WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.060 align:middle line:90% 00:00:03.060 --> 00:00:07.135 align:middle line:84% So Chris-- first, Ofelia, I love that you opened with the poem 00:00:07.135 --> 00:00:09.810 align:middle line:84% in O'odham --It was very nice to hear that language in the ear. 00:00:09.810 --> 00:00:11.460 align:middle line:84% And I'm also wondering if you have 00:00:11.460 --> 00:00:15.030 align:middle line:84% any of the poet whom you translated to Icelandic 00:00:15.030 --> 00:00:18.330 align:middle line:90% that you could read. 00:00:18.330 --> 00:00:19.100 align:middle line:90% I didn't bring it. 00:00:19.100 --> 00:00:21.960 align:middle line:84% What about the poem you recited on the radio in Cleveland? 00:00:21.960 --> 00:00:24.037 align:middle line:90% I can recite an Icelandic poem. 00:00:24.037 --> 00:00:24.870 align:middle line:90% That would be great. 00:00:24.870 --> 00:00:25.160 align:middle line:90% OK. 00:00:25.160 --> 00:00:25.993 align:middle line:90% I'd love to hear it. 00:00:25.993 --> 00:00:27.060 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:00:27.060 --> 00:00:31.710 align:middle line:84% Yeah, this poem is actually by one 00:00:31.710 --> 00:00:34.110 align:middle line:90% of the Icelandic modernists. 00:00:34.110 --> 00:00:37.200 align:middle line:84% Icelandic modernism happened within a span 00:00:37.200 --> 00:00:38.080 align:middle line:90% of about 10 years. 00:00:38.080 --> 00:00:42.630 align:middle line:84% So anyhow, what distinguished Icelandic modernism 00:00:42.630 --> 00:00:46.320 align:middle line:84% was writing about the common people. 00:00:46.320 --> 00:00:50.370 align:middle line:84% It took it out of this rarified air of poetry. 00:00:50.370 --> 00:00:55.140 align:middle line:84% So this is by David Stefànsson, and the poem is called "Ég 00:00:55.140 --> 00:00:58.500 align:middle line:84% sigli í haust," "I Sail in the Fall." 00:00:58.500 --> 00:01:04.100 align:middle line:90% Sumarið líður. Sumarið líður. Það kólnar og kemur haust. 00:01:04.600 --> 00:01:14.090 align:middle line:90% Ég er fuglinn sem flýgur, skipið sem bylgjan ber. Kvæði mín eru kveðjur. Ég kem og ég fer. 00:01:24.090 --> 00:01:28.590 align:middle line:84% Ofelia, could you say something about how you got interested 00:01:28.590 --> 00:01:30.630 align:middle line:90% in language? 00:01:30.630 --> 00:01:34.970 align:middle line:84% Both your native language and studying language 00:01:34.970 --> 00:01:39.280 align:middle line:90% and [INAUDIBLE] 00:01:39.280 --> 00:01:41.470 align:middle line:84% My work in language and linguistics 00:01:41.470 --> 00:01:43.180 align:middle line:90% really was by accident. 00:01:43.180 --> 00:01:47.710 align:middle line:90% My first language is O'odham. 00:01:47.710 --> 00:01:52.570 align:middle line:84% That's the only language we had in our household. 00:01:52.570 --> 00:01:55.780 align:middle line:84% And when I first came here to the university 00:01:55.780 --> 00:01:58.807 align:middle line:84% I found some publications at the university bookstore, 00:01:58.807 --> 00:01:59.890 align:middle line:90% and there was two of them. 00:01:59.890 --> 00:02:04.270 align:middle line:84% One was a little dictionary, a word list basically, 00:02:04.270 --> 00:02:07.000 align:middle line:84% called "Papago to English Dictionary," 00:02:07.000 --> 00:02:11.920 align:middle line:84% and the other one was "Legends and Lore of the Papago and Pima 00:02:11.920 --> 00:02:12.580 align:middle line:90% Indians." 