WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.250 align:middle line:84% And I should say thank you, Kate, 00:00:02.250 --> 00:00:04.160 align:middle line:90% for the beautiful introduction. 00:00:04.160 --> 00:00:07.560 align:middle line:90% My heart was thumping, you know? 00:00:07.560 --> 00:00:09.870 align:middle line:84% Because I hadn't struck that Wonder Woman pose. 00:00:09.870 --> 00:00:13.710 align:middle line:90% 00:00:13.710 --> 00:00:16.053 align:middle line:90% So if anybody has any questions. 00:00:16.053 --> 00:00:17.470 align:middle line:84% Yeah, if anyone has any questions, 00:00:17.470 --> 00:00:20.370 align:middle line:84% I'll just come to you and you can just raise your hand. 00:00:20.370 --> 00:00:26.230 align:middle line:90% 00:00:26.230 --> 00:00:27.400 align:middle line:90% Maybe I stopped too soon. 00:00:27.400 --> 00:00:38.390 align:middle line:90% 00:00:38.390 --> 00:00:41.535 align:middle line:84% Can you say something about the pacing, I guess? 00:00:41.535 --> 00:00:43.160 align:middle line:84% I'm not sure I can explain what I mean, 00:00:43.160 --> 00:00:50.640 align:middle line:84% but the intensity picks up in a really nice way, 00:00:50.640 --> 00:00:51.740 align:middle line:90% it seems to me. 00:00:51.740 --> 00:00:54.860 align:middle line:84% The beginning is-- feels a little desultory, 00:00:54.860 --> 00:00:58.180 align:middle line:84% and then things get wound tighter and tighter. 00:00:58.180 --> 00:01:00.020 align:middle line:90% I wonder if that's why-- 00:01:00.020 --> 00:01:03.590 align:middle line:84% Well, I think it's like a piece that does-- 00:01:03.590 --> 00:01:06.410 align:middle line:84% it goes back in time, and then comes-- 00:01:06.410 --> 00:01:09.920 align:middle line:84% it keeps spiraling back and forth as it-- 00:01:09.920 --> 00:01:12.800 align:middle line:90% 00:01:12.800 --> 00:01:15.170 align:middle line:90% I don't know. 00:01:15.170 --> 00:01:17.300 align:middle line:84% It's all very much by the seat of my pants. 00:01:17.300 --> 00:01:19.820 align:middle line:90% 00:01:19.820 --> 00:01:21.620 align:middle line:84% It just has to feel right, you know? 00:01:21.620 --> 00:01:32.370 align:middle line:90% 00:01:32.370 --> 00:01:35.490 align:middle line:84% I look on that same theme, I mean you are-- 00:01:35.490 --> 00:01:37.560 align:middle line:84% you write short stories and novels, 00:01:37.560 --> 00:01:40.965 align:middle line:84% and I'm just wondering just in terms of pacing and the kind 00:01:40.965 --> 00:01:42.090 align:middle line:90% of-- 00:01:42.090 --> 00:01:45.330 align:middle line:84% how you go about the writing process itself. 00:01:45.330 --> 00:01:48.570 align:middle line:84% Does it differ between novels and short stories? 00:01:48.570 --> 00:01:53.120 align:middle line:90% 00:01:53.120 --> 00:01:59.930 align:middle line:84% Well, this started out as a very long short story, and actually 00:01:59.930 --> 00:02:07.940 align:middle line:84% the editor of Cutthroat here, and she kindly took 00:02:07.940 --> 00:02:12.650 align:middle line:84% this very long story and published it, and then later 00:02:12.650 --> 00:02:16.880 align:middle line:84% on I showed the story to Bloomsbury, 00:02:16.880 --> 00:02:18.890 align:middle line:90% Nancy Miller at Bloomsbury. 00:02:18.890 --> 00:02:22.220 align:middle line:84% And she said, "Well, I love this story, 00:02:22.220 --> 00:02:24.890 align:middle line:84% but I think it really needs to be a novel." 00:02:24.890 --> 00:02:30.020 align:middle line:84% And it was the case when I was writing it 00:02:30.020 --> 00:02:33.290 align:middle line:84% that I had kept taking things out of it, 00:02:33.290 --> 00:02:36.500 align:middle line:84% because I wanted it to be a short story. 00:02:36.500 --> 00:02:39.960 align:middle line:90% 00:02:39.960 --> 00:02:42.710 align:middle line:84% But I thought, well, there probably was a reason 00:02:42.710 --> 00:02:45.110 align:middle line:90% that I kept making it bigger. 