WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:00.720 align:middle line:90% 00:00:00.720 --> 00:00:02.870 align:middle line:84% I think we can also make a distinction there. 00:00:02.870 --> 00:00:05.040 align:middle line:84% I think you're talking about legal rights. 00:00:05.040 --> 00:00:06.120 align:middle line:90% And that's one thing. 00:00:06.120 --> 00:00:08.550 align:middle line:84% But obviously, a magazine or press can at any point 00:00:08.550 --> 00:00:10.608 align:middle line:84% make a house policy if they don't 00:00:10.608 --> 00:00:12.150 align:middle line:84% like the idea of publishing something 00:00:12.150 --> 00:00:13.400 align:middle line:90% that's already been out there. 00:00:13.400 --> 00:00:16.000 align:middle line:84% That's obviously a perfectly legitimate stance to take. 00:00:16.000 --> 00:00:17.760 align:middle line:84% But I think that in a larger sense, when 00:00:17.760 --> 00:00:19.890 align:middle line:84% I think about the question like what 00:00:19.890 --> 00:00:23.880 align:middle line:84% does it mean to be published, I kind of go back to like-- 00:00:23.880 --> 00:00:25.650 align:middle line:84% I hear some other question behind it 00:00:25.650 --> 00:00:28.890 align:middle line:84% which are sort of a social relationship which is like, 00:00:28.890 --> 00:00:32.685 align:middle line:84% what does it mean to be published, 00:00:32.685 --> 00:00:36.480 align:middle line:84% who gets to say that, why are we concerned 00:00:36.480 --> 00:00:38.917 align:middle line:90% about that in the first place. 00:00:38.917 --> 00:00:41.250 align:middle line:84% There are a lot of-- and maybe that's part of the reason 00:00:41.250 --> 00:00:43.350 align:middle line:84% that I was hoping we could-- to bring 00:00:43.350 --> 00:00:47.160 align:middle line:84% for this long history of printing 00:00:47.160 --> 00:00:48.960 align:middle line:90% and long history of bookselling. 00:00:48.960 --> 00:00:51.330 align:middle line:84% There are social structures that are obviously 00:00:51.330 --> 00:00:54.510 align:middle line:84% in place that are the explanation for why 00:00:54.510 --> 00:00:56.160 align:middle line:90% some of these quirks exist. 00:00:56.160 --> 00:00:59.460 align:middle line:84% And some of it is borrowed, I think, from the larger presses 00:00:59.460 --> 00:01:00.450 align:middle line:90% without thought. 00:01:00.450 --> 00:01:02.370 align:middle line:84% And not only is it true that nobody 00:01:02.370 --> 00:01:05.430 align:middle line:84% could go to court who's really a poetry publisher 00:01:05.430 --> 00:01:08.880 align:middle line:84% and sue over anything, it's also true that in American courts, 00:01:08.880 --> 00:01:11.220 align:middle line:84% there has to be dollars at stake. 00:01:11.220 --> 00:01:14.340 align:middle line:84% You have to be able to put a lost amount on it. 00:01:14.340 --> 00:01:18.030 align:middle line:84% And there are no dollars to speak of at stake 00:01:18.030 --> 00:01:20.940 align:middle line:90% in our beautiful field. 00:01:20.940 --> 00:01:23.670 align:middle line:84% But from a writer's perspective, it's like, what do you want. 00:01:23.670 --> 00:01:25.083 align:middle line:90% What do you want out of this? 00:01:25.083 --> 00:01:26.250 align:middle line:90% Are you trying to get a job? 00:01:26.250 --> 00:01:30.990 align:middle line:84% Yeah, actually, those academies in various universities 00:01:30.990 --> 00:01:33.300 align:middle line:84% do care about publication credits. 00:01:33.300 --> 00:01:35.190 align:middle line:84% Are you applying for an NEA grant? 00:01:35.190 --> 00:01:36.717 align:middle line:90% They have a set of rules. 00:01:36.717 --> 00:01:38.550 align:middle line:84% These different groups have different rules. 00:01:38.550 --> 00:01:40.350 align:middle line:84% But as a writer, you have to say, 00:01:40.350 --> 00:01:43.680 align:middle line:84% what am I actually after with this idea of getting published. 