WEBVTT

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Thank you, Alison and Luci.

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They're here now to answer
questions, if you have any.

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And so I'll invite anybody
to ask Alison or Luci

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if they have things to
comment on or ask them about.

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I'm sure they'd be
happy to answer.

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Alison, I'm interested in this
idea of the marriage of science

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and art.

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And in Salt do-- you actually
described it as science

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made art.

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But I was wondering
if you could speak

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to maybe an applied
art made science,

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or the artist as a scientist.

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Well, sure.

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I mean, I certainly
feel it goes both ways.

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And in part, poets
are people who

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want to look very, very
carefully at the world

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and find a new language to
describe their experience.

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And that I think is basically
what scientists do too.

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So I think that an artist
is practicing science,

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even though the difference
is, we don't really

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have a hypothesis.

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Our hypothesis is
maybe if I look at this

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and reach for language, I
can come up with a new form

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that will be engaging,
delightful, musical,

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or whatever.

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But for me, I see
science and art

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as standing side by side as
two equally legitimate ways

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to read the world and to try
to understand our place in it,

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which will always remain
just a bit beyond our reach.

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Ruth, repeat the question.

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Oh, sorry.

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I'm sorry, I didn't catch
the question myself.

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Could you repeat the
question for the rec--

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No, no, no.

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You don't want it now?

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OK.

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It's cold.

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Any other questions?

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Sure.

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Luci, thank you so much
for sharing with us.

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I'm curious, what was it
that compelled you to start

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writing as a little girl?

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The question was what made Luci
start writing as a little girl?

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When I learned to read,
I was very surprised

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that you could read really
wonderful stories and books,

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because I grew up in a
family that we didn't speak

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a lot of English, but we
were very much practitioners

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of the oral or
literary tradition.

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And so when I learned to
read, I was very fascinated.

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I also didn't know
at a young age

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that you could
write your own work.

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So I really like reading
and I like writing too.

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But what I would do is take the
Bobbsey Twins story from there

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and make all the characters
people in my family,

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and change all the places
to around Shiprock.

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And I kept that.

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But later on I found out
that you could actually

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write your own work.

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But I think the combination
of Navajo and English, that

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already inherited sense
of stories and songs

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and just the love of language
combined with reading probably

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was a very good thing.

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I have one question
also for Luci.

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I'm fascinated by how you manage
to combine writing in the Diné

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Navajo language and in English
because they seem so very

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different.

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And do you find that awkward?

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No, I don't think
I find it awkward.

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I feel, especially when
I'm writing in fixed form,

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when I'm writing like
villanelles or sonnets

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or, my favorite, the sestina.

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I really like the fact that
I can use Navajo and English.

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I have more freedom than I would
if I just knew one language.

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So I like being able
to go between the two.

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And I think that
there are sometimes

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concepts in Navajo that--

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a connotative meanings
that words have

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that don't exist in English.

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So just like working
with it to get

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at the essence of
what I'm trying to say

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is really, really wonderful.

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Sometimes when I'm reading
entirely in Navajo,

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it's hard to switch back
to English in a poem.

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Maybe that would be
one thing, because it

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uses different-- languages use
different parts of your mouth.

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So sometimes that's a
little awkward, but nothing

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that really effects the work.

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Well, I can say the end
result is not awkward.

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It's beautiful.

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Thank you.

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Do the Diné have
a name for Tucson?

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Do the Diné have
a name for Tucson?

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It's

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Hoozdoh yázhí.

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It means-- hoozdoh means hot--
that's the name for Phoenix--

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and yázhí is small.

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[LAUGHING]

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It's small, hot place.

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[LAUGHING]

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Any other questions or comments?

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I have a question for Alison.

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You read a poem that has
Eurydice and Orpheus.

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And I was curious
if you could talk

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about why you think those
ancient stories are timeless

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and what about them
makes [INAUDIBLE]..

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The question was about the
poem concerning Eurydice

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and why would Alison
think that they are still

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relevant and timeless.

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Well, you can read
Joseph Campbell,

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who can probably say
it much better than I.

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I'm trying to think.

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I wrote a whole set of them.

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And I think the first
one was Persephone,

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because I was asked
by Kore Press.

