WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:01.040 align:middle line:90% Hi, everyone. 00:00:01.040 --> 00:00:03.030 align:middle line:90% Buenas tardes. 00:00:03.030 --> 00:00:06.450 align:middle line:84% I'm so excited that you're all here for this colloquium 00:00:06.450 --> 00:00:10.680 align:middle line:84% on translation with our readers of last evening, 00:00:10.680 --> 00:00:13.440 align:middle line:90% Lila Zemborain and Rosa Alcalá. 00:00:13.440 --> 00:00:16.890 align:middle line:84% And I know I saw a lot of you guys at the reading, 00:00:16.890 --> 00:00:20.820 align:middle line:90% So I just how wonderful it was. 00:00:20.820 --> 00:00:26.490 align:middle line:84% And I for one, am really interested in hearing more 00:00:26.490 --> 00:00:29.880 align:middle line:84% about the dual poem that you read. 00:00:29.880 --> 00:00:34.708 align:middle line:84% I was talking with someone after the reading Julian Etienne, 00:00:34.708 --> 00:00:36.000 align:middle line:90% who's in the Mexican consulate. 00:00:36.000 --> 00:00:38.580 align:middle line:84% And he said that he could hear and understand 00:00:38.580 --> 00:00:41.310 align:middle line:84% both sides of the poem simultaneously. 00:00:41.310 --> 00:00:43.260 align:middle line:90% I thought that was so cool. 00:00:43.260 --> 00:00:46.410 align:middle line:84% I know that you guys probably have questions as well 00:00:46.410 --> 00:00:49.980 align:middle line:84% and we're just going to turn the mic over to Lila and Rosa. 00:00:49.980 --> 00:00:54.310 align:middle line:84% And thank you both for being here. 00:00:54.310 --> 00:00:58.240 align:middle line:84% So thank you so much for having us again, 00:00:58.240 --> 00:00:59.730 align:middle line:90% talking about our work. 00:00:59.730 --> 00:01:02.250 align:middle line:90% Yes. 00:01:02.250 --> 00:01:05.489 align:middle line:84% So I guess the idea for the colloquium 00:01:05.489 --> 00:01:08.070 align:middle line:84% was we were going to have a dialogue. 00:01:08.070 --> 00:01:10.300 align:middle line:84% And the reason we thought of having a dialogue 00:01:10.300 --> 00:01:12.630 align:middle line:84% and asking each other questions because our process 00:01:12.630 --> 00:01:15.810 align:middle line:84% of translation has been in the form of a dialogue. 00:01:15.810 --> 00:01:18.870 align:middle line:90% We collaborate when I translate. 00:01:18.870 --> 00:01:22.780 align:middle line:84% But because Lila is living and when you translate dead people. 00:01:22.780 --> 00:01:23.280 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHS] 00:01:23.280 --> 00:01:26.040 align:middle line:84% I mean, you can talk to dead people. 00:01:26.040 --> 00:01:27.570 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:01:27.570 --> 00:01:30.630 align:middle line:84% But it's a little harder to get a response. 00:01:30.630 --> 00:01:33.630 align:middle line:84% So with Lila we've had this ongoing conversation 00:01:33.630 --> 00:01:37.410 align:middle line:84% about her work and that helps me to translate her. 00:01:37.410 --> 00:01:40.470 align:middle line:84% And I imagine that it also helps you 00:01:40.470 --> 00:01:43.840 align:middle line:84% to think about your own work when those questions are asked. 00:01:43.840 --> 00:01:47.790 align:middle line:84% So I'm going to start off with a question for Lila 00:01:47.790 --> 00:01:50.010 align:middle line:84% and then we're going to go back and forth. 00:01:50.010 --> 00:01:53.190 align:middle line:84% And hope that something emerges that could 00:01:53.190 --> 00:01:59.290 align:middle line:84% be useful in sort of opening up a discussion about translation. 00:01:59.290 --> 00:02:08.190 align:middle line:84% So when I started translating Lila's work, 00:02:08.190 --> 00:02:11.070 align:middle line:90% gosh I was probably in my 20s. 00:02:11.070 --> 00:02:13.710 align:middle line:84% Yeah, I was in my 20s and I really 00:02:13.710 --> 00:02:15.690 align:middle line:90% hadn't translated that much. 00:02:15.690 --> 00:02:20.640 align:middle line:84% So I really credit Lila for teaching me how to translate. 00:02:20.640 --> 00:02:28.290 align:middle line:84% Because she put her trust in me and she allowed me 00:02:28.290 --> 00:02:32.340 align:middle line:84% to sort of work through some of the questions of translation 00:02:32.340 --> 00:02:38.550 align:middle line:84% and sort of start to create my own approach to translation. 00:02:38.550 --> 00:02:41.700 align:middle line:84% I had read some translation theory, 00:02:41.700 --> 00:02:45.210 align:middle line:84% I knew what I liked and didn't like in poetry. 00:02:45.210 --> 00:02:48.420 align:middle line:84% I mean I didn't have zero tools with me 00:02:48.420 --> 00:02:53.610 align:middle line:84% but she allowed me to hone my skills as a translator. 00:02:53.610 --> 00:02:56.070 align:middle line:84% And in the process of translating her work 00:02:56.070 --> 00:02:59.170 align:middle line:84% I've asked her so many questions. 00:02:59.170 --> 00:03:03.360 align:middle line:84% And I think that it's very difficult as a poet, 00:03:03.360 --> 00:03:06.420 align:middle line:84% because I'm also a poet to answer questions 00:03:06.420 --> 00:03:08.500 align:middle line:90% about your own work. 00:03:08.500 --> 00:03:10.552 align:middle line:84% So someone will ask you, well, why 00:03:10.552 --> 00:03:11.760 align:middle line:90% do you have that image there? 00:03:11.760 --> 00:03:13.050 align:middle line:90% And you're like, I don't know. 00:03:13.050 --> 00:03:15.630 align:middle line:84% I mean you're really the least articulate person usually 00:03:15.630 --> 00:03:17.230 align:middle line:90% about your own work. 00:03:17.230 --> 00:03:20.160 align:middle line:84% And so I wanted to ask Lila I mean, was it-- 00:03:20.160 --> 00:03:23.010 align:middle line:84% is it difficult and I say was because hopefully we'll 00:03:23.010 --> 00:03:24.450 align:middle line:90% continue collaborating. 00:03:24.450 --> 00:03:28.560 align:middle line:84% I know that lately I haven't had as much time as I'd like to. 00:03:28.560 --> 00:03:30.040 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:03:30.040 --> 00:03:36.360 align:middle line:84% But I wanted to ask you how has it 00:03:36.360 --> 00:03:39.330 align:middle line:84% felt to have to respond to all of these questions? 00:03:39.330 --> 00:03:43.380 align:middle line:84% To have to come up when I say to you, why is this here? 00:03:43.380 --> 00:03:44.470 align:middle line:90% What does this mean? 00:03:44.470 --> 00:03:45.720 align:middle line:90% Why are you putting this here? 00:03:45.720 --> 00:03:48.030 align:middle line:84% I have to understand the context of it. 00:03:48.030 --> 00:03:52.290 align:middle line:84% Is it difficult to enter your work in that way? 00:03:52.290 --> 00:03:54.480 align:middle line:84% And do you actually learn something about it? 00:03:54.480 --> 00:03:57.690 align:middle line:84% I know that sometimes you sort of have left it vague 00:03:57.690 --> 00:04:01.710 align:middle line:84% and given me the opportunity to interpret it myself, 00:04:01.710 --> 00:04:03.810 align:middle line:84% which I think is extremely generous. 00:04:03.810 --> 00:04:06.780 align:middle line:84% And allows for maybe even a more complex translation. 00:04:06.780 --> 00:04:09.250 align:middle line:84% But I mean, how does it feel to be 00:04:09.250 --> 00:04:11.250 align:middle line:84% put on the spot on your own work in order for it 00:04:11.250 --> 00:04:12.990 align:middle line:90% to be translated? 00:04:12.990 --> 00:04:14.580 align:middle line:84% Well, first of all, I don't think 00:04:14.580 --> 00:04:18.480 align:middle line:84% you were inexperienced at all when you started. 00:04:18.480 --> 00:04:21.329 align:middle line:84% Because she had already translated the work of Cecilia 00:04:21.329 --> 00:04:27.000 align:middle line:84% Vicuna, which is very complex and because the mix 00:04:27.000 --> 00:04:29.370 align:middle line:84% of languages, and the structure of quechua. 00:04:29.370 --> 00:04:31.330 align:middle line:84% And Cecilia's work is very complex. 00:04:31.330 --> 00:04:35.280 align:middle line:84% So already when we began working together 00:04:35.280 --> 00:04:38.100 align:middle line:90% I completely trusted you. 00:04:38.100 --> 00:04:42.130 align:middle line:84% So I didn't have any mixed feelings, you're a beginner. 00:04:42.130 --> 00:04:44.290 align:middle line:90% I didn't even think about that. 00:04:44.290 --> 00:04:49.230 align:middle line:84% So I think the process of the dialogue 00:04:49.230 --> 00:04:55.080 align:middle line:84% that we have is always very good for me. 00:04:55.080 --> 00:04:59.310 align:middle line:84% In the sense that these are so precise 00:04:59.310 --> 00:05:02.370 align:middle line:84% questions that she generally does. 00:05:02.370 --> 00:05:04.940 align:middle line:84% That you have to explain what does it mean? 00:05:04.940 --> 00:05:08.700 align:middle line:84% Certain part of the work that it makes you 00:05:08.700 --> 00:05:12.300 align:middle line:84% think a lot of what you are doing. 00:05:12.300 --> 00:05:15.030 align:middle line:84% And the other part that I was thinking about 00:05:15.030 --> 00:05:19.710 align:middle line:84% is that in my writing and in every writing, 00:05:19.710 --> 00:05:21.720 align:middle line:90% there is always a secret. 00:05:21.720 --> 00:05:23.760 align:middle line:84% There is something that is hidden 00:05:23.760 --> 00:05:28.350 align:middle line:84% and something that we are not saying through those words. 00:05:28.350 --> 00:05:31.290 align:middle line:84% And this is my case, one of my books 00:05:31.290 --> 00:05:33.330 align:middle line:84% is called Guardians Of The Secret. 00:05:33.330 --> 00:05:39.900 align:middle line:84% Maybe poetry is for me a secret very well guarded. 00:05:39.900 --> 00:05:46.630 align:middle line:84% So in the process of translation that secret has to be revealed. 00:05:46.630 --> 00:05:53.830 align:middle line:84% So the translator can understand what is going on in the work. 00:05:53.830 --> 00:05:59.460 align:middle line:84% So I always thought as a translation-- 00:05:59.460 --> 00:06:02.550 align:middle line:84% no actually I thought it about half an hour 00:06:02.550 --> 00:06:06.090 align:middle line:84% ago when I was trying to think about the questions 00:06:06.090 --> 00:06:08.820 align:middle line:90% always at the last minute. 00:06:08.820 --> 00:06:11.010 align:middle line:84% And I think about translation now 00:06:11.010 --> 00:06:13.170 align:middle line:90% as a kind of a detective work. 00:06:13.170 --> 00:06:16.830 align:middle line:84% Because you're trying to see all these kind of clues 00:06:16.830 --> 00:06:20.730 align:middle line:84% and to understand so deeply what is going on in the text. 00:06:20.730 --> 00:06:27.400 align:middle line:84% That I see your work as a kind of detective work. 00:06:27.400 --> 00:06:35.070 align:middle line:84% And so my question to you was, do 00:06:35.070 --> 00:06:39.900 align:middle line:84% you have the sensation of a detective when you translate? 00:06:39.900 --> 00:06:42.450 align:middle line:84% Trying to unfold these kind of secrets 00:06:42.450 --> 00:06:48.060 align:middle line:84% that the work is trying not to reveal. 00:06:48.060 --> 00:06:50.560 align:middle line:84% That's a good question, do I feel like a detective? 00:06:50.560 --> 00:06:53.100 align:middle line:90% 00:06:53.100 --> 00:06:56.250 align:middle line:84% I don't know if I thought of it in terms of detective work. 00:06:56.250 --> 00:06:59.730 align:middle line:84% I mean, I think that there's a way when I'm reading it. 00:06:59.730 --> 00:07:04.230 align:middle line:84% In my process normally when I'm translating is that 00:07:04.230 --> 00:07:11.850 align:middle line:84% sometimes it almost feels like sort of automatic writing. 00:07:11.850 --> 00:07:15.180 align:middle line:84% That I'm reading the work and also 00:07:15.180 --> 00:07:19.110 align:middle line:84% trying to find the English equivalent with the other hand. 00:07:19.110 --> 00:07:22.590 align:middle line:84% And that's a very, very sort of rough early draft of it. 00:07:22.590 --> 00:07:25.500 align:middle line:84% But there's something for me because I am bilingual. 