WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:00.497 align:middle line:90% 00:00:00.497 --> 00:00:02.580 align:middle line:84% Collaboration with other artists and collaboration 00:00:02.580 --> 00:00:04.920 align:middle line:84% that you did with Francesco Clemente. 00:00:04.920 --> 00:00:05.613 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:00:05.613 --> 00:00:07.810 align:middle line:90% [INAUDIBLE] 00:00:07.810 --> 00:00:08.310 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:00:08.310 --> 00:00:11.160 align:middle line:90% 00:00:11.160 --> 00:00:12.900 align:middle line:84% Did he do the paintings for-- how did-- 00:00:12.900 --> 00:00:16.290 align:middle line:90% He did the paintings for there. 00:00:16.290 --> 00:00:18.750 align:middle line:84% I think in all of the ones in particular to him, 00:00:18.750 --> 00:00:21.420 align:middle line:90% he begins with the-- 00:00:21.420 --> 00:00:22.470 align:middle line:90% I begin with his-- 00:00:22.470 --> 00:00:27.450 align:middle line:84% he begins-- he does the images and it's been-- 00:00:27.450 --> 00:00:29.860 align:middle line:90% it began with a-- 00:00:29.860 --> 00:00:31.930 align:middle line:84% he used to have a substantial show 00:00:31.930 --> 00:00:43.560 align:middle line:84% of, what were they, like watches, a whole series he did. 00:00:43.560 --> 00:00:48.040 align:middle line:84% Bishop Berger did a catalog of it, and it was called It, 00:00:48.040 --> 00:00:49.173 align:middle line:90% is the name of the catalog. 00:00:49.173 --> 00:00:51.850 align:middle line:90% 00:00:51.850 --> 00:00:58.030 align:middle line:84% In any case, I was then living in Finland that particular year 00:00:58.030 --> 00:01:01.690 align:middle line:84% teaching at the University, and Raymond Floyd, 00:01:01.690 --> 00:01:05.110 align:middle line:84% who is a very close mutual friend, 00:01:05.110 --> 00:01:08.380 align:middle line:84% said that Francesco would be really happy-- 00:01:08.380 --> 00:01:09.910 align:middle line:90% if I could think of something. 00:01:09.910 --> 00:01:11.300 align:middle line:84% He said take as many as you want. 00:01:11.300 --> 00:01:15.250 align:middle line:84% There were 64 images, and he said take any, one or all, 00:01:15.250 --> 00:01:17.440 align:middle line:90% whatever you'd like to do. 00:01:17.440 --> 00:01:23.320 align:middle line:84% So this is our first working in any sense together. 00:01:23.320 --> 00:01:28.330 align:middle line:84% So I chose 12 and did poems particular, 00:01:28.330 --> 00:01:33.400 align:middle line:84% and we really hit it off, and he was very pleased, 00:01:33.400 --> 00:01:35.200 align:middle line:84% not just flattered, but there was 00:01:35.200 --> 00:01:36.550 align:middle line:90% a correspondence of feeling. 00:01:36.550 --> 00:01:39.070 align:middle line:84% It was very interesting, even to the general sense 00:01:39.070 --> 00:01:43.580 align:middle line:90% of the information. 00:01:43.580 --> 00:01:50.320 align:middle line:84% So with that sort of securing pleasure, 00:01:50.320 --> 00:01:53.770 align:middle line:84% we then did, not didactically or it was a format, 00:01:53.770 --> 00:01:55.405 align:middle line:90% but we did shows-- 00:01:55.405 --> 00:01:58.690 align:middle line:90% 00:01:58.690 --> 00:02:04.190 align:middle line:84% Gargosian was showing him quite frequently at that point. 