WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.220 align:middle line:90% 00:00:02.220 --> 00:00:04.107 align:middle line:90% I had a question back here. 00:00:04.107 --> 00:00:05.190 align:middle line:90% And I have the microphone. 00:00:05.190 --> 00:00:07.780 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:00:07.780 --> 00:00:10.740 align:middle line:90% This is for Christine. 00:00:10.740 --> 00:00:12.690 align:middle line:84% Some people were talking in the intermission 00:00:12.690 --> 00:00:15.780 align:middle line:84% about that repetition when that repetition of that line 00:00:15.780 --> 00:00:18.060 align:middle line:90% gets really heavy duty. 00:00:18.060 --> 00:00:20.700 align:middle line:84% They both put their hands over their hearts, and were like, 00:00:20.700 --> 00:00:21.270 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:00:21.270 --> 00:00:25.110 align:middle line:84% I could hardly bear it, and it made 00:00:25.110 --> 00:00:27.060 align:middle line:84% me wonder about the process for you 00:00:27.060 --> 00:00:30.820 align:middle line:84% and how it felt when you decided to start repeating that. 00:00:30.820 --> 00:00:31.320 align:middle line:90% And just-- 00:00:31.320 --> 00:00:34.480 align:middle line:84% You're talking about the rain and walking around? 00:00:34.480 --> 00:00:34.980 align:middle line:90% Yes. 00:00:34.980 --> 00:00:35.340 align:middle line:90% OK. 00:00:35.340 --> 00:00:35.760 align:middle line:90% What-- 00:00:35.760 --> 00:00:36.968 align:middle line:90% Yeah, "What became the rain." 00:00:36.968 --> 00:00:39.640 align:middle line:84% That particular line that was repeated again and again 00:00:39.640 --> 00:00:40.140 align:middle line:90% and again? 00:00:40.140 --> 00:00:40.740 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:00:40.740 --> 00:00:47.820 align:middle line:84% Well, that's taken directly from the 9-1-1 call, 00:00:47.820 --> 00:00:55.880 align:middle line:84% so I thought that was just a great moment 00:00:55.880 --> 00:00:57.920 align:middle line:84% like a very telling moment in terms 00:00:57.920 --> 00:01:02.540 align:middle line:84% of this inconsequential behavior. 00:01:02.540 --> 00:01:04.470 align:middle line:84% So what he's reporting, of course, 00:01:04.470 --> 00:01:06.800 align:middle line:84% is that there's somebody not doing anything. 00:01:06.800 --> 00:01:12.500 align:middle line:84% [CHUCKLING] And so I wanted that to just 00:01:12.500 --> 00:01:18.320 align:middle line:84% accumulate as the piece goes on, and then contextualize it 00:01:18.320 --> 00:01:19.580 align:middle line:90% at the end. 00:01:19.580 --> 00:01:24.850 align:middle line:84% I mean, I think to give the whole thing more of a 00:01:24.850 --> 00:01:30.250 align:middle line:84% through line in addition to the discussion of sound 00:01:30.250 --> 00:01:38.530 align:middle line:84% and thinking about sound as a Utopian, liberatory dimension 00:01:38.530 --> 00:01:40.720 align:middle line:84% that connects the body, which is redolent 00:01:40.720 --> 00:01:44.890 align:middle line:90% of the universe with language. 00:01:44.890 --> 00:01:53.680 align:middle line:84% And so that, for me, just really sunk the whole mood 00:01:53.680 --> 00:01:54.790 align:middle line:90% of the piece I guess. 00:01:54.790 --> 00:01:59.560 align:middle line:90% 00:01:59.560 --> 00:02:00.520 align:middle line:90% Julie had a question. 00:02:00.520 --> 00:02:01.480 align:middle line:90% Julie had a question. 00:02:01.480 --> 00:02:04.022 align:middle line:84% (FAINTLY) I'm not sure if it was a question, but what do you, 00:02:04.022 --> 00:02:05.730 align:middle line:90% maybe, think about [INAUDIBLE]. 