WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:00.690 align:middle line:90% 00:00:00.690 --> 00:00:02.009 align:middle line:90% Now we're going to do a Q&A. 00:00:02.009 --> 00:00:03.030 align:middle line:90% Sure. 00:00:03.030 --> 00:00:04.710 align:middle line:84% So if you'll raise your hand, I'll 00:00:04.710 --> 00:00:07.110 align:middle line:84% come by with a microphone when you have a question. 00:00:07.110 --> 00:00:13.290 align:middle line:90% 00:00:13.290 --> 00:00:16.470 align:middle line:90% I think we met years ago. 00:00:16.470 --> 00:00:20.810 align:middle line:90% And anyway, good to see you. 00:00:20.810 --> 00:00:21.560 align:middle line:90% Where did we meet? 00:00:21.560 --> 00:00:30.300 align:middle line:90% 00:00:30.300 --> 00:00:32.070 align:middle line:84% Thank you so much for being here. 00:00:32.070 --> 00:00:36.900 align:middle line:84% With that last poem, that method of what you talked about, 00:00:36.900 --> 00:00:39.377 align:middle line:84% the different images coming together to create this whole, 00:00:39.377 --> 00:00:40.960 align:middle line:84% it seems like it would be a hard thing 00:00:40.960 --> 00:00:44.363 align:middle line:84% to sustain through as long of a poem as that was. 00:00:44.363 --> 00:00:45.780 align:middle line:84% So what was the process of writing 00:00:45.780 --> 00:00:47.610 align:middle line:84% that, or how did you sustain your attention 00:00:47.610 --> 00:00:50.670 align:middle line:90% or that approach? 00:00:50.670 --> 00:00:56.640 align:middle line:84% Thanks for that question about sort of form and craft. 00:00:56.640 --> 00:01:01.740 align:middle line:84% I think I've been known for writing a lot of sequences 00:01:01.740 --> 00:01:05.280 align:middle line:84% where the sections are discrete passages, 00:01:05.280 --> 00:01:07.380 align:middle line:84% and then I can, like, change the tone 00:01:07.380 --> 00:01:13.470 align:middle line:84% and change the syntax or the varying imagery. 00:01:13.470 --> 00:01:17.520 align:middle line:84% But I think it's always good to give yourself challenges 00:01:17.520 --> 00:01:20.200 align:middle line:84% to try and do different things you haven't done before, 00:01:20.200 --> 00:01:25.620 align:middle line:84% and I wanted to think about how I could write a long poem where 00:01:25.620 --> 00:01:28.935 align:middle line:84% those pauses between sections of a sequence were-- 00:01:28.935 --> 00:01:31.500 align:middle line:90% 00:01:31.500 --> 00:01:33.390 align:middle line:84% that they disappeared so that there was 00:01:33.390 --> 00:01:35.880 align:middle line:90% one kind of continuous notion. 00:01:35.880 --> 00:01:39.430 align:middle line:90% And I thought of Gamelan music. 00:01:39.430 --> 00:01:42.930 align:middle line:84% I don't know if you know that Indonesian form of Gamelan 00:01:42.930 --> 00:01:45.480 align:middle line:84% music which has lots of repetition 00:01:45.480 --> 00:01:48.540 align:middle line:84% with sort of bamboo xylophones and gongs. 00:01:48.540 --> 00:01:51.810 align:middle line:84% But you can kind of hear over time the transitions, 00:01:51.810 --> 00:01:53.610 align:middle line:90% the changes to the music. 00:01:53.610 --> 00:01:59.400 align:middle line:84% So my process was to write lots of sections 00:01:59.400 --> 00:02:00.630 align:middle line:90% and to start with that. 00:02:00.630 --> 00:02:02.310 align:middle line:84% And then instead of saying, well, I'm 00:02:02.310 --> 00:02:05.490 align:middle line:84% going to then juxtapose them or move them around 00:02:05.490 --> 00:02:08.970 align:middle line:84% to create a sequence, I'm going to sort of look at all 00:02:08.970 --> 00:02:10.680 align:middle line:84% these different sections and see which 00:02:10.680 --> 00:02:14.640 align:middle line:84% ones I can dissolve the boundaries in between. 00:02:14.640 --> 00:02:16.980 align:middle line:84% And then I gave myself the formal structure 00:02:16.980 --> 00:02:19.800 align:middle line:84% of creating one and two line stanzas instead 00:02:19.800 --> 00:02:21.570 align:middle line:90% of blocks of lines. 