00:02:04.190 --> 00:02:09.280 align:middle line:84% So again, with Raymonds, sort of, very useful participation, 00:02:09.280 --> 00:02:14.020 align:middle line:84% the catalogs for at least three shows perhaps-- 00:02:14.020 --> 00:02:21.010 align:middle line:84% I did a factual series at poems with the images. 00:02:21.010 --> 00:02:25.060 align:middle line:84% Purgatorio, for example, the Black Paintings and the last, 00:02:25.060 --> 00:02:27.010 align:middle line:90% one of my [INAUDIBLE]. 00:02:27.010 --> 00:02:33.070 align:middle line:84% Again, a series of portraits, gouaches, that I 00:02:33.070 --> 00:02:33.790 align:middle line:90% don't think-- 00:02:33.790 --> 00:02:35.860 align:middle line:84% I don't think I have the poems here. 00:02:35.860 --> 00:02:37.580 align:middle line:84% And then the-- when it came time-- 00:02:37.580 --> 00:02:42.670 align:middle line:84% he had a large retrospective at the Guggenheim. 00:02:42.670 --> 00:02:46.240 align:middle line:84% In that situation, what he wanted to do 00:02:46.240 --> 00:02:49.690 align:middle line:84% was to have a particular cluster of friends 00:02:49.690 --> 00:02:53.290 align:middle line:84% take on particular parts of the show. 00:02:53.290 --> 00:02:55.600 align:middle line:84% I got "Conversion to Her," I remember that. 00:02:55.600 --> 00:03:00.350 align:middle line:84% That was a complicated, but certainly really interesting. 00:03:00.350 --> 00:03:02.530 align:middle line:90% So I did a series of-- 00:03:02.530 --> 00:03:05.350 align:middle line:84% each painting is characteristic of the museum, 00:03:05.350 --> 00:03:10.840 align:middle line:84% or any such situation, has a little tag 00:03:10.840 --> 00:03:15.730 align:middle line:84% that tells you the provenance of the painting, when 00:03:15.730 --> 00:03:18.010 align:middle line:84% it was painted, material, blah blah blah, 00:03:18.010 --> 00:03:19.570 align:middle line:90% and any history in particular. 00:03:19.570 --> 00:03:25.510 align:middle line:90% So those-- I wrote brief poems. 00:03:25.510 --> 00:03:29.350 align:middle line:84% E.g., "I'll tell you what you want-- 00:03:29.350 --> 00:03:32.180 align:middle line:84% to say a word, to know the letters of yourself. 00:03:32.180 --> 00:03:34.000 align:middle line:90% A skin falls off. 00:03:34.000 --> 00:03:35.920 align:middle line:90% A big-eared head appears. 00:03:35.920 --> 00:03:38.320 align:middle line:90% An eye and mouth." 00:03:38.320 --> 00:03:42.880 align:middle line:90% Or there's one which-- 00:03:42.880 --> 00:03:46.090 align:middle line:84% "Everybody's child walks the same winding road, 00:03:46.090 --> 00:03:48.670 align:middle line:90% laughs and cries, dies. 00:03:48.670 --> 00:03:50.560 align:middle line:90% That's everybody's child. 00:03:50.560 --> 00:03:52.420 align:middle line:90% The one who's in-between. 00:03:52.420 --> 00:03:54.875 align:middle line:84% The others who have come and gone." 00:03:54.875 --> 00:03:55.750 align:middle line:90% Et cetera, et cetera. 00:03:55.750 --> 00:03:58.090 align:middle line:90% So I loved doing this. 00:03:58.090 --> 00:04:00.505 align:middle line:84% And I insisted on doing all the entries. 00:04:00.505 --> 00:04:03.100 align:middle line:90% 00:04:03.100 --> 00:04:04.612 align:middle line:90% There were 25. 00:04:04.612 --> 00:04:06.320 align:middle line:84% Then, of course, at the very last minute, 00:04:06.320 --> 00:04:09.580 align:middle line:84% they began to shift the show around. 00:04:09.580 --> 00:04:13.870 align:middle line:84% So they said, could we take off 23 and 21 maybe? 00:04:13.870 --> 00:04:17.005 align:middle line:84% I said, no, man, you know, I really want them there. 