00:02:05.730 --> 00:02:09.650 align:middle line:90% Poetry is very-- it's filmic. 00:02:09.650 --> 00:02:13.070 align:middle line:84% You create your own images when-- 00:02:13.070 --> 00:02:14.030 align:middle line:90% oh. 00:02:14.030 --> 00:02:18.320 align:middle line:84% (LOUDLY IN MIC) Poetry is a filmic medium. 00:02:18.320 --> 00:02:23.840 align:middle line:84% In a way, it creates insight and the reverberation 00:02:23.840 --> 00:02:28.070 align:middle line:84% of the relationship between the words and the sound 00:02:28.070 --> 00:02:30.200 align:middle line:90% make you imagine or see. 00:02:30.200 --> 00:02:32.060 align:middle line:90% So I don't know. 00:02:32.060 --> 00:02:35.660 align:middle line:84% The way film and poetry come together 00:02:35.660 --> 00:02:41.160 align:middle line:84% is full of risk, in a way, in case one drowns the other. 00:02:41.160 --> 00:02:44.480 align:middle line:90% So how do any of you-- 00:02:44.480 --> 00:02:50.490 align:middle line:84% or even, not necessarily film, but re-recorded medium-- 00:02:50.490 --> 00:02:51.840 align:middle line:90% ride that rail? 00:02:51.840 --> 00:02:56.061 align:middle line:90% 00:02:56.061 --> 00:02:56.561 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:02:56.561 --> 00:02:58.301 align:middle line:90% Know when to pull-- 00:02:58.301 --> 00:03:01.520 align:middle line:84% know when to pull back or give space. 00:03:01.520 --> 00:03:04.820 align:middle line:84% Well, one of the things that's interesting to me 00:03:04.820 --> 00:03:08.360 align:middle line:84% about using film with talking about race 00:03:08.360 --> 00:03:13.580 align:middle line:84% is that the problem with racial issues 00:03:13.580 --> 00:03:15.980 align:middle line:90% has to do with what is seen. 00:03:15.980 --> 00:03:18.330 align:middle line:90% So it is all about the body. 00:03:18.330 --> 00:03:20.420 align:middle line:84% It's all about whiteness, Blackness. 00:03:20.420 --> 00:03:22.340 align:middle line:90% How one is perceived. 00:03:22.340 --> 00:03:23.630 align:middle line:90% How one looks. 00:03:23.630 --> 00:03:25.940 align:middle line:90% How one sees what one is seeing. 00:03:25.940 --> 00:03:27.170 align:middle line:90% All of that stuff. 00:03:27.170 --> 00:03:34.740 align:middle line:84% So that subject, to me, seemed intimately tied to film, 00:03:34.740 --> 00:03:38.940 align:middle line:84% and we saw that moment with the Rodney King video. 00:03:38.940 --> 00:03:43.410 align:middle line:84% I mean, I think the Rodney King video, 00:03:43.410 --> 00:03:46.320 align:middle line:84% it's the moment that threw it up. 00:03:46.320 --> 00:03:49.050 align:middle line:84% I mean, we also saw that moment with those lynching-- 00:03:49.050 --> 00:03:52.350 align:middle line:84% you know those lynching photographs where you see 00:03:52.350 --> 00:03:58.260 align:middle line:84% the white spectators running on the bottom and then the two 00:03:58.260 --> 00:04:00.810 align:middle line:90% lynching bodies-- 00:04:00.810 --> 00:04:02.730 align:middle line:90% that especially famous one-- 00:04:02.730 --> 00:04:05.520 align:middle line:84% where the two lynching bodies are there? 00:04:05.520 --> 00:04:11.310 align:middle line:84% And then you have, going right across the bottom 00:04:11.310 --> 00:04:16.140 align:middle line:84% of the photograph, all of the White faces, both invested, 00:04:16.140 --> 00:04:17.010 align:middle line:90% not invested. 00:04:17.010 --> 00:04:18.300 align:middle line:90% Interested, not interested. 00:04:18.300 --> 00:04:20.740 align:middle line:90% Amused, not amused, whatever. 