up in that. 00:57:48.210 --> 00:57:50.475 align:middle line:84% Paul Celan was also a great reader of psalms 00:57:50.475 --> 00:57:56.545 align:middle line:84% and refurbished the psalms in his [INAUDIBLE] in his poems. 00:57:56.545 --> 00:58:00.670 align:middle line:84% I-- I really-- it was wonderful to be in that space. 00:58:00.670 --> 00:58:05.289 align:middle line:84% It was years that I was going along in that way. 00:58:05.289 --> 00:58:07.321 align:middle line:90% But then I got over it. 00:58:07.321 --> 00:58:09.730 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:58:09.730 --> 00:58:12.142 align:middle line:84% Well, thank you very much for coming. 00:58:12.142 --> 00:58:13.100 align:middle line:90% Thanks to the audience. 00:58:13.100 --> 00:58:16.383 align:middle line:90% [APPLAUSE] 00:58:16.383 --> 00:58:20.022 align:middle line:90% 00:58:20.022 --> 00:58:21.730 align:middle line:84% They're both for sale and I'm sure Norman 00:58:21.730 --> 00:58:23.890 align:middle line:90% would be happy to sign them. 00:58:23.890 --> 00:58:26.800 align:middle line:90% [INTERPOSING VOICES]