00:07:25.500 --> 00:07:30.370 align:middle line:84% Is that the rhythm of Spanish and particularly Lila's. 00:07:30.370 --> 00:07:32.790 align:middle line:84% I mean, if you've read Mauve Sea-Orchids, 00:07:32.790 --> 00:07:36.210 align:middle line:84% it's this thing where it's this wave, these long lines, 00:07:36.210 --> 00:07:39.610 align:middle line:84% the syntax is incredibly important to the work. 00:07:39.610 --> 00:07:41.580 align:middle line:84% And so when you're reading it you 00:07:41.580 --> 00:07:44.010 align:middle line:84% feel like there's this unfolding in it. 00:07:44.010 --> 00:07:46.145 align:middle line:84% And you have to give yourself to that unfolding. 00:07:46.145 --> 00:07:47.520 align:middle line:84% I mean, that's part of the secret 00:07:47.520 --> 00:07:50.160 align:middle line:84% too because it's not the meaning of the words. 00:07:50.160 --> 00:07:53.100 align:middle line:90% It's this kind of undertow. 00:07:53.100 --> 00:07:56.250 align:middle line:84% It's this thing that's kind of pushing through the work 00:07:56.250 --> 00:07:58.110 align:middle line:84% that your body has to give in to. 00:07:58.110 --> 00:07:59.880 align:middle line:84% Just like the body of the speaker 00:07:59.880 --> 00:08:04.980 align:middle line:84% gives into the movement in the water, or the love glands, 00:08:04.980 --> 00:08:07.830 align:middle line:84% or this way where we don't have control. 00:08:07.830 --> 00:08:10.920 align:middle line:84% There's this kind of chemical processes going 00:08:10.920 --> 00:08:14.220 align:middle line:84% on that keep us from having logical or sort of rational 00:08:14.220 --> 00:08:15.960 align:middle line:90% control over our bodies. 00:08:15.960 --> 00:08:17.640 align:middle line:90% Thank God. 00:08:17.640 --> 00:08:19.290 align:middle line:84% But I think poetry does that too. 00:08:19.290 --> 00:08:22.500 align:middle line:84% It kind of sort of has this driving force underneath that 00:08:22.500 --> 00:08:24.360 align:middle line:84% pulls you in, that's about the sound, 00:08:24.360 --> 00:08:26.880 align:middle line:84% that it's about the tone, that's about the music, that's 00:08:26.880 --> 00:08:29.590 align:middle line:90% about a suggested meaning. 00:08:29.590 --> 00:08:31.260 align:middle line:84% And I think that's the first part 00:08:31.260 --> 00:08:34.809 align:middle line:84% that I try to give myself to before doing the detective 00:08:34.809 --> 00:08:35.309 align:middle line:90% work. 00:08:35.309 --> 00:08:37.830 align:middle line:84% Because if you do the detective work immediately 00:08:37.830 --> 00:08:39.326 align:middle line:90% you're trying to find the clue. 00:08:39.326 --> 00:08:41.159 align:middle line:84% And sometimes the clue is there in something 00:08:41.159 --> 00:08:42.809 align:middle line:90% that is not a clue. 00:08:42.809 --> 00:08:44.430 align:middle line:84% Like you're looking for well, where's 00:08:44.430 --> 00:08:46.200 align:middle line:90% the secret key under here? 00:08:46.200 --> 00:08:49.470 align:middle line:84% But the thing is that everything else might be just as important 00:08:49.470 --> 00:08:51.420 align:middle line:84% and it's just this kind of sensation 00:08:51.420 --> 00:08:53.490 align:middle line:90% that you're trying to gather. 00:08:53.490 --> 00:08:56.760 align:middle line:84% And I've often pointed to the syntax as the first thing 00:08:56.760 --> 00:09:00.510 align:middle line:84% to getting to the meaning of the work. 00:09:00.510 --> 00:09:03.420 align:middle line:84% When you're translating as you might imagine 00:09:03.420 --> 00:09:06.180 align:middle line:84% is the syntax might change because you're trying to make 00:09:06.180 --> 00:09:07.600 align:middle line:90% sense in another language. 00:09:07.600 --> 00:09:10.470 align:middle line:84% So you might have to rearrange word order. 00:09:10.470 --> 00:09:14.280 align:middle line:84% So it sounds natural in the English. 00:09:14.280 --> 00:09:16.740 align:middle line:84% I sometimes try to create lines that 00:09:16.740 --> 00:09:18.540 align:middle line:84% don't sound natural in the English, 00:09:18.540 --> 00:09:22.170 align:middle line:90% in order to retain that syntax. 00:09:22.170 --> 00:09:25.470 align:middle line:84% Because first of all, her poetry doesn't always 00:09:25.470 --> 00:09:27.257 align:middle line:90% sound natural in Spanish either. 00:09:27.257 --> 00:09:28.590 align:middle line:90% I mean, do you know what I mean? 00:09:28.590 --> 00:09:31.620 align:middle line:84% It's not necessarily just a conversational Spanish, 00:09:31.620 --> 00:09:32.700 align:middle line:90% it's poetry. 00:09:32.700 --> 00:09:35.340 align:middle line:84% I mean, she manipulates the language in a certain way, 00:09:35.340 --> 00:09:38.700 align:middle line:84% and she causes a certain cadence, and a certain movement 00:09:38.700 --> 00:09:39.840 align:middle line:90% in that Spanish. 00:09:39.840 --> 00:09:42.480 align:middle line:84% So that I try to replicate that in the English. 00:09:42.480 --> 00:09:48.270 align:middle line:84% I mean, without it turning it into senseless order. 00:09:48.270 --> 00:09:52.380 align:middle line:84% But trying to create that so that one thing 00:09:52.380 --> 00:09:53.410 align:middle line:90% leads to another. 00:09:53.410 --> 00:09:57.630 align:middle line:84% And in the last part that I translated, 00:09:57.630 --> 00:10:00.130 align:middle line:84% the body that is moving through water 00:10:00.130 --> 00:10:03.070 align:middle line:84% as it's moving its head from one side to another 00:10:03.070 --> 00:10:04.780 align:middle line:90% is seeing different things. 00:10:04.780 --> 00:10:09.010 align:middle line:84% So it's seeing rocks, I'm sorry, it's seeing the ocean, 00:10:09.010 --> 00:10:11.830 align:middle line:84% then it's seeing the sky, it's seeing the sun. 00:10:11.830 --> 00:10:15.118 align:middle line:84% That word order is specific because we're following 00:10:15.118 --> 00:10:16.160 align:middle line:90% the movement of the body. 00:10:16.160 --> 00:10:17.470 align:middle line:84% If you don't have the word order you 00:10:17.470 --> 00:10:19.428 align:middle line:84% don't see the things specifically in that order 00:10:19.428 --> 00:10:21.370 align:middle line:84% and that's what I was trying to retain. 00:10:21.370 --> 00:10:23.890 align:middle line:84% I know that doesn't answer your question because I thought 00:10:23.890 --> 00:10:26.360 align:middle line:90% of myself as a detective. 00:10:26.360 --> 00:10:28.870 align:middle line:84% But immersing yourself in that I guess, 00:10:28.870 --> 00:10:31.450 align:middle line:84% is kind of like being a detective. 00:10:31.450 --> 00:10:35.320 align:middle line:84% Yeah, no well, maybe I was not thinking 00:10:35.320 --> 00:10:38.830 align:middle line:84% in that particular poem when I was asking the question. 00:10:38.830 --> 00:10:46.120 align:middle line:84% And because it's true that what I 00:10:46.120 --> 00:10:48.400 align:middle line:84% find very difficult about translating 00:10:48.400 --> 00:10:54.580 align:middle line:84% is that when I write it's like entering 00:10:54.580 --> 00:10:59.020 align:middle line:84% into a state of a certain rhythm. 00:10:59.020 --> 00:11:01.210 align:middle line:84% In the moment that I enter in a rhythm, 00:11:01.210 --> 00:11:03.970 align:middle line:84% is the moment that I feel that I'm really writing. 00:11:03.970 --> 00:11:12.040 align:middle line:84% So for me it is very amazing also that you could capture. 00:11:12.040 --> 00:11:16.570 align:middle line:84% That that's the thing that most attract me about your work. 00:11:16.570 --> 00:11:21.640 align:middle line:84% That you could capture the rhythm of my writing. 00:11:21.640 --> 00:11:25.330 align:middle line:84% I don't know how to explain it because as she explained also, 00:11:25.330 --> 00:11:26.860 align:middle line:90% it's such a bodily thing. 00:11:26.860 --> 00:11:30.070 align:middle line:84% It's almost like when I'm writing I'm almost moving. 00:11:30.070 --> 00:11:34.300 align:middle line:84% I don't write in the computer, I write in notebooks. 00:11:34.300 --> 00:11:39.190 align:middle line:84% So when I feel this rhythm is the moment of the writing. 00:11:39.190 --> 00:11:44.350 align:middle line:84% But the other amazing thing also with Rosa's work 00:11:44.350 --> 00:11:50.840 align:middle line:84% is that she translated first Guardians Of The Secret. 00:11:50.840 --> 00:11:52.750 align:middle line:90% Now we had that experience. 00:11:52.750 --> 00:11:54.350 align:middle line:84% First you translated something else. 00:11:54.350 --> 00:11:58.130 align:middle line:84% But in Guardians Of The Secret the poems are very short, 00:11:58.130 --> 00:11:59.110 align:middle line:90% some of them. 00:11:59.110 --> 00:12:04.270 align:middle line:84% And many times I did bilingual readings. 00:12:04.270 --> 00:12:08.860 align:middle line:84% And always there is a problem about yourself reading 00:12:08.860 --> 00:12:10.180 align:middle line:90% in English and in Spanish. 00:12:10.180 --> 00:12:13.240 align:middle line:84% It seems like you're reading in Spanish and then in English, 00:12:13.240 --> 00:12:16.060 align:middle line:84% and then you have to do the same thing, the same emotion 00:12:16.060 --> 00:12:17.440 align:middle line:90% in the other languages. 00:12:17.440 --> 00:12:19.370 align:middle line:84% It's very weird to do it oneself. 00:12:19.370 --> 00:12:21.230 align:middle line:90% So with Guardians Of The Secret. 00:12:21.230 --> 00:12:24.430 align:middle line:84% I decided to read one poem in Spanish, 00:12:24.430 --> 00:12:27.070 align:middle line:84% and another one in English, and another one in Spanish. 00:12:27.070 --> 00:12:31.000 align:middle line:84% Or maybe a longer one in English and a shorter one in Spanish. 00:12:31.000 --> 00:12:35.560 align:middle line:84% And make a mix of both languages. 00:12:35.560 --> 00:12:39.400 align:middle line:84% Not as yesterday, i know I was doing it myself. 00:12:39.400 --> 00:12:44.950 align:middle line:84% And in Rosa's translation, there is not for me 00:12:44.950 --> 00:12:47.680 align:middle line:84% a sensation that I'm changing the language. 00:12:47.680 --> 00:12:50.260 align:middle line:90% Which this is very amazing. 00:12:50.260 --> 00:12:54.670 align:middle line:84% When I read in both languages, especially short poems, 00:12:54.670 --> 00:12:59.380 align:middle line:84% I don't feel like there is a change of the rhythm. 00:12:59.380 --> 00:13:00.700 align:middle line:90% That's why I can continue. 00:13:00.700 --> 00:13:02.620 align:middle line:84% And of the syntax as you mentioned. 00:13:02.620 --> 00:13:09.460 align:middle line:90% So it's all like a flow. 00:13:09.460 --> 00:13:13.720 align:middle line:84% So I think that it's fantastic about work. 00:13:13.720 --> 00:13:15.200 align:middle line:84% I don't have a question about that. 00:13:15.200 --> 00:13:18.640 align:middle line:84% I'm just expanding about what you just said. 00:13:18.640 --> 00:13:19.970 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHS] 00:13:19.970 --> 00:13:22.150 align:middle line:84% Well, I have a question for you because you're 00:13:22.150 --> 00:13:28.330 align:middle line:84% talking about translating and the kind of things the way 00:13:28.330 --> 00:13:31.750 align:middle line:84% a translator might interpret or inhabit your work 00:13:31.750 --> 00:13:32.960 align:middle line:90% or see your work. 00:13:32.960 --> 00:13:37.330 align:middle line:84% So my advice was Mauve Sea-Orchids 00:13:37.330 --> 00:13:41.470 align:middle line:84% was translated by two people, by myself and Monica de la Torre. 00:13:41.470 --> 00:13:45.610 align:middle line:84% I think the reason for that was I had translated a section 00:13:45.610 --> 00:13:47.680 align:middle line:84% and then I was writing my dissertation, 00:13:47.680 --> 00:13:50.530 align:middle line:84% or moving to El Paso or something. 00:13:50.530 --> 00:13:53.320 align:middle line:90% Some major upheaval. 00:13:53.320 --> 00:13:55.660 align:middle line:84% And I said, I really can't work on this now. 00:13:55.660 --> 00:13:58.030 align:middle line:84% And you found Monica who's an amazing translator. 00:13:58.030 --> 00:13:59.230 align:middle line:90% I don't know, she was here. 00:13:59.230 --> 00:14:00.688 align:middle line:84% But I was desperate In that moment. 00:14:00.688 --> 00:14:02.020 align:middle line:90% You were desperate. 00:14:02.020 --> 00:14:04.910 align:middle line:84% Because you tell me I cannot do it. 00:14:04.910 --> 00:14:05.680 align:middle line:90% I know. 00:14:05.680 --> 00:14:07.090 align:middle line:90% It was like a breakup. 