WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:01.860 align:middle line:90% 00:00:01.860 --> 00:00:06.870 align:middle line:84% My gosh, it's an amazing turnout. 00:00:06.870 --> 00:00:09.795 align:middle line:84% Good thing we're in Arizona, where it won't suddenly rain. 00:00:09.795 --> 00:00:13.260 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:00:13.260 --> 00:00:13.760 align:middle line:90% 00:00:13.760 --> 00:00:16.616 align:middle line:84% Can you folks way in the back there actually hear this? 00:00:16.616 --> 00:00:17.116 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:00:17.116 --> 00:00:18.790 align:middle line:90% No. 00:00:18.790 --> 00:00:20.650 align:middle line:84% If you can't hear it, raise your hand. 00:00:20.650 --> 00:00:21.150 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:00:21.150 --> 00:00:22.080 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:00:22.080 --> 00:00:24.930 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:00:24.930 --> 00:00:27.250 align:middle line:90% Looks like it's working. 00:00:27.250 --> 00:00:28.520 align:middle line:90% OK. 00:00:28.520 --> 00:00:31.405 align:middle line:84% Well, thank you all for turning out for this. 00:00:31.405 --> 00:00:33.920 align:middle line:84% As I was saying to Drum a few minutes ago, 00:00:33.920 --> 00:00:36.623 align:middle line:84% these folks don't seem to have anything else to do tonight. 00:00:36.623 --> 00:00:39.341 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:00:39.341 --> 00:00:40.250 align:middle line:90% 00:00:40.250 --> 00:00:44.420 align:middle line:84% I'm very happy and pleased that you could come. 00:00:44.420 --> 00:00:47.870 align:middle line:84% And I'm truly pleased and honored 00:00:47.870 --> 00:00:54.470 align:middle line:84% to have been asked to remember and speak 00:00:54.470 --> 00:00:59.510 align:middle line:84% in memory of Ruth Stephan, the founder of the Poetry Center 00:00:59.510 --> 00:01:00.410 align:middle line:90% here. 00:01:00.410 --> 00:01:01.970 align:middle line:90% My gosh, 50 years. 00:01:01.970 --> 00:01:05.690 align:middle line:90% Well, that's only 1961, 1960. 00:01:05.690 --> 00:01:06.650 align:middle line:90% That's not so bad. 00:01:06.650 --> 00:01:08.940 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:01:08.940 --> 00:01:12.470 align:middle line:84% So it was the summer of 1961, which 00:01:12.470 --> 00:01:17.930 align:middle line:84% is 49 years ago, that Ruth Stephan visited 00:01:17.930 --> 00:01:20.120 align:middle line:90% the city of Kyoto, Japan. 00:01:20.120 --> 00:01:22.740 align:middle line:90% 00:01:22.740 --> 00:01:24.740 align:middle line:84% I don't know if that was the first time. 00:01:24.740 --> 00:01:26.570 align:middle line:90% Maybe it was. 00:01:26.570 --> 00:01:31.640 align:middle line:84% I was a student at the Daitoku-ji monastery 00:01:31.640 --> 00:01:37.820 align:middle line:84% at that time, and an archivist, and librarian 00:01:37.820 --> 00:01:43.440 align:middle line:84% worker in the First Zen Institute of America, 00:01:43.440 --> 00:01:48.020 align:middle line:84% a little Kyoto branch temple and library 00:01:48.020 --> 00:01:51.110 align:middle line:84% which was just a couple of hundred feet 00:01:51.110 --> 00:01:58.040 align:middle line:84% from the monastery, actually, and run by Ruth Fuller Sasaki, 00:01:58.040 --> 00:02:03.170 align:middle line:84% a remarkable American woman who started her zen 00:02:03.170 --> 00:02:10.550 align:middle line:84% practice in the 1930s, sitting zazen 00:02:10.550 --> 00:02:18.380 align:middle line:84% in the Nanzen-ji monastery in full cross-legged position 00:02:18.380 --> 00:02:24.380 align:middle line:84% on the cushions with the monks, probably 00:02:24.380 --> 00:02:26.990 align:middle line:84% before any other American had ever 00:02:26.990 --> 00:02:31.700 align:middle line:84% done that, and certainly, before any woman had ever done it. 00:02:31.700 --> 00:02:35.780 align:middle line:84% And she handled that with a lot of panache, and a lot of grace. 