WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.610 align:middle line:90% 00:00:03.610 --> 00:00:06.050 align:middle line:90% Thank you guys so very much. 00:00:06.050 --> 00:00:08.380 align:middle line:84% We have a few minutes for questions. 00:00:08.380 --> 00:00:10.570 align:middle line:84% And, I'm going to hand these people the mic. 00:00:10.570 --> 00:00:13.800 align:middle line:90% 00:00:13.800 --> 00:00:14.300 align:middle line:90% Yes? 00:00:14.300 --> 00:00:16.940 align:middle line:90% 00:00:16.940 --> 00:00:19.370 align:middle line:84% How did you feel when you got your first book of poems 00:00:19.370 --> 00:00:20.540 align:middle line:90% published? 00:00:20.540 --> 00:00:24.140 align:middle line:84% Oh, I asked somebody to put a rock on my head 00:00:24.140 --> 00:00:25.970 align:middle line:90% because I was jumping so high. 00:00:25.970 --> 00:00:27.890 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:00:27.890 --> 00:00:33.200 align:middle line:84% I felt really, really, good, and really scared at the same time, 00:00:33.200 --> 00:00:36.890 align:middle line:84% to tell you the truth, because I was afraid 00:00:36.890 --> 00:00:40.160 align:middle line:90% that people wouldn't like it. 00:00:40.160 --> 00:00:41.570 align:middle line:90% Do you feel that way sometimes? 00:00:41.570 --> 00:00:45.440 align:middle line:90% You're just so happy and then-- 00:00:45.440 --> 00:00:47.640 align:middle line:90% But, it was so beautiful. 00:00:47.640 --> 00:00:49.550 align:middle line:84% It was like having a new baby in my hand. 00:00:49.550 --> 00:00:54.160 align:middle line:90% 00:00:54.160 --> 00:00:56.380 align:middle line:84% I have a related question for Jonathan. 00:00:56.380 --> 00:00:58.720 align:middle line:90% Your book came out in 2009. 00:00:58.720 --> 00:00:59.920 align:middle line:90% So, just recently. 00:00:59.920 --> 00:01:03.190 align:middle line:84% And, I like that because I'm a little bit of a late bloomer. 00:01:03.190 --> 00:01:05.200 align:middle line:84% Or actually, maybe I'm just a pending bloomer. 00:01:05.200 --> 00:01:06.280 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:01:06.280 --> 00:01:09.190 align:middle line:84% And, I just wondered if you would share your story of how 00:01:09.190 --> 00:01:10.510 align:middle line:90% your book got published. 00:01:10.510 --> 00:01:14.710 align:middle line:90% 00:01:14.710 --> 00:01:15.250 align:middle line:90% Briefly-- 00:01:15.250 --> 00:01:18.550 align:middle line:84% I probably-- speaking of late bloomer, 00:01:18.550 --> 00:01:23.950 align:middle line:84% I probably started writing poetry seven years ago. 00:01:23.950 --> 00:01:28.240 align:middle line:84% And, wrote, and wrote, and wrote, and collected, 00:01:28.240 --> 00:01:32.440 align:middle line:84% and collected, and collected, and sent-off, and sent-off, 00:01:32.440 --> 00:01:36.250 align:middle line:84% and sent-off, and upon occasion would get somebody 00:01:36.250 --> 00:01:37.420 align:middle line:90% to acknowledge something. 00:01:37.420 --> 00:01:44.050 align:middle line:84% But, in any event, I was told about a local publisher, 00:01:44.050 --> 00:01:45.460 align:middle line:90% Charles Alexander. 00:01:45.460 --> 00:01:49.660 align:middle line:84% And, I took my stuff to him, and-- not really 00:01:49.660 --> 00:01:51.340 align:middle line:84% with a sense of publishing it, but more 00:01:51.340 --> 00:01:54.100 align:middle line:84% of a sense of, will you look at this, will 00:01:54.100 --> 00:01:56.630 align:middle line:84% you give me feedback-- help me with it? 00:01:56.630 --> 00:02:02.610 align:middle line:84% And, we went through that for probably a year. 00:02:02.610 --> 00:02:11.660 align:middle line:84% And, at some point I talked to him about publishing and-- 00:02:11.660 --> 00:02:14.150 align:middle line:84% actually he's an interesting guy because what he does 00:02:14.150 --> 00:02:18.260 align:middle line:84% is not what we do because we're more narrative, 00:02:18.260 --> 00:02:20.240 align:middle line:84% and he's kind of a language poet. 00:02:20.240 --> 00:02:21.920 align:middle line:90% And, so he was hesitant. 