00:14:07.090 --> 00:14:08.680 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] No, I wasn't. 00:14:08.680 --> 00:14:12.130 align:middle line:84% It was tough, but we worked it out. 00:14:12.130 --> 00:14:13.390 align:middle line:90% No, it was really-- 00:14:13.390 --> 00:14:17.740 align:middle line:84% I mean just as an aside I form relationships with people. 00:14:17.740 --> 00:14:21.790 align:middle line:84% I mean, you don't translate someone's work the way 00:14:21.790 --> 00:14:23.920 align:middle line:84% that you cash someone's check at the bank. 00:14:23.920 --> 00:14:29.290 align:middle line:84% I mean it's not just this kind of exchange that ends once. 00:14:29.290 --> 00:14:33.040 align:middle line:84% At least for me I've formed real personal relationships 00:14:33.040 --> 00:14:33.610 align:middle line:90% with people. 00:14:33.610 --> 00:14:38.110 align:middle line:84% So I consider Lila one of my dearest friends. 00:14:38.110 --> 00:14:40.090 align:middle line:90% And so there's this kind of-- 00:14:40.090 --> 00:14:42.610 align:middle line:84% And it's interesting because after a while 00:14:42.610 --> 00:14:44.410 align:middle line:90% it helps to know that person. 00:14:44.410 --> 00:14:47.320 align:middle line:90% 00:14:47.320 --> 00:14:51.160 align:middle line:84% And I find it a real privilege to be sort of completely 00:14:51.160 --> 00:14:53.440 align:middle line:90% part of their creative process. 00:14:53.440 --> 00:14:55.570 align:middle line:84% And so at that moment that I couldn't do it, 00:14:55.570 --> 00:14:56.800 align:middle line:90% it was difficult to say no. 00:14:56.800 --> 00:14:59.768 align:middle line:84% It's always difficult to say no to Lila 00:14:59.768 --> 00:15:02.310 align:middle line:84% because she makes it really easy to work with her to tell you 00:15:02.310 --> 00:15:04.320 align:middle line:90% the truth. 00:15:04.320 --> 00:15:05.790 align:middle line:90% So she found Monica de la Torre. 00:15:05.790 --> 00:15:07.020 align:middle line:90% So the question is-- 00:15:07.020 --> 00:15:10.870 align:middle line:84% Monica de la Torre has translated amazing people 00:15:10.870 --> 00:15:12.870 align:middle line:84% and is a very good translator, a very good poet. 00:15:12.870 --> 00:15:13.720 align:middle line:90% She was here. 00:15:13.720 --> 00:15:15.970 align:middle line:84% I don't know if any of you have seen her. 00:15:15.970 --> 00:15:20.100 align:middle line:84% She was here and she translated the first part. 00:15:20.100 --> 00:15:26.790 align:middle line:84% So it's curious to me how you found the process differ 00:15:26.790 --> 00:15:27.873 align:middle line:90% from translator. 00:15:27.873 --> 00:15:29.790 align:middle line:84% Do you think that you learned different things 00:15:29.790 --> 00:15:33.870 align:middle line:84% about your own work from what she saw, from what I saw? 00:15:33.870 --> 00:15:35.340 align:middle line:84% Did you have certain expectations 00:15:35.340 --> 00:15:38.430 align:middle line:84% of what a translator does and then you 00:15:38.430 --> 00:15:39.450 align:middle line:90% had another translator? 00:15:39.450 --> 00:15:40.840 align:middle line:90% I'm just curious. 00:15:40.840 --> 00:15:41.340 align:middle line:90% Yes. 00:15:41.340 --> 00:15:45.930 align:middle line:84% With Monica was interesting because also 00:15:45.930 --> 00:15:48.510 align:middle line:84% because of Mauve Sea-Orchids, it's 00:15:48.510 --> 00:15:52.990 align:middle line:84% a book that for me has different tones in each part. 00:15:52.990 --> 00:15:58.110 align:middle line:84% So the first part of the book has that pedantic tone 00:15:58.110 --> 00:16:01.830 align:middle line:84% that was mentioned yesterday, which is true. 00:16:01.830 --> 00:16:09.000 align:middle line:84% But is more like mocking intellectual tone that I 00:16:09.000 --> 00:16:12.630 align:middle line:84% was using in that moment to create 00:16:12.630 --> 00:16:17.910 align:middle line:84% like a theory of perception completely invented. 00:16:17.910 --> 00:16:20.940 align:middle line:84% And I don't know having fun with it 00:16:20.940 --> 00:16:25.660 align:middle line:84% but using the tone of an academic paper. 00:16:25.660 --> 00:16:28.200 align:middle line:84% Which didn't turn out completely like that, no. 00:16:28.200 --> 00:16:31.560 align:middle line:84% But all the, like --nexos, cómo se dice-- 00:16:31.560 --> 00:16:34.930 align:middle line:90% the word that you, los nexos? 00:16:34.930 --> 00:16:36.420 align:middle line:90% The connecting words. 00:16:36.420 --> 00:16:39.570 align:middle line:84% All the connecting words are like, however, 00:16:39.570 --> 00:16:42.990 align:middle line:84% and this, you know, de esta manera. 00:16:42.990 --> 00:16:44.820 align:middle line:84% Yeah, I'm trying to remember what it is. 00:16:44.820 --> 00:16:46.320 align:middle line:84% Here I am the translator, I'm like I 00:16:46.320 --> 00:16:48.403 align:middle line:84% don't know how it said in English, I have no idea. 00:16:48.403 --> 00:16:49.230 align:middle line:90% I can't remember. 00:16:49.230 --> 00:16:56.040 align:middle line:84% I was teaching a composition to people writing in Spanish, 00:16:56.040 --> 00:16:59.140 align:middle line:84% so I had to teach them all these kind of words. 00:16:59.140 --> 00:17:03.720 align:middle line:84% And so I was tired of those but I use all those words. 00:17:03.720 --> 00:17:11.520 align:middle line:84% And Monica is a very bright and intellectual person 00:17:11.520 --> 00:17:13.710 align:middle line:84% who really connected with this kind 00:17:13.710 --> 00:17:16.470 align:middle line:84% of it's not a joke because it's not funny 00:17:16.470 --> 00:17:17.550 align:middle line:90% the way that I wrote it. 00:17:17.550 --> 00:17:19.680 align:middle line:84% But she connected very well with this kind 00:17:19.680 --> 00:17:24.119 align:middle line:84% of pseudo intellectual thing that I was doing. 00:17:24.119 --> 00:17:33.250 align:middle line:84% Mixed with at the same time, something very intuitive. 00:17:33.250 --> 00:17:38.280 align:middle line:84% And I think that was great that she was doing 00:17:38.280 --> 00:17:40.950 align:middle line:90% the translation for this part. 00:17:40.950 --> 00:17:47.610 align:middle line:84% And the second part is like a more prophetic, 00:17:47.610 --> 00:17:53.520 align:middle line:84% let's say kind of prophetic writing in Malvas. 00:17:53.520 --> 00:17:58.065 align:middle line:84% And I was afraid that it was going to look very new agey. 00:17:58.065 --> 00:18:06.510 align:middle line:84% [LAUGHS] So for that Monica was very good in that sense. 00:18:06.510 --> 00:18:09.900 align:middle line:84% Because always when you are in the process of translation, 00:18:09.900 --> 00:18:14.280 align:middle line:84% which is also for me a process of writing. 00:18:14.280 --> 00:18:17.100 align:middle line:84% Because sometimes when I'm writing 00:18:17.100 --> 00:18:19.260 align:middle line:84% they are doing the translations at the same time. 00:18:19.260 --> 00:18:21.240 align:middle line:84% Because I have a reading or something. 00:18:21.240 --> 00:18:23.710 align:middle line:84% And I need to translate this work. 00:18:23.710 --> 00:18:25.410 align:middle line:84% And so then no desperately calling. 00:18:25.410 --> 00:18:27.300 align:middle line:84% It was like, I need this by Monday. 00:18:27.300 --> 00:18:28.170 align:middle line:90% It's Sunday Lila. 00:18:28.170 --> 00:18:28.670 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:18:28.670 --> 00:18:30.210 align:middle line:90% Yes. 00:18:30.210 --> 00:18:33.870 align:middle line:84% So then it gives you the opportunity 00:18:33.870 --> 00:18:36.330 align:middle line:84% to completely rethink of what you are doing 00:18:36.330 --> 00:18:38.950 align:middle line:90% or maybe this is awful. 00:18:38.950 --> 00:18:39.690 align:middle line:90% What did I do? 00:18:39.690 --> 00:18:42.750 align:middle line:84% When you see the translation what did I do here? 00:18:42.750 --> 00:18:46.410 align:middle line:84% So then you have to go over it, and correct it, 00:18:46.410 --> 00:18:50.400 align:middle line:84% and it was a very good experience. 00:18:50.400 --> 00:18:56.250 align:middle line:84% Also Monica mentioned me also that for her it 00:18:56.250 --> 00:19:01.860 align:middle line:84% was really hard to get into the rhythm of my Spanish 00:19:01.860 --> 00:19:03.840 align:middle line:84% from Argentina, which is completely 00:19:03.840 --> 00:19:07.620 align:middle line:84% different from the rhythm of the Spanish in Mexico. 00:19:07.620 --> 00:19:10.830 align:middle line:84% So for her it was like a challenge 00:19:10.830 --> 00:19:13.650 align:middle line:84% to get into the rhythm because she 00:19:13.650 --> 00:19:16.620 align:middle line:84% puts certain accents in different places 00:19:16.620 --> 00:19:18.640 align:middle line:90% of the sentence. 00:19:18.640 --> 00:19:22.710 align:middle line:84% And so when I went over the translation 00:19:22.710 --> 00:19:25.260 align:middle line:84% I was reading it in English with her 00:19:25.260 --> 00:19:29.490 align:middle line:84% and I said, and it didn't go in the moment. 00:19:29.490 --> 00:19:32.400 align:middle line:84% I got a little bit lost sometimes 00:19:32.400 --> 00:19:35.910 align:middle line:84% in the middle of a sentence because it 00:19:35.910 --> 00:19:40.650 align:middle line:84% didn't went with the rhythm that my Spanish has. 00:19:40.650 --> 00:19:43.920 align:middle line:84% And she did an amazing job with that 00:19:43.920 --> 00:19:50.970 align:middle line:84% because it got completely like smooth and she could do it. 00:19:50.970 --> 00:19:54.660 align:middle line:84% That is what I think about translators that it was 00:19:54.660 --> 00:19:56.168 align:middle line:90% in another place this question. 00:19:56.168 --> 00:19:57.210 align:middle line:90% I don't know where it is. 00:19:57.210 --> 00:20:00.830 align:middle line:84% I think that translation is such an act of generosity 00:20:00.830 --> 00:20:06.680 align:middle line:84% because it's like getting completely into the writing 00:20:06.680 --> 00:20:10.730 align:middle line:84% or into the experience of writing of another person. 00:20:10.730 --> 00:20:16.880 align:middle line:84% And I think Monica and you and the other translators 00:20:16.880 --> 00:20:18.860 align:middle line:84% as well that I have been working, 00:20:18.860 --> 00:20:27.350 align:middle line:84% they have the capacity to get into the minds. 00:20:27.350 --> 00:20:30.260 align:middle line:84% Because it's getting into the mind of another person 00:20:30.260 --> 00:20:36.890 align:middle line:84% in order to put it in the other language. 00:20:36.890 --> 00:20:39.180 align:middle line:90% Do you feel like-- 00:20:39.180 --> 00:20:41.390 align:middle line:90% Do I feel generous? 00:20:41.390 --> 00:20:49.580 align:middle line:84% Well generous no, but how can you remove yourself 00:20:49.580 --> 00:20:51.830 align:middle line:84% also from your own writing or how 00:20:51.830 --> 00:20:55.370 align:middle line:84% is the relationship between letting you 00:20:55.370 --> 00:20:59.300 align:middle line:84% go in the writing of the other person 00:20:59.300 --> 00:21:04.910 align:middle line:84% and at the same time it's like three parts the question. 00:21:04.910 --> 00:21:07.700 align:middle line:84% How do you let yourself go into the writing 00:21:07.700 --> 00:21:08.840 align:middle line:90% of the other person? 00:21:08.840 --> 00:21:11.780 align:middle line:84% Then how you recover yourself in the process 00:21:11.780 --> 00:21:16.610 align:middle line:84% of reviewing because that is the process that comes afterwards. 00:21:16.610 --> 00:21:17.930 align:middle line:90% And the last part I forgot. 00:21:17.930 --> 00:21:22.430 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHS] I have something else. 00:21:22.430 --> 00:21:23.597 align:middle line:90% Well I wanted to touch upon. 00:21:23.597 --> 00:21:25.263 align:middle line:84% And I'm going to answer those questions, 00:21:25.263 --> 00:21:26.370 align:middle line:90% I think it leads into it. 00:21:26.370 --> 00:21:29.610 align:middle line:84% I wanted to touch upon this thing that you said about. 00:21:29.610 --> 00:21:31.430 align:middle line:84% And if that's important to remember 00:21:31.430 --> 00:21:34.640 align:middle line:84% I think, is that there's not one Spanish or one English, 00:21:34.640 --> 00:21:37.610 align:middle line:84% their Englishes, there are Spanishes. 