00:02:35.780 --> 00:02:38.300 align:middle line:90% 00:02:38.300 --> 00:02:43.550 align:middle line:84% Ruth went on to start a zen study center 00:02:43.550 --> 00:02:49.200 align:middle line:84% in New York City, Ruth Sasaki, whose name was Fuller, still, 00:02:49.200 --> 00:02:50.310 align:middle line:90% then. 00:02:50.310 --> 00:02:56.610 align:middle line:84% And she met the Japanese zen master, Sasaki Shigetsu, 00:02:56.610 --> 00:03:01.500 align:middle line:84% who was working as a carver in a furniture factory 00:03:01.500 --> 00:03:04.770 align:middle line:84% in New York City at that time, and also teaching 00:03:04.770 --> 00:03:11.820 align:middle line:84% zen when he could afford to in a little apartment on the side. 00:03:11.820 --> 00:03:15.540 align:middle line:84% When she met him and discovered that he 00:03:15.540 --> 00:03:21.060 align:middle line:84% was of very much the same lineage as she had started in, 00:03:21.060 --> 00:03:22.200 align:middle line:90% they really hit it off. 00:03:22.200 --> 00:03:27.810 align:middle line:84% And she created a zen study center in New York City, 00:03:27.810 --> 00:03:31.500 align:middle line:84% in Manhattan, which is still going today. 00:03:31.500 --> 00:03:37.440 align:middle line:84% Although, it's in her style, and in that tradition, 00:03:37.440 --> 00:03:40.378 align:middle line:84% it is so low key that it doesn't advertise itself 00:03:40.378 --> 00:03:42.170 align:middle line:84% like all the other Buddhists in America do. 00:03:42.170 --> 00:03:44.920 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:03:44.920 --> 00:03:45.420 align:middle line:90% 00:03:45.420 --> 00:03:51.690 align:middle line:84% So Ruth and Sasaki Shigetsu got married, 00:03:51.690 --> 00:03:56.010 align:middle line:84% and she took the surname Sasaki, Ruth Sasaki. 00:03:56.010 --> 00:04:01.860 align:middle line:84% After the war was over, and as soon as the occupation would 00:04:01.860 --> 00:04:05.760 align:middle line:84% permit it, she journeyed back to Kyoto, 00:04:05.760 --> 00:04:11.370 align:middle line:84% hoping to find another zen teacher, hopefully 00:04:11.370 --> 00:04:16.440 align:middle line:84% in that same Rinzai lineage connected with the Myoshinji 00:04:16.440 --> 00:04:19.050 align:middle line:84% Temple, or the Daitoku-ji Temple, 00:04:19.050 --> 00:04:22.410 align:middle line:84% to invite to come back to New York. 00:04:22.410 --> 00:04:24.990 align:middle line:90% There was nobody available. 00:04:24.990 --> 00:04:30.120 align:middle line:84% Nobody wanted to go, so she ended up staying there. 00:04:30.120 --> 00:04:37.180 align:middle line:84% And the Daitoku-ji Temple system-- 00:04:37.180 --> 00:04:38.950 align:middle line:90% I don't know why they did this-- 00:04:38.950 --> 00:04:41.900 align:middle line:90% gave her a temple. 00:04:41.900 --> 00:04:45.950 align:middle line:84% And then she had to become a priest to have the temple. 00:04:45.950 --> 00:04:48.000 align:middle line:84% So she went through that too, but she said, well, 00:04:48.000 --> 00:04:50.540 align:middle line:84% don't expect me to come to any of the big ceremonies. 00:04:50.540 --> 00:04:52.895 align:middle line:90% I won't have time. 00:04:52.895 --> 00:04:54.470 align:middle line:90% And they said, oh, that's OK. 00:04:54.470 --> 00:04:55.670 align:middle line:90% We wouldn't want you anyway. 