WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:00.328 align:middle line:90% 00:00:00.328 --> 00:00:02.370 align:middle line:84% I know that you all have said the thing we really 00:00:02.370 --> 00:00:05.890 align:middle line:84% want is to receive questions from the audience. 00:00:05.890 --> 00:00:08.640 align:middle line:84% And again, that feels like that same engagement. 00:00:08.640 --> 00:00:11.160 align:middle line:84% We're going to keep this piece going. 00:00:11.160 --> 00:00:13.530 align:middle line:90% We're all a part of it. 00:00:13.530 --> 00:00:18.090 align:middle line:84% And so with that, thank you, and questions. 00:00:18.090 --> 00:00:21.710 align:middle line:90% 00:00:21.710 --> 00:00:24.170 align:middle line:84% I actually want to say, too, before we take questions 00:00:24.170 --> 00:00:25.700 align:middle line:90% that one of the-- thank you, TC. 00:00:25.700 --> 00:00:27.680 align:middle line:90% It was awesome. 00:00:27.680 --> 00:00:29.060 align:middle line:90% One of the things that-- 00:00:29.060 --> 00:00:31.370 align:middle line:84% this is a part of the performance, 00:00:31.370 --> 00:00:34.850 align:middle line:84% and we might use your questions or comments 00:00:34.850 --> 00:00:36.060 align:middle line:90% in the next performance, so-- 00:00:36.060 --> 00:00:36.560 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:00:36.560 --> 00:00:37.604 align:middle line:90% Yeah, [INAUDIBLE]. 00:00:37.604 --> 00:00:38.410 align:middle line:90% Beware. 00:00:38.410 --> 00:00:41.040 align:middle line:90% You've been warned. 00:00:41.040 --> 00:00:41.960 align:middle line:90% No, no, no. 00:00:41.960 --> 00:00:42.830 align:middle line:90% We won't use yours. 00:00:42.830 --> 00:00:45.295 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:00:45.295 --> 00:00:48.260 align:middle line:90% 00:00:48.260 --> 00:00:48.950 align:middle line:90% I can't see. 00:00:48.950 --> 00:00:51.050 align:middle line:90% [INAUDIBLE] 00:00:51.050 --> 00:00:52.520 align:middle line:90% Yeah, no. 00:00:52.520 --> 00:00:54.980 align:middle line:90% Are you twins? 00:00:54.980 --> 00:00:55.925 align:middle line:90% It's-- 00:00:55.925 --> 00:00:56.675 align:middle line:90% Are you all twins? 00:00:56.675 --> 00:00:58.538 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:00:58.538 --> 00:01:02.010 align:middle line:90% 00:01:02.010 --> 00:01:04.982 align:middle line:90% You can answer this. 00:01:04.982 --> 00:01:05.482 align:middle line:90% Yes. 00:01:05.482 --> 00:01:06.640 align:middle line:90% The Twilight Zone? 00:01:06.640 --> 00:01:08.840 align:middle line:90% No, we are. 00:01:08.840 --> 00:01:09.720 align:middle line:90% Triplets. 00:01:09.720 --> 00:01:11.390 align:middle line:90% Yes. 00:01:11.390 --> 00:01:14.696 align:middle line:90% Is this The Twilight Zone? 00:01:14.696 --> 00:01:18.442 align:middle line:90% Or The Outer Limits? 00:01:18.442 --> 00:01:21.808 align:middle line:90% Rawhide? 00:01:21.808 --> 00:01:22.850 align:middle line:90% What is The Outer Limits? 00:01:22.850 --> 00:01:24.693 align:middle line:90% Yeah, I don't know that show. 00:01:24.693 --> 00:01:25.610 align:middle line:90% Is that another thing? 00:01:25.610 --> 00:01:26.457 align:middle line:90% The Twilight Zone. 00:01:26.457 --> 00:01:28.040 align:middle line:84% It was kind of like The Twilight Zone. 00:01:28.040 --> 00:01:29.540 align:middle line:84% It's kind of like The Twilight Zone? 00:01:29.540 --> 00:01:32.450 align:middle line:90% The Little Rascals? 00:01:32.450 --> 00:01:34.050 align:middle line:90% Spanky? 