WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.490 align:middle line:84% So I'll open up the floor for any questions, comments? 00:00:03.490 --> 00:00:03.990 align:middle line:90% Yes. 00:00:03.990 --> 00:00:07.710 align:middle line:84% Speaking of being all in it together, questions? 00:00:07.710 --> 00:00:08.890 align:middle line:90% And I will be athletic. 00:00:08.890 --> 00:00:09.390 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:00:09.390 --> 00:00:11.360 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHING] 00:00:11.360 --> 00:00:13.630 align:middle line:90% I have a question [MUTED]. 00:00:13.630 --> 00:00:15.850 align:middle line:84% I just want to say, I think your book is fabulous 00:00:15.850 --> 00:00:20.380 align:middle line:84% and I think it's a fantastic expression of Whitman's verse. 00:00:20.380 --> 00:00:23.230 align:middle line:84% And which leads me to my question. 00:00:23.230 --> 00:00:27.670 align:middle line:84% I first read Leaves of Grass in the Modern Library giant 00:00:27.670 --> 00:00:30.500 align:middle line:84% version illustrated by Valenti Angelo. 00:00:30.500 --> 00:00:31.000 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:00:31.000 --> 00:00:33.980 align:middle line:84% You mentioned Rockwell Kent's illustrations. 00:00:33.980 --> 00:00:34.480 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:00:34.480 --> 00:00:37.630 align:middle line:84% A number of different artists have undertaken this work. 00:00:37.630 --> 00:00:39.610 align:middle line:90% Oh, yeah. 00:00:39.610 --> 00:00:41.860 align:middle line:84% You couldn't be more different from Angelo. 00:00:41.860 --> 00:00:42.400 align:middle line:90% I wonder-- 00:00:42.400 --> 00:00:42.900 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:00:42.900 --> 00:00:45.460 align:middle line:84% --what you think about the various treatments 00:00:45.460 --> 00:00:47.620 align:middle line:84% and how they affected your approach. 00:00:47.620 --> 00:00:50.030 align:middle line:84% They didn't really affect my approach at all, 00:00:50.030 --> 00:00:51.940 align:middle line:90% to be honest with you. 00:00:51.940 --> 00:00:54.220 align:middle line:84% Because there's no way in hell I could ever 00:00:54.220 --> 00:00:57.760 align:middle line:84% hope to do anything on that level. 00:00:57.760 --> 00:01:01.280 align:middle line:84% I just-- I have to be the best me I can be. 00:01:01.280 --> 00:01:06.880 align:middle line:84% I mean, to try to match that is kind 00:01:06.880 --> 00:01:08.260 align:middle line:90% of dooming yourself to failure. 00:01:08.260 --> 00:01:11.110 align:middle line:84% Your main concern is to make sure 00:01:11.110 --> 00:01:13.930 align:middle line:84% that you're doing something that comes naturally 00:01:13.930 --> 00:01:15.950 align:middle line:84% to you, that's coming out of you naturally, 00:01:15.950 --> 00:01:17.680 align:middle line:84% which is also part and parcel of what 00:01:17.680 --> 00:01:19.710 align:middle line:84% you should be doing with something like Whitman 00:01:19.710 --> 00:01:20.900 align:middle line:90% in any way. 00:01:20.900 --> 00:01:25.540 align:middle line:84% So for me, it was never, I can never 00:01:25.540 --> 00:01:28.450 align:middle line:84% hope to compete or try to surpass those guys. 00:01:28.450 --> 00:01:32.950 align:middle line:84% They were consummate masters in their craft. 00:01:32.950 --> 00:01:34.930 align:middle line:90% So that wasn't even something. 00:01:34.930 --> 00:01:40.523 align:middle line:84% My own incompetence made that a non-issue. 00:01:40.523 --> 00:01:41.440 align:middle line:90% Let's put it that way. 00:01:41.440 --> 00:01:44.290 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHING] 00:01:44.290 --> 00:01:46.030 align:middle line:90% Anybody else? 00:01:46.030 --> 00:01:48.100 align:middle line:90% Just a couple of quick-- 00:01:48.100 --> 00:01:50.410 align:middle line:84% was there any scheme to your choice of the background 00:01:50.410 --> 00:01:51.880 align:middle line:90% color on the pages? 00:01:51.880 --> 00:01:54.500 align:middle line:90% And a typographic question. 00:01:54.500 --> 00:01:55.000 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:01:55.000 --> 00:01:57.430 align:middle line:84% On the original edition, what is with that period 00:01:57.430 --> 00:01:59.230 align:middle line:90% at the end of the title? 00:01:59.230 --> 00:02:00.970 align:middle line:90% At the end of the title? 