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They had a blog
that they started

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called Persephone speaks.

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And they said, would you
write something for the blog.

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And at the time, I just
hated the whole blog thing.

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Now I've given up, like I
gave up about cell phones.

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Now I like blogs.

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So I wrote a poem.

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And so the first one was,
I said, OK, well I'll

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just challenge
myself to see if I

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can find a very contemporary,
sassy irreverent,

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Persephone voice.

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There are so many.

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Everybody's got a
Persephone poem.

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And I felt it was a
successful experiment.

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And then I wanted to ask
myself which of those stories

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seem to have a resonance with
something that was really

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going on in my life.

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And the astronomers
have this term--

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averted vision.

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Like, when you look at
something very small

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in space, like the Pleiades,
if you look straight at it,

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you can't really see it.

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You have to look like this.

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And it has something to do
with the rods and the cones.

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I don't know what.

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But you can see it better
with averted vision.

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And I think using
these figures--

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I mean, for a poet.

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A psychologist could give
you really greater answers

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than this.

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But for the poet, writing in
these great ancient stories,

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I think, is a way that we
can look with averted vision

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and possibly get past
the literal first level

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of the experience of something
we might be going through.

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And of course, one of the
ideas that some psychologists--

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psychotherapists write about
is that all of those gods

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dwelled in the human
imagination in that period.

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We exiled all of them.

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And we got one great big
one up there in the sky.

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It's not the same.

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And those gods still inhabit
us, at least figuratively.

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And when you go back
to those stories

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with an open mind
and an open heart,

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you suddenly feel,
like, holy Moses,

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these really do speak about
the forces and conflicts

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and contradictions and
intensities of the inner life.

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For Luci, what other Diné
authors are you attracted

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to, contemporary or recent past?

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What are the Diné authors that
you were attracted to or from

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the recent past, or?

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There's a number of
really wonderful writers,

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Diné writers--

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very busy now.

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Sherwin Bitsui-- he's reading
here at the festival--

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is a wonderful,
wonderful writer.

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Esther Belin, who's up
in Northwest New Mexico.

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And Irvin Morris,
who's a novelist--

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beautiful.

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He's written a memoir called
Glittering World, which

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is the name for this
world as Navajo people

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that we now inhabit.

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And it refers to the idea that
glitter is something that's

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beautiful but also dangerous.

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And it's tenuous, but this
is the world we're living in.

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And a writer who was the first
Navajo to write a biography

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was Blackhorse Mitchell,
or Blackhorse--

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Yeah, Blackhorse Mitchell.

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And he teaches up in
Northwest New Mexico.

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Laura Tohe is a
really good poet.

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She teaches at Arizona State.

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Hershman John just
graduated from Arizona State

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and is a published poet by UofA.

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And Orlando White, who
just graduated from Brown,

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is also a published poet.

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So there's a really wonderful,
just all this explosion

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of Navajo writers.

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And the younger writers that are
in their 20's and 30's are very

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much out of the School of--

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what do you call it--
performance and slam poets.

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So it's a very different
kind of poetry.

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It's very different
from my poetry.

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Still has really the wonderful
essence and the cadence

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and the images and the
philosophy that we live

00:11:16.820 --> 00:11:18.155 align:middle line:90%
by as Diné people.

00:11:18.155 --> 00:11:23.440 align:middle line:90%


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We should perhaps mention
that Sherwin Bitsui

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will be reading here at--

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In this room?

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1 o'clock in this room.

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OK.

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Yeah, thank you.

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I just have one last
question, since there

00:11:37.780 --> 00:11:39.775 align:middle line:84%
don't seem to be any
more from the audience.

00:11:39.775 --> 00:11:42.280 align:middle line:90%


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Everybody likes to read
a story now and then.

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But not so many people
want to read a poem.

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And yet I think that
poetry offers something

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very particular in helping us to
appreciate the world around us

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and the world that
is made up of people.

00:12:02.740 --> 00:12:05.490 align:middle line:84%
And I wonder what
Alison and Luci

00:12:05.490 --> 00:12:12.630 align:middle line:84%
think about how to encourage
people to read poetry,

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or even to come and
listen to poetry.