00:02:21.570 --> 00:02:23.850 align:middle line:84% I thought I want a lot of white space 00:02:23.850 --> 00:02:28.140 align:middle line:84% because that breathing room can allow room 00:02:28.140 --> 00:02:31.260 align:middle line:84% to transition or jump to a different register. 00:02:31.260 --> 00:02:33.360 align:middle line:90% So I gave myself just-- 00:02:33.360 --> 00:02:35.490 align:middle line:84% again, it's a kind of like invented form. 00:02:35.490 --> 00:02:38.190 align:middle line:84% I thought, OK, if I have a poem that's 00:02:38.190 --> 00:02:42.720 align:middle line:84% one line and then two lines, two lines, one, two, two, one, two, 00:02:42.720 --> 00:02:44.715 align:middle line:84% two, one, two, two, one, two, two, one, 00:02:44.715 --> 00:02:49.920 align:middle line:84% that that kind of rhythm would set up a kind of pattern 00:02:49.920 --> 00:02:51.510 align:middle line:90% that I could use in language. 00:02:51.510 --> 00:02:54.480 align:middle line:90% So I probably had-- 00:02:54.480 --> 00:02:58.350 align:middle line:84% the last poem took me 9 months to write. 00:02:58.350 --> 00:03:02.070 align:middle line:84% So I probably had about 20 sections of poems. 00:03:02.070 --> 00:03:05.460 align:middle line:84% And then I started to play with stringing them together, 00:03:05.460 --> 00:03:07.860 align:middle line:84% and I didn't really know where the beginning was 00:03:07.860 --> 00:03:08.880 align:middle line:90% or the end was. 00:03:08.880 --> 00:03:11.200 align:middle line:84% So I was working from the inside out. 00:03:11.200 --> 00:03:15.030 align:middle line:84% But I was looking at certain images like the image of glass. 00:03:15.030 --> 00:03:17.880 align:middle line:84% Or there's the image of the coyote that 00:03:17.880 --> 00:03:20.680 align:middle line:84% appears and disappears and things like that. 00:03:20.680 --> 00:03:23.500 align:middle line:84% And I thought, well, I don't want them too close together. 00:03:23.500 --> 00:03:28.110 align:middle line:84% I want them to recur like music so that they're coming back 00:03:28.110 --> 00:03:30.480 align:middle line:90% to kind of form of insistence. 00:03:30.480 --> 00:03:34.050 align:middle line:84% And then as I strung them together, a lot of the sections 00:03:34.050 --> 00:03:36.090 align:middle line:90% started to meld together. 00:03:36.090 --> 00:03:39.810 align:middle line:84% And then eventually, I was able to have 00:03:39.810 --> 00:03:41.730 align:middle line:90% sort of what was a beginning. 00:03:41.730 --> 00:03:43.650 align:middle line:84% And then I didn't know where the end was. 00:03:43.650 --> 00:03:46.740 align:middle line:84% I had all these sections that were sort of hanging out there. 00:03:46.740 --> 00:03:51.210 align:middle line:84% And I sort of decided to run with it as far as I could 00:03:51.210 --> 00:03:55.740 align:middle line:84% and then to just sort of cut it where it seemed like that 00:03:55.740 --> 00:03:57.570 align:middle line:90% had a kind of resonance to it. 00:03:57.570 --> 00:04:00.690 align:middle line:84% So that was my process of creating 00:04:00.690 --> 00:04:03.390 align:middle line:84% that kind of a form which I hadn't done before. 00:04:03.390 --> 00:04:05.670 align:middle line:84% But again, it took a lot of time, 00:04:05.670 --> 00:04:10.140 align:middle line:84% and I was meeting with students in a class this morning, 00:04:10.140 --> 00:04:13.110 align:middle line:84% and we had a wonderful conversation about process. 00:04:13.110 --> 00:04:15.210 align:middle line:84% And it was about making a mess and then 00:04:15.210 --> 00:04:18.390 align:middle line:84% trying to clean it up to clarify it and making a mess 00:04:18.390 --> 00:04:20.810 align:middle line:84% and then clarifying and that kind of back and forth. 00:04:20.810 --> 00:04:23.880 align:middle line:84% And so that was very much at work in this process. 