WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.610 align:middle line:90% 00:00:03.610 --> 00:00:06.050 align:middle line:90% Thank you guys so very much. 00:00:06.050 --> 00:00:08.380 align:middle line:84% We have a few minutes for questions, 00:00:08.380 --> 00:00:10.570 align:middle line:84% and I'm going to hand these people the mic. 00:00:10.570 --> 00:00:13.800 align:middle line:90% 00:00:13.800 --> 00:00:14.300 align:middle line:90% Yes. 00:00:14.300 --> 00:00:16.940 align:middle line:90% 00:00:16.940 --> 00:00:19.370 align:middle line:84% How did you feel when you got your first book of poems 00:00:19.370 --> 00:00:20.540 align:middle line:90% published? 00:00:20.540 --> 00:00:21.410 align:middle line:90% Oh. 00:00:21.410 --> 00:00:24.140 align:middle line:84% I asked somebody to put a rock on my head 00:00:24.140 --> 00:00:27.890 align:middle line:90% because I was jumping so high. 00:00:27.890 --> 00:00:31.370 align:middle line:84% I felt really, really, really good and really scared 00:00:31.370 --> 00:00:34.370 align:middle line:84% at the same time to tell you the truth 00:00:34.370 --> 00:00:40.068 align:middle line:84% because I was afraid that people wouldn't like it. 00:00:40.068 --> 00:00:41.360 align:middle line:90% Do you feel that way sometimes? 00:00:41.360 --> 00:00:45.440 align:middle line:84% Like, you're just so happy and then, yeah. 00:00:45.440 --> 00:00:48.170 align:middle line:84% But it was so beautiful, it was like having 00:00:48.170 --> 00:00:49.550 align:middle line:90% a new baby in my hand. 00:00:49.550 --> 00:00:54.160 align:middle line:90% 00:00:54.160 --> 00:00:56.410 align:middle line:84% I have a related question for Jonathan. 00:00:56.410 --> 00:00:59.920 align:middle line:84% Your book came out in 2009, so just recently, 00:00:59.920 --> 00:01:03.190 align:middle line:84% and I like that because I'm a little bit of a late bloomer, 00:01:03.190 --> 00:01:06.280 align:middle line:84% or actually maybe I'm just a pending bloomer. 00:01:06.280 --> 00:01:09.190 align:middle line:84% And I just wondered if you would share your story of how 00:01:09.190 --> 00:01:12.810 align:middle line:90% your book got published. 00:01:12.810 --> 00:01:14.750 align:middle line:90% OK. 00:01:14.750 --> 00:01:15.250 align:middle line:90% Briefly. 00:01:15.250 --> 00:01:18.550 align:middle line:84% I probably-- speaking of late bloomer, 00:01:18.550 --> 00:01:23.950 align:middle line:84% I probably started writing poetry seven years ago. 00:01:23.950 --> 00:01:28.240 align:middle line:84% And wrote and wrote and wrote, and collected 00:01:28.240 --> 00:01:32.440 align:middle line:84% and collected and collected, and sent off and sent off 00:01:32.440 --> 00:01:33.280 align:middle line:90% and set off. 00:01:33.280 --> 00:01:36.250 align:middle line:84% And upon occasion, would get somebody 00:01:36.250 --> 00:01:37.420 align:middle line:90% to acknowledge something. 00:01:37.420 --> 00:01:44.050 align:middle line:84% But in any event, I was told about a local publisher, 00:01:44.050 --> 00:01:49.000 align:middle line:84% Charles Alexander, and I took my stuff to him-- 00:01:49.000 --> 00:01:50.920 align:middle line:84% not really with a sense of publishing it, 00:01:50.920 --> 00:01:54.080 align:middle line:84% but more of a sense of, will you look at this, 00:01:54.080 --> 00:01:56.630 align:middle line:84% will you give me feedback, help me with it, 00:01:56.630 --> 00:02:02.610 align:middle line:84% --and we went through that for probably a year. 00:02:02.610 --> 00:02:10.190 align:middle line:84% And at some point, I talked to him about publishing. 