00:02:45.110 --> 00:02:52.040 align:middle line:84% And I guess in making it into a novel it was like I really 00:02:52.040 --> 00:03:01.550 align:middle line:84% wanted to explore more of the consequences of the choices 00:03:01.550 --> 00:03:04.460 align:middle line:90% that the characters made. 00:03:04.460 --> 00:03:08.360 align:middle line:84% The two women in this story, the two young women, 00:03:08.360 --> 00:03:10.520 align:middle line:84% end up having very different lives. 00:03:10.520 --> 00:03:14.510 align:middle line:84% And they both get to have something and not 00:03:14.510 --> 00:03:15.710 align:middle line:90% have something. 00:03:15.710 --> 00:03:23.210 align:middle line:84% And Edith Wharton has a nice little short piece 00:03:23.210 --> 00:03:26.180 align:middle line:84% about what makes a difference between a novel 00:03:26.180 --> 00:03:26.990 align:middle line:90% and a short story. 00:03:26.990 --> 00:03:30.050 align:middle line:84% And I think she just says, it's like exploring the character 00:03:30.050 --> 00:03:30.950 align:middle line:90% over time. 00:03:30.950 --> 00:03:35.240 align:middle line:84% And that's what I really had the opportunity 00:03:35.240 --> 00:03:39.030 align:middle line:90% to do when I changed it from a-- 00:03:39.030 --> 00:03:43.220 align:middle line:84% I think it ended up being like a 40 page short story when it 00:03:43.220 --> 00:03:47.540 align:middle line:90% was published into the novel. 00:03:47.540 --> 00:03:49.790 align:middle line:90% And I got-- 00:03:49.790 --> 00:03:52.746 align:middle line:90% I had the chance also to-- 00:03:52.746 --> 00:03:56.000 align:middle line:84% in the original story there had been more of a focus 00:03:56.000 --> 00:03:59.570 align:middle line:84% on the female friendship, and because I really 00:03:59.570 --> 00:04:02.120 align:middle line:84% was interested in exploring more the consequences 00:04:02.120 --> 00:04:05.000 align:middle line:84% of these choices over time then I 00:04:05.000 --> 00:04:09.320 align:middle line:84% discovered how much the story was about-- 00:04:09.320 --> 00:04:11.720 align:middle line:90% it really is Charlotte's story. 00:04:11.720 --> 00:04:16.250 align:middle line:84% It ends up being primarily her story 00:04:16.250 --> 00:04:21.140 align:middle line:84% and it becomes more a story too about her marriage, 00:04:21.140 --> 00:04:26.840 align:middle line:84% and about how some of the choices 00:04:26.840 --> 00:04:30.540 align:middle line:90% she made distorted her life. 00:04:30.540 --> 00:04:36.360 align:middle line:84% And so there's a reckoning to be made. 00:04:36.360 --> 00:04:39.920 align:middle line:84% But in terms of just working, I think 00:04:39.920 --> 00:04:42.470 align:middle line:84% that I work in a very similar way, 00:04:42.470 --> 00:04:45.260 align:middle line:84% and I'm just always revising and trying to figure out 00:04:45.260 --> 00:04:48.980 align:middle line:90% what else do I need to know? 00:04:48.980 --> 00:04:54.740 align:middle line:84% What other feature of this character's life 00:04:54.740 --> 00:04:58.100 align:middle line:84% do I have to explore further, and I always-- 00:04:58.100 --> 00:05:02.030 align:middle line:84% I like that phrase that Virginia Woolf used, like tunneling. 00:05:02.030 --> 00:05:04.700 align:middle line:84% That just trying to get closer and closer 00:05:04.700 --> 00:05:07.100 align:middle line:90% to the truth of the character. 00:05:07.100 --> 00:05:12.020 align:middle line:90% And that's it for me. 00:05:12.020 --> 00:05:15.320 align:middle line:84% And then I read the stuff aloud all the time, 00:05:15.320 --> 00:05:17.090 align:middle line:84% because I'm really interested in how 00:05:17.090 --> 00:05:19.490 align:middle line:84% it sounds, and it has to sound right, 00:05:19.490 --> 00:05:21.680 align:middle line:90% and it has to sound right-- 00:05:21.680 --> 00:05:23.780 align:middle line:84% each word has to sound right, and then 00:05:23.780 --> 00:05:25.850 align:middle line:90% each sentence and paragraph. 00:05:25.850 --> 00:05:30.950 align:middle line:84% And going back to Kenny's question earlier, 00:05:30.950 --> 00:05:34.580 align:middle line:84% I mean it's like the pacing has to sound right. 