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I wanted to ask you about
the role of sincerity,

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that is the role of
having your speaker

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or having the speaker say
what you need as a poet

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or having your
speaker say something

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that you're perhaps critical of,
and the role like what you all

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see the role of sincerity
in poetry being.

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Does the speaker necessarily
have to agree with you?

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Or is it necessary to use a
speaker to parody something?

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What's the necessity for
that contemporary poetry?

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I guess it's probably--

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Well, I think irony is
also not new either.

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I mean it forms an integral
part of Greek tragedy.

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There's no there's no Greek
tragedy without irony.

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In terms of making
it new,

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I think that's really important
too because at all points

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every I in every poem is
some sort of performance,

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and that's where that
opposition breaks down as well.

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It's a made thing.

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It's artificial.

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It's not natural.

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At every moment
you're foregrounding

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it's artificiality and it's
madeness, and that in itself

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can be a form of sincerity
as well because you're

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sort of emphasizing the
powers of the imagination

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to make and make
again and again,

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over and over in
different perspectives

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and from different perspectives.

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I could see how sincerity
all the time or irony

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all the time are the
sort of extreme poles,

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and in that sense you have
to play in between definitely

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for work to really
be surprising.