00:04:17.005 --> 00:04:21.579 align:middle line:84% So they didn't show up in the show. 00:04:21.579 --> 00:04:25.240 align:middle line:84% In fact, that aspect of the show was muted entirely. 00:04:25.240 --> 00:04:28.960 align:middle line:84% And the museum expectedly returned to its own authority. 00:04:28.960 --> 00:04:31.690 align:middle line:90% 00:04:31.690 --> 00:04:33.430 align:middle line:90% But in the catalog. 00:04:33.430 --> 00:04:34.410 align:middle line:90% There they are. 00:04:34.410 --> 00:04:35.890 align:middle line:90% Yeah, that is true. 00:04:35.890 --> 00:04:36.850 align:middle line:90% So that was fun. 00:04:36.850 --> 00:04:40.780 align:middle line:84% I mean, he's a very engaging, bright man to work with. 00:04:40.780 --> 00:04:45.220 align:middle line:84% And his rapport with poets is exceptional, 00:04:45.220 --> 00:04:49.330 align:middle line:84% not just he liked poets to hang out with, but he was-- 00:04:49.330 --> 00:04:51.100 align:middle line:90% he gave me once-- 00:04:51.100 --> 00:04:55.360 align:middle line:84% he's published a substantial collection of poetry 00:04:55.360 --> 00:04:57.290 align:middle line:84% through his mother's insistence, I believe. 00:04:57.290 --> 00:05:04.060 align:middle line:84% And he was really a very bright, curious man. 00:05:04.060 --> 00:05:07.660 align:middle line:84% So but always, in that case, his came first. 00:05:07.660 --> 00:05:09.490 align:middle line:84% Jim Dine, it was the other way around. 00:05:09.490 --> 00:05:12.070 align:middle line:84% I'd do the text first and then Jim would do something. 00:05:12.070 --> 00:05:16.150 align:middle line:84% I don't think-- so that "Mabel," that whole sequence 00:05:16.150 --> 00:05:22.240 align:middle line:84% with the curious heads, he does that in relation to the text. 00:05:22.240 --> 00:05:27.700 align:middle line:84% With that sequence pictures, he does the images, etchings, 00:05:27.700 --> 00:05:29.530 align:middle line:90% in relation to the text. 00:05:29.530 --> 00:05:31.780 align:middle line:90% I don't think-- 00:05:31.780 --> 00:05:35.950 align:middle line:84% I can't recall anything which was is the other way around. 00:05:35.950 --> 00:05:36.520 align:middle line:90% It's hard. 00:05:36.520 --> 00:05:38.440 align:middle line:84% Only once or twice have I worked in what one 00:05:38.440 --> 00:05:40.780 align:middle line:90% can call a true collaboration. 00:05:40.780 --> 00:05:43.780 align:middle line:84% I did something [INAUDIBLE] was dancing. 00:05:43.780 --> 00:05:48.320 align:middle line:84% Cletus Johnson was about the closest I got to that. 00:05:48.320 --> 00:05:53.140 align:middle line:84% But by and large, it was you do this and I'll do this. 00:05:53.140 --> 00:05:55.840 align:middle line:90% So it had a kind of-- 00:05:55.840 --> 00:05:59.080 align:middle line:84% but some people really get to me in the sense 00:05:59.080 --> 00:06:02.350 align:middle line:84% of the ways in which they propose the world. 00:06:02.350 --> 00:06:05.710 align:middle line:84% And the fact that it's not words makes it really terrific. 00:06:05.710 --> 00:06:11.020 align:middle line:84% I mean, music can have that effect too. 00:06:11.020 --> 00:06:12.640 align:middle line:90% It's in the non-- 00:06:12.640 --> 00:06:16.360 align:middle line:90% it's a language it's not verbal. 