00:21:37.610 --> 00:21:44.580 align:middle line:84% There are variants of a National language. 00:21:44.580 --> 00:21:49.160 align:middle line:84% And I think that I had never thought of that before. 00:21:49.160 --> 00:21:52.412 align:middle line:84% But I guess in my case, I mean you know Monica de le 00:21:52.412 --> 00:21:54.377 align:middle line:90% Torre grew up in Mexico. 00:21:54.377 --> 00:21:56.210 align:middle line:84% But she grew up bilingual because her mother 00:21:56.210 --> 00:21:56.900 align:middle line:90% speaks English. 00:21:56.900 --> 00:21:58.692 align:middle line:84% Her mother's American and father's Mexican. 00:21:58.692 --> 00:22:01.040 align:middle line:90% 00:22:01.040 --> 00:22:03.440 align:middle line:84% My parents are Spanish but I grew up here. 00:22:03.440 --> 00:22:07.580 align:middle line:84% And I don't think that I have this kind of hardened Spanish 00:22:07.580 --> 00:22:10.550 align:middle line:84% of have a particular way because I grew up in New Jersey 00:22:10.550 --> 00:22:13.900 align:middle line:84% with so many different kinds of Spanish speakers. 00:22:13.900 --> 00:22:16.670 align:middle line:90% So I feel very much a chameleon. 00:22:16.670 --> 00:22:19.550 align:middle line:84% I mean, I do have a certain Spanish accent. 00:22:19.550 --> 00:22:22.220 align:middle line:84% When I go to Spain it doesn't sound Spanish enough 00:22:22.220 --> 00:22:23.670 align:middle line:90% apparently. 00:22:23.670 --> 00:22:25.700 align:middle line:90% Immediately where are you from? 00:22:25.700 --> 00:22:26.600 align:middle line:90% The Canary Islands. 00:22:26.600 --> 00:22:29.060 align:middle line:84% Which maybe you won't understand as a joke. 00:22:29.060 --> 00:22:32.530 align:middle line:84% But it's like the island off of Spain. 00:22:32.530 --> 00:22:35.330 align:middle line:90% So where are you from exactly? 00:22:35.330 --> 00:22:39.350 align:middle line:84% And I think that maybe I could inhabit the Spanish 00:22:39.350 --> 00:22:42.150 align:middle line:84% because I've been used to doing that my entire life. 00:22:42.150 --> 00:22:43.790 align:middle line:84% Which is to inhabit whichever Spanish 00:22:43.790 --> 00:22:46.730 align:middle line:84% is present and maybe vary in different variants of Spanish. 00:22:46.730 --> 00:22:48.770 align:middle line:84% And I've sort of cobbled together 00:22:48.770 --> 00:22:52.820 align:middle line:84% this kind of weird Spanish of different places. 00:22:52.820 --> 00:22:56.450 align:middle line:84% And in El Paso it's changing a lot with the Mexican influence 00:22:56.450 --> 00:22:59.280 align:middle line:84% and I have students from all over Latin America. 00:22:59.280 --> 00:23:03.350 align:middle line:84% So I mean, how do I remove myself from it? 00:23:03.350 --> 00:23:06.780 align:middle line:90% Well, I don't really feel-- 00:23:06.780 --> 00:23:09.350 align:middle line:84% I never end up writing like the people 00:23:09.350 --> 00:23:10.752 align:middle line:90% I translate believe it or not. 00:23:10.752 --> 00:23:11.710 align:middle line:90% It just doesn't happen. 00:23:11.710 --> 00:23:13.890 align:middle line:84% I've never written like Cecilia Vicuna. 00:23:13.890 --> 00:23:15.350 align:middle line:90% I've never written like Lila. 00:23:15.350 --> 00:23:16.470 align:middle line:90% It doesn't enter my work. 00:23:16.470 --> 00:23:16.970 align:middle line:90% Why? 00:23:16.970 --> 00:23:18.900 align:middle line:90% I'm not sure. 00:23:18.900 --> 00:23:21.410 align:middle line:84% But like I said to Gail at lunch today, 00:23:21.410 --> 00:23:25.400 align:middle line:84% is that I very much feel that I write 00:23:25.400 --> 00:23:27.950 align:middle line:84% best not when I open a notebook to write 00:23:27.950 --> 00:23:30.260 align:middle line:90% but when I enter another work. 00:23:30.260 --> 00:23:32.510 align:middle line:84% Because I feel like I'm gathering, 00:23:32.510 --> 00:23:36.200 align:middle line:84% I'm sort of cultivating something out of that work. 00:23:36.200 --> 00:23:40.130 align:middle line:84% And it's not so much that you're imitating, or you're stealing, 00:23:40.130 --> 00:23:41.600 align:middle line:84% or you're trying to take something. 00:23:41.600 --> 00:23:43.760 align:middle line:84% It's feeding you because it's making you think. 00:23:43.760 --> 00:23:46.640 align:middle line:84% It's kind of giving you this kind of energy or food 00:23:46.640 --> 00:23:48.900 align:middle line:90% for your own work. 00:23:48.900 --> 00:23:50.090 align:middle line:90% And it's encouraging you. 00:23:50.090 --> 00:23:52.160 align:middle line:84% I mean you see, wow, this is this amazing work 00:23:52.160 --> 00:23:53.210 align:middle line:90% and you want to go write. 00:23:53.210 --> 00:23:57.063 align:middle line:84% So I feel like when I translate I also write. 00:23:57.063 --> 00:23:58.355 align:middle line:90% I mean, it's a productive time. 00:23:58.355 --> 00:24:00.860 align:middle line:90% 00:24:00.860 --> 00:24:05.420 align:middle line:84% And I think about the revision process 00:24:05.420 --> 00:24:10.280 align:middle line:84% is one that takes longer than actually the first drafts. 00:24:10.280 --> 00:24:12.890 align:middle line:90% 00:24:12.890 --> 00:24:15.230 align:middle line:84% And this is probably true of my own writing, 00:24:15.230 --> 00:24:17.270 align:middle line:84% is you really want to get it to a certain place. 00:24:17.270 --> 00:24:19.160 align:middle line:84% No, I think actually the revision process 00:24:19.160 --> 00:24:24.350 align:middle line:84% takes longer with translation than with my own work. 00:24:24.350 --> 00:24:29.000 align:middle line:84% And I've had the situation where either Lila, or Cecilia Vicuna, 00:24:29.000 --> 00:24:32.270 align:middle line:84% or Lucas Vazquez who was another person who I translate 00:24:32.270 --> 00:24:35.550 align:middle line:84% or who I have translated say, Rosa it's perfect. 00:24:35.550 --> 00:24:36.530 align:middle line:90% Let's just send it off. 00:24:36.530 --> 00:24:37.910 align:middle line:90% And I say, it's not. 00:24:37.910 --> 00:24:41.480 align:middle line:84% I mean, we have to revise it again. 00:24:41.480 --> 00:24:42.718 align:middle line:90% And I insist on it. 00:24:42.718 --> 00:24:44.510 align:middle line:84% And it's not always something I want to do. 00:24:44.510 --> 00:24:45.552 align:middle line:90% I have other stuff to do. 00:24:45.552 --> 00:24:47.240 align:middle line:90% I teach classes. 00:24:47.240 --> 00:24:52.820 align:middle line:84% I have a partner who wants to see me every once in a while. 00:24:52.820 --> 00:24:56.670 align:middle line:84% I mean, I don't relish having to do it all the time. 00:24:56.670 --> 00:24:58.610 align:middle line:84% But for me it's a responsibility. 00:24:58.610 --> 00:25:00.670 align:middle line:84% And its a responsibility to Lila, 00:25:00.670 --> 00:25:02.590 align:middle line:84% I've committed to her so that's it. 00:25:02.590 --> 00:25:05.340 align:middle line:84% It's not like I'm only halfway committed to her. 00:25:05.340 --> 00:25:07.780 align:middle line:84% And also it's my work in the world. 00:25:07.780 --> 00:25:09.720 align:middle line:84% I mean, it's a reflection of what I do. 00:25:09.720 --> 00:25:13.600 align:middle line:84% So I try to go over it as many times as possible. 00:25:13.600 --> 00:25:17.940 align:middle line:84% And sometimes to the point where it's just like I'm nitpicking 00:25:17.940 --> 00:25:18.600 align:middle line:90% and I know it. 00:25:18.600 --> 00:25:20.768 align:middle line:84% I know that I'm just like, what do 00:25:20.768 --> 00:25:22.560 align:middle line:84% you think we should do with this word Lila? 00:25:22.560 --> 00:25:23.680 align:middle line:90% What do you think we should do? 00:25:23.680 --> 00:25:25.180 align:middle line:84% And you're just like enough already. 00:25:25.180 --> 00:25:28.800 align:middle line:84% I can tell you're just sort of like OK, let's just move on. 00:25:28.800 --> 00:25:34.260 align:middle line:84% But the revision process I just think 00:25:34.260 --> 00:25:39.540 align:middle line:84% is something that maybe is part of that generosity. 00:25:39.540 --> 00:25:41.280 align:middle line:84% But I don't see it as a generosity, 00:25:41.280 --> 00:25:43.340 align:middle line:84% I see is just part of a commitment. 00:25:43.340 --> 00:25:45.930 align:middle line:84% No, but I think it's the best part. 00:25:45.930 --> 00:25:49.740 align:middle line:84% No, because this is the moment that you 00:25:49.740 --> 00:25:53.280 align:middle line:84% are seeing your work in another light completely, 00:25:53.280 --> 00:25:55.860 align:middle line:84% you are seeing your work in another language. 00:25:55.860 --> 00:25:59.730 align:middle line:84% And here comes Rosa the translator 00:25:59.730 --> 00:26:04.630 align:middle line:84% with these weird questions about what is going on here? 00:26:04.630 --> 00:26:06.360 align:middle line:90% What are you trying to say here? 00:26:06.360 --> 00:26:08.520 align:middle line:90% That is a question. 00:26:08.520 --> 00:26:12.460 align:middle line:84% [LAUGHTER] What are you asking me? 00:26:12.460 --> 00:26:13.290 align:middle line:90% Please. 00:26:13.290 --> 00:26:17.520 align:middle line:84% And we spend maybe hours in the phone 00:26:17.520 --> 00:26:22.630 align:middle line:90% talking about specific details. 00:26:22.630 --> 00:26:26.100 align:middle line:84% And I think it's a lot of fun also. 00:26:26.100 --> 00:26:28.960 align:middle line:84% I don't know for you but for me I enjoy it a lot. 00:26:28.960 --> 00:26:29.460 align:middle line:90% It is. 00:26:29.460 --> 00:26:31.020 align:middle line:90% You also have to do research. 00:26:31.020 --> 00:26:34.060 align:middle line:84% For myself I had to do some research outside of it. 00:26:34.060 --> 00:26:38.550 align:middle line:84% I mean, there are acrostic poems in Guardians Of The Secret 00:26:38.550 --> 00:26:42.090 align:middle line:84% and another series called Carnivorous Flowers. 00:26:42.090 --> 00:26:46.896 align:middle line:84% And so for me I've had to find copies or images-- 00:26:46.896 --> 00:26:49.815 align:middle line:90% 00:26:49.815 --> 00:26:51.690 align:middle line:84% reproduction that's the word I'm looking for. 00:26:51.690 --> 00:26:53.790 align:middle line:90% Reproductions of the paintings. 00:26:53.790 --> 00:26:54.930 align:middle line:90% Now I'm the translator. 00:26:54.930 --> 00:26:56.880 align:middle line:90% Now you're the translator. 00:26:56.880 --> 00:26:58.590 align:middle line:90% Reproductions of the work. 00:26:58.590 --> 00:27:01.890 align:middle line:90% Either of sculpture or painting. 00:27:01.890 --> 00:27:08.430 align:middle line:84% And that doesn't necessarily help believe it or not. 00:27:08.430 --> 00:27:11.520 align:middle line:84% Because you're reproducing a poem not a painting. 00:27:11.520 --> 00:27:14.490 align:middle line:84% So you're trying to see what she sees. 00:27:14.490 --> 00:27:18.360 align:middle line:84% But having to do that research is also I think, 00:27:18.360 --> 00:27:24.360 align:middle line:84% really productive for me just to go outside of my own interests. 00:27:24.360 --> 00:27:27.020 align:middle line:90% I may not necessarily look up. 00:27:27.020 --> 00:27:28.770 align:middle line:84% I love Jackson Pollock so that's not true. 00:27:28.770 --> 00:27:31.380 align:middle line:84% But I may not look up some other painter 00:27:31.380 --> 00:27:33.720 align:middle line:90% that she's interested in. 00:27:33.720 --> 00:27:38.040 align:middle line:84% I was introduced to the work of Alejandro Twombly, Cy Twombly's 00:27:38.040 --> 00:27:38.580 align:middle line:90% son. 00:27:38.580 --> 00:27:41.730 align:middle line:90% And that was really exciting. 00:27:41.730 --> 00:27:43.905 align:middle line:84% I hadn't even known that he had a son. 00:27:43.905 --> 00:27:47.940 align:middle line:90% 00:27:47.940 --> 00:27:49.890 align:middle line:84% And also finding out about the anatomy 00:27:49.890 --> 00:27:52.487 align:middle line:84% of the eye, which you talk a lot about in Guardians 00:27:52.487 --> 00:27:53.070 align:middle line:90% Of The Secret. 00:27:53.070 --> 00:27:55.680 align:middle line:84% In order to figure out what the heck 00:27:55.680 --> 00:27:57.180 align:middle line:84% you were saying with all this fluid. 