00:02:00.970 --> 00:02:03.790 align:middle line:84% The original 1855 edition, I noticed 00:02:03.790 --> 00:02:06.235 align:middle line:84% it said there was a period at the end of the title. 00:02:06.235 --> 00:02:08.110 align:middle line:84% That's because that's a typo in the original. 00:02:08.110 --> 00:02:08.889 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHING] 00:02:08.889 --> 00:02:09.460 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:02:09.460 --> 00:02:10.210 align:middle line:90% It is. 00:02:10.210 --> 00:02:11.830 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:02:11.830 --> 00:02:14.620 align:middle line:84% I've talked to Whitman experts, and yeah. 00:02:14.620 --> 00:02:20.680 align:middle line:84% But each individual copy of the original 1855 version 00:02:20.680 --> 00:02:25.750 align:middle line:84% is typographically different because commas and things 00:02:25.750 --> 00:02:27.655 align:middle line:84% like that were always dropping out. 00:02:27.655 --> 00:02:29.530 align:middle line:84% They were getting loose as they were printing 00:02:29.530 --> 00:02:31.450 align:middle line:84% and they were falling out of the cages. 00:02:31.450 --> 00:02:34.697 align:middle line:84% And so if you looked at every single copy, 00:02:34.697 --> 00:02:37.030 align:middle line:84% you'd probably find something that was a little bit off. 00:02:37.030 --> 00:02:37.848 align:middle line:90% But yeah. 00:02:37.848 --> 00:02:39.640 align:middle line:84% Was there a scheme to the background color? 00:02:39.640 --> 00:02:40.480 align:middle line:84% I'm sorry to ask you a question-- 00:02:40.480 --> 00:02:41.200 align:middle line:90% Well, yeah. 00:02:41.200 --> 00:02:43.090 align:middle line:84% Like I said before, it's something 00:02:43.090 --> 00:02:46.030 align:middle line:84% to hold the entire work together, really. 00:02:46.030 --> 00:02:49.570 align:middle line:84% Because if you keep repeating those three colors, 00:02:49.570 --> 00:02:53.680 align:middle line:84% it brackets the entire thing, even though stylistically 00:02:53.680 --> 00:02:57.160 align:middle line:84% you're kind of moving around widely. 00:02:57.160 --> 00:03:01.000 align:middle line:84% But also there's the added dimension of the fact 00:03:01.000 --> 00:03:03.470 align:middle line:84% that Whitman grew up by the ocean. 00:03:03.470 --> 00:03:05.120 align:middle line:90% And these are Yankee colors. 00:03:05.120 --> 00:03:07.390 align:middle line:90% These are nautical colors. 00:03:07.390 --> 00:03:09.670 align:middle line:84% And they also stand up to each other equally. 00:03:09.670 --> 00:03:12.800 align:middle line:84% Not one is more dominant than the other. 00:03:12.800 --> 00:03:15.010 align:middle line:84% So that was pretty important too. 00:03:15.010 --> 00:03:19.900 align:middle line:84% So all these little things I kind of thought out. 00:03:19.900 --> 00:03:25.240 align:middle line:84% I had an awful lot of access to archivists, historians, 00:03:25.240 --> 00:03:27.220 align:middle line:84% and librarians in the Philadelphia area 00:03:27.220 --> 00:03:29.050 align:middle line:84% who were experts on Whitman, one of which 00:03:29.050 --> 00:03:32.290 align:middle line:84% I dedicated the book to, who unfortunately passed away 00:03:32.290 --> 00:03:34.810 align:middle line:90% before the book came out. 00:03:34.810 --> 00:03:35.590 align:middle line:90% He died of cancer. 00:03:35.590 --> 00:03:40.240 align:middle line:84% But his collection of Whitman ephemera and letters 00:03:40.240 --> 00:03:41.740 align:middle line:84% are now in the permanent collection 00:03:41.740 --> 00:03:43.630 align:middle line:84% at my old Alma Mater, which is the State 00:03:43.630 --> 00:03:45.220 align:middle line:90% College in Southern New Jersey. 00:03:45.220 --> 00:03:49.000 align:middle line:84% So his legacy, like Whitman's, lives on. 00:03:49.000 --> 00:03:49.900 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:03:49.900 --> 00:03:50.912 align:middle line:90% Anybody else? 00:03:50.912 --> 00:03:51.620 align:middle line:90% Another question? 00:03:51.620 --> 00:03:52.120 align:middle line:90% Yes. 00:03:52.120 --> 00:03:56.600 align:middle line:90% 00:03:56.600 --> 00:03:59.180 align:middle line:84% I just wanted to say, a lot of visual artists 00:03:59.180 --> 00:04:04.010 align:middle line:84% I know don't put as much work into lettering and typography. 