00:02:21.920 --> 00:02:23.810 align:middle line:84% And, we just worked and worked and worked. 00:02:23.810 --> 00:02:26.000 align:middle line:84% And, finally one day, he said, I've 00:02:26.000 --> 00:02:27.890 align:middle line:84% shown this to enough people and I 00:02:27.890 --> 00:02:29.660 align:middle line:90% think it's something we can do. 00:02:29.660 --> 00:02:32.450 align:middle line:90% And, I was-- that's fantastic. 00:02:32.450 --> 00:02:34.570 align:middle line:90% And, so I owe him a lot. 00:02:34.570 --> 00:02:37.070 align:middle line:84% And, it just gives you a sense of accomplishment-- an answer 00:02:37.070 --> 00:02:39.920 align:middle line:84% to your question, it's just a sense 00:02:39.920 --> 00:02:41.510 align:middle line:84% of putting something all together 00:02:41.510 --> 00:02:44.210 align:middle line:84% and really feeling good about it. 00:02:44.210 --> 00:02:44.840 align:middle line:90% Thank you. 00:02:44.840 --> 00:02:49.050 align:middle line:90% 00:02:49.050 --> 00:02:52.660 align:middle line:90% I loved your, pending bloomer. 00:02:52.660 --> 00:02:53.860 align:middle line:90% Any other questions? 00:02:53.860 --> 00:02:59.200 align:middle line:90% 00:02:59.200 --> 00:03:00.067 align:middle line:90% There's one. 00:03:00.067 --> 00:03:01.440 align:middle line:90% I'll ask Jonathan-- 00:03:01.440 --> 00:03:02.402 align:middle line:90% Oh god. 00:03:02.402 --> 00:03:06.760 align:middle line:84% [INAUDIBLE] about you were an attorney-- 00:03:06.760 --> 00:03:11.590 align:middle line:84% an attorney, and a community activist, and a poet. 00:03:11.590 --> 00:03:14.620 align:middle line:84% And, I know you through the-- not through the latter 00:03:14.620 --> 00:03:17.590 align:middle line:84% role until this morning, or until I saw your book 00:03:17.590 --> 00:03:20.770 align:middle line:90% a couple of months ago. 00:03:20.770 --> 00:03:24.370 align:middle line:84% I just have to ask you how these parts of you live. 00:03:24.370 --> 00:03:27.380 align:middle line:84% And, are they are they compartment-- 00:03:27.380 --> 00:03:30.880 align:middle line:84% I mean obviously you, and so you're you wherever you are, 00:03:30.880 --> 00:03:33.880 align:middle line:84% but I'm just curious if you could talk a little bit 00:03:33.880 --> 00:03:36.130 align:middle line:84% about whether there are sort of compartments 00:03:36.130 --> 00:03:41.740 align:middle line:84% where you put parts of your persona and your soul. 00:03:41.740 --> 00:03:43.495 align:middle line:84% Yeah, they definitely live separately. 00:03:43.495 --> 00:03:46.840 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:03:46.840 --> 00:03:55.090 align:middle line:84% But, an answer to a different question, which is, where you-- 00:03:55.090 --> 00:03:59.170 align:middle line:84% or how you would find the poetry part of it. 00:03:59.170 --> 00:04:02.290 align:middle line:84% I mean, it obviously can happen at any time 00:04:02.290 --> 00:04:05.410 align:middle line:84% of the day, or any place, or anything you see, 00:04:05.410 --> 00:04:07.640 align:middle line:84% or an expression that comes into your head. 00:04:07.640 --> 00:04:11.620 align:middle line:84% But, you do have to find some time separate 00:04:11.620 --> 00:04:14.380 align:middle line:84% and apart from everything, and be away from everything 00:04:14.380 --> 00:04:16.750 align:middle line:84% to focus on it and put it together. 