00:27:57.180 --> 00:27:58.890 align:middle line:84% There was fluid everywhere and it was 00:27:58.890 --> 00:28:00.077 align:middle line:90% connected to amniotic fluid. 00:28:00.077 --> 00:28:02.160 align:middle line:84% And I don't know what this woman is talking about. 00:28:02.160 --> 00:28:03.450 align:middle line:84% And once you learn about the eye, 00:28:03.450 --> 00:28:04.980 align:middle line:84% you realize that she really is just 00:28:04.980 --> 00:28:08.250 align:middle line:84% drawing from this information that's 00:28:08.250 --> 00:28:10.170 align:middle line:90% there, scientific information. 00:28:10.170 --> 00:28:11.650 align:middle line:90% She's making poetic. 00:28:11.650 --> 00:28:14.340 align:middle line:84% But I have a question for you Lila because we're 00:28:14.340 --> 00:28:16.050 align:middle line:90% talking about the paintings. 00:28:16.050 --> 00:28:22.560 align:middle line:84% And I know that you've been very influenced by visual art. 00:28:22.560 --> 00:28:24.960 align:middle line:84% And you've written a lot of acrostic poems. 00:28:24.960 --> 00:28:27.090 align:middle line:84% They've been published in art catalogs 00:28:27.090 --> 00:28:29.760 align:middle line:84% rather than in poetry collections necessarily 00:28:29.760 --> 00:28:31.590 align:middle line:90% anthologies. 00:28:31.590 --> 00:28:33.300 align:middle line:84% And that painters have asked you to write 00:28:33.300 --> 00:28:34.620 align:middle line:90% poems for their paintings. 00:28:34.620 --> 00:28:38.357 align:middle line:84% Which I think is incredibly sexy and exciting to be asked to. 00:28:38.357 --> 00:28:40.440 align:middle line:84% For a painter to be like, can you write some poems 00:28:40.440 --> 00:28:41.148 align:middle line:90% for my paintings? 00:28:41.148 --> 00:28:44.940 align:middle line:90% That's really so flattering. 00:28:44.940 --> 00:28:48.390 align:middle line:84% And so I wanted to do you see it as a kind of translation 00:28:48.390 --> 00:28:52.770 align:middle line:84% yourself this relationship with art that 00:28:52.770 --> 00:28:57.840 align:middle line:90% then is turned into a poem? 00:28:57.840 --> 00:29:02.010 align:middle line:84% I don't see it as a translation because when 00:29:02.010 --> 00:29:05.370 align:middle line:84% I'm looking at a work of art, it's more 00:29:05.370 --> 00:29:10.320 align:middle line:90% like I feel like a connection. 00:29:10.320 --> 00:29:11.820 align:middle line:90% Sometimes not all the times. 00:29:11.820 --> 00:29:15.030 align:middle line:84% But I feel a connection with the work of art. 00:29:15.030 --> 00:29:18.000 align:middle line:84% That work of art is telling me something. 00:29:18.000 --> 00:29:22.620 align:middle line:90% That I feel I should write. 00:29:22.620 --> 00:29:29.970 align:middle line:84% And it's more like a way of understanding something 00:29:29.970 --> 00:29:31.410 align:middle line:90% always about myself. 00:29:31.410 --> 00:29:38.460 align:middle line:84% I think because in the end a work of art 00:29:38.460 --> 00:29:40.770 align:middle line:84% is positing some kind of question 00:29:40.770 --> 00:29:44.040 align:middle line:84% that it's moving you in a certain way. 00:29:44.040 --> 00:29:48.580 align:middle line:84% That I want to know what is going on there. 00:29:48.580 --> 00:29:52.510 align:middle line:84% What is that movement that is going on in that moment? 00:29:52.510 --> 00:29:57.210 align:middle line:84% And so I cannot see it as a translation because I don't see 00:29:57.210 --> 00:30:05.850 align:middle line:84% it that I'm trying to translate what is being shown in an image 00:30:05.850 --> 00:30:08.460 align:middle line:90% or in colors for example. 00:30:08.460 --> 00:30:14.370 align:middle line:84% But in a way I have to agree with you. 00:30:14.370 --> 00:30:20.430 align:middle line:84% In the sense that with the Jackson Pollock painting, 00:30:20.430 --> 00:30:25.170 align:middle line:84% Guardians Of The Secret, there was a big show in Moma. 00:30:25.170 --> 00:30:27.330 align:middle line:84% I am very fortunate that I live in New York, 00:30:27.330 --> 00:30:28.950 align:middle line:90% that I could develop this work. 00:30:28.950 --> 00:30:32.170 align:middle line:84% Because you have amazing shows there all the time. 00:30:32.170 --> 00:30:35.490 align:middle line:84% And there was this retrospective of Jackson Pollock 00:30:35.490 --> 00:30:36.990 align:middle line:90% in the '90s I think. 00:30:36.990 --> 00:30:39.240 align:middle line:84% And I saw this work by Jackson Pollock. 00:30:39.240 --> 00:30:44.640 align:middle line:90% 00:30:44.640 --> 00:30:48.150 align:middle line:84% In the moment I saw it, it was like an image of a dream 00:30:48.150 --> 00:30:52.230 align:middle line:84% that I had when I was 20 years old or something. 00:30:52.230 --> 00:30:55.320 align:middle line:84% There was a time that I wrote all my dreams 00:30:55.320 --> 00:30:58.110 align:middle line:84% and I was reading Jung when I was in my 20s. 00:30:58.110 --> 00:31:01.310 align:middle line:84% So I was writing all my dreams every day. 00:31:01.310 --> 00:31:05.320 align:middle line:84% And when I saw the Jackson Pollock like 20 years later, 00:31:05.320 --> 00:31:07.760 align:middle line:84% the painting I said, my God this is my dream. 00:31:07.760 --> 00:31:10.050 align:middle line:84% This is my dream, exactly the dream. 00:31:10.050 --> 00:31:13.360 align:middle line:84% And this is what I wrote in the book, in the poem. 00:31:13.360 --> 00:31:15.330 align:middle line:90% So that was like the opposite. 00:31:15.330 --> 00:31:20.880 align:middle line:84% Like the painting was a translation of my dream. 00:31:20.880 --> 00:31:23.130 align:middle line:84% Of course, this was not true at all. 00:31:23.130 --> 00:31:25.500 align:middle line:84% Because then I went back to the dreams and I said, 00:31:25.500 --> 00:31:26.790 align:middle line:90% I have to look at that dream. 00:31:26.790 --> 00:31:30.060 align:middle line:84% And there were two dreams in that painting. 00:31:30.060 --> 00:31:32.820 align:middle line:84% But in my memory it was only one. 00:31:32.820 --> 00:31:34.800 align:middle line:84% So it was very interesting for me 00:31:34.800 --> 00:31:37.680 align:middle line:84% how memory works in relation to dreams. 00:31:37.680 --> 00:31:41.760 align:middle line:84% Because you mix everything in a way. 00:31:41.760 --> 00:31:45.240 align:middle line:84% I was telling Rosa now that she's breast feeding, 00:31:45.240 --> 00:31:47.430 align:middle line:84% this has nothing to do with translation. 00:31:47.430 --> 00:31:48.558 align:middle line:90% Sure it does. 00:31:48.558 --> 00:31:50.430 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:31:50.430 --> 00:31:53.700 align:middle line:84% When I had my son and I was breast breastfeeding him 00:31:53.700 --> 00:31:55.980 align:middle line:84% it was like they pushed the bottom like this 00:31:55.980 --> 00:31:57.960 align:middle line:84% and I was remembering all my dream. 00:31:57.960 --> 00:32:00.660 align:middle line:84% Many dreams came like this [BLUBBERING].. 00:32:00.660 --> 00:32:04.680 align:middle line:84% This is also something that I wrote in Guardians 00:32:04.680 --> 00:32:05.520 align:middle line:90% Of The Secret. 00:32:05.520 --> 00:32:09.450 align:middle line:84% Because it's a book about vision and about inner visions 00:32:09.450 --> 00:32:18.120 align:middle line:84% and different ways of seeing with glasses, without glasses, 00:32:18.120 --> 00:32:24.920 align:middle line:84% partially blinded, and many different perspectives. 00:32:24.920 --> 00:32:29.250 align:middle line:84% Of the sense of seeing more than the abstract seeing 00:32:29.250 --> 00:32:32.920 align:middle line:84% or the visionary seeing, which is also in there. 00:32:32.920 --> 00:32:38.640 align:middle line:84% But I mean, going back to your question. 00:32:38.640 --> 00:32:45.990 align:middle line:84% When I see a work of art, you cannot translate images 00:32:45.990 --> 00:32:47.850 align:middle line:90% into words. 00:32:47.850 --> 00:32:51.480 align:middle line:84% I think it's a different process. 00:32:51.480 --> 00:32:56.730 align:middle line:84% But you can translate words into words. 00:32:56.730 --> 00:33:00.420 align:middle line:84% What you're translating is words into words, I think. 00:33:00.420 --> 00:33:02.460 align:middle line:90% Not images into words. 00:33:02.460 --> 00:33:10.560 align:middle line:84% So it goes through another space or area. 00:33:10.560 --> 00:33:15.840 align:middle line:84% But in relation to the works of art, 00:33:15.840 --> 00:33:20.430 align:middle line:84% it really helps you to look at the paintings or the images 00:33:20.430 --> 00:33:23.790 align:middle line:84% when you're translating the work. 00:33:23.790 --> 00:33:27.690 align:middle line:84% Or you don't feel like any connection whatsoever 00:33:27.690 --> 00:33:31.210 align:middle line:90% or you say, that is horrible. 00:33:31.210 --> 00:33:33.640 align:middle line:90% What is it writing about? 00:33:33.640 --> 00:33:34.140 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:33:34.140 --> 00:33:35.700 align:middle line:84% I mean, I think that's what I said 00:33:35.700 --> 00:33:38.370 align:middle line:84% is, I don't know if it helps me necessarily 00:33:38.370 --> 00:33:40.160 align:middle line:90% to see those paintings. 00:33:40.160 --> 00:33:47.400 align:middle line:84% But I don't know if it's the key to translating. 00:33:47.400 --> 00:33:49.920 align:middle line:84% Because really I have to translate what you're seeing, 00:33:49.920 --> 00:33:52.290 align:middle line:84% which isn't going to be the same thing that I'm seeing. 00:33:52.290 --> 00:33:54.990 align:middle line:84% But I find it a responsibility to say 00:33:54.990 --> 00:33:57.870 align:middle line:84% that if I'm translating a poem that's called Guardians 00:33:57.870 --> 00:34:03.420 align:middle line:84% Of The Secret by Jackson Pollock and I don't try to find 00:34:03.420 --> 00:34:04.680 align:middle line:90% the painting, to look at it. 00:34:04.680 --> 00:34:06.660 align:middle line:90% I mean, it's responsibility. 00:34:06.660 --> 00:34:12.540 align:middle line:84% I mean, if you're writing about poems set in a certain country 00:34:12.540 --> 00:34:14.040 align:middle line:84% and you can't place it on the map. 00:34:14.040 --> 00:34:15.623 align:middle line:84% I mean, I don't know if you need to go 00:34:15.623 --> 00:34:17.730 align:middle line:84% to that country necessarily to translate them. 00:34:17.730 --> 00:34:19.560 align:middle line:84% Even though I've spoken to translators 00:34:19.560 --> 00:34:22.873 align:middle line:84% who for example, have gone to a place where a poet lived when 00:34:22.873 --> 00:34:24.040 align:middle line:90% they were writing the poems. 00:34:24.040 --> 00:34:25.957 align:middle line:84% They can see the balcony they were looking out 00:34:25.957 --> 00:34:28.020 align:middle line:90% of when the poems were written. 00:34:28.020 --> 00:34:32.310 align:middle line:84% I mean, that perspective can help. 00:34:32.310 --> 00:34:38.040 align:middle line:84% But I feel like I need to know what to some extent. 00:34:38.040 --> 00:34:43.560 align:middle line:84% And at least have that as a reference point. 00:34:43.560 --> 00:34:46.980 align:middle line:84% Just like looking up a book a word in a dictionary. 00:34:46.980 --> 00:34:49.080 align:middle line:90% Yeah exactly, OK. 00:34:49.080 --> 00:34:51.330 align:middle line:84% But I want it because we're talking about the visual. 00:34:51.330 --> 00:34:53.670 align:middle line:84% I mean, I don't know how many of you have 00:34:53.670 --> 00:34:55.469 align:middle line:90% the Guardians Of The Secret. 00:34:55.469 --> 00:34:57.510 align:middle line:84% But we're speaking about not being 00:34:57.510 --> 00:35:01.440 align:middle line:84% able to translate late from images to words 00:35:01.440 --> 00:35:03.600 align:middle line:84% and only translating words to words. 00:35:03.600 --> 00:35:06.330 align:middle line:84% But there's a section here in which 00:35:06.330 --> 00:35:10.800 align:middle line:84% I guess Lila decided that whatever was sort of happening 00:35:10.800 --> 00:35:13.560 align:middle line:84% in her head and in her body couldn't 00:35:13.560 --> 00:35:14.670 align:middle line:90% be translated to words. 00:35:14.670 --> 00:35:17.250 align:middle line:90% And there are images. 