00:04:20.740 --> 00:04:24.240 align:middle line:84% And so I feel like that, the idea of the image-- 00:04:24.240 --> 00:04:27.890 align:middle line:84% and the way in which the image is 00:04:27.890 --> 00:04:36.860 align:middle line:84% tied to this knot at the soul of American culture that tomorrow 00:04:36.860 --> 00:04:41.870 align:middle line:84% and the next day still means that one in three Black men 00:04:41.870 --> 00:04:44.090 align:middle line:84% are going to be put in prison for no reason-- 00:04:44.090 --> 00:04:47.960 align:middle line:90% like, there is some-- it's tied. 00:04:47.960 --> 00:04:52.020 align:middle line:84% It's deeper than the image, and yet it is the image. 00:04:52.020 --> 00:04:58.370 align:middle line:84% And so the film seemed to be the place 00:04:58.370 --> 00:05:02.390 align:middle line:90% that I could work on that. 00:05:02.390 --> 00:05:06.760 align:middle line:84% The text is another issue, but, for me, it 00:05:06.760 --> 00:05:11.180 align:middle line:84% was important to begin to look at what is seen 00:05:11.180 --> 00:05:14.922 align:middle line:84% and to talk about perception through film. 00:05:14.922 --> 00:05:16.338 align:middle line:90% (SOFTLY) I like that. 00:05:16.338 --> 00:05:19.380 align:middle line:84% Because I think one of the things I notice about Claudia's 00:05:19.380 --> 00:05:22.470 align:middle line:84% films, these two pairings especially, 00:05:22.470 --> 00:05:26.400 align:middle line:84% is that she really plays with reflective surfaces. 00:05:26.400 --> 00:05:32.800 align:middle line:84% And so both pieces rely on the sense of reflection. 00:05:32.800 --> 00:05:35.790 align:middle line:84% They're calling you into a sense, a space, 00:05:35.790 --> 00:05:39.570 align:middle line:84% of reflection via the windows and the way 00:05:39.570 --> 00:05:42.610 align:middle line:84% that images get projected onto those windows. 00:05:42.610 --> 00:05:44.970 align:middle line:84% So I think that is something that's 00:05:44.970 --> 00:05:48.270 align:middle line:84% very particular that you're doing, in those two pieces 00:05:48.270 --> 00:05:50.640 align:middle line:90% Especially 00:05:50.640 --> 00:05:53.340 align:middle line:90% I want to say something also. 00:05:53.340 --> 00:05:55.380 align:middle line:90% I think it was Rosa Alcalá. 00:05:55.380 --> 00:05:57.870 align:middle line:84% Was it in one of your essays, or was 00:05:57.870 --> 00:06:01.860 align:middle line:84% it in one of our conversations that you observed something, 00:06:01.860 --> 00:06:04.260 align:middle line:84% along the lines of what Julie just said, 00:06:04.260 --> 00:06:08.940 align:middle line:84% about the poems being so cinematic? 00:06:08.940 --> 00:06:11.310 align:middle line:84% Do you remember, Rosa, that there 00:06:11.310 --> 00:06:16.560 align:middle line:84% was a framing of the image that was influenced by films? 00:06:16.560 --> 00:06:18.930 align:middle line:84% Do you remember the conversation? 00:06:18.930 --> 00:06:22.320 align:middle line:84% I remember it vividly because it cost me an impression 00:06:22.320 --> 00:06:26.940 align:middle line:84% that you had noticed that, and I want to relate that to the fact 00:06:26.940 --> 00:06:30.900 align:middle line:84% that we're hearing the off-the-page meditation. 00:06:30.900 --> 00:06:33.660 align:middle line:84% Because when you first invited me, 00:06:33.660 --> 00:06:38.130 align:middle line:84% I need to, and off the page, the first immediate reaction 00:06:38.130 --> 00:06:40.320 align:middle line:84% that I had, I thought it was very funny. 00:06:40.320 --> 00:06:44.730 align:middle line:84% Because, in truth, poetry has always been off the page 00:06:44.730 --> 00:06:46.150 align:middle line:90% for millions of years. 00:06:46.150 --> 00:06:49.770 align:middle line:84% How many million of years people have been making poetry? 