00:04:16.750 --> 00:04:20.110 align:middle line:84% So, yeah-- to that extent, I don't 00:04:20.110 --> 00:04:22.120 align:middle line:84% stop in the middle of the day, that's for sure. 00:04:22.120 --> 00:04:31.810 align:middle line:90% 00:04:31.810 --> 00:04:33.760 align:middle line:90% How old were you when you-- 00:04:33.760 --> 00:04:34.780 align:middle line:90% this is for both of you. 00:04:34.780 --> 00:04:37.210 align:middle line:84% How old were you when you wanted to become a poet 00:04:37.210 --> 00:04:39.520 align:middle line:90% and get your stuff published? 00:04:39.520 --> 00:04:40.775 align:middle line:90% 12 00:04:40.775 --> 00:04:43.630 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:04:43.630 --> 00:04:45.910 align:middle line:90% I remember writing-- 00:04:45.910 --> 00:04:49.990 align:middle line:84% I've always written, and I've always sketched. 00:04:49.990 --> 00:04:51.880 align:middle line:90% I love art. 00:04:51.880 --> 00:04:56.500 align:middle line:84% I always carry around a sketchbook and a writing pad. 00:04:56.500 --> 00:04:59.350 align:middle line:84% But, when I was 12 I wrote a poem that was probably 00:04:59.350 --> 00:05:02.260 align:middle line:90% a pretty awful poem. 00:05:02.260 --> 00:05:04.540 align:middle line:90% And, I brought it home. 00:05:04.540 --> 00:05:05.740 align:middle line:90% And I got an A on it. 00:05:05.740 --> 00:05:08.380 align:middle line:84% It was like, whoa, I got an A on a poem. 00:05:08.380 --> 00:05:10.630 align:middle line:84% And I brought it home, and my dad, 00:05:10.630 --> 00:05:14.200 align:middle line:84% who was a factory worker and not educated in those 00:05:14.200 --> 00:05:17.350 align:middle line:84% kinds of ways and literature, read that poem 00:05:17.350 --> 00:05:22.510 align:middle line:84% and he said, if I could if I could make anything like this, 00:05:22.510 --> 00:05:24.490 align:middle line:90% I'd be proud of myself. 00:05:24.490 --> 00:05:26.230 align:middle line:84% And I thought, this is what I want to do. 00:05:26.230 --> 00:05:28.900 align:middle line:90% 00:05:28.900 --> 00:05:31.270 align:middle line:84% Mine was probably a little later, but actually not that 00:05:31.270 --> 00:05:33.070 align:middle line:90% much. 00:05:33.070 --> 00:05:36.040 align:middle line:84% 18, 19, 20, when I went to college 00:05:36.040 --> 00:05:41.448 align:middle line:84% and started being exposed to poetry 00:05:41.448 --> 00:05:43.240 align:middle line:84% and thought it would be a neat thing to do. 00:05:43.240 --> 00:05:46.600 align:middle line:84% And actually, wrote a little poetry in college 00:05:46.600 --> 00:05:49.060 align:middle line:90% and was published in a college-- 00:05:49.060 --> 00:05:50.530 align:middle line:90% the college journals. 00:05:50.530 --> 00:05:53.282 align:middle line:84% And then, after I got out of college 00:05:53.282 --> 00:05:55.240 align:middle line:84% I thought maybe I would do something like that. 00:05:55.240 --> 00:05:59.560 align:middle line:84% And then, I drifted away from it and I really always wanted 00:05:59.560 --> 00:06:00.710 align:middle line:90% to come back to it. 00:06:00.710 --> 00:06:04.760 align:middle line:90% So, I was able to. 00:06:04.760 --> 00:06:08.240 align:middle line:84% Yeah, I think writing is a compulsive activity. 00:06:08.240 --> 00:06:13.490 align:middle line:84% Definitely helps to be obsessive compulsive because it's 00:06:13.490 --> 00:06:16.160 align:middle line:84% something that becomes part of your soul 00:06:16.160 --> 00:06:17.870 align:middle line:90% and you can't not do it then. 00:06:17.870 --> 00:06:20.750 align:middle line:90% 00:06:20.750 --> 00:06:23.390 align:middle line:84% Pam you lived in a lot of different places. 