00:06:16.360 --> 00:06:20.110 align:middle line:84% Again, today, [INAUDIBLE] happily with Peter Walter 00:06:20.110 --> 00:06:26.950 align:middle line:84% and Peter Walsh talking about a language that was gestural-- 00:06:26.950 --> 00:06:28.480 align:middle line:90% where a turtle became-- 00:06:28.480 --> 00:06:31.150 align:middle line:90% 00:06:31.150 --> 00:06:33.820 align:middle line:90% anyhow, it became gestural. 00:06:33.820 --> 00:06:36.040 align:middle line:84% And there was a very determinable vocabulary 00:06:36.040 --> 00:06:36.880 align:middle line:90% that was developed. 00:06:36.880 --> 00:06:40.060 align:middle line:84% Or we think of some of the chimpanzees who 00:06:40.060 --> 00:06:41.560 align:middle line:90% speak one syllable, like "ooh!" 00:06:41.560 --> 00:06:44.140 align:middle line:90% Or "uh!" 00:06:44.140 --> 00:06:47.230 align:middle line:84% If you start thinking of words-- not to didactically 00:06:47.230 --> 00:06:51.045 align:middle line:84% make them abstract in that way-- but think of what the little, 00:06:51.045 --> 00:06:52.540 align:middle line:90% little, little. 00:06:52.540 --> 00:06:55.120 align:middle line:84% Like Ginsberg's boxcars, boxcars, boxcars. 00:06:55.120 --> 00:06:59.000 align:middle line:90% 00:06:59.000 --> 00:07:01.220 align:middle line:90% Whatever boxcars are. 00:07:01.220 --> 00:07:03.875 align:middle line:90% Cars made of boxes, I guess. 00:07:03.875 --> 00:07:07.280 align:middle line:90% Anyhow, any-- please. 00:07:07.280 --> 00:07:08.840 align:middle line:90% I'd like to ask you about jazz. 00:07:08.840 --> 00:07:11.750 align:middle line:90% Do you [INAUDIBLE] jazz? 00:07:11.750 --> 00:07:16.100 align:middle line:84% Yeah, I've been doing a lot of activity out of the house. 00:07:16.100 --> 00:07:20.150 align:middle line:84% There, the crucial trend initially-- there 00:07:20.150 --> 00:07:22.820 align:middle line:84% are two, actually, that are very crucial. 00:07:22.820 --> 00:07:25.220 align:middle line:90% Three. 00:07:25.220 --> 00:07:27.770 align:middle line:84% As Peter would remember, when we were living in Bolinas, 00:07:27.770 --> 00:07:32.095 align:middle line:84% we had this extraordinary neighbor, Steve Swallow, who's 00:07:32.095 --> 00:07:36.530 align:middle line:90% a great bass genius player. 00:07:36.530 --> 00:07:40.310 align:middle line:84% And he, in turn, was an old friend of David Beauregard's, 00:07:40.310 --> 00:07:42.200 align:middle line:90% a fellow poet. 00:07:42.200 --> 00:07:44.495 align:middle line:90% And so our daughter Hannah-- 00:07:44.495 --> 00:07:50.750 align:middle line:84% not Hannah-- Sarah, used to babysit Steve's daughter. 00:07:50.750 --> 00:07:53.780 align:middle line:84% And so we got to know each other, rather shyly, 00:07:53.780 --> 00:07:56.060 align:middle line:90% but we did connect. 00:07:56.060 --> 00:08:01.260 align:middle line:84% And then when he was back in New York, 00:08:01.260 --> 00:08:06.020 align:middle line:84% he had some money, grab money, to work with some materials 00:08:06.020 --> 00:08:07.920 align:middle line:90% of his interest and choice. 00:08:07.920 --> 00:08:10.640 align:middle line:84% So he asked me if I'd be agreeable to his working 00:08:10.640 --> 00:08:13.730 align:middle line:90% with 10 of my poems. 00:08:13.730 --> 00:08:14.750 align:middle line:90% So I was delighted. 00:08:14.750 --> 00:08:19.850 align:middle line:84% It came out of the collection called "Home." 00:08:19.850 --> 00:08:22.220 align:middle line:84% And the several crucial people to me 00:08:22.220 --> 00:08:25.280 align:middle line:90% are the Steve Kuhn, the pianos. 00:08:25.280 --> 00:08:28.810 align:middle line:90% It was really wonderful. 