00:02:10.190 --> 00:02:13.130 align:middle line:84% And actually, he's an interesting guy 00:02:13.130 --> 00:02:15.320 align:middle line:84% because what he does is not what we 00:02:15.320 --> 00:02:18.980 align:middle line:84% do because we're more narrative and he's 00:02:18.980 --> 00:02:20.240 align:middle line:90% kind of a language poet. 00:02:20.240 --> 00:02:23.390 align:middle line:84% And so he was hesitant, and we just worked and worked 00:02:23.390 --> 00:02:25.670 align:middle line:84% and worked, and finally, one day, he said, 00:02:25.670 --> 00:02:27.890 align:middle line:84% I've shown this to enough people and I 00:02:27.890 --> 00:02:29.660 align:middle line:90% think it's something we can do. 00:02:29.660 --> 00:02:32.420 align:middle line:90% And I was-- that's fantastic. 00:02:32.420 --> 00:02:35.070 align:middle line:84% And so I owe him a lot and it just 00:02:35.070 --> 00:02:37.070 align:middle line:84% gives you a sense of accomplishment-- and answer 00:02:37.070 --> 00:02:39.920 align:middle line:84% to your question, it's just a sense 00:02:39.920 --> 00:02:41.510 align:middle line:84% of putting something all together 00:02:41.510 --> 00:02:44.210 align:middle line:84% and really feeling good about it. 00:02:44.210 --> 00:02:44.840 align:middle line:90% Thank you. 00:02:44.840 --> 00:02:49.060 align:middle line:90% 00:02:49.060 --> 00:02:52.690 align:middle line:90% I loved your pending bloomer. 00:02:52.690 --> 00:02:53.860 align:middle line:90% Any other questions? 00:02:53.860 --> 00:02:58.700 align:middle line:90% 00:02:58.700 --> 00:03:01.450 align:middle line:90% Oh, there's one. 00:03:01.450 --> 00:03:02.980 align:middle line:90% Oh, god. 00:03:02.980 --> 00:03:06.760 align:middle line:84% --you were an attorney [INAUDIBLE].. 00:03:06.760 --> 00:03:12.100 align:middle line:84% An attorney, and a community, a activist, and a poet, and I 00:03:12.100 --> 00:03:15.940 align:middle line:84% know you not through the latter role until this morning 00:03:15.940 --> 00:03:18.880 align:middle line:84% or until I saw your book a couple of months ago. 00:03:18.880 --> 00:03:25.900 align:middle line:84% And I just have to ask you how these parts of you live and are 00:03:25.900 --> 00:03:27.380 align:middle line:90% they are they compartment-- 00:03:27.380 --> 00:03:30.880 align:middle line:84% I mean obviously, you're you and so you're you wherever you are, 00:03:30.880 --> 00:03:33.280 align:middle line:84% but I'm just curious if you could 00:03:33.280 --> 00:03:35.110 align:middle line:84% talk a little about whether there 00:03:35.110 --> 00:03:37.570 align:middle line:84% are sort of compartments where you put parts 00:03:37.570 --> 00:03:41.740 align:middle line:90% of your persona and your soul. 00:03:41.740 --> 00:03:43.900 align:middle line:84% Yeah, they definitely live separately. 00:03:43.900 --> 00:03:46.840 align:middle line:90% 00:03:46.840 --> 00:03:51.620 align:middle line:84% But in answer sort of a different question, 00:03:51.620 --> 00:03:59.170 align:middle line:84% which is where you would find the poetry part of it. 00:03:59.170 --> 00:04:02.290 align:middle line:84% I mean, it obviously can happen at any time 00:04:02.290 --> 00:04:05.410 align:middle line:84% of the day, or any place, or anything you see, 00:04:05.410 --> 00:04:07.640 align:middle line:84% or an expression that comes into your head. 00:04:07.640 --> 00:04:12.220 align:middle line:84% But you do have to find some time separate and apart 00:04:12.220 --> 00:04:15.610 align:middle line:84% from everything and be away from everything to focus on it 00:04:15.610 --> 00:04:16.750 align:middle line:90% and put it together. 