00:04:23.880 --> 00:04:32.000 align:middle line:90% 00:04:32.000 --> 00:04:33.610 align:middle line:84% I noticed in one of the early poems 00:04:33.610 --> 00:04:36.130 align:middle line:84% in Sight Lines, one of the sections, 00:04:36.130 --> 00:04:40.820 align:middle line:84% there were some words that have strike-throughs. 00:04:40.820 --> 00:04:43.550 align:middle line:84% And then it seemed like another similar word. 00:04:43.550 --> 00:04:46.280 align:middle line:84% Maybe-- is that a revision process, or how 00:04:46.280 --> 00:04:47.640 align:middle line:90% did that come to be? 00:04:47.640 --> 00:04:52.670 align:middle line:84% So again, that came up in the class I visited this morning. 00:04:52.670 --> 00:04:55.250 align:middle line:84% That process of strike through lines 00:04:55.250 --> 00:04:58.020 align:middle line:84% started in my previous book, Compass Rose. 00:04:58.020 --> 00:04:59.840 align:middle line:84% And it came out of a collaboration 00:04:59.840 --> 00:05:02.480 align:middle line:90% I did with a sculptor. 00:05:02.480 --> 00:05:04.700 align:middle line:84% And I haven't done collaboration a lot, 00:05:04.700 --> 00:05:08.810 align:middle line:84% but the two times I've done it have been at times when I'm 00:05:08.810 --> 00:05:10.610 align:middle line:84% like thinking, what can I do next, 00:05:10.610 --> 00:05:12.320 align:middle line:90% or I need a kind of challenge. 00:05:12.320 --> 00:05:15.350 align:middle line:84% And so once I worked with a Chinese composer. 00:05:15.350 --> 00:05:17.840 align:middle line:84% And then this last collaboration, 00:05:17.840 --> 00:05:20.300 align:middle line:84% I worked with a sculptor in Santa Fe. 00:05:20.300 --> 00:05:24.560 align:middle line:84% And she's very meditative, and she does abstract drawings. 00:05:24.560 --> 00:05:28.700 align:middle line:84% And she layered graphite-- like 50, 60 layers. 00:05:28.700 --> 00:05:31.970 align:middle line:84% Then so I would go to her studio and watch her work, 00:05:31.970 --> 00:05:35.660 align:middle line:84% and I thought, I like how the process of creating 00:05:35.660 --> 00:05:39.200 align:middle line:84% becomes part of the final work of art. 00:05:39.200 --> 00:05:41.660 align:middle line:84% And I thought, well, how can I get her-- 00:05:41.660 --> 00:05:44.360 align:middle line:84% instead of revising a poem and then selecting the best 00:05:44.360 --> 00:05:47.390 align:middle line:84% draft or the best language and then letting 00:05:47.390 --> 00:05:51.470 align:middle line:84% the process, a lot of that fade or disappear, how could I 00:05:51.470 --> 00:05:52.850 align:middle line:90% incorporate some of that? 00:05:52.850 --> 00:05:56.660 align:middle line:84% And I thought, well, if I had a voice and someone was speaking, 00:05:56.660 --> 00:06:01.100 align:middle line:84% a man or a woman, she could say something and say, that's not 00:06:01.100 --> 00:06:03.350 align:middle line:90% quite right and then revise it. 00:06:03.350 --> 00:06:07.560 align:middle line:84% So like in the first poem, "Water Calligraphy," 00:06:07.560 --> 00:06:10.200 align:middle line:84% it's a person who was actually tortured during the Cultural 00:06:10.200 --> 00:06:11.980 align:middle line:90% Revolution in China. 00:06:11.980 --> 00:06:14.940 align:middle line:84% And he's thinking, and he says sun-- no, moon. 00:06:14.940 --> 00:06:17.070 align:middle line:84% And so there's a strikethrough with sun, 00:06:17.070 --> 00:06:18.750 align:middle line:90% and he's correcting himself. 00:06:18.750 --> 00:06:21.570 align:middle line:90% So you can see that process. 00:06:21.570 --> 00:06:24.210 align:middle line:84% And it has to do with accuracy but also 00:06:24.210 --> 00:06:30.310 align:middle line:84% trying to show how the mind sort of moves and twists and turns. 00:06:30.310 --> 00:06:33.750 align:middle line:84% And I think it also has to do with the idea 00:06:33.750 --> 00:06:37.200 align:middle line:84% that the words are necessary, so that they're there, 00:06:37.200 --> 00:06:38.920 align:middle line:90% but then they're not accurate. 00:06:38.920 --> 00:06:41.400 align:middle line:84% So they're crossed out, and they're stuck through. 