00:04:55.670 --> 00:04:57.740 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:04:57.740 --> 00:05:03.500 align:middle line:84% But that was the beginning of a serious scholarly, 00:05:03.500 --> 00:05:08.670 align:middle line:84% as well as a practical spiritual studies program in Japan. 00:05:08.670 --> 00:05:11.240 align:middle line:84% And I was brought to Japan because I 00:05:11.240 --> 00:05:17.390 align:middle line:84% was learning how to make my way in Classical Chinese, as well 00:05:17.390 --> 00:05:20.750 align:middle line:84% as Modern Japanese, as a graduate student at UC, 00:05:20.750 --> 00:05:21.890 align:middle line:90% Berkeley. 00:05:21.890 --> 00:05:26.450 align:middle line:84% So I got plucked up somehow, and shipped over there, 00:05:26.450 --> 00:05:27.780 align:middle line:90% which was what I wanted to do. 00:05:27.780 --> 00:05:31.160 align:middle line:90% I wanted to do some zen study. 00:05:31.160 --> 00:05:37.040 align:middle line:84% And that's where I found myself in the summer of 1961, 00:05:37.040 --> 00:05:43.010 align:middle line:84% sitting and practicing in the zendo, with a little house 00:05:43.010 --> 00:05:45.500 align:middle line:84% a few blocks from the monastery where I had 00:05:45.500 --> 00:05:48.320 align:middle line:90% my library and my dictionaries. 00:05:48.320 --> 00:05:53.630 align:middle line:84% And then Ruth Stephan came to town, also a woman 00:05:53.630 --> 00:05:58.280 align:middle line:84% of the same class as Ruth Sasaki had been, which is to say, 00:05:58.280 --> 00:06:05.750 align:middle line:84% rich, from Chicago, as Ruth was, and actually already friends. 00:06:05.750 --> 00:06:08.750 align:middle line:84% I think Mrs. Sasaki was maybe 10 years older 00:06:08.750 --> 00:06:10.310 align:middle line:90% than Ruth Stephan at that time. 00:06:10.310 --> 00:06:13.280 align:middle line:90% 00:06:13.280 --> 00:06:15.060 align:middle line:84% Ruth Stephan was coming primarily, 00:06:15.060 --> 00:06:18.750 align:middle line:84% as I understood it, to find a place to be quiet and write 00:06:18.750 --> 00:06:19.250 align:middle line:90% some more. 00:06:19.250 --> 00:06:22.010 align:middle line:84% She loved writing, and she wrote a lot of things. 00:06:22.010 --> 00:06:23.478 align:middle line:90% And she was a good writer. 00:06:23.478 --> 00:06:24.770 align:middle line:90% She actually was a good writer. 00:06:24.770 --> 00:06:27.200 align:middle line:90% Look it up. 00:06:27.200 --> 00:06:28.531 align:middle line:90% Look it up over there. 00:06:28.531 --> 00:06:30.004 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:06:30.004 --> 00:06:31.970 align:middle line:90% 00:06:31.970 --> 00:06:34.880 align:middle line:84% Mrs. Sasaki took good care of Ruth Stephan, 00:06:34.880 --> 00:06:40.010 align:middle line:84% and she got me to be a helper sometimes, and take 00:06:40.010 --> 00:06:44.990 align:middle line:84% Ruth Stephan around to visit zen temples and zen priests. 00:06:44.990 --> 00:06:48.230 align:middle line:84% And I acted as her interpreter, because I 00:06:48.230 --> 00:06:51.920 align:middle line:84% could speak passable Japanese, and my English 00:06:51.920 --> 00:06:53.750 align:middle line:90% wasn't bad at all at that time. 00:06:53.750 --> 00:06:56.491 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:06:56.491 --> 00:06:56.991 align:middle line:90% 00:06:56.991 --> 00:07:04.770 align:middle line:84% And Ruth Stephan was a charming, generous, totally intelligent, 00:07:04.770 --> 00:07:10.120 align:middle line:84% compassionate, interested, and beautiful person. 00:07:10.120 --> 00:07:11.602 align:middle line:90% That was her only problem. 00:07:11.602 --> 00:07:14.200 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:07:14.200 --> 00:07:15.640 align:middle line:90% Probably. 