00:04:04.010 --> 00:04:06.710 align:middle line:84% I'm just wondering where that interest started for you. 00:04:06.710 --> 00:04:09.410 align:middle line:84% I assume it was before this project. 00:04:09.410 --> 00:04:11.360 align:middle line:84% I've been doing, I've been a graphic designer 00:04:11.360 --> 00:04:13.290 align:middle line:90% and illustrator for 25 years. 00:04:13.290 --> 00:04:18.660 align:middle line:84% So I've designed typefaces in the past. 00:04:18.660 --> 00:04:23.570 align:middle line:84% It's just part and parcel of the job, really. 00:04:23.570 --> 00:04:26.090 align:middle line:84% I mean, you can't really communicate without type, 00:04:26.090 --> 00:04:29.150 align:middle line:84% so at some point you're going to confront type. 00:04:29.150 --> 00:04:34.000 align:middle line:84% So I'm not a real, in the classic sense, 00:04:34.000 --> 00:04:36.170 align:middle line:84% I'm not like a true illustrator because I 00:04:36.170 --> 00:04:38.720 align:middle line:90% don't work solely with imagery. 00:04:38.720 --> 00:04:42.140 align:middle line:84% I'm also very concerned with text and type and layout 00:04:42.140 --> 00:04:45.200 align:middle line:84% and how all that kind of comes together. 00:04:45.200 --> 00:04:48.080 align:middle line:90% That's my main concern. 00:04:48.080 --> 00:04:50.150 align:middle line:84% Like I said before, I don't really 00:04:50.150 --> 00:04:55.010 align:middle line:84% feel like this is an illustration project so much 00:04:55.010 --> 00:04:57.080 align:middle line:90% as a graphic design project. 00:04:57.080 --> 00:04:58.670 align:middle line:84% It's just-- it's a design project 00:04:58.670 --> 00:05:02.930 align:middle line:84% that I happen to have to use illustrated elements for it. 00:05:02.930 --> 00:05:05.350 align:middle line:84% And I just happen to be able to supply this. 00:05:05.350 --> 00:05:07.850 align:middle line:84% This kind of illustration is really rough, 00:05:07.850 --> 00:05:10.760 align:middle line:84% sort of moderately incompetent style-- 00:05:10.760 --> 00:05:11.720 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHING] 00:05:11.720 --> 00:05:13.520 align:middle line:84% --wouldn't have worked if it was a Dickens 00:05:13.520 --> 00:05:18.050 align:middle line:84% collection or a Tennyson, or anything like that. 00:05:18.050 --> 00:05:21.860 align:middle line:84% But because it's kind of clunky, it just 00:05:21.860 --> 00:05:25.400 align:middle line:84% seems to suit Whitman's aesthetic better. 00:05:25.400 --> 00:05:28.280 align:middle line:84% So it was just a good way for it to click. 00:05:28.280 --> 00:05:29.900 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:05:29.900 --> 00:05:31.580 align:middle line:90% Anybody else? 00:05:31.580 --> 00:05:36.920 align:middle line:84% In instances where the text or specific phrases in the text 00:05:36.920 --> 00:05:40.400 align:middle line:84% kind of curve around or maybe parts of some of the words 00:05:40.400 --> 00:05:45.500 align:middle line:84% are placed vertically so that a phrase doesn't go strictly 00:05:45.500 --> 00:05:47.990 align:middle line:84% left to right, top to bottom, I noticed some 00:05:47.990 --> 00:05:50.030 align:middle line:90% of those in the PowerPoint. 00:05:50.030 --> 00:05:54.470 align:middle line:84% I was just curious if you could talk a little bit 00:05:54.470 --> 00:05:59.300 align:middle line:84% about how you made those spatial choices as to, oh, well, right 00:05:59.300 --> 00:06:02.630 align:middle line:84% here I think I'm going to put this word sideways 00:06:02.630 --> 00:06:05.180 align:middle line:90% or this word is going to curve. 00:06:05.180 --> 00:06:06.170 align:middle line:90% Oh, boy. 00:06:06.170 --> 00:06:10.730 align:middle line:84% That was on such a case by case basis for each page. 00:06:10.730 --> 00:06:13.250 align:middle line:84% I did towards the end get pretty good at trying 00:06:13.250 --> 00:06:19.770 align:middle line:84% to figure out how much space I had for any body of text. 00:06:19.770 --> 00:06:22.290 align:middle line:84% There were points where I had a half a page. 00:06:22.290 --> 00:06:24.050 align:middle line:90% And I knew how to-- 00:06:24.050 --> 00:06:26.750 align:middle line:84% I knew how it was going to have to fill that spread. 00:06:26.750 --> 00:06:29.570 align:middle line:84% And I knew also it kind of eliminated 00:06:29.570 --> 00:06:33.800 align:middle line:84% a lot of options for me as far as other imagery goes too. 00:06:33.800 --> 00:06:36.560 align:middle line:84% Because I knew that, well, I got about 12 lines 00:06:36.560 --> 00:06:37.820 align:middle line:90% to put into this spread. 