00:01:34.050 --> 00:01:34.550 align:middle line:90% Who? 00:01:34.550 --> 00:01:35.342 align:middle line:90% [INAUDIBLE] Spank-- 00:01:35.342 --> 00:01:36.090 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:01:36.090 --> 00:01:36.770 align:middle line:90% [INAUDIBLE] 00:01:36.770 --> 00:01:37.460 align:middle line:90% Oh, Yeah. 00:01:37.460 --> 00:01:37.960 align:middle line:90% Oh. 00:01:37.960 --> 00:01:38.520 align:middle line:90% All of you. 00:01:38.520 --> 00:01:39.020 align:middle line:90% Oh. 00:01:39.020 --> 00:01:39.590 align:middle line:90% Oh. 00:01:39.590 --> 00:01:40.370 align:middle line:90% Wu-tang? 00:01:40.370 --> 00:01:41.960 align:middle line:90% Or Darla. 00:01:41.960 --> 00:01:43.110 align:middle line:90% You're definitely Darla. 00:01:43.110 --> 00:01:45.290 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:01:45.290 --> 00:01:48.290 align:middle line:90% Yes. 00:01:48.290 --> 00:01:50.790 align:middle line:90% Spanky. 00:01:50.790 --> 00:01:53.690 align:middle line:90% Darla, Spanky. 00:01:53.690 --> 00:01:55.350 align:middle line:84% And I don't remember who they are. 00:01:55.350 --> 00:01:57.130 align:middle line:90% Oh, you get to choose. 00:01:57.130 --> 00:02:01.910 align:middle line:84% That's because Bill Cosby took it off the air 00:02:01.910 --> 00:02:04.460 align:middle line:84% because he didn't like the images. 00:02:04.460 --> 00:02:07.580 align:middle line:84% I don't agree with him, because he didn't do a class critique, 00:02:07.580 --> 00:02:13.130 align:middle line:84% because The Little Rascals critiqued class all the time. 00:02:13.130 --> 00:02:15.290 align:middle line:84% You know, Wally-- he went around. 00:02:15.290 --> 00:02:17.780 align:middle line:84% He jumped out of the chauffeur's car, 00:02:17.780 --> 00:02:19.670 align:middle line:84% went to hang out with The Mule, and he said, 00:02:19.670 --> 00:02:21.350 align:middle line:84% I want to go away to the real kids play. 00:02:21.350 --> 00:02:24.260 align:middle line:90% 00:02:24.260 --> 00:02:25.250 align:middle line:90% Anyway. 00:02:25.250 --> 00:02:26.210 align:middle line:90% Thank you, [INAUDIBLE]. 00:02:26.210 --> 00:02:28.280 align:middle line:84% How did you find each other and your form? 00:02:28.280 --> 00:02:32.540 align:middle line:90% 00:02:32.540 --> 00:02:33.778 align:middle line:90% Cave Canem. 00:02:33.778 --> 00:02:34.278 align:middle line:90% Seriously? 00:02:34.278 --> 00:02:35.610 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:02:35.610 --> 00:02:36.570 align:middle line:90% Is where we met. 00:02:36.570 --> 00:02:41.190 align:middle line:84% Well, I think we all met individually-- well, pairs-- 00:02:41.190 --> 00:02:44.550 align:middle line:84% before Cave Canem, but that's where we came together. 00:02:44.550 --> 00:02:45.660 align:middle line:90% I don't know. 00:02:45.660 --> 00:02:47.160 align:middle line:90% How did we find our form? 00:02:47.160 --> 00:02:48.674 align:middle line:90% What's Cave Canem? 00:02:48.674 --> 00:02:49.500 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:02:49.500 --> 00:02:50.250 align:middle line:90% What's Cave Canem? 00:02:50.250 --> 00:02:52.768 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:02:52.768 --> 00:02:53.310 align:middle line:90% That's right. 00:02:53.310 --> 00:02:54.870 align:middle line:84% If you have a question in the middle of an answer, 00:02:54.870 --> 00:02:55.680 align:middle line:90% just scream it out. 00:02:55.680 --> 00:02:57.600 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:02:57.600 --> 00:02:59.040 align:middle line:90% 00:02:59.040 --> 00:03:03.360 align:middle line:84% We went down-- it's a retreat founded 00:03:03.360 --> 00:03:05.820 align:middle line:84% by-- a retreat for African-American poets founded 00:03:05.820 --> 00:03:11.670 align:middle line:84% by Cornelius Eady and Toi Derricotte in 1996. 00:03:11.670 --> 00:03:17.320 align:middle line:84% We started our stuff in 1999 there, together. 