00:05:34.580 --> 00:05:39.680 align:middle line:84% So one section is doing this, and then there's 00:05:39.680 --> 00:05:42.530 align:middle line:90% maybe picking up the pacing. 00:05:42.530 --> 00:05:49.820 align:middle line:84% And so with a novel, it is a bit more-- 00:05:49.820 --> 00:05:54.440 align:middle line:84% I think it's a bit more like you're dealing with a symphony 00:05:54.440 --> 00:05:56.870 align:middle line:84% or something, where you have different parts that 00:05:56.870 --> 00:06:01.580 align:middle line:84% have to have more parts, and you have 00:06:01.580 --> 00:06:04.520 align:middle line:84% to probably have more changes in pacing 00:06:04.520 --> 00:06:08.000 align:middle line:90% than you do in the short story. 00:06:08.000 --> 00:06:10.770 align:middle line:84% I don't think one is easier than the other. 00:06:10.770 --> 00:06:14.900 align:middle line:84% You have more stuff you have to control with a novel. 00:06:14.900 --> 00:06:18.350 align:middle line:84% It's kind of like sometimes, it gets heavy. 00:06:18.350 --> 00:06:20.990 align:middle line:90% 00:06:20.990 --> 00:06:28.730 align:middle line:84% So well, because I've read both the short story and the novel, 00:06:28.730 --> 00:06:31.610 align:middle line:84% it's interesting because when the short story first 00:06:31.610 --> 00:06:35.470 align:middle line:84% came in with the pacing at the beginning of it was too slow. 00:06:35.470 --> 00:06:38.900 align:middle line:84% We said this is like a novel, and that was really 00:06:38.900 --> 00:06:43.310 align:middle line:84% where we did most of the editing was in the beginning to get 00:06:43.310 --> 00:06:44.960 align:middle line:90% into the story more quickly. 00:06:44.960 --> 00:06:46.880 align:middle line:84% But then the thing that was interesting to me 00:06:46.880 --> 00:06:50.750 align:middle line:84% when I read the novel was, in the short story the reveal 00:06:50.750 --> 00:06:54.320 align:middle line:84% that she slept with her girlfriend's boyfriend 00:06:54.320 --> 00:06:57.920 align:middle line:84% comes kind of late in the story, whereas in the novel 00:06:57.920 --> 00:06:59.090 align:middle line:90% it comes in much earlier. 00:06:59.090 --> 00:07:00.090 align:middle line:90% Very early. 00:07:00.090 --> 00:07:00.590 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:07:00.590 --> 00:07:02.720 align:middle line:84% So I was wondering if you might want to comment 00:07:02.720 --> 00:07:03.930 align:middle line:90% on that specifically. 00:07:03.930 --> 00:07:05.270 align:middle line:90% Yes. 00:07:05.270 --> 00:07:10.910 align:middle line:84% Yeah, good question, because that is something that-- 00:07:10.910 --> 00:07:14.750 align:middle line:84% I mean, you're going to be spending this whole novel 00:07:14.750 --> 00:07:15.740 align:middle line:90% with this person. 00:07:15.740 --> 00:07:18.980 align:middle line:84% She's telling you her side of this story 00:07:18.980 --> 00:07:27.300 align:middle line:84% and really trying to understand some things about her life. 00:07:27.300 --> 00:07:30.140 align:middle line:90% And so right away, she-- 00:07:30.140 --> 00:07:32.450 align:middle line:84% I mean in the third paragraph or so, 00:07:32.450 --> 00:07:34.550 align:middle line:90% she says I betrayed my friend. 00:07:34.550 --> 00:07:37.670 align:middle line:84% And then a couple of pages later she tells you, 00:07:37.670 --> 00:07:41.510 align:middle line:84% I slept with my friend's boyfriend, 00:07:41.510 --> 00:07:44.210 align:middle line:90% who ended up being her husband. 00:07:44.210 --> 00:07:46.980 align:middle line:84% And this was like this horrible thing. 00:07:46.980 --> 00:07:48.610 align:middle line:90% And was ridiculous. 00:07:48.610 --> 00:07:53.060 align:middle line:84% And so you don't have-- you're not waiting 00:07:53.060 --> 00:07:55.220 align:middle line:90% to find that information out. 00:07:55.220 --> 00:07:58.220 align:middle line:84% It's like, I want to just kind of get that out of there, 00:07:58.220 --> 00:08:02.120 align:middle line:84% get it out, and then the story is 00:08:02.120 --> 00:08:05.240 align:middle line:90% about exploring other things. 