00:06:23.390 --> 00:06:28.347 align:middle line:84% Could you talk about how place affects your work? 00:06:28.347 --> 00:06:29.930 align:middle line:84% I mean, you've been on the East Coast, 00:06:29.930 --> 00:06:33.050 align:middle line:84% you've been up here, in Oracle, Montana, 00:06:33.050 --> 00:06:34.820 align:middle line:84% and now you're living in Colorado. 00:06:34.820 --> 00:06:37.610 align:middle line:84% So, could you just say something about that? 00:06:37.610 --> 00:06:40.190 align:middle line:84% Yeah, I can't because, Heidi, I'm 00:06:40.190 --> 00:06:44.490 align:middle line:84% very affected by land, and creatures, and the things 00:06:44.490 --> 00:06:44.990 align:middle line:90% around. 00:06:44.990 --> 00:06:48.890 align:middle line:84% One thing that struck me at a poetry reading 00:06:48.890 --> 00:06:53.060 align:middle line:84% when I was younger was something that Gary Snyder said, 00:06:53.060 --> 00:06:56.180 align:middle line:84% and he said, you really don't know-- 00:06:56.180 --> 00:06:59.750 align:middle line:84% you don't really know where you live unless the creatures who 00:06:59.750 --> 00:07:01.220 align:middle line:90% are living there with you. 00:07:01.220 --> 00:07:03.920 align:middle line:84% And, all the-- he was including plants, 00:07:03.920 --> 00:07:06.140 align:middle line:84% and the spirits of the sky, and the rocks, 00:07:06.140 --> 00:07:08.850 align:middle line:90% and all of that stuff. 00:07:08.850 --> 00:07:10.370 align:middle line:84% And, what I'm taught by my students 00:07:10.370 --> 00:07:11.930 align:middle line:90% all the time at Fort Lewis-- 00:07:11.930 --> 00:07:14.570 align:middle line:84% because we have 125 tribes represented 00:07:14.570 --> 00:07:16.010 align:middle line:90% in our student body-- 00:07:16.010 --> 00:07:17.690 align:middle line:90% is that connection. 00:07:17.690 --> 00:07:20.270 align:middle line:84% That connection between the Earth. 00:07:20.270 --> 00:07:22.700 align:middle line:84% There is nothing separated between you 00:07:22.700 --> 00:07:24.050 align:middle line:90% and the creatures in the Earth. 00:07:24.050 --> 00:07:27.800 align:middle line:84% And so, everything around me affects me emotionally-- 00:07:27.800 --> 00:07:29.360 align:middle line:90% incredibly emotionally. 00:07:29.360 --> 00:07:33.020 align:middle line:84% I could cry when I see a hummingbird because I know 00:07:33.020 --> 00:07:37.010 align:middle line:84% that hummingbird is a bird, but it's also a spirit, 00:07:37.010 --> 00:07:38.660 align:middle line:90% and it's also-- 00:07:38.660 --> 00:07:43.880 align:middle line:84% there's so many levels layering, and levels of things. 00:07:43.880 --> 00:07:47.420 align:middle line:84% When I lived in North Carolina, I wrote about ghosts 00:07:47.420 --> 00:07:49.140 align:middle line:90% and I wrote about slavery. 00:07:49.140 --> 00:07:50.990 align:middle line:84% And, I don't know much about those things, 00:07:50.990 --> 00:07:52.700 align:middle line:90% but it affected me. 00:07:52.700 --> 00:07:54.860 align:middle line:90% The land itself affected me. 00:07:54.860 --> 00:07:56.540 align:middle line:84% And when I lived in New York it felt 00:07:56.540 --> 00:07:59.150 align:middle line:90% like the ground was crying-- 00:07:59.150 --> 00:08:03.920 align:middle line:84% that the ground was soaked in blood and was crying. 00:08:03.920 --> 00:08:07.160 align:middle line:84% The West doesn't feel like that to me. 00:08:07.160 --> 00:08:18.000 align:middle line:90% 00:08:18.000 --> 00:08:19.140 align:middle line:90% I have a question for Pam. 00:08:19.140 --> 00:08:21.750 align:middle line:90% 00:08:21.750 --> 00:08:24.600 align:middle line:84% How did you feel when your mom died? 00:08:24.600 --> 00:08:28.920 align:middle line:84% Oh, well you know, it was such a mix of feelings. 