00:06:37.820 --> 00:06:39.980 align:middle line:84% I can't really do what I really wanted 00:06:39.980 --> 00:06:41.520 align:middle line:90% to do with an image with this. 00:06:41.520 --> 00:06:42.320 align:middle line:90% So that's out. 00:06:42.320 --> 00:06:44.400 align:middle line:84% So I got to come up with something else. 00:06:44.400 --> 00:06:47.597 align:middle line:84% So, yeah, it was like a really problematic sort of thing 00:06:47.597 --> 00:06:48.680 align:middle line:90% throughout the whole book. 00:06:48.680 --> 00:06:50.600 align:middle line:90% It was really vexing at times. 00:06:50.600 --> 00:06:53.840 align:middle line:90% But yeah. 00:06:53.840 --> 00:06:56.750 align:middle line:84% I could look at it and I would have to go back. 00:06:56.750 --> 00:06:59.000 align:middle line:84% And sometimes I would just have to start from scratch. 00:06:59.000 --> 00:07:02.330 align:middle line:84% Just throw the entire thing out again, and then just start 00:07:02.330 --> 00:07:03.450 align:middle line:90% anew. 00:07:03.450 --> 00:07:03.950 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:07:03.950 --> 00:07:07.790 align:middle line:84% And then I was behind schedule and that was a real bear. 00:07:07.790 --> 00:07:09.778 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHING] 00:07:09.778 --> 00:07:11.270 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:07:11.270 --> 00:07:12.470 align:middle line:90% Time for one more question. 00:07:12.470 --> 00:07:13.770 align:middle line:90% Any more questions? 00:07:13.770 --> 00:07:14.270 align:middle line:90% Yes. 00:07:14.270 --> 00:07:16.580 align:middle line:84% Here I come athletically over to you. 00:07:16.580 --> 00:07:19.835 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHING] 00:07:19.835 --> 00:07:22.345 align:middle line:90% 00:07:22.345 --> 00:07:23.970 align:middle line:84% Thank you so much for coming to Tucson. 00:07:23.970 --> 00:07:25.230 align:middle line:90% This has been great. 00:07:25.230 --> 00:07:27.780 align:middle line:84% Can you tell us how you and Tin House 00:07:27.780 --> 00:07:31.110 align:middle line:84% hooked up on this project, because it seems like such 00:07:31.110 --> 00:07:32.760 align:middle line:90% a wonderful, wonderful match. 00:07:32.760 --> 00:07:40.770 align:middle line:84% I used to do some contributions to their literary journal 00:07:40.770 --> 00:07:41.850 align:middle line:90% for years. 00:07:41.850 --> 00:07:48.430 align:middle line:84% And then my agent and I were batting back and forth 00:07:48.430 --> 00:07:52.693 align:middle line:84% projects that might actually be of interest or something 00:07:52.693 --> 00:07:53.610 align:middle line:90% that we wanted to try. 00:07:53.610 --> 00:07:58.620 align:middle line:84% And this one just kind of clicked with Tony at Tin House. 00:07:58.620 --> 00:08:00.150 align:middle line:84% And we started having a discussion, 00:08:00.150 --> 00:08:03.060 align:middle line:84% going back and forth whether or not I could really pull it off. 00:08:03.060 --> 00:08:06.887 align:middle line:84% And those guys are really, really approachable. 00:08:06.887 --> 00:08:08.970 align:middle line:84% I just call them on the phone and say, hey listen, 00:08:08.970 --> 00:08:10.110 align:middle line:90% I got an idea. 00:08:10.110 --> 00:08:12.600 align:middle line:84% And that's what I love about Tin House. 00:08:12.600 --> 00:08:15.300 align:middle line:84% Because they're large enough to really put 00:08:15.300 --> 00:08:20.890 align:middle line:84% a lot of muscle behind their books, in terms of promotion, 00:08:20.890 --> 00:08:22.890 align:middle line:84% and that sort of thing, but they're small enough 00:08:22.890 --> 00:08:24.720 align:middle line:90% to want to take chances too. 00:08:24.720 --> 00:08:27.630 align:middle line:84% And I can't thank them enough, just like I can't 00:08:27.630 --> 00:08:29.250 align:middle line:90% thank the Poetry Center enough. 00:08:29.250 --> 00:08:30.930 align:middle line:90% Yeah, so. 00:08:30.930 --> 00:08:31.770 align:middle line:90% Thank you, Allen. 00:08:31.770 --> 00:08:33.395 align:middle line:84% A round of applause for Allen Crawford! 00:08:33.395 --> 00:08:36.480 align:middle line:90% [APPLAUSE] 00:08:36.480 --> 00:08:37.000 align:middle line:90%