00:04:16.750 --> 00:04:20.860 align:middle line:84% So yeah, to that extent, I don't stop in the middle 00:04:20.860 --> 00:04:22.120 align:middle line:90% of the day, that's for sure. 00:04:22.120 --> 00:04:31.810 align:middle line:90% 00:04:31.810 --> 00:04:33.648 align:middle line:90% How old were you when you-- 00:04:33.648 --> 00:04:35.440 align:middle line:84% this is for both of you. --how old were you 00:04:35.440 --> 00:04:39.410 align:middle line:84% when you wanted to become a poet and get your stuff published? 00:04:39.410 --> 00:04:39.910 align:middle line:90% 12. 00:04:39.910 --> 00:04:43.630 align:middle line:90% 00:04:43.630 --> 00:04:45.910 align:middle line:90% I remember writing-- 00:04:45.910 --> 00:04:49.990 align:middle line:84% I've always written and I've always sketched. 00:04:49.990 --> 00:04:53.410 align:middle line:84% I love art and so I always carry around a sketchbook 00:04:53.410 --> 00:04:56.500 align:middle line:90% and a writing pad. 00:04:56.500 --> 00:04:59.350 align:middle line:84% But when I was 12, I wrote a poem-- that was probably 00:04:59.350 --> 00:05:02.290 align:middle line:90% a pretty awful poem. 00:05:02.290 --> 00:05:05.650 align:middle line:84% And I brought it home, and I got an A on it, 00:05:05.650 --> 00:05:08.380 align:middle line:84% and it was like, whoa, I got an A on a poem. 00:05:08.380 --> 00:05:12.250 align:middle line:84% And I brought it home, and my dad who was a factory worker 00:05:12.250 --> 00:05:16.270 align:middle line:84% and not educated in those kinds of ways and literature, 00:05:16.270 --> 00:05:19.780 align:middle line:84% read that poem and he said, you know, 00:05:19.780 --> 00:05:24.530 align:middle line:84% if I could make anything like this, I'd be proud of myself. 00:05:24.530 --> 00:05:26.230 align:middle line:90% And this is what I want to do. 00:05:26.230 --> 00:05:28.900 align:middle line:90% 00:05:28.900 --> 00:05:31.270 align:middle line:84% Mine was probably a little later, but actually not that 00:05:31.270 --> 00:05:33.100 align:middle line:90% much. 00:05:33.100 --> 00:05:36.040 align:middle line:84% 18, 19, 20 when I went to college 00:05:36.040 --> 00:05:41.560 align:middle line:84% and started being exposed to poetry. 00:05:41.560 --> 00:05:44.030 align:middle line:84% And thought, that would be a neat thing to do, and actually 00:05:44.030 --> 00:05:47.440 align:middle line:84% wrote a little poetry in college and was 00:05:47.440 --> 00:05:49.060 align:middle line:90% published in a college-- 00:05:49.060 --> 00:05:50.530 align:middle line:90% the college journals. 00:05:50.530 --> 00:05:53.740 align:middle line:84% And then after I got out of college, I thought, 00:05:53.740 --> 00:05:55.240 align:middle line:84% maybe I would do something like that 00:05:55.240 --> 00:05:57.670 align:middle line:90% and then I drifted away from it. 00:05:57.670 --> 00:06:00.720 align:middle line:84% And I really always wanted to come back to it, 00:06:00.720 --> 00:06:04.750 align:middle line:90% so I was able to. 00:06:04.750 --> 00:06:08.260 align:middle line:84% Yeah, I think writing is a compulsive activity. 00:06:08.260 --> 00:06:12.790 align:middle line:84% Definitely helps to be obsessive compulsive to do 00:06:12.790 --> 00:06:16.150 align:middle line:84% that because it's something that becomes part of your soul 00:06:16.150 --> 00:06:17.860 align:middle line:90% and you can't not do it then. 00:06:17.860 --> 00:06:20.770 align:middle line:90% 00:06:20.770 --> 00:06:23.410 align:middle line:84% Pam, you lived in a lot of different places. 00:06:23.410 --> 00:06:28.337 align:middle line:84% Could you talk about how place affects your work? 00:06:28.337 --> 00:06:29.920 align:middle line:84% I mean, you've been on the East Coast, 00:06:29.920 --> 00:06:33.040 align:middle line:84% you've been up here in Oracle, Montana, 00:06:33.040 --> 00:06:34.840 align:middle line:84% and now you're living in Colorado. 