00:08:28.920 --> 00:08:31.655 align:middle line:84% At first, I was so happy that we could all 00:08:31.655 --> 00:08:33.030 align:middle line:84% be there and tell her how much we 00:08:33.030 --> 00:08:35.880 align:middle line:90% loved her-- and we kept joking. 00:08:35.880 --> 00:08:38.159 align:middle line:90% And, this is sort of funny. 00:08:38.159 --> 00:08:40.650 align:middle line:90% Do you have a sister? 00:08:40.650 --> 00:08:45.025 align:middle line:84% OK, so we were picking on my one sister. 00:08:45.025 --> 00:08:45.900 align:middle line:90% I have three sisters. 00:08:45.900 --> 00:08:48.960 align:middle line:84% So my sister, Val, and I were picking on my sister, Judy, 00:08:48.960 --> 00:08:52.680 align:middle line:84% and we were remembering this embarrassing event 00:08:52.680 --> 00:08:55.360 align:middle line:84% when she was young, and that's when my mom died. 00:08:55.360 --> 00:08:59.490 align:middle line:84% And so, it was a really funny moment on one hand, 00:08:59.490 --> 00:09:03.840 align:middle line:84% and it was so beautiful because she was peaceful. 00:09:03.840 --> 00:09:05.850 align:middle line:90% And, it wasn't scary. 00:09:05.850 --> 00:09:08.490 align:middle line:84% She was just very peaceful, and she went. 00:09:08.490 --> 00:09:13.130 align:middle line:84% And then, afterwards, I got very sad. 00:09:13.130 --> 00:09:14.880 align:middle line:84% My other sisters, when we brought her down 00:09:14.880 --> 00:09:17.640 align:middle line:84% from the mountain, we went and bought all of the roses 00:09:17.640 --> 00:09:19.530 align:middle line:90% in the Safeway store next door. 00:09:19.530 --> 00:09:24.670 align:middle line:84% And, we put rose petals all over her, just to honor her. 00:09:24.670 --> 00:09:30.700 align:middle line:84% And then, when they took her body away, it made me very sad. 00:09:30.700 --> 00:09:32.500 align:middle line:90% And then, I was very sad. 00:09:32.500 --> 00:09:36.952 align:middle line:90% 00:09:36.952 --> 00:09:38.410 align:middle line:84% We have time for one more question. 00:09:38.410 --> 00:09:58.923 align:middle line:90% 00:09:58.923 --> 00:10:00.840 align:middle line:84% I'm just wondering if you think of an audience 00:10:00.840 --> 00:10:02.400 align:middle line:90% when you're writing? 00:10:02.400 --> 00:10:05.955 align:middle line:84% In particular, if that's something you consider? 00:10:05.955 --> 00:10:08.780 align:middle line:90% 00:10:08.780 --> 00:10:09.375 align:middle line:90% Good question. 00:10:09.375 --> 00:10:14.490 align:middle line:90% 00:10:14.490 --> 00:10:18.600 align:middle line:90% It's an audience of one, or two. 00:10:18.600 --> 00:10:24.240 align:middle line:84% You're writing, somewhat, for the page. 00:10:24.240 --> 00:10:26.850 align:middle line:84% So, you're writing somewhat for yourself. 00:10:26.850 --> 00:10:32.880 align:middle line:84% At the same time, you've got to somehow envision a listener. 00:10:32.880 --> 00:10:34.950 align:middle line:90% So, at least my method-- 00:10:34.950 --> 00:10:38.160 align:middle line:84% or what I do-- might be different for other people, 00:10:38.160 --> 00:10:42.580 align:middle line:84% but it's putting things together. 00:10:42.580 --> 00:10:47.220 align:middle line:84% And, when you know you have a poem is when you read it 00:10:47.220 --> 00:10:50.910 align:middle line:84% through, and you're done-- after maybe a lot of editing-- 00:10:50.910 --> 00:10:53.880 align:middle line:90% and you go, this is it. 00:10:53.880 --> 00:10:55.260 align:middle line:90% This is complete. 