00:07:15.640 --> 00:07:19.050 align:middle line:84% She was too beautiful, and she was already-- my god, 00:07:19.050 --> 00:07:21.100 align:middle line:84% she was 50 years old at that time. 00:07:21.100 --> 00:07:23.470 align:middle line:84% But what a striking lady she was, 00:07:23.470 --> 00:07:25.722 align:middle line:84% on her second, or maybe just coming out 00:07:25.722 --> 00:07:26.680 align:middle line:90% of her second marriage. 00:07:26.680 --> 00:07:31.500 align:middle line:90% 00:07:31.500 --> 00:07:34.230 align:middle line:84% Ruth Sasaki did the heavy lifting 00:07:34.230 --> 00:07:39.060 align:middle line:84% when it came to introducing Ruth Stephan to serious, high-class 00:07:39.060 --> 00:07:41.580 align:middle line:90% remote zen teachers. 00:07:41.580 --> 00:07:45.090 align:middle line:84% And she did that, as those of you who 00:07:45.090 --> 00:07:50.950 align:middle line:84% come next week to see the 70-minute movie on Ruth 00:07:50.950 --> 00:07:53.940 align:middle line:84% Stephan and the temple called Ryoko-in, 00:07:53.940 --> 00:07:57.630 align:middle line:84% you'll see tomorrow how that actually played out. 00:07:57.630 --> 00:07:59.540 align:middle line:90% The movie was made in 19-- 00:07:59.540 --> 00:08:00.610 align:middle line:90% what year, '70? 00:08:00.610 --> 00:08:01.110 align:middle line:90% '71. 00:08:01.110 --> 00:08:04.110 align:middle line:90% '71, by Ruth Stephan. 00:08:04.110 --> 00:08:09.450 align:middle line:84% Ruth Stephan first met Kobori Nanrei, 00:08:09.450 --> 00:08:12.180 align:middle line:84% who was the priest of that temple, which 00:08:12.180 --> 00:08:16.750 align:middle line:84% was right part of the Daitoku-ji complex in 1961. 00:08:16.750 --> 00:08:18.840 align:middle line:84% So it was actually-- quite a span of time 00:08:18.840 --> 00:08:21.450 align:middle line:90% was involved there. 00:08:21.450 --> 00:08:23.520 align:middle line:84% She was writing poetry, as well as prose. 00:08:23.520 --> 00:08:26.700 align:middle line:84% And as she said very clearly, poetry 00:08:26.700 --> 00:08:30.450 align:middle line:84% was that art which was closest to her heart. 00:08:30.450 --> 00:08:34.150 align:middle line:90% All her life, she was a writer. 00:08:34.150 --> 00:08:38.520 align:middle line:84% As a child, she started writing poetry and prose. 00:08:38.520 --> 00:08:42.659 align:middle line:84% I only gradually came to understand that and appreciate 00:08:42.659 --> 00:08:43.860 align:middle line:90% it. 00:08:43.860 --> 00:08:48.210 align:middle line:84% And I only gradually came to take her seriously 00:08:48.210 --> 00:08:51.300 align:middle line:84% because she was too good-looking, and too 00:08:51.300 --> 00:08:54.138 align:middle line:90% well-bred. 00:08:54.138 --> 00:08:57.690 align:middle line:84% My impression was that poets were kind of ugly and not 00:08:57.690 --> 00:08:58.728 align:middle line:90% well-bred-- 00:08:58.728 --> 00:09:00.480 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:09:00.480 --> 00:09:02.610 align:middle line:84% --like most of the ones I knew in San Francisco. 00:09:02.610 --> 00:09:05.490 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:09:05.490 --> 00:09:06.930 align:middle line:90% 00:09:06.930 --> 00:09:11.010 align:middle line:84% But I was happy to be part of that, to be present at that, 00:09:11.010 --> 00:09:14.820 align:middle line:84% and to get to know her a little bit. 00:09:14.820 --> 00:09:16.380 align:middle line:90% And it was just a little bit. 00:09:16.380 --> 00:09:19.020 align:middle line:84% I was just one of the helpers around the temple, 00:09:19.020 --> 00:09:23.520 align:middle line:84% actually, and was not to be taken too seriously. 