00:35:17.250 --> 00:35:18.820 align:middle line:84% And this is the section of the book. 00:35:18.820 --> 00:35:20.700 align:middle line:84% It isn't supplementary so to say. 00:35:20.700 --> 00:35:25.110 align:middle line:84% It's not illustrations but it's section five I think, 00:35:25.110 --> 00:35:27.540 align:middle line:90% yeah it's Section 5 of the book. 00:35:27.540 --> 00:35:30.660 align:middle line:84% So it should be read as part of it, 00:35:30.660 --> 00:35:34.500 align:middle line:84% as one section that then follows another. 00:35:34.500 --> 00:35:37.080 align:middle line:84% And some of the images, it does reference 00:35:37.080 --> 00:35:39.270 align:middle line:84% some of the things that are said in the book. 00:35:39.270 --> 00:35:42.030 align:middle line:84% I mean, some of the I and I think 00:35:42.030 --> 00:35:47.220 align:middle line:84% there's the reference to the amniotic fluid. 00:35:47.220 --> 00:35:52.290 align:middle line:84% Yeah here says, líquido amniótico. 00:35:52.290 --> 00:35:56.563 align:middle line:84% And I thought a lot about this book while I was pregnant. 00:35:56.563 --> 00:35:58.230 align:middle line:84% Not necessarily when I was giving birth, 00:35:58.230 --> 00:35:59.409 align:middle line:90% when I was pregnant. 00:35:59.409 --> 00:36:01.867 align:middle line:84% I didn't think of your work while I was giving birth, Lila. 00:36:01.867 --> 00:36:03.150 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:36:03.150 --> 00:36:04.140 align:middle line:90% I don't think so. 00:36:04.140 --> 00:36:06.090 align:middle line:84% While I was pregnant and also breastfeeding I 00:36:06.090 --> 00:36:07.340 align:middle line:90% thought a lot about this book. 00:36:07.340 --> 00:36:11.760 align:middle line:84% Because you go so deeply into sort of the physical processes 00:36:11.760 --> 00:36:16.250 align:middle line:90% of that experience. 00:36:16.250 --> 00:36:19.140 align:middle line:84% And I thought would I have translated it differently 00:36:19.140 --> 00:36:20.430 align:middle line:90% if I had had that experience? 00:36:20.430 --> 00:36:20.972 align:middle line:90% I don't know. 00:36:20.972 --> 00:36:23.520 align:middle line:84% Just looking up the Pollock painting 00:36:23.520 --> 00:36:27.540 align:middle line:84% or going to Brazil to see that balcony that someone looked out 00:36:27.540 --> 00:36:29.970 align:middle line:90% of, I don't know. 00:36:29.970 --> 00:36:33.980 align:middle line:84% So I don't know, maybe leave questions. 00:36:33.980 --> 00:36:37.950 align:middle line:84% Only one thing I want to add to contradict myself, of course. 00:36:37.950 --> 00:36:44.160 align:middle line:84% It's like I say that the paintings do not 00:36:44.160 --> 00:36:45.360 align:middle line:90% translate into words. 00:36:45.360 --> 00:36:47.730 align:middle line:90% But yes, I'm not contradicting. 00:36:47.730 --> 00:36:54.990 align:middle line:84% It could translate into shapes because actually this book I 00:36:54.990 --> 00:36:58.260 align:middle line:84% kind of thought about the shape, that is something 00:36:58.260 --> 00:36:59.790 align:middle line:90% that we are not talking about. 00:36:59.790 --> 00:37:05.190 align:middle line:84% I thought about the shape of this book or the clue 00:37:05.190 --> 00:37:08.880 align:middle line:84% of the shape of this book was given to me by a conversation 00:37:08.880 --> 00:37:13.980 align:middle line:84% that I had with a Spanish poet, Concha Garcia. 00:37:13.980 --> 00:37:19.030 align:middle line:84% We were looking at Mark Rothko paintings in Washington. 00:37:19.030 --> 00:37:24.870 align:middle line:84% And so I asked her, how do you write a poem like a Rothko 00:37:24.870 --> 00:37:25.860 align:middle line:90% painting? 00:37:25.860 --> 00:37:30.000 align:middle line:84% And she told me, those are tones. 00:37:30.000 --> 00:37:32.340 align:middle line:90% And say, tones. 00:37:32.340 --> 00:37:35.430 align:middle line:84% So then I decided like to mix tones. 00:37:35.430 --> 00:37:39.780 align:middle line:84% Like to put together different tones in my writing. 00:37:39.780 --> 00:37:48.880 align:middle line:84% And also to shape the book with a justified margin. 00:37:48.880 --> 00:37:52.800 align:middle line:84% And I'm looking for a good example with a longer poem. 00:37:52.800 --> 00:38:01.260 align:middle line:84% But I don't know, different square, cómo se dice, 00:38:01.260 --> 00:38:04.170 align:middle line:84% rectangles of text with different tones. 00:38:04.170 --> 00:38:10.260 align:middle line:84% And so the shape of a painting gave me the glue 00:38:10.260 --> 00:38:15.180 align:middle line:90% for the shape of the book. 00:38:15.180 --> 00:38:17.520 align:middle line:90% And this was very good. 00:38:17.520 --> 00:38:20.370 align:middle line:84% Yeah, and Malvas has a shape to that I think. 00:38:20.370 --> 00:38:22.350 align:middle line:84% I mean, sometimes I think people just 00:38:22.350 --> 00:38:27.840 align:middle line:84% consider it sort of centered on the page. 00:38:27.840 --> 00:38:29.850 align:middle line:90% But it's really isn't. 00:38:29.850 --> 00:38:32.220 align:middle line:84% It's not about it being centered on the page. 00:38:32.220 --> 00:38:35.490 align:middle line:84% And it's not that it has necessarily particular line 00:38:35.490 --> 00:38:37.350 align:middle line:90% breaks. 00:38:37.350 --> 00:38:41.310 align:middle line:84% But at least in the section that I translated, 00:38:41.310 --> 00:38:47.190 align:middle line:84% the shape of these sections mimics 00:38:47.190 --> 00:38:54.420 align:middle line:84% the trace of the body in the water, the wake. 00:38:54.420 --> 00:38:57.060 align:middle line:84% So you see sort of as the body goes through, 00:38:57.060 --> 00:38:59.310 align:middle line:90% what's left of those traces. 00:38:59.310 --> 00:39:02.970 align:middle line:84% So the form relates to the content very closely. 00:39:02.970 --> 00:39:07.170 align:middle line:90% Yeah that is what I usually do. 00:39:07.170 --> 00:39:07.830 align:middle line:90% OK. 00:39:07.830 --> 00:39:13.785 align:middle line:84% So I guess we wanted to open up the discussion with you. 00:39:13.785 --> 00:39:19.570 align:middle line:90% 00:39:19.570 --> 00:39:21.250 align:middle line:90% We have to turn off our-- 00:39:21.250 --> 00:39:28.135 align:middle line:90% 00:39:28.135 --> 00:39:29.510 align:middle line:84% Well, if you guys don't mind, I'd 00:39:29.510 --> 00:39:31.770 align:middle line:90% like to start with a question. 00:39:31.770 --> 00:39:34.670 align:middle line:84% Which is I really would like to hear a little bit about what 00:39:34.670 --> 00:39:37.580 align:middle line:84% it was like for you Lila to write in English 00:39:37.580 --> 00:39:41.540 align:middle line:84% and for you Rosa to translate into Spanish the poem 00:39:41.540 --> 00:39:42.980 align:middle line:84% that you read together last night. 00:39:42.980 --> 00:39:44.270 align:middle line:90% I think that's what you said. 00:39:44.270 --> 00:39:46.340 align:middle line:84% That it was written first in English 00:39:46.340 --> 00:39:47.960 align:middle line:90% then translated into Spanish. 00:39:47.960 --> 00:39:48.950 align:middle line:90% Do I have that right? 00:39:48.950 --> 00:39:53.010 align:middle line:90% 00:39:53.010 --> 00:39:54.290 align:middle line:90% Yes. 00:39:54.290 --> 00:39:57.140 align:middle line:84% Actually this is the first time I wrote-- 00:39:57.140 --> 00:39:59.210 align:middle line:84% It's not the first time that I write in English. 00:39:59.210 --> 00:40:01.400 align:middle line:84% But that I write a poem in English 00:40:01.400 --> 00:40:04.170 align:middle line:84% and I did a translation into Spanish. 00:40:04.170 --> 00:40:09.230 align:middle line:84% I did the whole thing and it was-- 00:40:09.230 --> 00:40:13.040 align:middle line:84% I don't know it was the first time that I did that 00:40:13.040 --> 00:40:16.100 align:middle line:84% and it was a good experience for me. 00:40:16.100 --> 00:40:20.000 align:middle line:84% Because it's completely different from getting 00:40:20.000 --> 00:40:22.340 align:middle line:84% the translation from another person. 00:40:22.340 --> 00:40:26.240 align:middle line:84% In the sense that you feel that you have more freedom 00:40:26.240 --> 00:40:27.630 align:middle line:90% to do whatever you want. 00:40:27.630 --> 00:40:29.810 align:middle line:84% You don't have to stick to the text. 00:40:29.810 --> 00:40:32.240 align:middle line:84% Which I think in the translations 00:40:32.240 --> 00:40:36.440 align:middle line:84% and in the process of translation, 00:40:36.440 --> 00:40:43.910 align:middle line:84% I'm not so rigid in terms of the content or of the wording more 00:40:43.910 --> 00:40:46.250 align:middle line:90% on the rhythm. 00:40:46.250 --> 00:40:50.540 align:middle line:84% But in this case, it was like, OK well, this 00:40:50.540 --> 00:40:52.260 align:middle line:90% is not exactly the same. 00:40:52.260 --> 00:40:52.880 align:middle line:90% I don't care. 00:40:52.880 --> 00:40:56.240 align:middle line:90% 00:40:56.240 --> 00:40:59.120 align:middle line:84% I like how it sounds in English and I like 00:40:59.120 --> 00:41:02.480 align:middle line:90% it to sound in Spanish well. 00:41:02.480 --> 00:41:05.875 align:middle line:84% But if it doesn't mean to do it in the same way, I don't care. 00:41:05.875 --> 00:41:10.760 align:middle line:90% 00:41:10.760 --> 00:41:15.560 align:middle line:84% It has to have the same sensation 00:41:15.560 --> 00:41:20.600 align:middle line:84% that it came from more than the exact translation. 00:41:20.600 --> 00:41:22.220 align:middle line:84% But there are many parts that they 00:41:22.220 --> 00:41:25.310 align:middle line:84% are very close also because there are many words 00:41:25.310 --> 00:41:28.080 align:middle line:84% that you say in the same world, like the solution. 00:41:28.080 --> 00:41:32.630 align:middle line:84% The solution is exactly the same. 00:41:32.630 --> 00:41:37.380 align:middle line:84% But what we did for the first time was to read it together. 00:41:37.380 --> 00:41:39.920 align:middle line:90% Which was quite an experience. 00:41:39.920 --> 00:41:46.760 align:middle line:84% Not to deal with this kind of superimposition. 00:41:46.760 --> 00:41:51.320 align:middle line:84% And I think that when I wrote the poem 00:41:51.320 --> 00:41:58.230 align:middle line:84% the idea of the solution, I don't even remember 00:41:58.230 --> 00:41:59.610 align:middle line:90% what is the poem about. 00:41:59.610 --> 00:42:00.960 align:middle line:90% The solution. 00:42:00.960 --> 00:42:01.460 align:middle line:90% Dissonance. 00:42:01.460 --> 00:42:02.460 align:middle line:90% Dissonance, that's why. 00:42:02.460 --> 00:42:04.110 align:middle line:90% I knew that I was right. 00:42:04.110 --> 00:42:05.010 align:middle line:90% Dissonance. 00:42:05.010 --> 00:42:08.100 align:middle line:84% I think that it was the first time 00:42:08.100 --> 00:42:19.200 align:middle line:84% that I could get this sense of what the dissonance between. 00:42:19.200 --> 00:42:21.030 align:middle line:84% I was not thinking about the dissonance 00:42:21.030 --> 00:42:23.740 align:middle line:90% between the languages at all. 00:42:23.740 --> 00:42:27.540 align:middle line:84% I was thinking about what is dissonance? 00:42:27.540 --> 00:42:29.730 align:middle line:84% What is the meaning of dissonance? 00:42:29.730 --> 00:42:36.300 align:middle line:84% Because we were supposed to present a collaborative 00:42:36.300 --> 00:42:42.690 align:middle line:84% work for an event that Eileen Miles organized 00:42:42.690 --> 00:42:45.070 align:middle line:90% in June or in July in New York. 00:42:45.070 --> 00:42:47.400 align:middle line:84% Which was going to be everything, 00:42:47.400 --> 00:42:49.200 align:middle line:90% was going to be in silence. 00:42:49.200 --> 00:42:54.810 align:middle line:84% So everybody was going to read poems in a group. 00:42:54.810 --> 00:42:58.080 align:middle line:84% We had to present a project, the collaborative project. 00:42:58.080 --> 00:43:00.030 align:middle line:84% And all was going to be in silence. 00:43:00.030 --> 00:43:02.700 align:middle line:84% So it was a very weird situation. 00:43:02.700 --> 00:43:11.730 align:middle line:84% So I was thinking about silence but the dissonance in silence. 00:43:11.730 --> 00:43:15.090 align:middle line:84% The idea of dissonance and also the opposite 00:43:15.090 --> 00:43:19.200 align:middle line:84% of Mauve Sea-Orchids-- it's more dissonance 00:43:19.200 --> 00:43:24.990 align:middle line:90% and the sense of not touching. 