00:03:17.320 --> 00:03:19.680 align:middle line:84% I mean, it's a long story and a short story. 00:03:19.680 --> 00:03:22.920 align:middle line:84% I'll try to spell the shorter version of the story, OK? 00:03:22.920 --> 00:03:26.370 align:middle line:84% So Duriel and I actually knew each other from New York. 00:03:26.370 --> 00:03:30.210 align:middle line:84% We were in a strange workshop together 00:03:30.210 --> 00:03:34.470 align:middle line:84% in someone's apartment for a while that we started. 00:03:34.470 --> 00:03:35.970 align:middle line:84% I won't say what the name of it was. 00:03:35.970 --> 00:03:39.300 align:middle line:84% And then Ronaldo and I met a year later, or a couple 00:03:39.300 --> 00:03:41.220 align:middle line:84% of years later, at Cave Canem, and then Duriel 00:03:41.220 --> 00:03:43.323 align:middle line:84% came to Cave Canem the next year. 00:03:43.323 --> 00:03:45.240 align:middle line:84% And actually, what happened is that we kind of 00:03:45.240 --> 00:03:50.850 align:middle line:84% felt like we're coming to Cave Canem because it's a place-- 00:03:50.850 --> 00:03:54.570 align:middle line:84% a safe space for African-American poets. 00:03:54.570 --> 00:03:57.810 align:middle line:84% There's a certain kind of similarity in the-- 00:03:57.810 --> 00:04:00.870 align:middle line:90% 00:04:00.870 --> 00:04:01.620 align:middle line:90% how do I say this? 00:04:01.620 --> 00:04:03.720 align:middle line:84% There was a certain kind of similarity 00:04:03.720 --> 00:04:10.680 align:middle line:84% in the approach to telling stories of Black identity. 00:04:10.680 --> 00:04:15.797 align:middle line:84% And we kind of fell outside of that similarity, 00:04:15.797 --> 00:04:17.130 align:middle line:90% and that's how we came together. 00:04:17.130 --> 00:04:20.670 align:middle line:84% And we just started talking and hanging out and talking 00:04:20.670 --> 00:04:23.280 align:middle line:84% about different tropes of Blackness 00:04:23.280 --> 00:04:26.940 align:middle line:84% and using that in poetry, how useful that is or not, 00:04:26.940 --> 00:04:28.990 align:middle line:84% and what happens when you don't do that. 00:04:28.990 --> 00:04:30.510 align:middle line:90% That was a long time ago. 00:04:30.510 --> 00:04:33.180 align:middle line:84% We can barely remember, which-- it was like 15 years ago. 00:04:33.180 --> 00:04:35.490 align:middle line:90% And how old are we? 00:04:35.490 --> 00:04:36.000 align:middle line:90% I'm 25. 00:04:36.000 --> 00:04:36.800 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:04:36.800 --> 00:04:38.800 align:middle line:90% It was a long time ago. 00:04:38.800 --> 00:04:39.300 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:04:39.300 --> 00:04:40.135 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:04:40.135 --> 00:04:42.170 align:middle line:84% And does that answer your question enough? 00:04:42.170 --> 00:04:44.340 align:middle line:84% The question of form is interesting, too, though. 00:04:44.340 --> 00:04:47.550 align:middle line:90% How did we find our form? 00:04:47.550 --> 00:04:48.940 align:middle line:90% I mean, it's still evolving. 00:04:48.940 --> 00:04:50.140 align:middle line:90% I think that's one question. 00:04:50.140 --> 00:04:51.780 align:middle line:84% I think that's why we work together 00:04:51.780 --> 00:04:54.120 align:middle line:84% to try to work out the form, and the relationship 00:04:54.120 --> 00:04:56.700 align:middle line:84% to that question is never ending for us. 00:04:56.700 --> 00:05:03.120 align:middle line:84% You know how do we mine identity or self representation, self 00:05:03.120 --> 00:05:07.520 align:middle line:84% fashioning, race, class, all those things. 00:05:07.520 --> 00:05:09.150 align:middle line:84% And I also would add that there are 00:05:09.150 --> 00:05:11.550 align:middle line:90% other kinds of intersections. 