00:02:12.580 --> 00:02:14.910 align:middle line:84% And they were both written-- one side was O'odham, 00:02:14.910 --> 00:02:16.150 align:middle line:90% one side was English. 00:02:16.150 --> 00:02:17.300 align:middle line:90% And I looked at it. 00:02:17.300 --> 00:02:20.140 align:middle line:84% I just assumed that because I can speak this language 00:02:20.140 --> 00:02:21.940 align:middle line:90% I should be able to read it. 00:02:21.940 --> 00:02:23.830 align:middle line:90% That does not happen. 00:02:23.830 --> 00:02:26.620 align:middle line:84% Somebody has to teach you the system that these things are 00:02:26.620 --> 00:02:27.550 align:middle line:90% written in. 00:02:27.550 --> 00:02:30.370 align:middle line:84% And so I sought out someone who had worked on O'odham here 00:02:30.370 --> 00:02:33.460 align:middle line:84% in our anthropology department, and he taught me 00:02:33.460 --> 00:02:36.160 align:middle line:90% how to read and write O'odham. 00:02:36.160 --> 00:02:40.000 align:middle line:84% And after that, I met totally by coincidence one 00:02:40.000 --> 00:02:43.270 align:middle line:84% of the most famous linguists, who has since passed away, 00:02:43.270 --> 00:02:47.560 align:middle line:84% who worked on O'odham and other Uto-Aztecan languages, 00:02:47.560 --> 00:02:50.380 align:middle line:84% languages related to O'odham, Dr. Ken Hale. 00:02:50.380 --> 00:02:53.920 align:middle line:84% He was visiting faculty then here. 00:02:53.920 --> 00:02:57.130 align:middle line:84% And also at the same time, the linguistics department 00:02:57.130 --> 00:02:58.760 align:middle line:90% was being created. 00:02:58.760 --> 00:03:02.530 align:middle line:84% And so it was all very fortuitous. 00:03:02.530 --> 00:03:05.050 align:middle line:84% I always consider myself to be one of those people who 00:03:05.050 --> 00:03:08.510 align:middle line:84% are always in the right place at the right time, 00:03:08.510 --> 00:03:11.710 align:middle line:84% and also sort of thoughtful enough 00:03:11.710 --> 00:03:15.560 align:middle line:84% to react when I was in those right places. 00:03:15.560 --> 00:03:19.720 align:middle line:84% And so Dr. Hale was very influential in getting 00:03:19.720 --> 00:03:23.740 align:middle line:84% me to think about working on O'odham, and all of that 00:03:23.740 --> 00:03:24.800 align:middle line:90% just evolved. 00:03:24.800 --> 00:03:29.230 align:middle line:84% And one of the reasons that I started writing poetry, 00:03:29.230 --> 00:03:30.970 align:middle line:84% when I first started writing it was just 00:03:30.970 --> 00:03:34.810 align:middle line:84% for my O'odham language students because we need stuff to read. 00:03:34.810 --> 00:03:37.930 align:middle line:84% As you know, most American Indian languages 00:03:37.930 --> 00:03:41.500 align:middle line:84% for classroom teaching has very limited materials 00:03:41.500 --> 00:03:42.530 align:middle line:90% and resources. 00:03:42.530 --> 00:03:44.710 align:middle line:84% So as I was teaching language here 00:03:44.710 --> 00:03:47.080 align:middle line:84% I had to create material as I taught. 00:03:47.080 --> 00:03:49.540 align:middle line:84% And one of the things that we just happened upon 00:03:49.540 --> 00:03:51.640 align:middle line:84% was to try and write some short pieces. 00:03:51.640 --> 00:03:54.250 align:middle line:84% And we started writing poetry for each other, 00:03:54.250 --> 00:03:57.190 align:middle line:84% and we got published, too, myself and my students 00:03:57.190 --> 00:03:58.982 align:middle line:90% back in the early '80s. 00:03:58.982 --> 00:04:02.800 align:middle line:84% And it just sort of evolved from there. 