00:08:05.240 --> 00:08:06.530 align:middle line:90% So you're not waiting. 00:08:06.530 --> 00:08:10.550 align:middle line:84% There's other suspense in the story. 00:08:10.550 --> 00:08:13.460 align:middle line:84% And I'm happy to say that many people have told me they've 00:08:13.460 --> 00:08:17.690 align:middle line:90% stayed up reading the book. 00:08:17.690 --> 00:08:19.370 align:middle line:90% So there is suspense. 00:08:19.370 --> 00:08:22.790 align:middle line:84% And I think suspense is such an interesting thing, 00:08:22.790 --> 00:08:26.900 align:middle line:84% because there's a book that I love by Joan Silber 00:08:26.900 --> 00:08:30.110 align:middle line:84% and I've taught this book in a suspense seminar I 00:08:30.110 --> 00:08:32.630 align:middle line:90% did with the graduate students. 00:08:32.630 --> 00:08:35.520 align:middle line:90% It's just very low key book. 00:08:35.520 --> 00:08:37.970 align:middle line:84% It's called Household Words, and she kind of 00:08:37.970 --> 00:08:40.100 align:middle line:84% laughed when I told her that I had 00:08:40.100 --> 00:08:44.150 align:middle line:84% taught that book in the class, but there isn't anything. 00:08:44.150 --> 00:08:46.160 align:middle line:90% It's a story of a life. 00:08:46.160 --> 00:08:48.710 align:middle line:84% And just it's life and how it unfolds. 00:08:48.710 --> 00:08:54.290 align:middle line:84% But just a story of a life can be very suspenseful. 00:08:54.290 --> 00:08:57.530 align:middle line:84% Because it's like you're just churning up what is it 00:08:57.530 --> 00:09:00.080 align:middle line:84% that makes this person do the next thing. 00:09:00.080 --> 00:09:03.980 align:middle line:84% We're constantly making these negotiations in life, 00:09:03.980 --> 00:09:08.130 align:middle line:84% and always there are these consequences. 00:09:08.130 --> 00:09:12.530 align:middle line:84% And that's a wonderful, wonderful book, by the way. 00:09:12.530 --> 00:09:13.310 align:middle line:90% Household Words. 00:09:13.310 --> 00:09:14.910 align:middle line:90% I just-- I love that book. 00:09:14.910 --> 00:09:20.790 align:middle line:84% And I love the Lydia Davis book, The End of the Story, 00:09:20.790 --> 00:09:23.480 align:middle line:84% which is just a story about a woman 00:09:23.480 --> 00:09:26.330 align:middle line:84% thinking about how this relationship ended. 00:09:26.330 --> 00:09:28.970 align:middle line:84% And you know right in the beginning 00:09:28.970 --> 00:09:32.240 align:middle line:84% that the relationship ended, but there's a lot of suspense, 00:09:32.240 --> 00:09:36.590 align:middle line:84% because just the investigation of the human heart 00:09:36.590 --> 00:09:38.690 align:middle line:90% is filled with suspense. 00:09:38.690 --> 00:09:40.490 align:middle line:90% So it's fascinating. 00:09:40.490 --> 00:09:43.768 align:middle line:90% 00:09:43.768 --> 00:09:45.560 align:middle line:84% I think we probably have time for one more, 00:09:45.560 --> 00:09:47.220 align:middle line:84% if someone has one more question. 00:09:47.220 --> 00:09:52.350 align:middle line:90% 00:09:52.350 --> 00:09:54.420 align:middle line:84% Thanks so much for reading to us. 00:09:54.420 --> 00:09:55.250 align:middle line:90% That's great. 00:09:55.250 --> 00:09:57.120 align:middle line:84% I wonder if you could talk a little bit. 00:09:57.120 --> 00:10:00.400 align:middle line:84% You're a writer in Tucson, a professor 00:10:00.400 --> 00:10:02.080 align:middle line:84% at the University of Arizona writing 00:10:02.080 --> 00:10:05.766 align:middle line:84% about the writer in Tucson, a professor at the University 00:10:05.766 --> 00:10:06.553 align:middle line:90% of Arizona. 