00:43:24.990 --> 00:43:29.130 align:middle line:84% Like mom is all related to connection 00:43:29.130 --> 00:43:33.990 align:middle line:84% but this poem dissonance is all related to disconnection. 00:43:33.990 --> 00:43:40.110 align:middle line:84% And lack of the sense of touch mostly. 00:43:40.110 --> 00:43:51.990 align:middle line:84% So the idea of dissonance was very well expressed by the two 00:43:51.990 --> 00:43:54.370 align:middle line:90% languages being together. 00:43:54.370 --> 00:43:58.650 align:middle line:84% So now I would like to see how did you 00:43:58.650 --> 00:44:04.540 align:middle line:90% feel about reading it together. 00:44:04.540 --> 00:44:06.900 align:middle line:84% First of all, tell about the experience 00:44:06.900 --> 00:44:10.260 align:middle line:84% about you reading in Spanish and me reading in English, which it 00:44:10.260 --> 00:44:11.900 align:middle line:90% didn't work at the beginning. 00:44:11.900 --> 00:44:14.910 align:middle line:90% 00:44:14.910 --> 00:44:16.280 align:middle line:90% It happened very quickly. 00:44:16.280 --> 00:44:19.770 align:middle line:84% I mean, Lila and I were talking about this before. 00:44:19.770 --> 00:44:23.220 align:middle line:84% It's just like I had a crying baby in the hotel. 00:44:23.220 --> 00:44:25.380 align:middle line:84% We had to come up with something quick. 00:44:25.380 --> 00:44:28.800 align:middle line:84% And we came to this decision to do it like this. 00:44:28.800 --> 00:44:30.930 align:middle line:84% Because Lila read it first and she 00:44:30.930 --> 00:44:32.820 align:middle line:84% was going to read the English first and then 00:44:32.820 --> 00:44:34.860 align:middle line:90% the Spanish herself. 00:44:34.860 --> 00:44:38.100 align:middle line:84% And I just thought, I don't know if I like it that way. 00:44:38.100 --> 00:44:40.700 align:middle line:84% Because when you see it on the page. 00:44:40.700 --> 00:44:41.880 align:middle line:90% Can we show it? 00:44:41.880 --> 00:44:43.120 align:middle line:90% I didn't bring it. 00:44:43.120 --> 00:44:45.720 align:middle line:84% I don't know if I have a copy of it. 00:44:45.720 --> 00:44:49.950 align:middle line:84% On the page, it's broken up into fragments. 00:44:49.950 --> 00:44:53.370 align:middle line:84% And the Spanish and the English go right after each other 00:44:53.370 --> 00:44:54.228 align:middle line:90% in these fragments. 00:44:54.228 --> 00:44:55.770 align:middle line:84% And they're scattered around the page 00:44:55.770 --> 00:44:58.320 align:middle line:84% sort of like a constellation of words. 00:44:58.320 --> 00:45:01.080 align:middle line:84% And when she read it in this linear fashion, 00:45:01.080 --> 00:45:03.300 align:middle line:84% I thought that's really not capturing it. 00:45:03.300 --> 00:45:06.390 align:middle line:84% And because Lila is always about connecting the form 00:45:06.390 --> 00:45:09.990 align:middle line:84% to the content or having the form say something in addition 00:45:09.990 --> 00:45:11.400 align:middle line:90% to the content. 00:45:11.400 --> 00:45:15.750 align:middle line:84% I thought it just sort of dissolved, 00:45:15.750 --> 00:45:18.090 align:middle line:90% that form in the performance. 00:45:18.090 --> 00:45:20.760 align:middle line:90% 00:45:20.760 --> 00:45:22.350 align:middle line:84% And we thought, well, wouldn't it 00:45:22.350 --> 00:45:25.410 align:middle line:84% be interesting since I always read the English for me 00:45:25.410 --> 00:45:26.940 align:middle line:90% to read the Spanish? 00:45:26.940 --> 00:45:30.840 align:middle line:84% And it was hard for her to inhabit English 00:45:30.840 --> 00:45:33.210 align:middle line:84% and it was hard for me to inhabit the Spanish. 00:45:33.210 --> 00:45:35.190 align:middle line:84% And we tried it a couple of times 00:45:35.190 --> 00:45:36.880 align:middle line:90% and we kept tripping over it. 00:45:36.880 --> 00:45:38.580 align:middle line:90% It was horrible. 00:45:38.580 --> 00:45:41.190 align:middle line:84% The moment we took on our assigned roles 00:45:41.190 --> 00:45:46.230 align:middle line:84% of Spanish, the Spanish Argentinean poet 00:45:46.230 --> 00:45:50.310 align:middle line:84% in me the English girl from New Jersey. 00:45:50.310 --> 00:45:52.710 align:middle line:84% Not English girl from New Jersey girls, speaks English. 00:45:52.710 --> 00:45:58.350 align:middle line:84% Then suddenly we did it once and it really sounded really good 00:45:58.350 --> 00:46:01.350 align:middle line:84% and the second time it sounded amazing I said, OK I got to go. 00:46:01.350 --> 00:46:03.310 align:middle line:84% And then we did it sort of the third, 00:46:03.310 --> 00:46:04.950 align:middle line:84% maybe even the fourth time we read it-- 00:46:04.950 --> 00:46:05.700 align:middle line:90% Was here. 00:46:05.700 --> 00:46:07.740 align:middle line:90% --was tonight, was last night. 00:46:07.740 --> 00:46:11.530 align:middle line:84% So I wasn't nervous about it, though. 00:46:11.530 --> 00:46:15.870 align:middle line:84% I mean, because I just it came together so beautifully. 00:46:15.870 --> 00:46:20.100 align:middle line:84% It was exactly like you said the performance reflected 00:46:20.100 --> 00:46:21.030 align:middle line:90% the content. 00:46:21.030 --> 00:46:25.170 align:middle line:84% And the form itself of what you were trying to express. 00:46:25.170 --> 00:46:30.810 align:middle line:84% And I wonder and my question for you, who was here last night? 00:46:30.810 --> 00:46:36.030 align:middle line:84% Hearing it I mean, what did you hear and how did you hear it? 00:46:36.030 --> 00:46:37.200 align:middle line:90% That's curious for me. 00:46:37.200 --> 00:46:46.110 align:middle line:90% 00:46:46.110 --> 00:46:49.180 align:middle line:84% Well, first I'll just say I thought it was beautiful. 00:46:49.180 --> 00:46:55.100 align:middle line:84% And I do only speak English and so 00:46:55.100 --> 00:46:58.550 align:middle line:84% obviously, my attention was going more to the English 00:46:58.550 --> 00:46:59.755 align:middle line:90% that I followed throughout. 00:46:59.755 --> 00:47:01.130 align:middle line:84% But then there were these moments 00:47:01.130 --> 00:47:05.180 align:middle line:84% where the words in Spanish and the words in English 00:47:05.180 --> 00:47:07.490 align:middle line:90% are so similar occasionally. 00:47:07.490 --> 00:47:12.710 align:middle line:84% That there is this kind of synthesis of sound and meaning. 00:47:12.710 --> 00:47:17.130 align:middle line:84% And so there were times when I did 00:47:17.130 --> 00:47:19.260 align:middle line:84% feel like I could enter both languages. 00:47:19.260 --> 00:47:22.650 align:middle line:84% But most of the time I was with just the English. 00:47:22.650 --> 00:47:29.040 align:middle line:84% But it had this kind of haunting echo, musical echo, 00:47:29.040 --> 00:47:31.470 align:middle line:84% to have the two languages happening at once. 00:47:31.470 --> 00:47:41.520 align:middle line:90% 00:47:41.520 --> 00:47:45.000 align:middle line:84% This was in the text is the English, which 00:47:45.000 --> 00:47:46.715 align:middle line:90% was really original language. 00:47:46.715 --> 00:47:49.940 align:middle line:90% 00:47:49.940 --> 00:47:52.965 align:middle line:84% The English is one font. ¿Cómo se dice un tamaño majarande, 00:47:52.965 --> 00:47:53.465 align:middle line:90% un tamaño--? 00:47:53.465 --> 00:47:56.420 align:middle line:90% 00:47:56.420 --> 00:48:00.500 align:middle line:84% It's a larger size font and the Spanish is in italics. 00:48:00.500 --> 00:48:04.340 align:middle line:90% And one size less. 00:48:04.340 --> 00:48:07.400 align:middle line:84% So as you said, it's like an echo 00:48:07.400 --> 00:48:09.500 align:middle line:90% of what I wanted it to sound. 00:48:09.500 --> 00:48:11.610 align:middle line:90% Is like a little bit removal. 00:48:11.610 --> 00:48:14.270 align:middle line:84% So it's not the same margin, the Spanish 00:48:14.270 --> 00:48:18.380 align:middle line:84% is a little bit moved to the side. 00:48:18.380 --> 00:48:30.170 align:middle line:84% So the idea was like to have these two things together. 00:48:30.170 --> 00:48:33.620 align:middle line:84% But a little bit removed from each other. 00:48:33.620 --> 00:48:34.467 align:middle line:90% Como corrido. 00:48:34.467 --> 00:48:35.300 align:middle line:90% How do you say that? 00:48:35.300 --> 00:48:37.030 align:middle line:90% Corrido? 00:48:37.030 --> 00:48:37.820 align:middle line:90% Removed. 00:48:37.820 --> 00:48:40.460 align:middle line:90% Removed, a little bit removed. 00:48:40.460 --> 00:48:46.700 align:middle line:84% And this is what really happened when we were reading it. 00:48:46.700 --> 00:48:49.460 align:middle line:84% But I was thinking I mean, maybe in the future we could 00:48:49.460 --> 00:48:54.800 align:middle line:84% experiment too with maybe a kind of lack of mastery, 00:48:54.800 --> 00:48:55.880 align:middle line:90% which is also dissonance. 00:48:55.880 --> 00:48:59.870 align:middle line:84% The discomfort of maybe me reading in Spanish 00:48:59.870 --> 00:49:01.700 align:middle line:90% and you reading in English. 00:49:01.700 --> 00:49:04.520 align:middle line:84% And I remember that was the first time I had ever read it 00:49:04.520 --> 00:49:07.880 align:middle line:84% So I was also kind of tripping over parts because I had never 00:49:07.880 --> 00:49:09.080 align:middle line:90% seen it before. 00:49:09.080 --> 00:49:10.940 align:middle line:84% And I thought that was interesting. 00:49:10.940 --> 00:49:12.920 align:middle line:84% I think we were uncomfortable with it 00:49:12.920 --> 00:49:17.880 align:middle line:84% not being a perfect performance when we did it the first time. 00:49:17.880 --> 00:49:20.150 align:middle line:84% But there's something about that discomfort 00:49:20.150 --> 00:49:21.590 align:middle line:90% that I think is interesting. 00:49:21.590 --> 00:49:24.260 align:middle line:84% Because that's what language is and what 00:49:24.260 --> 00:49:26.870 align:middle line:84% trying to understand people across languages 00:49:26.870 --> 00:49:31.490 align:middle line:84% is not really always being able to articulate perfectly. 00:49:31.490 --> 00:49:32.510 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:49:32.510 --> 00:49:35.210 align:middle line:84% That was interesting when we did it. 00:49:35.210 --> 00:49:37.670 align:middle line:84% Because I wanted to do it in English because I 00:49:37.670 --> 00:49:39.560 align:middle line:90% wrote it originally in English. 00:49:39.560 --> 00:49:43.370 align:middle line:84% So I wanted the original language to be my language. 00:49:43.370 --> 00:49:46.010 align:middle line:90% But it was like I don't know. 00:49:46.010 --> 00:49:47.960 align:middle line:90% We got completely confused. 00:49:47.960 --> 00:49:52.430 align:middle line:84% We couldn't articulate it as we did it in the other way. 00:49:52.430 --> 00:49:55.910 align:middle line:84% And also reading it together is confusing even though when 00:49:55.910 --> 00:49:57.530 align:middle line:90% I was reading in Spanish. 00:49:57.530 --> 00:49:59.840 align:middle line:84% I said, did I say that in Spanish or English? 00:49:59.840 --> 00:50:01.040 align:middle line:90% What did I say? 00:50:01.040 --> 00:50:03.375 align:middle line:84% You know like this all the time in your head 00:50:03.375 --> 00:50:04.250 align:middle line:90% when you were reading 00:50:04.250 --> 00:50:06.068 align:middle line:84% I was moving into the English sometimes 00:50:06.068 --> 00:50:07.610 align:middle line:84% when I was reading in Spanish and you 00:50:07.610 --> 00:50:10.970 align:middle line:84% were moving into the Spanish, we were migrating across. 00:50:10.970 --> 00:50:14.150 align:middle line:84% I don't know if we were changing but your head was like, 00:50:14.150 --> 00:50:15.560 align:middle line:90% where am ? 00:50:15.560 --> 00:50:17.240 align:middle line:90% What am I doing? 00:50:17.240 --> 00:50:19.020 align:middle line:90% That was very interesting. 00:50:19.020 --> 00:50:23.570 align:middle line:84% But the interesting thing too is that this dissonance I mean, 00:50:23.570 --> 00:50:24.380 align:middle line:90% our cognates. 00:50:24.380 --> 00:50:26.510 align:middle line:84% I mean, they sound and look alike. 