00:06:34.840 --> 00:06:37.600 align:middle line:84% So could you just say something about that? 00:06:37.600 --> 00:06:38.280 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:06:38.280 --> 00:06:40.210 align:middle line:84% I can't because, Heidi, because I'm 00:06:40.210 --> 00:06:44.510 align:middle line:84% very affected by land, and creatures, and the things 00:06:44.510 --> 00:06:45.010 align:middle line:90% around. 00:06:45.010 --> 00:06:48.880 align:middle line:84% One thing that struck me at a poetry reading 00:06:48.880 --> 00:06:53.080 align:middle line:84% when I was younger was something that Gary Snyder said. 00:06:53.080 --> 00:06:56.200 align:middle line:84% And he said, you really don't know-- 00:06:56.200 --> 00:06:57.910 align:middle line:84% You don't really know where you live 00:06:57.910 --> 00:07:02.260 align:middle line:84% unless you know the creatures who are living there with you. 00:07:02.260 --> 00:07:04.570 align:middle line:84% He was including plants, and the spirits 00:07:04.570 --> 00:07:08.840 align:middle line:84% of the sky, and the rocks, and all of that stuff. 00:07:08.840 --> 00:07:10.360 align:middle line:84% And what I'm taught by my students 00:07:10.360 --> 00:07:12.310 align:middle line:84% all the time at Fort Lewis, because we 00:07:12.310 --> 00:07:16.000 align:middle line:84% have 125 tribes represented in our student body, 00:07:16.000 --> 00:07:17.680 align:middle line:90% is that connection. 00:07:17.680 --> 00:07:20.260 align:middle line:84% That connection between the Earth, 00:07:20.260 --> 00:07:22.720 align:middle line:84% there is nothing separated between you 00:07:22.720 --> 00:07:24.670 align:middle line:90% and the creatures in the Earth. 00:07:24.670 --> 00:07:27.820 align:middle line:84% So everything around me affects me emotionally, 00:07:27.820 --> 00:07:29.350 align:middle line:90% incredibly emotionally. 00:07:29.350 --> 00:07:33.460 align:middle line:84% I could cry when I see a hummingbird because I know that 00:07:33.460 --> 00:07:37.030 align:middle line:84% hummingbird-- it's a bird, but it's also a spirit, 00:07:37.030 --> 00:07:38.680 align:middle line:90% and it's also-- 00:07:38.680 --> 00:07:43.870 align:middle line:84% there's so many levels, layering and levels of things. 00:07:43.870 --> 00:07:47.440 align:middle line:84% When I lived in North Carolina, I wrote about ghosts, 00:07:47.440 --> 00:07:49.160 align:middle line:90% and I wrote about slavery. 00:07:49.160 --> 00:07:51.010 align:middle line:84% And I don't know much about those things, 00:07:51.010 --> 00:07:52.690 align:middle line:90% but it affected me-- 00:07:52.690 --> 00:07:54.850 align:middle line:90% the land itself affected me. 00:07:54.850 --> 00:07:56.530 align:middle line:84% And when I lived in New York, it felt 00:07:56.530 --> 00:07:59.170 align:middle line:90% like the ground was crying. 00:07:59.170 --> 00:08:03.910 align:middle line:84% That the ground was soaked in blood and was crying. 00:08:03.910 --> 00:08:07.180 align:middle line:84% The West doesn't feel like that to me. 00:08:07.180 --> 00:08:18.000 align:middle line:90% 00:08:18.000 --> 00:08:19.140 align:middle line:90% I have a question for Pam. 00:08:19.140 --> 00:08:21.750 align:middle line:90% 00:08:21.750 --> 00:08:24.600 align:middle line:84% How did you feel when your mom died? 00:08:24.600 --> 00:08:25.470 align:middle line:90% Oh. 00:08:25.470 --> 00:08:28.920 align:middle line:84% Well, you know, it was such a mix of feelings. 