00:10:06.553 --> 00:10:08.470 align:middle line:84% I wonder if you could talk about autobiography 00:10:08.470 --> 00:10:10.090 align:middle line:84% and what you explore and what you're 00:10:10.090 --> 00:10:12.880 align:middle line:84% reluctant to incorporate into the work, 00:10:12.880 --> 00:10:15.520 align:middle line:90% and how do you negotiate that? 00:10:15.520 --> 00:10:16.400 align:middle line:90% Yes. 00:10:16.400 --> 00:10:16.900 align:middle line:90% Well. 00:10:16.900 --> 00:10:19.600 align:middle line:90% 00:10:19.600 --> 00:10:22.660 align:middle line:84% I wrote a book before that was set 00:10:22.660 --> 00:10:28.060 align:middle line:84% sort of in a fictional place that was like Tucson, 00:10:28.060 --> 00:10:30.460 align:middle line:84% and there were some people who taught 00:10:30.460 --> 00:10:33.010 align:middle line:84% at a place that was like the University of Arizona, 00:10:33.010 --> 00:10:34.840 align:middle line:84% and people said, oh, why didn't you 00:10:34.840 --> 00:10:37.910 align:middle line:84% just make it the University of Arizona and make it Tucson? 00:10:37.910 --> 00:10:40.750 align:middle line:84% And I can't even remember now what the name of the town was. 00:10:40.750 --> 00:10:41.740 align:middle line:90% Seca, or something. 00:10:41.740 --> 00:10:43.090 align:middle line:90% Maybe like Dry, you know? 00:10:43.090 --> 00:10:45.790 align:middle line:90% 00:10:45.790 --> 00:10:51.790 align:middle line:84% And so I just thought, oh, I'm just-- 00:10:51.790 --> 00:10:57.850 align:middle line:84% it's fiction, and like I'm like totally-- 00:10:57.850 --> 00:11:00.740 align:middle line:84% for me like fiction and nonfiction are very different. 00:11:00.740 --> 00:11:07.420 align:middle line:84% And so I'm in my fiction mode, and there isn't-- 00:11:07.420 --> 00:11:10.420 align:middle line:84% it's basically like there's a department chair, 00:11:10.420 --> 00:11:13.030 align:middle line:84% but he's not the department chair 00:11:13.030 --> 00:11:15.850 align:middle line:90% at this actual university. 00:11:15.850 --> 00:11:19.090 align:middle line:90% He's like a fictional character. 00:11:19.090 --> 00:11:24.640 align:middle line:84% And there are some people who are professors 00:11:24.640 --> 00:11:28.750 align:middle line:84% and administrative people who show up here and there, 00:11:28.750 --> 00:11:30.880 align:middle line:90% and they're all made up. 00:11:30.880 --> 00:11:38.260 align:middle line:84% But they're all, I think, it's kind of like any job. 00:11:38.260 --> 00:11:42.380 align:middle line:84% That they're-- I think occupations are interesting. 00:11:42.380 --> 00:11:44.980 align:middle line:90% So I know about this occupation. 00:11:44.980 --> 00:11:49.240 align:middle line:84% So I show some different facets of this occupation, 00:11:49.240 --> 00:11:55.360 align:middle line:84% and plug in fictional versions of professors and so on. 00:11:55.360 --> 00:12:00.010 align:middle line:84% And there's a fictional novel contest 00:12:00.010 --> 00:12:04.270 align:middle line:84% that's being held by the University of Arizona. 00:12:04.270 --> 00:12:11.270 align:middle line:84% And I just thought, it's just going to be a story. 00:12:11.270 --> 00:12:12.632 align:middle line:90% So I don't know. 00:12:12.632 --> 00:12:13.840 align:middle line:90% Is that a good enough answer? 00:12:13.840 --> 00:12:17.830 align:middle line:90% 00:12:17.830 --> 00:12:20.060 align:middle line:90% That seems like a great spot. 00:12:20.060 --> 00:12:22.810 align:middle line:84% I think that there are books for sale, 00:12:22.810 --> 00:12:26.860 align:middle line:84% so I mean if you have access to afford books in this world, 00:12:26.860 --> 00:12:28.960 align:middle line:84% you should buy these because they're 20% off. 00:12:28.960 --> 00:12:32.890 align:middle line:90% And we'll sign them, possibly. 00:12:32.890 --> 00:12:36.910 align:middle line:84% And you should all come out to the Natalie Diaz reading 00:12:36.910 --> 00:12:39.018 align:middle line:90% on the 2nd of April. 00:12:39.018 --> 00:12:40.810 align:middle line:84% Thank you all for coming, and another round 00:12:40.810 --> 00:12:42.850 align:middle line:90% of applause for Elizabeth. 00:12:42.850 --> 00:12:44.100 align:middle line:90% [APPLAUSE]