00:08:28.810 --> 00:08:32.690 align:middle line:84% And then Sheila Jordan, very-- she sings the material. 00:08:32.690 --> 00:08:34.890 align:middle line:90% It's just wonderful. 00:08:34.890 --> 00:08:39.950 align:middle line:84% And then not very long after that, I was in Paris for work. 00:08:39.950 --> 00:08:43.159 align:middle line:84% And another extraordinary musician, 00:08:43.159 --> 00:08:47.120 align:middle line:84% just returned to this country, I guess, Steve Lacy, who's 00:08:47.120 --> 00:08:52.580 align:middle line:84% now in Boston, at the New England Conservatory, 00:08:52.580 --> 00:08:55.880 align:middle line:90% had been in the audience. 00:08:55.880 --> 00:08:57.650 align:middle line:84% Earlier that day, we'd been talking 00:08:57.650 --> 00:09:01.820 align:middle line:84% for a kind of set up situation on French radio 00:09:01.820 --> 00:09:04.445 align:middle line:84% about how has jazz influenced-- and he 00:09:04.445 --> 00:09:08.780 align:middle line:84% was the generous person who's talking from the side of jazz. 00:09:08.780 --> 00:09:11.330 align:middle line:84% So he'd come to the reading there and like 00:09:11.330 --> 00:09:14.990 align:middle line:90% one poem called "The rhythm." 00:09:14.990 --> 00:09:16.700 align:middle line:90% So he subsequently is setting-- 00:09:16.700 --> 00:09:21.860 align:middle line:84% and he went on to do a whole musical evening called 00:09:21.860 --> 00:09:26.600 align:middle line:84% "Futurities," which had a gala performance. 00:09:26.600 --> 00:09:30.860 align:middle line:84% It leads with Ken Nolan painting backdrop. 00:09:30.860 --> 00:09:32.630 align:middle line:90% Anyhow, lots of [INAUDIBLE]. 00:09:32.630 --> 00:09:35.930 align:middle line:90% And it came out as a two-CD set. 00:09:35.930 --> 00:09:38.990 align:middle line:90% It's 20 poems, in that case. 00:09:38.990 --> 00:09:41.960 align:middle line:84% And subsequently, he's worked with particular poems. 00:09:41.960 --> 00:09:45.110 align:middle line:84% In all those cases, I was not participant more 00:09:45.110 --> 00:09:49.580 align:middle line:84% than being the person who had written the initial text-- 00:09:49.580 --> 00:09:52.250 align:middle line:84% a movie made from a novel or something. 00:09:52.250 --> 00:09:55.370 align:middle line:84% But nonetheless, fascinating to hear what was done with it 00:09:55.370 --> 00:09:57.500 align:middle line:90% and how it was heard. 00:09:57.500 --> 00:10:01.490 align:middle line:90% But then, thanks to-- 00:10:01.490 --> 00:10:03.650 align:middle line:84% I had a friend from Buffalo who I'd 00:10:03.650 --> 00:10:07.490 align:middle line:84% known as a high school kid, Chris Massey, who 00:10:07.490 --> 00:10:08.910 align:middle line:90% moved subsequently to-- 00:10:08.910 --> 00:10:11.000 align:middle line:84% he was a drummer, a classic drummer-- 00:10:11.000 --> 00:10:14.210 align:middle line:84% and he had moved to Switzerland and was working out 00:10:14.210 --> 00:10:14.960 align:middle line:90% of Switzerland. 00:10:14.960 --> 00:10:23.210 align:middle line:84% And he had had a group called Forever Sharp and Vivid which 00:10:23.210 --> 00:10:24.920 align:middle line:90% was the initial trio he had. 00:10:24.920 --> 00:10:28.680 align:middle line:84% Then he had another one called Trio Courage. 00:10:28.680 --> 00:10:31.310 align:middle line:84% And so anyhow, he wanted to come home 00:10:31.310 --> 00:10:33.110 align:middle line:90% to play in Buffalo if possible. 