00:08:28.920 --> 00:08:32.549 align:middle line:84% At first, I was so happy that we could all be there and tell her 00:08:32.549 --> 00:08:35.880 align:middle line:84% how much we loved her, and we kept and we kept joking. 00:08:35.880 --> 00:08:38.159 align:middle line:90% And this is sort of funny-- 00:08:38.159 --> 00:08:40.650 align:middle line:90% do you have a sister? 00:08:40.650 --> 00:08:45.090 align:middle line:84% OK, so we were picking on my one sister. 00:08:45.090 --> 00:08:47.220 align:middle line:84% I have three sisters, so my sister Val 00:08:47.220 --> 00:08:48.990 align:middle line:84% and I were picking on my sister Judy 00:08:48.990 --> 00:08:52.680 align:middle line:84% and we were remembering this embarrassing event 00:08:52.680 --> 00:08:54.390 align:middle line:84% when she was young, and that's when 00:08:54.390 --> 00:08:59.490 align:middle line:84% my mom died and so was really funny moment on one hand. 00:08:59.490 --> 00:09:03.840 align:middle line:84% And then and it was so beautiful because she was peaceful, 00:09:03.840 --> 00:09:05.850 align:middle line:90% and it wasn't scary. 00:09:05.850 --> 00:09:08.490 align:middle line:84% She was just very peaceful and she went-- 00:09:08.490 --> 00:09:11.910 align:middle line:84% And then afterwards, I get very sad. 00:09:11.910 --> 00:09:14.880 align:middle line:84% We went-- my other sisters, when we brought her down 00:09:14.880 --> 00:09:17.640 align:middle line:84% from the mountain, we went and bought all of the roses 00:09:17.640 --> 00:09:19.920 align:middle line:84% in the Safeway store next door and we 00:09:19.920 --> 00:09:22.870 align:middle line:90% put rose petals all over her. 00:09:22.870 --> 00:09:26.110 align:middle line:90% Just to honor her. 00:09:26.110 --> 00:09:30.680 align:middle line:84% And then when they took her body away, it made me very sad, 00:09:30.680 --> 00:09:32.500 align:middle line:90% and then I was very sad. 00:09:32.500 --> 00:09:36.952 align:middle line:90% 00:09:36.952 --> 00:09:38.410 align:middle line:84% We have time for one more question. 00:09:38.410 --> 00:09:48.040 align:middle line:90% 00:09:48.040 --> 00:09:48.820 align:middle line:90% Ixnay, ixnay. 00:09:48.820 --> 00:09:58.923 align:middle line:90% 00:09:58.923 --> 00:10:00.840 align:middle line:84% I'm just wondering if you think of an audience 00:10:00.840 --> 00:10:04.663 align:middle line:84% when you're writing in particular. 00:10:04.663 --> 00:10:05.955 align:middle line:90% Is that something you consider? 00:10:05.955 --> 00:10:08.790 align:middle line:90% 00:10:08.790 --> 00:10:09.375 align:middle line:90% Good question. 00:10:09.375 --> 00:10:14.490 align:middle line:90% 00:10:14.490 --> 00:10:18.600 align:middle line:90% It's an audience of one or two. 00:10:18.600 --> 00:10:24.240 align:middle line:84% You're writing somewhat for the page, 00:10:24.240 --> 00:10:26.850 align:middle line:84% so you're writing somewhat for yourself. 00:10:26.850 --> 00:10:32.880 align:middle line:84% At the same time, you've got to somehow envision a listener, 00:10:32.880 --> 00:10:36.240 align:middle line:84% so at least my method or what I do 00:10:36.240 --> 00:10:38.160 align:middle line:84% might be different for other people, 00:10:38.160 --> 00:10:42.580 align:middle line:84% but it's putting things together. 00:10:42.580 --> 00:10:46.260 align:middle line:84% And when you know you have a poem 00:10:46.260 --> 00:10:49.980 align:middle line:84% is when you read it through and you're done after, maybe, 00:10:49.980 --> 00:10:50.910 align:middle line:90% a lot of editing. 00:10:50.910 --> 00:10:55.260 align:middle line:84% And you go, this is it, this is complete. 