WEBVTT

00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.750 align:middle line:90%


00:00:02.750 --> 00:00:03.710 align:middle line:90%
I'll start.

00:00:03.710 --> 00:00:05.270 align:middle line:90%
Sure.

00:00:05.270 --> 00:00:07.910 align:middle line:84%
Tell us how you pick who
you're going to translate

00:00:07.910 --> 00:00:09.590 align:middle line:84%
and how that
influences your work.

00:00:09.590 --> 00:00:18.240 align:middle line:90%


00:00:18.240 --> 00:00:19.090 align:middle line:90%
I'm trying to think.

00:00:19.090 --> 00:00:30.300 align:middle line:84%
In the case of Galo's book,
I had a friendship with him,

00:00:30.300 --> 00:00:30.870 align:middle line:90%
I guess.

00:00:30.870 --> 00:00:33.540 align:middle line:90%


00:00:33.540 --> 00:00:36.580 align:middle line:84%
I had read his book, and
he knew about my work.

00:00:36.580 --> 00:00:38.790 align:middle line:84%
And he had published
some of my work in Chile.

00:00:38.790 --> 00:00:45.150 align:middle line:84%
And I guess one of the sort of
criteria that I've developed

00:00:45.150 --> 00:00:47.940 align:middle line:84%
is that I want to work
with somebody who I like,

00:00:47.940 --> 00:00:49.500 align:middle line:84%
and who I think
is a nice person,

00:00:49.500 --> 00:00:53.430 align:middle line:84%
and who I think is not going
to make me feel as if I'm being

00:00:53.430 --> 00:00:58.020 align:middle line:84%
annoying when I write to them
15 times a day with questions

00:00:58.020 --> 00:01:03.630 align:middle line:84%
about the inflection and a word
that they wrote 14 years ago

00:01:03.630 --> 00:01:05.760 align:middle line:84%
and can't even remember
what they were doing.

00:01:05.760 --> 00:01:06.990 align:middle line:90%
[LAUGHTER]

00:01:06.990 --> 00:01:13.470 align:middle line:90%
And so that is part of it.

00:01:13.470 --> 00:01:20.160 align:middle line:84%
With Raúl Zurita, I had
been asked by a very small

00:01:20.160 --> 00:01:20.910 align:middle line:90%
magazine--

00:01:20.910 --> 00:01:22.285 align:middle line:84%
I've told this
story a few times.

00:01:22.285 --> 00:01:26.130 align:middle line:84%
But I was asked maybe in 2007
to translate a few of his poems

00:01:26.130 --> 00:01:28.110 align:middle line:90%
for a very small journal.

00:01:28.110 --> 00:01:30.250 align:middle line:90%
And he didn't know me.

00:01:30.250 --> 00:01:32.310 align:middle line:90%
I didn't know him.

00:01:32.310 --> 00:01:35.640 align:middle line:84%
And I wrote to him
with a question

00:01:35.640 --> 00:01:38.640 align:middle line:90%
out of the blue about the poem.

00:01:38.640 --> 00:01:40.140 align:middle line:84%
And then he wrote
back the next day,

00:01:40.140 --> 00:01:43.710 align:middle line:84%
and he had changed the poem
in response to my question.

00:01:43.710 --> 00:01:45.360 align:middle line:90%
[LAUGHTER]

00:01:45.360 --> 00:01:47.640 align:middle line:84%
And at that point, I
asked him if he had a book

00:01:47.640 --> 00:01:49.710 align:middle line:90%
that he wanted translated.

00:01:49.710 --> 00:01:52.575 align:middle line:84%
And that was how that
relationship started.

00:01:52.575 --> 00:01:57.120 align:middle line:90%


00:01:57.120 --> 00:02:00.478 align:middle line:84%
And again, I think
that criteria--

00:02:00.478 --> 00:02:01.020 align:middle line:90%
I don't know.

00:02:01.020 --> 00:02:02.880 align:middle line:84%
Maybe through my
relationship with Raúl,

00:02:02.880 --> 00:02:05.250 align:middle line:84%
and then maybe through dealing
with writers who are not

00:02:05.250 --> 00:02:09.570 align:middle line:84%
as accommodating and easy
to work with-- with Raúl,

00:02:09.570 --> 00:02:11.340 align:middle line:90%
it was a very--

00:02:11.340 --> 00:02:13.920 align:middle line:84%
so in The Country of
Planks, for instance,

00:02:13.920 --> 00:02:17.610 align:middle line:84%
it's a book that's filled
with historical references.