00:01:43.680 --> 00:01:48.150 align:middle line:84% And to me, it's interesting and important to those people 00:01:48.150 --> 00:01:50.820 align:middle line:84% that's interesting too, people that have a shot at getting 00:01:50.820 --> 00:01:52.410 align:middle line:90% a tenure track job. 00:01:52.410 --> 00:01:55.800 align:middle line:84% And I understand why you want to be published here and not here. 00:01:55.800 --> 00:02:01.170 align:middle line:84% The sense of poetry as involving status is-- 00:02:01.170 --> 00:02:02.940 align:middle line:90% it's a reality. 00:02:02.940 --> 00:02:07.530 align:middle line:84% And being part a way to create cultural capital that then you 00:02:07.530 --> 00:02:12.120 align:middle line:84% can cash in for some very small prizes here and there. 00:02:12.120 --> 00:02:12.870 align:middle line:90% That exists. 00:02:12.870 --> 00:02:17.010 align:middle line:84% I mean, but I think if you're not interested in any of that, 00:02:17.010 --> 00:02:19.185 align:middle line:84% it becomes an entirely different question. 00:02:19.185 --> 00:02:21.060 align:middle line:84% I mean, if you have a day job and you're just 00:02:21.060 --> 00:02:23.700 align:middle line:84% focused on the art, which is really most 00:02:23.700 --> 00:02:25.890 align:middle line:90% of our publishers at SPD are-- 00:02:25.890 --> 00:02:29.340 align:middle line:84% they have day jobs or one two people 00:02:29.340 --> 00:02:31.650 align:middle line:90% are not taking paychecks. 00:02:31.650 --> 00:02:35.155 align:middle line:84% If they're lucky, each book is paying for the next book 00:02:35.155 --> 00:02:36.780 align:middle line:84% if they kind of know what they're doing 00:02:36.780 --> 00:02:38.400 align:middle line:90% and learn the ropes. 00:02:38.400 --> 00:02:42.690 align:middle line:84% I think in that world, can ask different kinds of questions. 00:02:42.690 --> 00:02:45.630 align:middle line:84% Do you want to have input on your cover? 00:02:45.630 --> 00:02:48.810 align:middle line:84% In the small press world, that's really common. 00:02:48.810 --> 00:02:51.720 align:middle line:84% And if you go up a notch, even to a University press, 00:02:51.720 --> 00:02:56.790 align:middle line:84% certainly to the very few majors who publish poetry, 00:02:56.790 --> 00:02:59.910 align:middle line:84% that the habit there, the custom is that the author 00:02:59.910 --> 00:03:01.800 align:middle line:90% has zero input on the cover. 00:03:01.800 --> 00:03:03.360 align:middle line:84% That's not a decision authors make. 00:03:03.360 --> 00:03:06.840 align:middle line:84% That's a decision the marketing people make, so 00:03:06.840 --> 00:03:10.500 align:middle line:84% on for tons of others a little small decisions. 00:03:10.500 --> 00:03:12.120 align:middle line:84% You might sell a little bit less, 00:03:12.120 --> 00:03:16.320 align:middle line:84% but I personally try to get the message out there 00:03:16.320 --> 00:03:20.030 align:middle line:84% that really, I don't think those numbers are very dramatically 00:03:20.030 --> 00:03:20.530 align:middle line:90% different. 00:03:20.530 --> 00:03:23.580 align:middle line:84% I think that there are some very good University presses. 00:03:23.580 --> 00:03:26.910 align:middle line:84% They do have that status thing so 00:03:26.910 --> 00:03:28.830 align:middle line:84% that if you imagine the library out there, 00:03:28.830 --> 00:03:30.720 align:middle line:84% they're like, oh, well, the University of Blah Blah Press. 00:03:30.720 --> 00:03:32.280 align:middle line:84% So we've got to get that because they're 00:03:32.280 --> 00:03:33.280 align:middle line:90% University or something. 00:03:33.280 --> 00:03:37.530 align:middle line:84% And Free Will Press, just whatever-- they're small press. 