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[LAUGHING]

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An interesting question.

00:12:26.260 --> 00:12:27.760 align:middle line:84%
Did you come out
and say [INAUDIBLE]

00:12:27.760 --> 00:12:30.450 align:middle line:84%
Well, what I've been
thinking about lately

00:12:30.450 --> 00:12:33.900 align:middle line:84%
these last few days, it's
just been in my head.

00:12:33.900 --> 00:12:40.470 align:middle line:84%
I've been thinking of writing
lines of poetry or small poems

00:12:40.470 --> 00:12:45.570 align:middle line:84%
from different people and
just on small pieces of paper.

00:12:45.570 --> 00:12:49.710 align:middle line:84%
And then, like, going to
a restaurant or something

00:12:49.710 --> 00:12:53.370 align:middle line:84%
and just leaving it under
the salt and pepper shaker,

00:12:53.370 --> 00:12:58.260 align:middle line:84%
or going places and just tucking
poems in different places.

00:12:58.260 --> 00:12:59.220 align:middle line:90%
I don't know why.

00:12:59.220 --> 00:13:02.040 align:middle line:84%
I've just been thinking, it
would be really wonderful just

00:13:02.040 --> 00:13:05.520 align:middle line:84%
to come, all of a sudden, you're
just doing ordinary things.

00:13:05.520 --> 00:13:07.170 align:middle line:90%
And then there's a poem.

00:13:07.170 --> 00:13:10.350 align:middle line:84%
And you would think,
oh, I have to read this.

00:13:10.350 --> 00:13:13.380 align:middle line:84%
I wonder who left this
and what does it mean?

00:13:13.380 --> 00:13:15.150 align:middle line:90%
Why did I find it?

00:13:15.150 --> 00:13:17.700 align:middle line:90%
So that's kind of my project.

00:13:17.700 --> 00:13:21.210 align:middle line:84%
I'm thinking of doing that
after the break and just,

00:13:21.210 --> 00:13:23.040 align:middle line:90%
like, doing 50 of them.

00:13:23.040 --> 00:13:25.800 align:middle line:84%
And then just taking
them, folding them up,

00:13:25.800 --> 00:13:30.030 align:middle line:84%
and tucking them in a
newspaper stand or just

00:13:30.030 --> 00:13:33.880 align:middle line:90%
spreading them around town.

00:13:33.880 --> 00:13:34.830 align:middle line:90%
I would think--

00:13:34.830 --> 00:13:36.600 align:middle line:90%
That's right.

00:13:36.600 --> 00:13:40.890 align:middle line:84%
I would just be
delighted to find a poem.

00:13:40.890 --> 00:13:46.020 align:middle line:84%
So that's, I mean, one way
that I would get people

00:13:46.020 --> 00:13:50.340 align:middle line:84%
to read poetry, aside
from encouraging people

00:13:50.340 --> 00:13:53.100 align:middle line:90%
to go to poetry readings.

00:13:53.100 --> 00:13:57.810 align:middle line:84%
I was just named to
an advisory board.

00:13:57.810 --> 00:13:59.220 align:middle line:90%
It's a national project.

00:13:59.220 --> 00:14:02.880 align:middle line:84%
And it's called the Language
Conservation Project.

00:14:02.880 --> 00:14:07.470 align:middle line:84%
And it's a project where
in the national zoos

00:14:07.470 --> 00:14:09.583 align:middle line:90%
were going to find poems.

00:14:09.583 --> 00:14:10.500 align:middle line:90%
I'm on that board too.

00:14:10.500 --> 00:14:10.860 align:middle line:90%
Are you?

00:14:10.860 --> 00:14:11.100 align:middle line:90%
Yes!

00:14:11.100 --> 00:14:11.600 align:middle line:90%
OK!

00:14:11.600 --> 00:14:13.920 align:middle line:90%
[LAUGHING]

00:14:13.920 --> 00:14:16.590 align:middle line:90%
Find points to put in the zoos.

00:14:16.590 --> 00:14:19.710 align:middle line:84%
So at different
exhibitions, there'll

00:14:19.710 --> 00:14:21.910 align:middle line:90%
be a poem that relates to that.