00:02:17.610 --> 00:02:24.870 align:middle line:84%
And I had to spend a lot of time
asking him a lot of questions.

00:02:24.870 --> 00:02:26.710 align:middle line:90%
He's trained as an engineer.

00:02:26.710 --> 00:02:31.050 align:middle line:84%
And one scene in the book has
a very complicated description

00:02:31.050 --> 00:02:32.850 align:middle line:90%
of bridges.

00:02:32.850 --> 00:02:37.140 align:middle line:84%
And at some point, he drew
me designs of the bridges.

00:02:37.140 --> 00:02:41.430 align:middle line:84%
And so those kinds
of little details

00:02:41.430 --> 00:02:45.180 align:middle line:84%
have been really important
to how the translation

00:02:45.180 --> 00:02:47.070 align:middle line:90%
work has happened.

00:02:47.070 --> 00:02:49.620 align:middle line:90%


00:02:49.620 --> 00:02:50.420 align:middle line:90%
Great.

00:02:50.420 --> 00:02:50.920 align:middle line:90%
Thank you.

00:02:50.920 --> 00:02:51.910 align:middle line:90%
Sure.

00:02:51.910 --> 00:02:52.976 align:middle line:90%
More questions?

00:02:52.976 --> 00:02:56.938 align:middle line:90%


00:02:56.938 --> 00:02:57.980 align:middle line:90%
It's a very bright light.

00:02:57.980 --> 00:03:05.610 align:middle line:90%


00:03:05.610 --> 00:03:10.170 align:middle line:84%
Well, one has to be struck, of
course, by your powerful use

00:03:10.170 --> 00:03:11.100 align:middle line:90%
of repetition.

00:03:11.100 --> 00:03:15.510 align:middle line:84%
And I found myself
thinking of, I think--

00:03:15.510 --> 00:03:19.800 align:middle line:84%
isn't it Adorno's famous comment
that after Auschwitz there

00:03:19.800 --> 00:03:21.120 align:middle line:90%
cannot be poetry.

00:03:21.120 --> 00:03:24.600 align:middle line:84%
And I wondered if
that use of repetition

00:03:24.600 --> 00:03:28.060 align:middle line:90%
is in a way in your poetry--

00:03:28.060 --> 00:03:30.060 align:middle line:84%
I don't agree with
Adorno's statement.

00:03:30.060 --> 00:03:33.690 align:middle line:84%
Your poetry demonstrates it,
among many, many other people.

00:03:33.690 --> 00:03:36.270 align:middle line:84%
But I found myself
thinking of that

00:03:36.270 --> 00:03:41.130 align:middle line:84%
and wondering if, in a
way, it is that use of--

00:03:41.130 --> 00:03:42.990 align:middle line:84%
I'm not going to find
the Greek term for it.

00:03:42.990 --> 00:03:49.580 align:middle line:84%
But use of repetition is in
a way an emphatic statement.

00:03:49.580 --> 00:03:51.030 align:middle line:90%
There's not metaphor here.

00:03:51.030 --> 00:03:53.010 align:middle line:90%
There's not-- it is what it is.

00:03:53.010 --> 00:03:56.140 align:middle line:90%
That continual tautology.

00:03:56.140 --> 00:04:00.670 align:middle line:84%
And I don't know if you
would just speak to it.

00:04:00.670 --> 00:04:01.210 align:middle line:90%
I could try.

00:04:01.210 --> 00:04:05.050 align:middle line:90%
[LAUGHTER]

00:04:05.050 --> 00:04:07.750 align:middle line:84%
Yeah, I mean, I think at
the end of your statement,

00:04:07.750 --> 00:04:10.900 align:middle line:84%
I think that is
probably the closest--

00:04:10.900 --> 00:04:13.120 align:middle line:84%
you probably answered
it in a certain way.

00:04:13.120 --> 00:04:15.537 align:middle line:90%


00:04:15.537 --> 00:04:17.079 align:middle line:84%
I mean, I think
there's a lot of ways

00:04:17.079 --> 00:04:19.510 align:middle line:84%
of answering the
idea that there can't

00:04:19.510 --> 00:04:21.880 align:middle line:90%
be poetry after Auschwitz.