00:04:02.800 --> 00:04:05.410 align:middle line:84% And some of my students still write along with me 00:04:05.410 --> 00:04:06.928 align:middle line:90% at different points. 00:04:06.928 --> 00:04:08.095 align:middle line:90% Thank you for your question. 00:04:08.095 --> 00:04:17.050 align:middle line:90% 00:04:17.050 --> 00:04:20.166 align:middle line:90% Well, thank you both very much. 00:04:20.166 --> 00:04:23.630 align:middle line:84% I'm sorry, do you have questions? 00:04:23.630 --> 00:04:30.046 align:middle line:84% Just I was going to ask Ofelia I often wrote [INAUDIBLE].. 00:04:30.046 --> 00:04:33.860 align:middle line:90% 00:04:33.860 --> 00:04:36.903 align:middle line:84% I want to know are there any other [INAUDIBLE] 00:04:36.903 --> 00:04:38.755 align:middle line:84% poets that you know of or writers 00:04:38.755 --> 00:04:47.600 align:middle line:84% who are writing in your native language? 00:04:47.600 --> 00:04:52.250 align:middle line:90% I'm looking for [INAUDIBLE]. 00:04:52.250 --> 00:04:53.270 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:04:53.270 --> 00:04:56.355 align:middle line:90% Yeah, so my friend [? 00:04:56.355 --> 00:04:59.240 align:middle line:84% Sherwin wants to know ?}, there are other O'odham writers out 00:04:59.240 --> 00:05:00.850 align:middle line:90% there. 00:05:00.850 --> 00:05:03.670 align:middle line:84% We had one in Mr. Lopez, Daniel Lopez, 00:05:03.670 --> 00:05:05.280 align:middle line:90% who only recently passed away. 00:05:05.280 --> 00:05:07.520 align:middle line:84% He published with us early on, too, 00:05:07.520 --> 00:05:11.090 align:middle line:84% and he continued to write up to his death. 00:05:11.090 --> 00:05:12.902 align:middle line:84% And some of his students have been writing. 00:05:12.902 --> 00:05:15.110 align:middle line:84% They're just very hard to find because a lot of times 00:05:15.110 --> 00:05:17.600 align:middle line:84% they won't admit that they do that, 00:05:17.600 --> 00:05:20.930 align:middle line:84% so you do have to ask them in a certain way 00:05:20.930 --> 00:05:22.220 align:middle line:90% and they will come forward. 00:05:22.220 --> 00:05:27.920 align:middle line:84% But the language I think lends itself to poetry very well, 00:05:27.920 --> 00:05:30.410 align:middle line:84% both in the first language and also they 00:05:30.410 --> 00:05:32.390 align:middle line:90% respond to the English forms. 00:05:32.390 --> 00:05:34.955 align:middle line:84% And so I think there are some that 00:05:34.955 --> 00:05:39.660 align:middle line:84% are just difficult to locate unfortunately. 00:05:39.660 --> 00:05:43.000 align:middle line:84% So I can help you beat some bushes and find some. 00:05:43.000 --> 00:05:43.500 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:05:43.500 --> 00:05:46.600 align:middle line:90% 00:05:46.600 --> 00:05:49.130 align:middle line:90% I have a question for Chris. 00:05:49.130 --> 00:05:53.710 align:middle line:84% I noticed a lot of poems you write today deal with the self. 00:05:53.710 --> 00:05:55.980 align:middle line:90% You know, what is the self? 00:05:55.980 --> 00:05:58.410 align:middle line:84% And I wondered if you could speak 00:05:58.410 --> 00:06:03.976 align:middle line:84% to how that concept relates to your study of Buddhism 00:06:03.976 --> 00:06:04.888 align:middle line:90% if it does. 00:06:04.888 --> 00:06:08.500 align:middle line:90% 00:06:08.500 --> 00:06:09.000 align:middle line:90% Is that on? 00:06:09.000 --> 00:06:09.870 align:middle line:90% It's dead. 00:06:09.870 --> 00:06:11.490 align:middle line:90% It's dead. 00:06:11.490 --> 00:06:13.710 align:middle line:90% Did everybody hear that? 00:06:13.710 --> 00:06:15.550 align:middle line:84% Write about the self and [INAUDIBLE]?? 