00:10:55.260 --> 00:11:01.370 align:middle line:84% And so, at that point it's a self-satisfaction first, 00:11:01.370 --> 00:11:05.690 align:middle line:84% and then it's a reader, and then it's an audience. 00:11:05.690 --> 00:11:09.300 align:middle line:84% But, the audience is really third, to tell you the truth. 00:11:09.300 --> 00:11:14.330 align:middle line:84% It's really first for self, and maybe one. 00:11:14.330 --> 00:11:18.840 align:middle line:90% 00:11:18.840 --> 00:11:24.210 align:middle line:84% The best poems always come unbidden, and they're always-- 00:11:24.210 --> 00:11:27.540 align:middle line:84% I don't like to use-- all the inspiration is breathing in. 00:11:27.540 --> 00:11:36.210 align:middle line:84% And, the voice that comes is the best possible part of myself, 00:11:36.210 --> 00:11:41.190 align:middle line:84% that escapes myself, that escapes the every day petty 00:11:41.190 --> 00:11:43.470 align:middle line:90% person that I can be. 00:11:43.470 --> 00:11:46.170 align:middle line:84% When I'm really writing, and I'm writing well, 00:11:46.170 --> 00:11:48.480 align:middle line:84% I don't think about audience at all. 00:11:48.480 --> 00:11:49.350 align:middle line:90% I don't think. 00:11:49.350 --> 00:11:51.090 align:middle line:90% I don't even try. 00:11:51.090 --> 00:11:52.320 align:middle line:90% I just don't think. 00:11:52.320 --> 00:11:57.360 align:middle line:84% I'm in a different, intuitive kind of space. 00:11:57.360 --> 00:12:01.980 align:middle line:90% And then, when I'm revising-- 00:12:01.980 --> 00:12:06.870 align:middle line:84% I want my poems to be accessible enough for people 00:12:06.870 --> 00:12:09.030 align:middle line:90% to hear and to read. 00:12:09.030 --> 00:12:12.190 align:middle line:84% I come from a family of real storytellers. 00:12:12.190 --> 00:12:15.240 align:middle line:84% So, storytelling is very important to me. 00:12:15.240 --> 00:12:17.400 align:middle line:84% My grandma was Czech, my grandpa was Russian. 00:12:17.400 --> 00:12:21.120 align:middle line:84% They're a very, very storytelling kind of culture-- 00:12:21.120 --> 00:12:24.170 align:middle line:90% and musical. 00:12:24.170 --> 00:12:26.100 align:middle line:90% I hear music all the time. 00:12:26.100 --> 00:12:29.860 align:middle line:84% I hear the way that words impact one another. 00:12:29.860 --> 00:12:32.340 align:middle line:84% And so, I don't think about that either. 00:12:32.340 --> 00:12:33.810 align:middle line:90% It's all given. 00:12:33.810 --> 00:12:36.990 align:middle line:84% And, I feel like it's such a blessing, it's such a gift. 00:12:36.990 --> 00:12:40.090 align:middle line:84% In my worst moments I always think, 00:12:40.090 --> 00:12:42.270 align:middle line:84% oh it's never going to come back. 00:12:42.270 --> 00:12:43.320 align:middle line:90% Ooh, I got lucky. 00:12:43.320 --> 00:12:49.020 align:middle line:90% 00:12:49.020 --> 00:12:52.080 align:middle line:84% I don't think about audience, except in terms of, 00:12:52.080 --> 00:12:56.220 align:middle line:84% why would I write unless people would understand me. 00:12:56.220 --> 00:12:59.940 align:middle line:84% I wouldn't just want to write for 00:12:59.940 --> 00:13:02.670 align:middle line:90% my own personal gratification. 00:13:02.670 --> 00:13:03.990 align:middle line:90% Then, I should shoot myself. 00:13:03.990 --> 00:13:07.470 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:13:07.470 --> 00:13:09.240 align:middle line:90% OK, thank you guys so much. 00:13:09.240 --> 00:13:11.762 align:middle line:84% Let's give them another round of applause. 00:13:11.762 --> 00:13:15.600 align:middle line:90% [APPLAUSE]