00:04:21.880 --> 00:04:27.310 align:middle line:84%
But I think one
answer to that is

00:04:27.310 --> 00:04:33.040 align:middle line:84%
to reconceive of metaphor and
literalism in a certain way.

00:04:33.040 --> 00:04:36.170 align:middle line:84%
And maybe that's in some of the
work that I have been doing,

00:04:36.170 --> 00:04:36.670 align:middle line:90%
is--

00:04:36.670 --> 00:04:39.770 align:middle line:90%


00:04:39.770 --> 00:04:42.020 align:middle line:84%
I don't know, trying to
be as literal as possible,

00:04:42.020 --> 00:04:43.730 align:middle line:90%
in a certain way.

00:04:43.730 --> 00:04:48.560 align:middle line:84%
Trying to-- I don't want
to use the word hide,

00:04:48.560 --> 00:04:53.165 align:middle line:90%
but trying to not--

00:04:53.165 --> 00:04:56.180 align:middle line:90%


00:04:56.180 --> 00:04:57.230 align:middle line:90%
I'll just say it.

00:04:57.230 --> 00:04:59.060 align:middle line:84%
Trying to not hide
behind a metaphor

00:04:59.060 --> 00:05:03.810 align:middle line:84%
and trying to deal with
things as directly and maybe

00:05:03.810 --> 00:05:04.950 align:middle line:90%
painfully as I can.

00:05:04.950 --> 00:05:08.440 align:middle line:90%


00:05:08.440 --> 00:05:11.040 align:middle line:84%
There's another
question somewhere.

00:05:11.040 --> 00:05:12.600 align:middle line:84%
So sort of going
off that question,

00:05:12.600 --> 00:05:14.880 align:middle line:84%
it is as it is,
there is a poem--

00:05:14.880 --> 00:05:17.010 align:middle line:84%
I don't remember the title
of it, where you say,

00:05:17.010 --> 00:05:20.700 align:middle line:90%
this thing is this thing.

00:05:20.700 --> 00:05:26.370 align:middle line:84%
And so you're kind of refusing
comparison or equating

00:05:26.370 --> 00:05:30.780 align:middle line:84%
horrors or people's different
experiences of violence

00:05:30.780 --> 00:05:32.730 align:middle line:84%
towards them from
the state, mostly.

00:05:32.730 --> 00:05:38.520 align:middle line:84%
And you're refusing it by
saying it is what it is.

00:05:38.520 --> 00:05:41.070 align:middle line:84%
But then you're putting all
these things in comparison

00:05:41.070 --> 00:05:43.560 align:middle line:84%
to each other by them
being near each other,

00:05:43.560 --> 00:05:44.940 align:middle line:90%
I guess, in this list.

00:05:44.940 --> 00:05:47.280 align:middle line:84%
And I'm just curious to
hear about your process

00:05:47.280 --> 00:05:50.070 align:middle line:84%
for writing that
poem and what tension

00:05:50.070 --> 00:05:53.160 align:middle line:84%
is arising in the inevitable
comparison of things

00:05:53.160 --> 00:05:54.930 align:middle line:84%
that you're also
refusing to compare.

00:05:54.930 --> 00:06:04.080 align:middle line:90%


00:06:04.080 --> 00:06:08.400 align:middle line:84%
So to backtrack, there
was a really bad review

00:06:08.400 --> 00:06:10.380 align:middle line:84%
of The Performance
of Becoming Human

00:06:10.380 --> 00:06:16.440 align:middle line:84%
that came out where the
writer had said something

00:06:16.440 --> 00:06:19.155 align:middle line:90%
like I was a--

00:06:19.155 --> 00:06:21.570 align:middle line:84%
oh, god, what was--
it such a nice phrase.

00:06:21.570 --> 00:06:27.390 align:middle line:84%
It was like a raving didact,
or something like that.

00:06:27.390 --> 00:06:30.530 align:middle line:90%


00:06:30.530 --> 00:06:33.510 align:middle line:84%
And then sort of made
this kind of throw--

00:06:33.510 --> 00:06:39.630 align:middle line:84%
and then brought out this line
from Neruda's "Explico Algunas

00:06:39.630 --> 00:06:44.460 align:middle line:84%
Cosas" and was trying to explain
my work through that line.