00:06:15.550 --> 00:06:18.210 align:middle line:90% 00:06:18.210 --> 00:06:22.200 align:middle line:84% Well, Sandy asked because I seem to write 00:06:22.200 --> 00:06:25.590 align:middle line:84% a lot about the self and the poems I did read today 00:06:25.590 --> 00:06:32.670 align:middle line:84% are quite a bit, how does my Buddhist practice influence 00:06:32.670 --> 00:06:34.650 align:middle line:90% what I'm writing in my poetry? 00:06:34.650 --> 00:06:39.330 align:middle line:90% Well, in a sense, very much. 00:06:39.330 --> 00:06:42.990 align:middle line:84% This idea of the self as being a fixed thing, as being 00:06:42.990 --> 00:06:49.260 align:middle line:84% a continual entity, is, according to Buddhism, 00:06:49.260 --> 00:06:52.450 align:middle line:84% illusory, and so the self arises and drops away. 00:06:52.450 --> 00:06:55.890 align:middle line:84% It's a process of resurrection and dying. 00:06:55.890 --> 00:07:01.680 align:middle line:84% So what I'm exploring actually within each poem 00:07:01.680 --> 00:07:06.510 align:middle line:84% is this idea of this arising and falling away 00:07:06.510 --> 00:07:16.950 align:middle line:84% and how that really leads away from this idea of things 00:07:16.950 --> 00:07:20.160 align:middle line:90% in life, reality, being fixed. 00:07:20.160 --> 00:07:22.890 align:middle line:90% There's other things involved. 00:07:22.890 --> 00:07:26.430 align:middle line:84% The way my teacher teaches about the self and the nature 00:07:26.430 --> 00:07:30.900 align:middle line:84% of the self is in regards to these two activities 00:07:30.900 --> 00:07:35.070 align:middle line:84% of expansion and contraction that happen simultaneously. 00:07:35.070 --> 00:07:37.800 align:middle line:84% It's a manifestation of the breath. 00:07:37.800 --> 00:07:40.560 align:middle line:84% As you breathe in, you're also exhaling. 00:07:40.560 --> 00:07:43.950 align:middle line:84% As you inhale, you're exhaling, too. 00:07:43.950 --> 00:07:46.290 align:middle line:84% And that's a way of understanding. 00:07:46.290 --> 00:07:49.053 align:middle line:84% Through this contemplative act, it's 00:07:49.053 --> 00:07:50.970 align:middle line:84% a way of understanding the nature of the self. 00:07:50.970 --> 00:07:56.610 align:middle line:84% And so long story short, I think that's what I'm exploring 00:07:56.610 --> 00:07:58.620 align:middle line:90% is this idea of self. 00:07:58.620 --> 00:08:00.900 align:middle line:84% To me I think that's inexhaustible. 00:08:00.900 --> 00:08:06.400 align:middle line:90% 00:08:06.400 --> 00:08:07.552 align:middle line:90% Yes. 00:08:07.552 --> 00:08:12.646 align:middle line:84% Ofelia, you mentioned in your poem that language [INAUDIBLE].. 00:08:12.646 --> 00:08:20.010 align:middle line:90% 00:08:20.010 --> 00:08:25.200 align:middle line:84% You also just briefly mentioned other writers 00:08:25.200 --> 00:08:27.690 align:middle line:84% who have to ask it a right way because they [INAUDIBLE].. 