00:05:11.550 --> 00:05:16.050 align:middle line:84% You know, I hadn't known Dawn, but I knew of Duriel, 00:05:16.050 --> 00:05:18.150 align:middle line:84% because Duriel was a year ahead of me at NYU, 00:05:18.150 --> 00:05:21.000 align:middle line:84% and I'd seen her name at that time at NYU. 00:05:21.000 --> 00:05:24.060 align:middle line:84% It was a sort of revolving door, where maybe it's 00:05:24.060 --> 00:05:24.850 align:middle line:90% still the case. 00:05:24.850 --> 00:05:27.420 align:middle line:84% But, you know, Duriel was the only Black [INAUDIBLE].. 00:05:27.420 --> 00:05:30.870 align:middle line:84% Then [? John ?] [? Keane ?] and then [INAUDIBLE] and then me, 00:05:30.870 --> 00:05:31.540 align:middle line:90% or whatever. 00:05:31.540 --> 00:05:33.840 align:middle line:84% So there's always that one person that's looking at-- 00:05:33.840 --> 00:05:35.640 align:middle line:84% what is the arc something or other? 00:05:35.640 --> 00:05:36.150 align:middle line:90% Archangel. 00:05:36.150 --> 00:05:36.650 align:middle line:90% Archangel. 00:05:36.650 --> 00:05:38.230 align:middle line:90% I said, who's Duriel Harris? 00:05:38.230 --> 00:05:39.930 align:middle line:84% And then I-- and suddenly, we met. 00:05:39.930 --> 00:05:43.680 align:middle line:84% And then-- so there's that kind of-- 00:05:43.680 --> 00:05:46.920 align:middle line:84% so in one way, I was trying to work out 00:05:46.920 --> 00:05:50.280 align:middle line:84% what my form was as a poet in this program. 00:05:50.280 --> 00:05:53.445 align:middle line:84% And before I knew Duriel, I think I had a-- 00:05:53.445 --> 00:05:54.030 align:middle line:90% I don't know. 00:05:54.030 --> 00:05:55.238 align:middle line:90% Maybe I was a little jealous. 00:05:55.238 --> 00:05:56.400 align:middle line:90% I was like, who is Duriel? 00:05:56.400 --> 00:05:58.633 align:middle line:90% She got more money than I did. 00:05:58.633 --> 00:05:59.550 align:middle line:90% I didn't get anything. 00:05:59.550 --> 00:06:00.570 align:middle line:90% She got funding. 00:06:00.570 --> 00:06:01.620 align:middle line:84% That was, like, one of the things. 00:06:01.620 --> 00:06:03.662 align:middle line:84% I was like, why wasn't I a New York Times fellow? 00:06:03.662 --> 00:06:05.574 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:06:05.574 --> 00:06:07.410 align:middle line:84% I should be a New York Times fellow. 00:06:07.410 --> 00:06:08.850 align:middle line:84% Why don't I win this fellowships? 00:06:08.850 --> 00:06:11.040 align:middle line:90% I'm always like, yeah, right. 00:06:11.040 --> 00:06:13.630 align:middle line:84% I mean, I was getting that kind of thing, you know? 00:06:13.630 --> 00:06:17.580 align:middle line:84% But it is nice to be able to have 00:06:17.580 --> 00:06:20.310 align:middle line:84% a pool next to your gigantic room 00:06:20.310 --> 00:06:23.970 align:middle line:84% and to have basalmic caviar at the Ritz [INAUDIBLE].. 00:06:23.970 --> 00:06:25.890 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:06:25.890 --> 00:06:27.733 align:middle line:84% So I'd gladly give that everything up, 00:06:27.733 --> 00:06:29.900 align:middle line:84% just because at the end, anyways, it doesn't matter, 00:06:29.900 --> 00:06:31.580 align:middle line:90% you know what I mean? 00:06:31.580 --> 00:06:36.480 align:middle line:84% So it all-- so we met in that [INAUDIBLE].. 00:06:36.480 --> 00:06:37.170 align:middle line:90% Pellets. 00:06:37.170 --> 00:06:39.690 align:middle line:84% Yeah, they were balsamic vinaigrette pellets 00:06:39.690 --> 00:06:42.357 align:middle line:84% that were supposed to look like caviar. 00:06:42.357 --> 00:06:43.440 align:middle line:90% They did look like caviar. 