00:09:23.520 --> 00:09:27.313 align:middle line:84% If Ruth was 50, I was 30, so that was a different time 00:09:27.313 --> 00:09:28.230 align:middle line:90% and a different place. 00:09:28.230 --> 00:09:31.130 align:middle line:90% 00:09:31.130 --> 00:09:35.840 align:middle line:84% Speed ahead, and I hear about the Ruth Stephan Poetry Center 00:09:35.840 --> 00:09:38.240 align:middle line:90% in Tucson, Arizona. 00:09:38.240 --> 00:09:39.560 align:middle line:90% Oh, my goodness, what's that? 00:09:39.560 --> 00:09:42.080 align:middle line:84% [CHUCKLES] Turns out that was part of one 00:09:42.080 --> 00:09:44.270 align:middle line:84% of the many things she did in her life, 00:09:44.270 --> 00:09:46.400 align:middle line:84% was to spend time here in Tucson, 00:09:46.400 --> 00:09:51.590 align:middle line:84% also finding a space to write, and renting a place, 00:09:51.590 --> 00:09:53.690 align:middle line:84% and settling in there for a few months. 00:09:53.690 --> 00:09:58.130 align:middle line:84% And then one of those places was what became the Ruth Stephan 00:09:58.130 --> 00:10:02.150 align:middle line:84% Poetry Cottage, which I think I first 00:10:02.150 --> 00:10:11.560 align:middle line:84% was invited to stay in in 1973 or '74, which is only three 00:10:11.560 --> 00:10:16.510 align:middle line:84% years after the movie that you'll see was made, and was, 00:10:16.510 --> 00:10:20.290 align:middle line:84% as it turns out, the year that Ruth Stephan died. 00:10:20.290 --> 00:10:23.800 align:middle line:84% Except at that time, I didn't even know it. 00:10:23.800 --> 00:10:26.170 align:middle line:84% She was back on the East Coast, and I 00:10:26.170 --> 00:10:28.010 align:middle line:90% didn't know that she had died. 00:10:28.010 --> 00:10:31.240 align:middle line:84% And I didn't actually know quite what had become of her, 00:10:31.240 --> 00:10:34.840 align:middle line:84% except she had left this cottage, 00:10:34.840 --> 00:10:39.125 align:middle line:84% and started a poetry center here on the University of Arizona 00:10:39.125 --> 00:10:39.625 align:middle line:90% campus. 00:10:39.625 --> 00:10:42.790 align:middle line:90% 00:10:42.790 --> 00:10:47.080 align:middle line:84% I gather that, in some way, her launching that, 00:10:47.080 --> 00:10:53.360 align:middle line:84% and her gifts of further support, and books, stocks, 00:10:53.360 --> 00:10:59.510 align:middle line:84% land, whatever she gave to help support all of that, 00:10:59.510 --> 00:11:03.200 align:middle line:84% they bought another house to put her gifted library 00:11:03.200 --> 00:11:09.020 align:middle line:84% in, all of that helps to gather the energy and the focus, 00:11:09.020 --> 00:11:14.630 align:middle line:84% the direction that culminates tonight in us being here. 00:11:14.630 --> 00:11:17.060 align:middle line:84% It wouldn't probably have happened 00:11:17.060 --> 00:11:20.750 align:middle line:84% without her first launching it that way, 00:11:20.750 --> 00:11:26.650 align:middle line:84% and certainly without her devotion to the idea of poetry. 00:11:26.650 --> 00:11:28.310 align:middle line:90% My goodness. 00:11:28.310 --> 00:11:43.000 align:middle line:84% I want to read you something, which I went back upstairs, 00:11:43.000 --> 00:11:45.400 align:middle line:84% over there in the library, to copy down today 00:11:45.400 --> 00:11:51.550 align:middle line:84% because I was so taken with the optimism of it, 00:11:51.550 --> 00:11:53.310 align:middle line:84% and, in a sense, the hopelessness of it. 00:11:53.310 --> 00:11:56.090 align:middle line:90% 00:11:56.090 --> 00:11:57.760 align:middle line:90% This is Ruth Stephan quoted-- 00:11:57.760 --> 00:12:00.790 align:middle line:84% "Poetry is the food of the spirit, 00:12:00.790 --> 00:12:04.600 align:middle line:84% and spirit is the instigator and flow 00:12:04.600 --> 00:12:09.070 align:middle line:84% of all revolutions, whether political or personal, 00:12:09.070 --> 00:12:13.600 align:middle line:84% whether national, worldwide, or within the life 00:12:13.600 --> 00:12:17.380 align:middle line:90% of a single quiet human being." 