00:08:27.690 --> 00:08:30.880 align:middle line:90% 00:08:30.880 --> 00:08:33.350 align:middle line:84% In the process of taking your language and putting 00:08:33.350 --> 00:08:37.760 align:middle line:84% [INAUDIBLE],, I don't want to say is there less difficulty, 00:08:37.760 --> 00:08:39.760 align:middle line:90% but what is lost? 00:08:39.760 --> 00:08:44.039 align:middle line:84% What is the struggle with putting your language 00:08:44.039 --> 00:08:48.510 align:middle line:90% into this other form? 00:08:48.510 --> 00:08:51.980 align:middle line:84% The question was what is lost over the process of putting 00:08:51.980 --> 00:08:57.243 align:middle line:90% the O'odham language into print? 00:08:57.243 --> 00:08:58.910 align:middle line:84% Well, I don't like to think that there's 00:08:58.910 --> 00:09:02.420 align:middle line:84% something lost because what happens when 00:09:02.420 --> 00:09:05.690 align:middle line:84% I'm writing in O'odham is that the whole process starts 00:09:05.690 --> 00:09:06.710 align:middle line:90% in O'odham. 00:09:06.710 --> 00:09:12.680 align:middle line:84% So I can see if you were talking about translation where there's 00:09:12.680 --> 00:09:16.040 align:middle line:84% a certain level that you go through to move from one 00:09:16.040 --> 00:09:19.370 align:middle line:84% language to the other depending on the piece, of course, 00:09:19.370 --> 00:09:20.390 align:middle line:90% or the pieces. 00:09:20.390 --> 00:09:25.190 align:middle line:84% But for me, I create the O'odham pieces, 00:09:25.190 --> 00:09:27.020 align:middle line:84% if they're going to be in O'odham, 00:09:27.020 --> 00:09:31.290 align:middle line:84% the whole idea, everything, starts in that language. 00:09:31.290 --> 00:09:35.360 align:middle line:84% I'm thinking about it, trying out words, trying out phrases, 00:09:35.360 --> 00:09:40.280 align:middle line:84% and so forth, and figuring out how it all fits together, 00:09:40.280 --> 00:09:47.630 align:middle line:84% and saying it out loud to see if it all flows well. 00:09:47.630 --> 00:09:50.210 align:middle line:84% I know the piece that I read that 00:09:50.210 --> 00:09:55.070 align:middle line:84% was an O'odham is sort of very strongly influenced 00:09:55.070 --> 00:10:00.830 align:middle line:84% by a traditional O'odham song, and so I borrowed 00:10:00.830 --> 00:10:03.230 align:middle line:90% some concepts from that. 00:10:03.230 --> 00:10:06.710 align:middle line:90% I did try to translate the song. 00:10:06.710 --> 00:10:10.250 align:middle line:84% I sort of took the idea of how the song works 00:10:10.250 --> 00:10:13.970 align:middle line:84% and the content that the song is about 00:10:13.970 --> 00:10:17.700 align:middle line:90% and put it in my own piece. 00:10:17.700 --> 00:10:21.890 align:middle line:84% So I think if I tried to move the song over, 00:10:21.890 --> 00:10:26.510 align:middle line:84% certainly it wouldn't be the same piece anymore. 00:10:26.510 --> 00:10:32.700 align:middle line:84% I know that and I'm very sensitive to that. 00:10:32.700 --> 00:10:34.340 align:middle line:84% Then like I said, I think the reason 00:10:34.340 --> 00:10:38.060 align:middle line:84% that I don't feel that there's a gap 00:10:38.060 --> 00:10:39.890 align:middle line:84% or that there's something lost is 00:10:39.890 --> 00:10:44.780 align:middle line:84% because I do that initial creation in the first language. 00:10:44.780 --> 00:10:46.231 align:middle line:90% Thank you for your question. 