00:10:55.260 --> 00:11:01.370 align:middle line:84% And so at that point, it's a self-satisfaction first, 00:11:01.370 --> 00:11:04.490 align:middle line:90% and then it's a reader. 00:11:04.490 --> 00:11:06.290 align:middle line:84% And then it's an audience, but the audience 00:11:06.290 --> 00:11:08.780 align:middle line:84% is really I think third, to tell you the truth. 00:11:08.780 --> 00:11:14.105 align:middle line:84% You know, it's really first for yourself and maybe one. 00:11:14.105 --> 00:11:18.840 align:middle line:90% 00:11:18.840 --> 00:11:22.320 align:middle line:84% The best poems always come unbidden. 00:11:22.320 --> 00:11:24.210 align:middle line:90% And they're always-- 00:11:24.210 --> 00:11:27.540 align:middle line:84% I don't like to use-- all the inspiration is breathing in, 00:11:27.540 --> 00:11:36.210 align:middle line:84% and the voice that comes is the best possible part of myself 00:11:36.210 --> 00:11:41.190 align:middle line:84% that escapes myself, that escapes the every day petty 00:11:41.190 --> 00:11:43.470 align:middle line:90% person that I can be. 00:11:43.470 --> 00:11:46.170 align:middle line:84% When I'm really writing and I'm writing well, 00:11:46.170 --> 00:11:48.480 align:middle line:84% I don't think about audience at all. 00:11:48.480 --> 00:11:49.350 align:middle line:90% I don't think. 00:11:49.350 --> 00:11:52.320 align:middle line:84% I try-- I don't even try, I just don't think. 00:11:52.320 --> 00:11:57.360 align:middle line:84% I'm in a different intuitive kind of space. 00:11:57.360 --> 00:12:03.300 align:middle line:84% And then when I'm revising, I want to-- poems, 00:12:03.300 --> 00:12:06.870 align:middle line:84% I want my poems to be accessible enough for people 00:12:06.870 --> 00:12:09.030 align:middle line:90% to hear and to read. 00:12:09.030 --> 00:12:12.190 align:middle line:84% I come from a family of real storytellers, 00:12:12.190 --> 00:12:15.240 align:middle line:84% so storytelling is very important to me. 00:12:15.240 --> 00:12:17.380 align:middle line:84% My grandma was Czech, my grandpa was Russian, 00:12:17.380 --> 00:12:24.200 align:middle line:84% they're very, very storytelling kind of culture and musical. 00:12:24.200 --> 00:12:27.510 align:middle line:84% I hear music all the time, I hear the way 00:12:27.510 --> 00:12:29.830 align:middle line:90% that words impact one another. 00:12:29.830 --> 00:12:32.340 align:middle line:84% And so I don't think about that either. 00:12:32.340 --> 00:12:35.830 align:middle line:84% It's all given and I feel like it's such a blessing, 00:12:35.830 --> 00:12:38.205 align:middle line:90% it's such a gift. 00:12:38.205 --> 00:12:40.090 align:middle line:84% In my worst moments, I always think, 00:12:40.090 --> 00:12:42.270 align:middle line:84% oh, it's never going to come back, you know? 00:12:42.270 --> 00:12:43.320 align:middle line:90% Ooh, I got lucky. 00:12:43.320 --> 00:12:46.050 align:middle line:90% 00:12:46.050 --> 00:12:49.020 align:middle line:90% But it is. 00:12:49.020 --> 00:12:52.080 align:middle line:84% I don't think about audience, except in terms of, 00:12:52.080 --> 00:12:56.220 align:middle line:84% why would I write unless people would understand me? 00:12:56.220 --> 00:12:59.940 align:middle line:84% I wouldn't just want to write for 00:12:59.940 --> 00:13:02.842 align:middle line:84% my own personal gratification, that then I 00:13:02.842 --> 00:13:03.675 align:middle line:90% should shoot myself. 00:13:03.675 --> 00:13:07.470 align:middle line:90% 00:13:07.470 --> 00:13:09.240 align:middle line:90% OK, thank you guys so much. 00:13:09.240 --> 00:13:11.735 align:middle line:84% Let's give them another round of applause. 00:13:11.735 --> 00:13:15.000 align:middle line:90%