00:03:37.530 --> 00:03:40.440 align:middle line:84% But for the actual buyers, the people are really 00:03:40.440 --> 00:03:42.810 align:middle line:84% reading things, I think those numbers, when 00:03:42.810 --> 00:03:44.310 align:middle line:84% you boil them down and look at them, 00:03:44.310 --> 00:03:46.710 align:middle line:84% are closer than people would think. 00:03:46.710 --> 00:03:50.220 align:middle line:84% It's kind of small potatoes for everybody, especially 00:03:50.220 --> 00:03:52.133 align:middle line:90% the majors actually. 00:03:52.133 --> 00:03:53.550 align:middle line:84% I've talked to a number of people, 00:03:53.550 --> 00:03:56.130 align:middle line:84% and I'm just curious when I run into these sort of big agents 00:03:56.130 --> 00:03:58.920 align:middle line:84% and it doesn't happen too often, but every once in a while, 00:03:58.920 --> 00:03:59.850 align:middle line:90% I get one in a room. 00:03:59.850 --> 00:04:01.570 align:middle line:84% And I'm like, what's up with poetry. 00:04:01.570 --> 00:04:04.830 align:middle line:84% And the answer is usually that it 00:04:04.830 --> 00:04:09.840 align:middle line:84% is something the large presses plan to lose money on. 00:04:09.840 --> 00:04:14.550 align:middle line:84% And they do it for in order to attract high-high level fiction 00:04:14.550 --> 00:04:16.890 align:middle line:84% people who like the idea of being 00:04:16.890 --> 00:04:18.600 align:middle line:90% with a more literary press. 00:04:18.600 --> 00:04:21.100 align:middle line:84% And that's the only reason large publishers-- 00:04:21.100 --> 00:04:21.600 align:middle line:90% Cool! 00:04:21.600 --> 00:04:23.430 align:middle line:90% --publish poetry. 00:04:23.430 --> 00:04:25.080 align:middle line:84% With some exceptions, but they're 00:04:25.080 --> 00:04:28.020 align:middle line:84% very few, just the handful, where they actually 00:04:28.020 --> 00:04:29.520 align:middle line:90% go into the thinking. 00:04:29.520 --> 00:04:32.490 align:middle line:84% So it's a cheap way to lose a little bit of money 00:04:32.490 --> 00:04:34.650 align:middle line:84% because you don't have to print very many anyway. 00:04:34.650 --> 00:04:36.960 align:middle line:90% You print about 3,000. 00:04:36.960 --> 00:04:39.720 align:middle line:84% For them, that's grounds down to zero. 00:04:39.720 --> 00:04:42.660 align:middle line:84% And they have the aura of being a literary press 00:04:42.660 --> 00:04:45.510 align:middle line:84% that maybe Michael Cunningham will stay with them 00:04:45.510 --> 00:04:47.130 align:middle line:90% or something like that. 00:04:47.130 --> 00:04:50.010 align:middle line:84% And if you want even more depressing news-- 00:04:50.010 --> 00:04:53.220 align:middle line:84% I don't-- but I will say that to me, that's not depressing. 00:04:53.220 --> 00:04:54.280 align:middle line:90% To me, it's empowering. 00:04:54.280 --> 00:04:56.070 align:middle line:84% And there's a flip side of it, which 00:04:56.070 --> 00:05:00.040 align:middle line:84% is like, if that's what you think you're in poetry for, 00:05:00.040 --> 00:05:01.420 align:middle line:90% get out. 00:05:01.420 --> 00:05:03.700 align:middle line:84% But you have to come back and ask the question, 00:05:03.700 --> 00:05:06.580 align:middle line:84% why am I in poetry then, why do I care about this art 00:05:06.580 --> 00:05:09.790 align:middle line:84% form, what am I trying to get out 00:05:09.790 --> 00:05:13.240 align:middle line:84% of it, what's my relationship to it, what is the there that I'm 00:05:13.240 --> 00:05:14.080 align:middle line:90% shooting for. 00:05:14.080 --> 00:05:16.410 align:middle line:84% And it puts in a different context quickly 00:05:16.410 --> 00:05:18.760 align:middle line:84% the question of where to get published and how and who 00:05:18.760 --> 00:05:22.650 align:middle line:84% to say no to and what demands to make.