00:06:43.440 --> 00:06:45.420 align:middle line:84% Yeah, that was the whole-- they didn't call them pellets, 00:06:45.420 --> 00:06:46.462 align:middle line:90% they called them caviar-- 00:06:46.462 --> 00:06:49.260 align:middle line:90% balsamic vinaigrette caviar. 00:06:49.260 --> 00:06:50.140 align:middle line:90% That's how we met. 00:06:50.140 --> 00:06:51.780 align:middle line:90% That's how we found our form. 00:06:51.780 --> 00:06:53.640 align:middle line:90% We were gorging on caviar. 00:06:53.640 --> 00:06:55.200 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:06:55.200 --> 00:06:56.340 align:middle line:90% Who's eating that caviar? 00:06:56.340 --> 00:06:57.690 align:middle line:90% Who brought the roe? 00:06:57.690 --> 00:07:00.654 align:middle line:84% And Dawn said, "I brought the roe." 00:07:00.654 --> 00:07:02.968 align:middle line:84% We did stream out of the building, thought, didn't we? 00:07:02.968 --> 00:07:05.010 align:middle line:84% Stream out of the building and say, what the fuck 00:07:05.010 --> 00:07:06.050 align:middle line:90% are they talking about? 00:07:06.050 --> 00:07:07.050 align:middle line:90% Do you have a cigarette? 00:07:07.050 --> 00:07:08.503 align:middle line:90% What's your name? 00:07:08.503 --> 00:07:09.420 align:middle line:90% Let's get out of here. 00:07:09.420 --> 00:07:11.090 align:middle line:90% What the fuck are they doing? 00:07:11.090 --> 00:07:12.270 align:middle line:90% That must have been you two. 00:07:12.270 --> 00:07:13.800 align:middle line:90% We were-- this was nice. 00:07:13.800 --> 00:07:16.830 align:middle line:84% Actually, you often revise the story. 00:07:16.830 --> 00:07:17.460 align:middle line:90% Let's see. 00:07:17.460 --> 00:07:19.892 align:middle line:84% You tell stories of us running out of circles, 00:07:19.892 --> 00:07:20.850 align:middle line:90% screaming hysterically. 00:07:20.850 --> 00:07:21.210 align:middle line:90% We did. 00:07:21.210 --> 00:07:21.750 align:middle line:90% Did we? 00:07:21.750 --> 00:07:22.870 align:middle line:90% Yes. 00:07:22.870 --> 00:07:23.370 align:middle line:90% We did. 00:07:23.370 --> 00:07:25.210 align:middle line:84% We were-- both of us were running. 00:07:25.210 --> 00:07:28.328 align:middle line:90% [INAUDIBLE] 00:07:28.328 --> 00:07:30.240 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:07:30.240 --> 00:07:31.544 align:middle line:90% And I was just [INAUDIBLE]. 00:07:31.544 --> 00:07:34.328 align:middle line:90% 00:07:34.328 --> 00:07:35.256 align:middle line:90% One question. 00:07:35.256 --> 00:07:37.540 align:middle line:90% I do have a question. 00:07:37.540 --> 00:07:39.072 align:middle line:90% Do you need a mic? 00:07:39.072 --> 00:07:43.410 align:middle line:90% 00:07:43.410 --> 00:07:44.610 align:middle line:90% And-- gracias. 00:07:44.610 --> 00:07:47.100 align:middle line:90% I did love the whole piece. 00:07:47.100 --> 00:07:49.200 align:middle line:90% But one thing that-- 00:07:49.200 --> 00:07:52.530 align:middle line:84% I mean, if I started to speak about all the things 00:07:52.530 --> 00:07:55.200 align:middle line:84% that I loved, we would be here an hour. 00:07:55.200 --> 00:07:59.850 align:middle line:84% So I'll shortened it to the one that struck me most. 00:07:59.850 --> 00:08:04.470 align:middle line:84% It's beyond the use of poetry, the language, the space, 00:08:04.470 --> 00:08:06.930 align:middle line:90% and basically the whole thing. 00:08:06.930 --> 00:08:11.610 align:middle line:84% The relationship between who you are not 00:08:11.610 --> 00:08:15.180 align:middle line:90% and the mask being who you are. 00:08:15.180 --> 00:08:18.345 align:middle line:84% And you could like to speak about those masks? 00:08:18.345 --> 00:08:23.330 align:middle line:90% 00:08:23.330 --> 00:08:27.090 align:middle line:90% I don't know the relationship. 