00:06:41.400 --> 00:06:45.210 align:middle line:84% And I liked that that created a kind of tension. 00:06:45.210 --> 00:06:47.050 align:middle line:84% And then once I did that, I thought, 00:06:47.050 --> 00:06:48.960 align:middle line:84% I've got to be really sparing with this. 00:06:48.960 --> 00:06:51.390 align:middle line:84% You can start to correct the corrections 00:06:51.390 --> 00:06:52.800 align:middle line:90% and revise the revisions. 00:06:52.800 --> 00:06:55.860 align:middle line:84% And then again, you can end up with a big mess or lots 00:06:55.860 --> 00:06:58.050 align:middle line:84% of strikethrough lines, and it overwhelms the poem. 00:06:58.050 --> 00:07:11.130 align:middle line:90% 00:07:11.130 --> 00:07:13.540 align:middle line:90% I have two questions. 00:07:13.540 --> 00:07:15.900 align:middle line:84% So at the beginning, the lady mentioned that there 00:07:15.900 --> 00:07:17.560 align:middle line:90% are classes offered here. 00:07:17.560 --> 00:07:24.120 align:middle line:84% So my first question is, do you think poetry is learned, 00:07:24.120 --> 00:07:30.900 align:middle line:84% or it's just something, like, gift, called a gift? 00:07:30.900 --> 00:07:36.420 align:middle line:84% So maybe one day, it just flows out of you in some way? 00:07:36.420 --> 00:07:39.180 align:middle line:84% I sort of want to reject both extremes. 00:07:39.180 --> 00:07:43.140 align:middle line:84% I guess my feeling is when I used 00:07:43.140 --> 00:07:45.630 align:middle line:84% to teach at the Institute of American Indian Arts, 00:07:45.630 --> 00:07:49.440 align:middle line:84% I would tell the native students poetry can't be taught. 00:07:49.440 --> 00:07:50.680 align:middle line:90% I can't make you a poet. 00:07:50.680 --> 00:07:53.460 align:middle line:84% You can't just will yourself to be a poet. 00:07:53.460 --> 00:07:57.030 align:middle line:84% But I said, if you have a passion for language, 00:07:57.030 --> 00:08:02.010 align:middle line:84% if you enjoy playing with language and experimenting, 00:08:02.010 --> 00:08:05.460 align:middle line:84% I can help you develop your voice and your vision. 00:08:05.460 --> 00:08:08.550 align:middle line:84% And that is a lot of hard work, and there's 00:08:08.550 --> 00:08:14.070 align:middle line:90% no substitute or easy path. 00:08:14.070 --> 00:08:16.780 align:middle line:84% Almost all of my peers, my contemporaries, 00:08:16.780 --> 00:08:18.810 align:middle line:90% went to graduate school. 00:08:18.810 --> 00:08:21.660 align:middle line:90% I'm an anomaly in many ways. 00:08:21.660 --> 00:08:25.020 align:middle line:84% I'm a science dropout, and then I started-- 00:08:25.020 --> 00:08:27.450 align:middle line:84% I was in at MIT, and I started writing poetry. 00:08:27.450 --> 00:08:29.470 align:middle line:90% That wasn't supposed to happen. 00:08:29.470 --> 00:08:31.980 align:middle line:84% And then I transferred to the University of California 00:08:31.980 --> 00:08:35.340 align:middle line:84% at Berkeley, and I thought, I'm never going to graduate. 00:08:35.340 --> 00:08:37.590 align:middle line:90% I have science credits. 00:08:37.590 --> 00:08:39.419 align:middle line:84% I want to study classical Chinese. 00:08:39.419 --> 00:08:41.640 align:middle line:84% I want to learn all these different things that I 00:08:41.640 --> 00:08:42.960 align:middle line:90% think would help me as a poet. 00:08:42.960 --> 00:08:48.690 align:middle line:84% And I went to UC Berkeley poet and critic Josephine 00:08:48.690 --> 00:08:53.370 align:middle line:84% Miles, who rescued me, and she said, create your own major. 00:08:53.370 --> 00:08:54.910 align:middle line:90% Take whatever you want. 00:08:54.910 --> 00:08:57.840 align:middle line:84% And I remember, she said, I don't care if it's Swahili. 00:08:57.840 --> 00:09:00.420 align:middle line:84% But someday, you're going to be a poet. 00:09:00.420 --> 00:09:04.110 align:middle line:84% It really means a lot if someone believes in you. 00:09:04.110 --> 00:09:08.250 align:middle line:84% In 2002, I traveled Taiwan with Derek Walcott. 