00:10:33.110 --> 00:10:37.340 align:middle line:84% So I was happily able to get him a place to do it. 00:10:37.340 --> 00:10:40.430 align:middle line:84% And [INAUDIBLE] they get into town about 5:00 that afternoon. 00:10:40.430 --> 00:10:42.500 align:middle line:84% And the group that did manage to get 00:10:42.500 --> 00:10:47.990 align:middle line:90% Steve Swallow to come with him. 00:10:47.990 --> 00:10:49.955 align:middle line:84% And he also got this extraordinary guitar-- 00:10:49.955 --> 00:10:53.140 align:middle line:90% 00:10:53.140 --> 00:10:57.880 align:middle line:84% wonderful musician, David Torn, who does a lot 00:10:57.880 --> 00:10:59.830 align:middle line:90% with layering and computer. 00:10:59.830 --> 00:11:02.860 align:middle line:90% 00:11:02.860 --> 00:11:08.020 align:middle line:84% And the lovely leads person, as they say, David Cassidy. 00:11:08.020 --> 00:11:12.460 align:middle line:84% So they all showed up about two hours before the performance. 00:11:12.460 --> 00:11:15.190 align:middle line:84% And I said, well, let me just introduce you guys 00:11:15.190 --> 00:11:17.505 align:middle line:84% and give you people a little sense of what 00:11:17.505 --> 00:11:18.880 align:middle line:84% your authority is blah blah blah, 00:11:18.880 --> 00:11:21.820 align:middle line:90% and then sort of fade out. 00:11:21.820 --> 00:11:23.950 align:middle line:84% So to make a long story short, they 00:11:23.950 --> 00:11:26.980 align:middle line:84% really did say, Bob, you know, it's your town, 00:11:26.980 --> 00:11:29.620 align:middle line:90% you read, and we'll do it. 00:11:29.620 --> 00:11:35.200 align:middle line:84% So that ended up as a CD called "Have We Told 00:11:35.200 --> 00:11:37.870 align:middle line:90% You All You Thought to Know?" 00:11:37.870 --> 00:11:47.470 align:middle line:84% And then we subsequently went on to greater heights, went to One 00:11:47.470 --> 00:11:52.720 align:middle line:90% World Theater in Austin. 00:11:52.720 --> 00:11:57.340 align:middle line:84% And then about a year ago, we were in the Knitting Factory. 00:11:57.340 --> 00:12:00.660 align:middle line:84% And then at one point, we were even at Woodstock, where-- 00:12:00.660 --> 00:12:04.480 align:middle line:90% it was a series of concerts. 00:12:04.480 --> 00:12:06.970 align:middle line:84% So ours was sandwiched in-between something 00:12:06.970 --> 00:12:12.910 align:middle line:84% like x trio playing Mozart's early works, 00:12:12.910 --> 00:12:15.100 align:middle line:90% or, later, Brahms' "Lullaby." 00:12:15.100 --> 00:12:19.180 align:middle line:84% And there we were with this incredible-- 00:12:19.180 --> 00:12:20.470 align:middle line:90% we started, we were seamless. 00:12:20.470 --> 00:12:23.410 align:middle line:84% We'd start, we didn't quit until it was done. 00:12:23.410 --> 00:12:28.150 align:middle line:84% I remember one moment saying, you know, this very same thing. 00:12:28.150 --> 00:12:30.370 align:middle line:90% That's it. 00:12:30.370 --> 00:12:34.310 align:middle line:90% And to my fellows-- 00:12:34.310 --> 00:12:37.510 align:middle line:84% and I remember, it goes right down 00:12:37.510 --> 00:12:44.650 align:middle line:84% to where all you can hear now is the fingering on the saxophone. 00:12:44.650 --> 00:12:46.210 align:middle line:90% Then it begins to build up. 00:12:46.210 --> 00:12:48.850 align:middle line:84% I see this manic look from David Torn. 00:12:48.850 --> 00:12:53.170 align:middle line:84% It's-- this incredible thing begins to build out of that 00:12:53.170 --> 00:12:57.520 align:middle line:84% rhythm, until suddenly the whole place is just dense with white 00:12:57.520 --> 00:12:58.390 align:middle line:90% noise. 