00:08:27.090 --> 00:08:29.190 align:middle line:84% The relationship between the mask and the self-- 00:08:29.190 --> 00:08:32.820 align:middle line:84% is that who one thinks one is and the kind 00:08:32.820 --> 00:08:38.460 align:middle line:84% of projection of the self on the mask or something like that? 00:08:38.460 --> 00:08:44.220 align:middle line:84% Well, when you speak to people that are ancient people who 00:08:44.220 --> 00:08:48.930 align:middle line:84% live in oral cultures, they say that the mask is not 00:08:48.930 --> 00:08:53.940 align:middle line:90% to be seen, but to be seen from. 00:08:53.940 --> 00:08:58.800 align:middle line:84% So when you started wearing the masks, both in the forms, 00:08:58.800 --> 00:09:03.480 align:middle line:84% and you wear them in many forms in complete negative, 00:09:03.480 --> 00:09:06.720 align:middle line:84% in distorted color, you use it in yourselves. 00:09:06.720 --> 00:09:10.960 align:middle line:84% So the relationship between who you are, who you are not, 00:09:10.960 --> 00:09:14.820 align:middle line:84% who the mask is, who is looking at what-- 00:09:14.820 --> 00:09:20.040 align:middle line:84% I want to hear anything that you have to say about that mask. 00:09:20.040 --> 00:09:23.430 align:middle line:84% I mean, the way that I think about the use of a mask-- 00:09:23.430 --> 00:09:27.870 align:middle line:84% and I think this might differ for each of us in some ways-- 00:09:27.870 --> 00:09:32.970 align:middle line:84% like, the mask that we choose at some moment 00:09:32.970 --> 00:09:34.440 align:middle line:90% in the performance-- 00:09:34.440 --> 00:09:37.710 align:middle line:90% I really love the ape mask. 00:09:37.710 --> 00:09:40.050 align:middle line:84% I used to, actually, when I was in graduate school, 00:09:40.050 --> 00:09:46.140 align:middle line:84% sometimes put on an ape mask and wear it into the corner deli. 00:09:46.140 --> 00:09:48.030 align:middle line:84% But I like-- one of the reasons I 00:09:48.030 --> 00:09:51.030 align:middle line:84% think it challenges people is because 00:09:51.030 --> 00:09:55.150 align:middle line:84% of the projection of the simian on the African-American body, 00:09:55.150 --> 00:09:55.650 align:middle line:90% right? 00:09:55.650 --> 00:09:59.610 align:middle line:84% So what happens when one presents that in this space? 00:09:59.610 --> 00:10:01.020 align:middle line:90% What is it that one experiences? 00:10:01.020 --> 00:10:04.230 align:middle line:84% I'm curious-- I always want to know what the audience is 00:10:04.230 --> 00:10:07.380 align:middle line:90% experiencing in that moment. 00:10:07.380 --> 00:10:09.750 align:middle line:84% For me, it's multilayered in that way. 00:10:09.750 --> 00:10:13.780 align:middle line:84% There's the projection of it by another, 00:10:13.780 --> 00:10:17.160 align:middle line:84% and then there's the putting it on and wearing it 00:10:17.160 --> 00:10:21.510 align:middle line:84% as a projection, but also as a kind of possibility, 00:10:21.510 --> 00:10:23.730 align:middle line:84% also as some kind of playfulness, 00:10:23.730 --> 00:10:25.470 align:middle line:90% some kind of humor. 00:10:25.470 --> 00:10:27.270 align:middle line:84% There's a lot of humor embedded, I think, 00:10:27.270 --> 00:10:29.062 align:middle line:84% in the wearing of the mask, as much as it's 00:10:29.062 --> 00:10:30.540 align:middle line:90% a kind of distortion for me. 00:10:30.540 --> 00:10:33.090 align:middle line:90% 00:10:33.090 --> 00:10:42.100 align:middle line:84% I think what's coming to mind for me right now is 00:10:42.100 --> 00:10:47.820 align:middle line:84% an experience of dissociation that I have often have, 00:10:47.820 --> 00:10:53.820 align:middle line:84% and it's related not only to a kind of personal relationship 00:10:53.820 --> 00:10:57.600 align:middle line:84% with trauma, but also the trauma of racialization. 