00:09:08.250 --> 00:09:11.550 align:middle line:84% And Derek said to me behind every poet, 00:09:11.550 --> 00:09:13.620 align:middle line:84% because the path is so difficult, 00:09:13.620 --> 00:09:16.560 align:middle line:84% there's someone who says this poetry is worth 00:09:16.560 --> 00:09:20.140 align:middle line:90% doing because it's a life work. 00:09:20.140 --> 00:09:24.420 align:middle line:84% And I think if you feel that urgency and necessity 00:09:24.420 --> 00:09:27.970 align:middle line:84% of language, that's also a kind of prerequisite. 00:09:27.970 --> 00:09:30.580 align:middle line:84% So again, I'm giving you a long answer, 00:09:30.580 --> 00:09:34.650 align:middle line:84% but you can't just sort of learn or will to be a poet. 00:09:34.650 --> 00:09:38.320 align:middle line:84% It's years of learning and discovering. 00:09:38.320 --> 00:09:41.580 align:middle line:84% But I do think along the way, teachers 00:09:41.580 --> 00:09:43.480 align:middle line:90% can be extremely helpful. 00:09:43.480 --> 00:09:45.940 align:middle line:90% Other artists can be helpful. 00:09:45.940 --> 00:09:50.050 align:middle line:84% I found conversations with scientists helpful. 00:09:50.050 --> 00:09:55.770 align:middle line:84% So it's a solitary task when you're sitting on the computer, 00:09:55.770 --> 00:10:00.180 align:middle line:84% facing a blank page, writing by hand how do you write a poem, 00:10:00.180 --> 00:10:02.970 align:middle line:90% how does it create itself. 00:10:02.970 --> 00:10:04.860 align:middle line:90% It's years of work. 00:10:04.860 --> 00:10:08.580 align:middle line:84% And you know, my feeling is get all the help you can. 00:10:08.580 --> 00:10:09.750 align:middle line:90% If it's a class, great. 00:10:09.750 --> 00:10:13.650 align:middle line:84% If it's talking to the artist, great. 00:10:13.650 --> 00:10:15.510 align:middle line:84% Thank you, and thank you for your answer 00:10:15.510 --> 00:10:20.520 align:middle line:84% because when you just mentioned play with the language, 00:10:20.520 --> 00:10:24.960 align:middle line:84% it actually has some connection to my second question. 00:10:24.960 --> 00:10:35.700 align:middle line:84% So how necessary is it to make sure the grammar is correct 00:10:35.700 --> 00:10:37.320 align:middle line:90% when you write a poem? 00:10:37.320 --> 00:10:40.840 align:middle line:84% Because English is my second language. 00:10:40.840 --> 00:10:42.720 align:middle line:84% So when I write in my own language-- 00:10:42.720 --> 00:10:45.780 align:middle line:90% I'm Chinese, by the way-- 00:10:45.780 --> 00:10:50.820 align:middle line:84% I may not write just regular sentences. 00:10:50.820 --> 00:10:55.770 align:middle line:84% But I have more freedom to make it sound not wrong 00:10:55.770 --> 00:11:00.180 align:middle line:90% and still convey my message. 00:11:00.180 --> 00:11:02.910 align:middle line:84% But when I write in English, sometimes I 00:11:02.910 --> 00:11:06.720 align:middle line:84% may focus on the meaning first, and then I realized, 00:11:06.720 --> 00:11:07.980 align:middle line:90% was that right grammar? 00:11:07.980 --> 00:11:11.670 align:middle line:84% That actually bothers me from time to time. 00:11:11.670 --> 00:11:14.070 align:middle line:84% I think it's important to know the rules in order 00:11:14.070 --> 00:11:17.950 align:middle line:84% to be able to break them when that's necessary. 00:11:17.950 --> 00:11:22.020 align:middle line:84% So for instance, the monologue that I read to you 00:11:22.020 --> 00:11:25.650 align:middle line:84% in the voice of Salt is a run on sentence, 00:11:25.650 --> 00:11:28.500 align:middle line:90% which normally scares me. 00:11:28.500 --> 00:11:31.980 align:middle line:84% I like to have punctuation because it kind of makes 00:11:31.980 --> 00:11:32.760 align:middle line:90% me feel safe. 00:11:32.760 --> 00:11:36.660 align:middle line:84% Or also, it becomes a kind of interesting tool in my hands 00:11:36.660 --> 00:11:39.510 align:middle line:84% where, oh, if it's a semicolon, I think then 00:11:39.510 --> 00:11:42.630 align:middle line:84% it changes, like, this phrase to that phrase. 