00:12:58.390 --> 00:13:01.120 align:middle line:90% And our audience has been-- 00:13:01.120 --> 00:13:04.570 align:middle line:84% I mean, I'm 76, I think if I could do it, why can't they? 00:13:04.570 --> 00:13:08.110 align:middle line:84% But basically, it's a very old time [INAUDIBLE] audience. 00:13:08.110 --> 00:13:13.660 align:middle line:84% And one of the guys recording said, 00:13:13.660 --> 00:13:16.782 align:middle line:90% you have this [INAUDIBLE]. 00:13:16.782 --> 00:13:18.990 align:middle line:84% One couple came out, and the husband's saying, oh my, 00:13:18.990 --> 00:13:22.180 align:middle line:90% I thought that would never end. 00:13:22.180 --> 00:13:23.900 align:middle line:84% There was no way to leave discreetly, 00:13:23.900 --> 00:13:26.470 align:middle line:90% because it was continuous. 00:13:26.470 --> 00:13:29.560 align:middle line:90% So I found it-- 00:13:29.560 --> 00:13:33.370 align:middle line:84% and I certainly didn't find a new life or a new identity, 00:13:33.370 --> 00:13:35.080 align:middle line:90% you know. 00:13:35.080 --> 00:13:38.110 align:middle line:84% But it was fascinating to sort of put your language 00:13:38.110 --> 00:13:41.470 align:middle line:90% where your head is and see-- 00:13:41.470 --> 00:13:44.110 align:middle line:84% one of the dilemmas, of course, is when to come in 00:13:44.110 --> 00:13:45.820 align:middle line:90% and when to leave. 00:13:45.820 --> 00:13:49.540 align:middle line:84% And I've listened to jazz all my life in one way or another, all 00:13:49.540 --> 00:13:50.570 align:middle line:90% my adult life. 00:13:50.570 --> 00:13:52.930 align:middle line:84% And I was fascinated by that sort 00:13:52.930 --> 00:13:56.110 align:middle line:84% of growing out of itself that's very characteristic of what 00:13:56.110 --> 00:13:56.905 align:middle line:90% its like. 00:13:56.905 --> 00:13:59.570 align:middle line:90% I work as a poet. 00:13:59.570 --> 00:14:04.030 align:middle line:90% And that's [AUDIO OUT] somehow-- 00:14:04.030 --> 00:14:04.900 align:middle line:90% I'm not intuitive. 00:14:04.900 --> 00:14:07.420 align:middle line:84% I sensed when it was appropriate to enter 00:14:07.420 --> 00:14:09.880 align:middle line:84% and sensed when it was appropriate to get out. 00:14:09.880 --> 00:14:12.040 align:middle line:84% And so I could, in that way, play-- 00:14:12.040 --> 00:14:15.562 align:middle line:84% I [INAUDIBLE] was at this, you know-- 00:14:15.562 --> 00:14:17.430 align:middle line:90% reading is just as you've heard. 00:14:17.430 --> 00:14:19.030 align:middle line:90% And so it was no-- 00:14:19.030 --> 00:14:20.770 align:middle line:90% but it worked. 00:14:20.770 --> 00:14:23.190 align:middle line:90% It felt very good. 00:14:23.190 --> 00:14:24.940 align:middle line:84% So I didn't feel I was just been backed up 00:14:24.940 --> 00:14:26.680 align:middle line:90% by musicians, or they-- 00:14:26.680 --> 00:14:27.955 align:middle line:90% or imposing myself. 00:14:27.955 --> 00:14:31.622 align:middle line:84% It felt-- that did feel collaborative. 00:14:31.622 --> 00:14:34.270 align:middle line:90% 00:14:34.270 --> 00:14:34.770 align:middle line:90% Okey-doke. 00:14:34.770 --> 00:14:35.650 align:middle line:90% Thank you. 00:14:35.650 --> 00:14:37.500 align:middle line:90% [APPLAUSE] 00:14:37.500 --> 00:14:38.000 align:middle line:90%