00:12:17.380 --> 00:12:19.471 align:middle line:90% What a mission for poetry. 00:12:19.471 --> 00:12:21.355 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:12:21.355 --> 00:12:22.300 align:middle line:90% 00:12:22.300 --> 00:12:27.520 align:middle line:84% I hope it's true, and I'll go on hoping it's true. 00:12:27.520 --> 00:12:30.280 align:middle line:84% But we may not know for centuries yet-- 00:12:30.280 --> 00:12:31.860 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:12:31.860 --> 00:12:35.800 align:middle line:84% --if that actually works out to be the case. 00:12:35.800 --> 00:12:39.970 align:middle line:84% In any event, we should continue as though it were true, 00:12:39.970 --> 00:12:45.820 align:middle line:84% which is just as good, and make it part of our thought 00:12:45.820 --> 00:12:53.440 align:middle line:84% that poetry has some role to play, at some point, 00:12:53.440 --> 00:12:58.000 align:middle line:84% in the transformation, possibly, of society, 00:12:58.000 --> 00:12:59.650 align:middle line:90% not to mention our own. 00:12:59.650 --> 00:13:02.275 align:middle line:84% Certainly, it's true of our own inner lives. 00:13:02.275 --> 00:13:07.620 align:middle line:90% 00:13:07.620 --> 00:13:11.490 align:middle line:84% Ruth Stephan's time at the temple of Ryoko-in, 00:13:11.490 --> 00:13:15.690 align:middle line:84% which is one of the branch temples of Daitoku-ji-- 00:13:15.690 --> 00:13:22.470 align:middle line:84% Daitoku-ji covers 127 acres of land, I think, 00:13:22.470 --> 00:13:25.020 align:middle line:90% in the North end of Kyoto. 00:13:25.020 --> 00:13:27.690 align:middle line:84% It's one of the six or seven what 00:13:27.690 --> 00:13:30.720 align:middle line:84% they call main temples, [JAPANESE],, 00:13:30.720 --> 00:13:34.620 align:middle line:84% of the Rinzai school of zen in Japan. 00:13:34.620 --> 00:13:37.110 align:middle line:84% It has several thousand branch temples 00:13:37.110 --> 00:13:40.860 align:middle line:84% scattered over the countryside, rural temples. 00:13:40.860 --> 00:13:44.310 align:middle line:84% And it has 22 temples within the grounds 00:13:44.310 --> 00:13:46.590 align:middle line:90% of the 100 and some acres. 00:13:46.590 --> 00:13:49.560 align:middle line:90% It's a big establishment. 00:13:49.560 --> 00:13:53.610 align:middle line:84% So the Ryoko-in Temple is one of those 22 temples 00:13:53.610 --> 00:13:57.450 align:middle line:84% which is within the larger walls of the Daitoku-ji system. 00:13:57.450 --> 00:14:03.210 align:middle line:84% Daitoku-ji, [JAPANESE],, great virtue, 00:14:03.210 --> 00:14:10.350 align:middle line:84% or great vertu "great magical virtue temple" 00:14:10.350 --> 00:14:17.490 align:middle line:84% is what it means in both Daoist, Confucianists, and Buddhist 00:14:17.490 --> 00:14:20.340 align:middle line:84% senses That was the name that was given. 00:14:20.340 --> 00:14:22.785 align:middle line:84% It was founded in the 13th century. 00:14:22.785 --> 00:14:25.370 align:middle line:90% 00:14:25.370 --> 00:14:28.580 align:middle line:84% Ryoko-in means "the light of the dragon"-- 00:14:28.580 --> 00:14:30.560 align:middle line:90% dragon light temple. 