00:11:42.630 --> 00:11:45.960 align:middle line:84% If it's a semicolon, there's like a certain connection 00:11:45.960 --> 00:11:47.070 align:middle line:90% between them. 00:11:47.070 --> 00:11:50.220 align:middle line:84% Or if it's a dash, which I use a lot in this book, 00:11:50.220 --> 00:11:52.320 align:middle line:90% it's more like a leap or a jump. 00:11:52.320 --> 00:11:55.780 align:middle line:84% So I think it's important to know all the tools 00:11:55.780 --> 00:11:57.690 align:middle line:90% and have them at your disposal. 00:11:57.690 --> 00:12:00.780 align:middle line:84% But then at a certain point when necessary, 00:12:00.780 --> 00:12:03.000 align:middle line:84% it's fine to sort of, like, transcend them 00:12:03.000 --> 00:12:04.740 align:middle line:90% or break them or violate them. 00:12:04.740 --> 00:12:08.410 align:middle line:84% But at least you know that you're doing that. 00:12:08.410 --> 00:12:09.790 align:middle line:84% I'm going to circle back to China 00:12:09.790 --> 00:12:12.310 align:middle line:84% just very quickly because I have gone 00:12:12.310 --> 00:12:15.640 align:middle line:84% to China, Hong Kong, and Taiwan for international poetry 00:12:15.640 --> 00:12:16.360 align:middle line:90% festivals. 00:12:16.360 --> 00:12:20.110 align:middle line:84% And you know, poets like Xi Chuan or Tang Di, 00:12:20.110 --> 00:12:22.840 align:middle line:84% who's at Peking University, they'll say, 00:12:22.840 --> 00:12:25.540 align:middle line:84% we don't understand this thing where all these American poets 00:12:25.540 --> 00:12:28.570 align:middle line:84% go to graduate school and learn to study to be a poet. 00:12:28.570 --> 00:12:31.210 align:middle line:84% We're like, studying ancient art. 00:12:31.210 --> 00:12:32.350 align:middle line:90% We're looking at paintings. 00:12:32.350 --> 00:12:35.470 align:middle line:90% We're working as journalists. 00:12:35.470 --> 00:12:38.380 align:middle line:90% We feel like it can't be taught. 00:12:38.380 --> 00:12:40.300 align:middle line:90% So what is going on there? 00:12:40.300 --> 00:12:43.870 align:middle line:84% And you know-- and then they come to realize, well, again, 00:12:43.870 --> 00:12:48.070 align:middle line:84% however you learn your craft and your training, whatever works 00:12:48.070 --> 00:12:49.120 align:middle line:90% is fine. 00:12:49.120 --> 00:12:53.350 align:middle line:84% But Chinese is a huge influence on my poetry 00:12:53.350 --> 00:12:56.710 align:middle line:84% because I've translated classical as well 00:12:56.710 --> 00:13:03.400 align:middle line:84% as modern poets as early as Tao Yuanming, 365-427 Common Era, 00:13:03.400 --> 00:13:09.250 align:middle line:84% to Wen Yiduo, assassinated in 1946, who's writing in baihua, 00:13:09.250 --> 00:13:10.960 align:middle line:90% in colloquial Chinese. 00:13:10.960 --> 00:13:13.270 align:middle line:84% And he's violating the traditional, 00:13:13.270 --> 00:13:16.690 align:middle line:84% subverting the traditional Tang Dynasty imagery 00:13:16.690 --> 00:13:20.230 align:middle line:84% and transforming it with a lot of the ugliness of China. 00:13:20.230 --> 00:13:21.940 align:middle line:84% It's important to learn that tradition 00:13:21.940 --> 00:13:24.460 align:middle line:84% and, again, like punctuation or grammar, 00:13:24.460 --> 00:13:29.280 align:middle line:84% to be able to violate it at the points that you need to. 00:13:29.280 --> 00:13:30.762 align:middle line:90% Thank you. 00:13:30.762 --> 00:13:33.117 align:middle line:90% Should we stop? 00:13:33.117 --> 00:13:34.477 align:middle line:90% Yes, [INAUDIBLE]. 00:13:34.477 --> 00:13:35.310 align:middle line:90% Thank you very much. 00:13:35.310 --> 00:13:36.030 align:middle line:90% OK, great. 00:13:36.030 --> 00:13:37.940 align:middle line:90% Thank you. 00:13:37.940 --> 00:13:41.000 align:middle line:90%