00:14:21.910 --> 00:14:23.850 align:middle line:84%
And it's going to be
all over the country.

00:14:23.850 --> 00:14:25.800 align:middle line:90%
Started in New York.

00:14:25.800 --> 00:14:29.610 align:middle line:84%
And it's really
beautiful, just beautiful.

00:14:29.610 --> 00:14:32.740 align:middle line:84%
And these poems are going
to be there forever.

00:14:32.740 --> 00:14:36.330 align:middle line:84%
So then my idea kind
of sprung out of that.

00:14:36.330 --> 00:14:38.790 align:middle line:84%
How can I do that
on a smaller scale,

00:14:38.790 --> 00:14:40.500 align:middle line:90%
and yet still get poetry?

00:14:40.500 --> 00:14:42.570 align:middle line:90%
And April is Poetry Month.

00:14:42.570 --> 00:14:45.600 align:middle line:84%
Next month is
National Poetry Month.

00:14:45.600 --> 00:14:47.250 align:middle line:90%
Yeah.

00:14:47.250 --> 00:14:49.680 align:middle line:84%
Just a couple of
things that Zoo Project

00:14:49.680 --> 00:14:52.860 align:middle line:84%
is really exciting
because it's an example

00:14:52.860 --> 00:14:55.140 align:middle line:84%
of the science-art
thing going both ways,

00:14:55.140 --> 00:14:57.270 align:middle line:84%
because they actually
polled people coming out

00:14:57.270 --> 00:15:00.990 align:middle line:84%
of Central Park Zoo after they
installed all this poetry.

00:15:00.990 --> 00:15:04.860 align:middle line:84%
And the people who visited
after the poetry was installed

00:15:04.860 --> 00:15:09.630 align:middle line:84%
had a higher degree of
conservation consciousness.

00:15:09.630 --> 00:15:15.290 align:middle line:84%
And they exhibited evidence of
having a biosphere thinking.

00:15:15.290 --> 00:15:19.285 align:middle line:84%
In other words, they saw humans
as part of a larger ecosystem.

00:15:19.285 --> 00:15:20.910 align:middle line:84%
But I just want to
say one other thing.

00:15:20.910 --> 00:15:23.040 align:middle line:84%
I don't think we should
ever lament that poetry

00:15:23.040 --> 00:15:24.190 align:middle line:90%
has a small audience.

00:15:24.190 --> 00:15:27.030 align:middle line:84%
I mean, opera has a
small audience, jazz.

00:15:27.030 --> 00:15:30.420 align:middle line:84%
There are lots of art forms
that have small audiences.

00:15:30.420 --> 00:15:34.650 align:middle line:84%
And they're like the great
secrets of human civilization

00:15:34.650 --> 00:15:35.710 align:middle line:90%
that carry through time.

00:15:35.710 --> 00:15:36.210 align:middle line:90%
And

00:15:36.210 --> 00:15:39.480 align:middle line:84%
If you look at it over
a long time horizon,

00:15:39.480 --> 00:15:43.560 align:middle line:84%
there's a huge
audience for poetry.

00:15:43.560 --> 00:15:47.430 align:middle line:84%
So I know that we sometimes
want to evangelize and make

00:15:47.430 --> 00:15:48.450 align:middle line:90%
everybody love it.

00:15:48.450 --> 00:15:53.030 align:middle line:84%
But other people like
TV, and that's OK.

00:15:53.030 --> 00:15:55.590 align:middle line:84%
But I think a festival
like this invites everybody

00:15:55.590 --> 00:15:57.860 align:middle line:84%
and hopefully does
broaden the audience

00:15:57.860 --> 00:16:01.340 align:middle line:90%
by a few small increments.

00:16:01.340 --> 00:16:02.920 align:middle line:90%
Well, two great answers.

00:16:02.920 --> 00:16:03.830 align:middle line:90%
Thank you very much.

00:16:03.830 --> 00:16:05.180 align:middle line:90%
And thank you to our audience.

00:16:05.180 --> 00:16:07.030 align:middle line:90%
[APPLAUSE]

00:16:07.030 --> 00:16:09.000 align:middle line:90%