00:14:30.560 --> 00:14:37.700 align:middle line:84% And Kobori, who I knew rather well, 00:14:37.700 --> 00:14:42.740 align:middle line:84% had been sick with tuberculosis at the time of World War II, 00:14:42.740 --> 00:14:46.020 align:middle line:84% and was not drafted into the army. 00:14:46.020 --> 00:14:51.650 align:middle line:84% So instead, he staked his health on traveling 10 miles each way 00:14:51.650 --> 00:14:56.510 align:middle line:84% by train at 4:00 every morning for years 00:14:56.510 --> 00:15:02.240 align:middle line:84% to go and have a dokusan, koan interview session 00:15:02.240 --> 00:15:04.020 align:middle line:90% with his old teacher Morimoto. 00:15:04.020 --> 00:15:07.775 align:middle line:84% She lived way down, halfway towards Osaka, almost-- 00:15:07.775 --> 00:15:09.650 align:middle line:84% well, about a third of the way towards Osaka. 00:15:09.650 --> 00:15:12.740 align:middle line:90% 00:15:12.740 --> 00:15:14.900 align:middle line:84% He did recover and live on some years longer, 00:15:14.900 --> 00:15:16.622 align:middle line:90% but he is dead now. 00:15:16.622 --> 00:15:18.955 align:middle line:84% And somebody else has got the temple, some other priest. 00:15:18.955 --> 00:15:21.880 align:middle line:90% 00:15:21.880 --> 00:15:25.360 align:middle line:84% So this event here is a little part 00:15:25.360 --> 00:15:30.130 align:middle line:84% of that world network, also, of what 00:15:30.130 --> 00:15:32.680 align:middle line:84% has gone on not only in poetry, but of what 00:15:32.680 --> 00:15:38.440 align:middle line:84% has gone on in this ancient world of Buddhist thought 00:15:38.440 --> 00:15:42.880 align:middle line:84% and practice moving outward over the centuries. 00:15:42.880 --> 00:15:46.720 align:middle line:84% And of course, those guys don't care about time that much. 00:15:46.720 --> 00:15:51.430 align:middle line:84% They say, well, temples, they go for a few centuries, 00:15:51.430 --> 00:15:54.250 align:middle line:84% and get all neglected, and kind of fall down. 00:15:54.250 --> 00:15:56.590 align:middle line:84% And then somebody comes along, and raises money, 00:15:56.590 --> 00:15:57.520 align:middle line:90% and fixes it up. 00:15:57.520 --> 00:15:59.860 align:middle line:84% And for a while, there are no good students. 00:15:59.860 --> 00:16:01.752 align:middle line:84% And then good students come back, 00:16:01.752 --> 00:16:04.210 align:middle line:84% and you have to give yourself a few thousand years for this 00:16:04.210 --> 00:16:05.333 align:middle line:90% to work out. 00:16:05.333 --> 00:16:06.940 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:16:06.940 --> 00:16:10.975 align:middle line:84% People don't think that way anymore, East or West. 00:16:10.975 --> 00:16:14.170 align:middle line:90% 00:16:14.170 --> 00:16:17.450 align:middle line:84% I was already doing my own poetry by that time, 00:16:17.450 --> 00:16:22.750 align:middle line:84% and it took me a while to see where Ruth would 00:16:22.750 --> 00:16:26.140 align:middle line:90% fit into it all, Ruth Stephan. 00:16:26.140 --> 00:16:29.800 align:middle line:84% And I'm still not sure where she fits into it all, except I 00:16:29.800 --> 00:16:33.100 align:middle line:90% know she was my friend. 00:16:33.100 --> 00:16:35.950 align:middle line:84% And after whatever time we had together, 00:16:35.950 --> 00:16:39.900 align:middle line:84% she would have forgiven me for my errors and excesses-- 00:16:39.900 --> 00:16:41.193 align:middle line:90% [QUIET LAUGHTER] 00:16:41.193 --> 00:16:41.920 align:middle line:90% 00:16:41.920 --> 00:16:45.970 align:middle line:84% --just as I forgive her for her wonderful manners. 00:16:45.970 --> 00:16:49.320 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:16:49.320 --> 00:16:50.000 align:middle line:90%