00:06:49.770 --> 00:06:52.620 align:middle line:90% So poetry is visiting the page. 00:06:52.620 --> 00:06:53.255 align:middle line:90% It's visiting-- 00:06:53.255 --> 00:06:55.590 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:06:55.590 --> 00:06:58.474 align:middle line:90% --very briefly. 00:06:58.474 --> 00:07:01.953 align:middle line:90% [APPLAUSE] 00:07:01.953 --> 00:07:02.947 align:middle line:90% 00:07:02.947 --> 00:07:07.590 align:middle line:84% And so I think it's the same with the cinema. 00:07:07.590 --> 00:07:10.920 align:middle line:84% The minute cinema appeared in human consciousness, 00:07:10.920 --> 00:07:14.550 align:middle line:84% it immediately penetrated our way 00:07:14.550 --> 00:07:17.560 align:middle line:84% of framing, which relates to what you're saying. 00:07:17.560 --> 00:07:20.730 align:middle line:84% So that's why it becomes a double tool. 00:07:20.730 --> 00:07:27.180 align:middle line:84% The poem and the film are bound to come together and to fight. 00:07:27.180 --> 00:07:31.590 align:middle line:84% And I think it's a really beautiful, fantastic tension 00:07:31.590 --> 00:07:36.570 align:middle line:84% of possible and impossible in that framing. 00:07:36.570 --> 00:07:39.550 align:middle line:84% Because as you were pointing out, for example, 00:07:39.550 --> 00:07:45.060 align:middle line:84% I love the films that you showed because, precisely, 00:07:45.060 --> 00:07:49.110 align:middle line:90% they have depth to them. 00:07:49.110 --> 00:07:51.480 align:middle line:90% It's like they're not images. 00:07:51.480 --> 00:07:54.450 align:middle line:84% They're going into transparencies 00:07:54.450 --> 00:07:57.300 align:middle line:84% as ancient oil painting used to do 00:07:57.300 --> 00:07:59.940 align:middle line:84% or as the rock paintings used to do. 00:07:59.940 --> 00:08:01.950 align:middle line:84% If you look at the rock paintings that 00:08:01.950 --> 00:08:05.310 align:middle line:84% are 20,000 years old, 40,000 years old, 00:08:05.310 --> 00:08:07.770 align:middle line:84% it's really a depth that's completely 00:08:07.770 --> 00:08:10.320 align:middle line:84% unrelated to the Western perspective. 00:08:10.320 --> 00:08:15.900 align:middle line:84% It's a depth of dimension-less dimensionality, 00:08:15.900 --> 00:08:20.190 align:middle line:84% and that is really something that film and the connectivity 00:08:20.190 --> 00:08:24.190 align:middle line:84% of sound, for example, when you ask us to close our eyes, 00:08:24.190 --> 00:08:27.930 align:middle line:84% we immediately go into that dimension, that space 00:08:27.930 --> 00:08:30.570 align:middle line:90% because sound is like that. 00:08:30.570 --> 00:08:35.159 align:middle line:84% For example, in the Indigenous cultures of the Americas, 00:08:35.159 --> 00:08:38.100 align:middle line:84% the images, visual images, are never 00:08:38.100 --> 00:08:40.350 align:middle line:84% to be trusted because they're considered 00:08:40.350 --> 00:08:42.340 align:middle line:90% to always be hallucinogenic. 00:08:42.340 --> 00:08:44.159 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:08:44.159 --> 00:08:47.430 align:middle line:84% Nevertheless, sound is always trusted, 00:08:47.430 --> 00:08:50.760 align:middle line:84% because sound tells you how to survive. 00:08:50.760 --> 00:08:54.570 align:middle line:84% You see, if somebody is coming at you, you will hear it, 00:08:54.570 --> 00:08:57.380 align:middle line:90% not see it. 00:08:57.380 --> 00:09:01.050 align:middle line:84% I think it also hits the subconscious faster-- 00:09:01.050 --> 00:09:03.740 align:middle line:90% sound does-- than images.