00:06:44.460 --> 00:06:47.490 align:middle line:84%
And the blood of dead
children is like the blood

00:06:47.490 --> 00:06:48.780 align:middle line:90%
of dead children.

00:06:48.780 --> 00:06:52.590 align:middle line:84%
And I had always
loved that poem,

00:06:52.590 --> 00:06:58.560 align:middle line:84%
but that review kind of
invited me to reclaim it

00:06:58.560 --> 00:07:03.030 align:middle line:84%
in a certain way now that it was
sort of being used against me.

00:07:03.030 --> 00:07:05.100 align:middle line:84%
So that was part of
the process, [LAUGHS]

00:07:05.100 --> 00:07:06.315 align:middle line:90%
if I'm being totally honest.

00:07:06.315 --> 00:07:09.180 align:middle line:90%


00:07:09.180 --> 00:07:12.870 align:middle line:84%
That was where that poem sort
of re-injected into my life.

00:07:12.870 --> 00:07:15.480 align:middle line:90%


00:07:15.480 --> 00:07:21.150 align:middle line:84%
At the same time,
both in Chicago

00:07:21.150 --> 00:07:25.050 align:middle line:84%
and throughout the country there
were various police shootings

00:07:25.050 --> 00:07:29.310 align:middle line:84%
of young black men
that were happening.

00:07:29.310 --> 00:07:34.170 align:middle line:90%
And then it was August of 2017.

00:07:34.170 --> 00:07:39.690 align:middle line:84%
And there were Nazis marching
through Charlottesville saying,

00:07:39.690 --> 00:07:41.100 align:middle line:90%
"Jews will not replace us."

00:07:41.100 --> 00:07:45.060 align:middle line:90%
And there was like this--

00:07:45.060 --> 00:07:49.080 align:middle line:84%
our president having
a conversation

00:07:49.080 --> 00:07:52.650 align:middle line:84%
where he was asking
whether or not

00:07:52.650 --> 00:07:56.040 align:middle line:84%
they were reasonable or
not, whether or not Nazis

00:07:56.040 --> 00:07:59.640 align:middle line:84%
were OK to be marching
down the street.

00:07:59.640 --> 00:08:02.910 align:middle line:84%
So all of those things
at the same time

00:08:02.910 --> 00:08:05.880 align:middle line:90%
led to the writing of that poem.

00:08:05.880 --> 00:08:08.010 align:middle line:84%
And if there's a certain
sort of layered effect,

00:08:08.010 --> 00:08:10.010 align:middle line:84%
I think it was because I
was feeling overwhelmed

00:08:10.010 --> 00:08:12.540 align:middle line:84%
by the layering of those
three things happening,

00:08:12.540 --> 00:08:16.660 align:middle line:84%
or those multiple things
happening at the same time.

00:08:16.660 --> 00:08:20.940 align:middle line:84%
And especially with
Charlottesville

00:08:20.940 --> 00:08:22.440 align:middle line:84%
among the other
things sort of being

00:08:22.440 --> 00:08:31.890 align:middle line:84%
in the specter of all of
these other national acts

00:08:31.890 --> 00:08:34.528 align:middle line:90%
of white supremacy.

00:08:34.528 --> 00:08:35.070 align:middle line:90%
I don't know.

00:08:35.070 --> 00:08:42.389 align:middle line:84%
It felt like a very
traumatic moment, but also

00:08:42.389 --> 00:08:44.580 align:middle line:90%
a very telling one as well.

00:08:44.580 --> 00:08:50.410 align:middle line:90%


00:08:50.410 --> 00:08:53.200 align:middle line:90%
OK, well, thank you very much.

00:08:53.200 --> 00:08:53.700 align:middle line:90%
Thank you.

00:08:53.700 --> 00:08:54.992 align:middle line:90%
And please come buy some books.

00:08:54.992 --> 00:08:57.640 align:middle line:84%
And we will be sending
them in shortly.

00:08:57.640 --> 00:08:58.390 align:middle line:90%
Thank you so much.

00:08:58.390 --> 00:08:58.890 align:middle line:90%
Thank you.

00:08:58.890 --> 00:09:02.040 align:middle line:90%
[APPLAUSE]

00:09:02.040 --> 00:09:08.263 align:middle line:90%