00:10:46.231 --> 00:10:49.668 align:middle line:90% 00:10:49.668 --> 00:10:53.105 align:middle line:90% [INAUDIBLE] 00:10:53.105 --> 00:10:55.080 align:middle line:90% 00:10:55.080 --> 00:11:01.880 align:middle line:84% That's a really hard question simply because I began life 00:11:01.880 --> 00:11:04.830 align:middle line:84% speaking Icelandic, and then I lost it 00:11:04.830 --> 00:11:06.710 align:middle line:84% after coming to the United States, in a way. 00:11:06.710 --> 00:11:10.350 align:middle line:84% I mean, it no longer became my primary language. 00:11:10.350 --> 00:11:14.030 align:middle line:84% I have moments and times in dream 00:11:14.030 --> 00:11:15.860 align:middle line:84% where I'm speaking Icelandic again. 00:11:15.860 --> 00:11:20.060 align:middle line:84% And when I go home, I struggle a bit at first 00:11:20.060 --> 00:11:21.270 align:middle line:90% to get back into it. 00:11:21.270 --> 00:11:25.160 align:middle line:84% So I haven't ever written in Icelandic 00:11:25.160 --> 00:11:27.260 align:middle line:90% and then translated it over. 00:11:27.260 --> 00:11:31.080 align:middle line:90% 00:11:31.080 --> 00:11:36.120 align:middle line:84% I do know that in my translations of Jóhann's work, 00:11:36.120 --> 00:11:37.050 align:middle line:90% I read the poem. 00:11:37.050 --> 00:11:42.060 align:middle line:84% I read it until I begin hearing him. 00:11:42.060 --> 00:11:45.930 align:middle line:84% And there's some kind of alchemical process 00:11:45.930 --> 00:11:47.880 align:middle line:84% that I begin hearing it in English. 00:11:47.880 --> 00:11:54.630 align:middle line:84% And so my [INAUDIBLE] is the first draft of the translation, 00:11:54.630 --> 00:11:58.920 align:middle line:84% is pretty close to what my final translation is. 00:11:58.920 --> 00:12:01.810 align:middle line:84% There is some word tweaking and revision that happens, 00:12:01.810 --> 00:12:02.850 align:middle line:90% but it's not a major. 00:12:02.850 --> 00:12:07.570 align:middle line:90% So I don't know if that's-- 00:12:07.570 --> 00:12:08.070 align:middle line:90% is that? 00:12:08.070 --> 00:12:08.570 align:middle line:90% OK. 00:12:08.570 --> 00:12:12.120 align:middle line:90% 00:12:12.120 --> 00:12:12.960 align:middle line:90% One more question. 00:12:12.960 --> 00:12:14.620 align:middle line:90% Last question, please. 00:12:14.620 --> 00:12:19.800 align:middle line:84% Ofelia, you said that O'odham was the language of your home. 00:12:19.800 --> 00:12:21.990 align:middle line:84% Did you also speak English as a young child 00:12:21.990 --> 00:12:24.630 align:middle line:90% or did that come later? 00:12:24.630 --> 00:12:27.630 align:middle line:84% It came later when I went to school. 00:12:27.630 --> 00:12:29.850 align:middle line:84% And I went to school late, so probably 00:12:29.850 --> 00:12:32.100 align:middle line:90% about eight years old or so. 00:12:32.100 --> 00:12:35.040 align:middle line:84% So it probably wasn't until between eight and nine years 00:12:35.040 --> 00:12:38.220 align:middle line:84% old that I learned to speak English. 00:12:38.220 --> 00:12:41.580 align:middle line:84% And my only first English-speaking models 00:12:41.580 --> 00:12:46.950 align:middle line:84% were my teachers and people whose first language 00:12:46.950 --> 00:12:47.940 align:middle line:90% was English. 00:12:47.940 --> 00:12:51.652 align:middle line:84% And you went home, you sort of left it on the bus. 00:12:51.652 --> 00:12:55.380 align:middle line:90% At home you went to O'odham. 00:12:55.380 --> 00:12:57.860 align:middle line:90% Thank you for your question. 00:12:57.860 --> 00:13:00.310 align:middle line:90% Thank you very much.