00:50:26.510 --> 00:50:29.750 align:middle line:84% So when you see it on the page it's very easy to mix them up. 00:50:29.750 --> 00:50:31.550 align:middle line:84% So I think we were doing that to where 00:50:31.550 --> 00:50:34.315 align:middle line:84% we were sort of looking for our English word 00:50:34.315 --> 00:50:36.690 align:middle line:84% and saying the Spanish word because they look so similar. 00:50:36.690 --> 00:50:38.857 align:middle line:84% Which I think is an interesting kind of message too. 00:50:38.857 --> 00:50:45.730 align:middle line:90% 00:50:45.730 --> 00:50:46.360 align:middle line:90% I get by that. 00:50:46.360 --> 00:50:49.490 align:middle line:90% 00:50:49.490 --> 00:50:52.070 align:middle line:84% Hello, could you maybe show us a passage where 00:50:52.070 --> 00:50:55.920 align:middle line:90% you had to compensate in a way? 00:50:55.920 --> 00:50:57.675 align:middle line:84% Something from your working process. 00:50:57.675 --> 00:51:04.480 align:middle line:90% 00:51:04.480 --> 00:51:06.855 align:middle line:84% It says, órgano, ocular, oculta, occurencias, ordinarias, 00:51:06.855 --> 00:51:08.730 align:middle line:84% ordinando, errores, horrores, humores adores. 00:51:08.730 --> 00:51:16.307 align:middle line:90% 00:51:16.307 --> 00:51:17.140 align:middle line:90% So do you hear that? 00:51:17.140 --> 00:51:19.030 align:middle line:84% I mean even if you don't know Spanish, 00:51:19.030 --> 00:51:22.480 align:middle line:84% you can hear that there's the repetition right 00:51:22.480 --> 00:51:26.240 align:middle line:90% of the O sounds throughout. 00:51:26.240 --> 00:51:30.160 align:middle line:84% Errores and adores are the only ones. 00:51:30.160 --> 00:51:32.140 align:middle line:90% So we wanted to find words out. 00:51:32.140 --> 00:51:37.510 align:middle line:84% Luckily we were able to find mostly words 00:51:37.510 --> 00:51:42.950 align:middle line:90% that have that same sound. 00:51:42.950 --> 00:51:46.120 align:middle line:90% They have the same sound. 00:51:46.120 --> 00:51:49.060 align:middle line:84% And so in English it was ocular organs 00:51:49.060 --> 00:51:53.950 align:middle line:84% obscure ordinary occurrences organizing errors, horrors, 00:51:53.950 --> 00:51:58.300 align:middle line:90% humans, servers. 00:51:58.300 --> 00:52:02.470 align:middle line:84% So there were various words that could 00:52:02.470 --> 00:52:07.240 align:middle line:84% be chosen to represent the Spanish properly. 00:52:07.240 --> 00:52:09.940 align:middle line:84% But we had to choose words also that reflected 00:52:09.940 --> 00:52:12.910 align:middle line:90% that sound in Spanish. 00:52:12.910 --> 00:52:15.148 align:middle line:84% And I don't think that's exactly the question 00:52:15.148 --> 00:52:15.940 align:middle line:90% that you're asking. 00:52:15.940 --> 00:52:18.398 align:middle line:84% I would have to go through this and think about it further, 00:52:18.398 --> 00:52:20.560 align:middle line:84% that's a difficult question by the way. 00:52:20.560 --> 00:52:22.420 align:middle line:84% But I think that with something like 00:52:22.420 --> 00:52:24.680 align:middle line:84% that you're with a line like that, 00:52:24.680 --> 00:52:27.760 align:middle line:84% you're never thinking of just what the words are obviously. 00:52:27.760 --> 00:52:30.015 align:middle line:84% You're thinking of that chain of sounds. 00:52:30.015 --> 00:52:31.390 align:middle line:84% And you're going to put whatever. 00:52:31.390 --> 00:52:34.760 align:middle line:84% And if we had to change the meaning of that completely, 00:52:34.760 --> 00:52:35.740 align:middle line:90% we would have. 00:52:35.740 --> 00:52:38.405 align:middle line:84% Because the most important thing is to get that bom, 00:52:38.405 --> 00:52:40.030 align:middle line:84% bom, bom, bom, bom, bom, bom, bom, bom. 00:52:40.030 --> 00:52:41.363 align:middle line:90% And you've been doing that Lila. 00:52:41.363 --> 00:52:44.770 align:middle line:84% I know that you like this kind of layering of sounds 00:52:44.770 --> 00:52:45.910 align:middle line:90% because you do this now. 00:52:45.910 --> 00:52:47.410 align:middle line:90% [SNAPS] This kind of sound. 00:52:47.410 --> 00:52:49.520 align:middle line:84% One thing is she did that last night 00:52:49.520 --> 00:52:51.340 align:middle line:84% and she's done it in other readings. 00:52:51.340 --> 00:52:55.360 align:middle line:84% Where it's like the bom, bom, the one thing after another. 00:52:55.360 --> 00:52:58.060 align:middle line:84% Here is another thing that it's not-- 00:52:58.060 --> 00:52:59.845 align:middle line:90% [INTERPOSING VOICES] 00:52:59.845 --> 00:53:00.830 align:middle line:90% This is an example. 00:53:00.830 --> 00:53:01.330 align:middle line:90% --yeah. 00:53:01.330 --> 00:53:02.840 align:middle line:90% Exactly it's right there. 00:53:02.840 --> 00:53:04.270 align:middle line:90% I had forgotten about this one. 00:53:04.270 --> 00:53:08.650 align:middle line:84% This is well, why don't you explain it it's better. 00:53:08.650 --> 00:53:11.020 align:middle line:90% Corín Tellado is-- 00:53:11.020 --> 00:53:12.790 align:middle line:90% She is, was. 00:53:12.790 --> 00:53:13.650 align:middle line:90% She is. 00:53:13.650 --> 00:53:16.150 align:middle line:84% According to my mother who told me this, I didn't know this. 00:53:16.150 --> 00:53:18.220 align:middle line:84% The other day my mother came to visit me 00:53:18.220 --> 00:53:20.410 align:middle line:84% and she buys this magazine called 00:53:20.410 --> 00:53:23.320 align:middle line:90% Vanidades, which is like-- 00:53:23.320 --> 00:53:26.590 align:middle line:84% what is Vanidades, an equivalent in English? 00:53:26.590 --> 00:53:27.760 align:middle line:90% [INAUDIBLE]? 00:53:27.760 --> 00:53:28.380 align:middle line:90% No. 00:53:28.380 --> 00:53:30.480 align:middle line:90% No, not really. 00:53:30.480 --> 00:53:31.630 align:middle line:90% My people. 00:53:31.630 --> 00:53:32.740 align:middle line:90% Yeah people. 00:53:32.740 --> 00:53:34.360 align:middle line:84% Yeah it has all sort of like what's 00:53:34.360 --> 00:53:37.120 align:middle line:84% happening in the telenovelas and all this stuff. 00:53:37.120 --> 00:53:41.860 align:middle line:84% So she buys this and they have these romance novels 00:53:41.860 --> 00:53:44.110 align:middle line:84% that are cut into sections, they're 00:53:44.110 --> 00:53:46.870 align:middle line:84% sort of different chapters and eat for a month to month. 00:53:46.870 --> 00:53:49.900 align:middle line:84% And it's by Corín Tellado who is-- 00:53:49.900 --> 00:53:55.060 align:middle line:84% Corín Tellado was very cheap little novels that you read 00:53:55.060 --> 00:53:59.260 align:middle line:84% when I was 13 years old about romance. 00:53:59.260 --> 00:54:03.220 align:middle line:90% And written by a Spanish woman. 00:54:03.220 --> 00:54:06.040 align:middle line:84% That actually I found out that she's 00:54:06.040 --> 00:54:10.480 align:middle line:84% the person that more books has sold in the history of Spain 00:54:10.480 --> 00:54:11.980 align:middle line:90% after Quixote. 00:54:11.980 --> 00:54:16.600 align:middle line:84% So let me tell you that she was very, very popular. 00:54:16.600 --> 00:54:19.570 align:middle line:84% All over Latin America, It was amazing. 00:54:19.570 --> 00:54:24.220 align:middle line:84% And every summer I was like, reading all the Corín Tellado 00:54:24.220 --> 00:54:24.790 align:middle line:90% books. 00:54:24.790 --> 00:54:30.010 align:middle line:84% So somehow in this book this Corín Tellado appeared 00:54:30.010 --> 00:54:36.700 align:middle line:84% because it was a scene of seduction. 00:54:36.700 --> 00:54:42.980 align:middle line:84% The ice in a moment of seduction and let's read the poem. 00:54:42.980 --> 00:54:50.100 align:middle line:84% So it's Él me mira muy de cerca, el verde ocupa casi todo el ojo 00:54:50.100 --> 00:54:51.850 align:middle line:84% y el color es tan intenso como hechizante. 00:54:51.850 --> 00:54:52.831 align:middle line:84% En los ojos flota una serenida seductora. 00:54:52.831 --> 00:54:53.113 align:middle line:90% Un erotismo controlado. 00:54:53.113 --> 00:54:54.905 align:middle line:84% Una mirada cautivante, diría Corín Tellado. 00:54:54.905 --> 00:55:01.690 align:middle line:90% 00:55:01.690 --> 00:55:05.380 align:middle line:84% He looks at me up close, the green takes up most of the eye. 00:55:05.380 --> 00:55:09.550 align:middle line:84% And the color is as intense as it is spellbinding. 00:55:09.550 --> 00:55:12.820 align:middle line:84% A seductive serenity floats within the eyes. 00:55:12.820 --> 00:55:16.910 align:middle line:84% A captivating stare Danielle Steele might say. 00:55:16.910 --> 00:55:20.650 align:middle line:84% So I mean if we kept Corín Tellado it would have meant 00:55:20.650 --> 00:55:22.610 align:middle line:90% nothing to the English reader. 00:55:22.610 --> 00:55:24.880 align:middle line:84% I mean there's a good example of Benjamin. 00:55:24.880 --> 00:55:26.950 align:middle line:84% The translation does not exist for someone 00:55:26.950 --> 00:55:28.360 align:middle line:90% who can read the Spanish. 00:55:28.360 --> 00:55:32.730 align:middle line:84% So who would be the equivalent of Corín Tellado? 00:55:32.730 --> 00:55:35.125 align:middle line:84% And immediately you know what that means. 00:55:35.125 --> 00:55:37.960 align:middle line:84% You know the kind of literature that you're 00:55:37.960 --> 00:55:41.920 align:middle line:84% going to get even if you've never read her. 00:55:41.920 --> 00:55:43.750 align:middle line:84% So Corín Tellado is the same thing. 00:55:43.750 --> 00:55:47.530 align:middle line:84% I mean, my mother actually has read her 00:55:47.530 --> 00:55:49.342 align:middle line:90% and told me that she's dead. 00:55:49.342 --> 00:55:51.550 align:middle line:84% She's been dead forever, but they still publish Corín 00:55:51.550 --> 00:55:54.430 align:middle line:84% Tellado and it's probably someone else writing them, 00:55:54.430 --> 00:55:57.550 align:middle line:90% but she's so popular. 00:55:57.550 --> 00:56:02.650 align:middle line:84% Because people expect certain kind of writing. 00:56:02.650 --> 00:56:08.050 align:middle line:84% And also because it's obviously that the whole thing is ironic. 00:56:08.050 --> 00:56:11.470 align:middle line:84% But at the same time is acknowledging that you 00:56:11.470 --> 00:56:13.990 align:middle line:90% have that perception also. 00:56:13.990 --> 00:56:18.310 align:middle line:84% Even though you are laughing at Corín Tellado very well and you 00:56:18.310 --> 00:56:19.210 align:middle line:90% have read it. 00:56:19.210 --> 00:56:21.980 align:middle line:90% And a captivating-- 00:56:21.980 --> 00:56:23.560 align:middle line:90% A captivating stare. 00:56:23.560 --> 00:56:24.970 align:middle line:90% --a captivating stare. 00:56:24.970 --> 00:56:27.380 align:middle line:84% Which is kind of cheesy sort of playing off like what? 00:56:27.380 --> 00:56:29.440 align:middle line:84% He looked at me with a captivating stare. 00:56:29.440 --> 00:56:33.160 align:middle line:90% 00:56:33.160 --> 00:56:38.425 align:middle line:84% That line wouldn't have been parody if you didn't know who 00:56:38.425 --> 00:56:44.423 align:middle line:84% Corín Tellado was or was and is, I guess. 00:56:44.423 --> 00:56:46.090 align:middle line:84% It's been with Danielle Steele it works. 00:56:46.090 --> 00:56:47.590 align:middle line:90% That's one where we had to-- 00:56:47.590 --> 00:56:50.695 align:middle line:90% Yeah we were talking about. 00:56:50.695 --> 00:56:52.570 align:middle line:84% --and, of course, I knew who Corín Tellado is 00:56:52.570 --> 00:56:54.570 align:middle line:84% but immediately you said when I was translating, 00:56:54.570 --> 00:56:56.890 align:middle line:84% so who would be the equivalent of this? 00:56:56.890 --> 00:56:59.350 align:middle line:90% Yeah, exactly. 00:56:59.350 --> 00:57:02.245 align:middle line:84% So that one was right under the other one. 00:57:02.245 --> 00:57:05.530 align:middle line:90% The stupid thing that you saw. 00:57:05.530 --> 00:57:07.940 align:middle line:84% Thank you all then for coming and thank you so much, 00:57:07.940 --> 00:57:09.070 align:middle line:90% Rosa and Lila. 00:57:09.070 --> 00:57:10.138 align:middle line:90% We really appreciate it. 00:57:10.138 --> 00:57:10.930 align:middle line:90% This was wonderful. 00:57:10.930 --> 00:57:14.580 align:middle line:90% [AUDIENCE APPLAUDS] 00:57:14.580 --> 00:57:19.000 align:middle line:90%