00:10:57.600 --> 00:11:01.650 align:middle line:84% And Ginger and just kind of being in a body 00:11:01.650 --> 00:11:04.380 align:middle line:84% and being seen and kind of negotiating that, even 00:11:04.380 --> 00:11:06.390 align:middle line:84% with seeing myself sitting in the mirror. 00:11:06.390 --> 00:11:09.060 align:middle line:84% So something that happened to me this time 00:11:09.060 --> 00:11:14.370 align:middle line:84% that I was particularly aware of when putting on the mask, 00:11:14.370 --> 00:11:16.740 align:middle line:84% it brought-- it was kind of like the experience I 00:11:16.740 --> 00:11:19.500 align:middle line:84% have when I look in a mirror, where I just kind of catch 00:11:19.500 --> 00:11:23.970 align:middle line:84% myself or the face that it is that people 00:11:23.970 --> 00:11:27.510 align:middle line:84% see when they say that they are seeing me, 00:11:27.510 --> 00:11:29.370 align:middle line:84% or they believe that they're seeing me. 00:11:29.370 --> 00:11:32.920 align:middle line:84% And I had that kind of experience, 00:11:32.920 --> 00:11:35.100 align:middle line:84% especially the first time that I put 00:11:35.100 --> 00:11:39.090 align:middle line:84% on the mask, where it was like, I'm 00:11:39.090 --> 00:11:42.690 align:middle line:90% putting on a mask over a mask-- 00:11:42.690 --> 00:11:47.280 align:middle line:84% a mask over the body, which is the rind, and thinking 00:11:47.280 --> 00:11:49.950 align:middle line:84% about the relationship between the rind 00:11:49.950 --> 00:11:55.950 align:middle line:84% that I can't throw off no matter how hard I try, 00:11:55.950 --> 00:12:02.070 align:middle line:84% rind, it sometimes rides me, That others, and then even 00:12:02.070 --> 00:12:08.490 align:middle line:84% myself, spend time reading and interpreting instead 00:12:08.490 --> 00:12:11.350 align:middle line:90% of sometimes just being in. 00:12:11.350 --> 00:12:15.270 align:middle line:84% And so that's kind of where I went with it. 00:12:15.270 --> 00:12:17.260 align:middle line:90% Yeah, it's really important. 00:12:17.260 --> 00:12:21.570 align:middle line:84% I think the masks are, just in terms of composition, 00:12:21.570 --> 00:12:25.620 align:middle line:84% the compositional and material dimensions of the work-- 00:12:25.620 --> 00:12:29.490 align:middle line:84% you know, I'm really interested in the ways in which plastic 00:12:29.490 --> 00:12:37.800 align:middle line:84% feels, sweat and condensation changes the color, mood. 00:12:37.800 --> 00:12:42.420 align:middle line:84% Some of the things that we directed-- on the beach, 00:12:42.420 --> 00:12:45.240 align:middle line:84% for instance, I don't know if you remember some of the stuff 00:12:45.240 --> 00:12:46.500 align:middle line:90% where the mask-- 00:12:46.500 --> 00:12:48.720 align:middle line:84% one form looks another way if the light 00:12:48.720 --> 00:12:52.000 align:middle line:84% turns a particular way so the camera does something. 00:12:52.000 --> 00:12:54.300 align:middle line:84% So I think it's also, for me, this larger question 00:12:54.300 --> 00:12:57.750 align:middle line:84% of composition, compositional space, and duration, 00:12:57.750 --> 00:12:59.880 align:middle line:84% in the sense of thinking of a way 00:12:59.880 --> 00:13:02.820 align:middle line:84% to move a performance from one element 00:13:02.820 --> 00:13:08.070 align:middle line:84% to another with just the materiality of it. 00:13:08.070 --> 00:13:12.600 align:middle line:84% And it's just-- and also those masks sort of fall 00:13:12.600 --> 00:13:14.640 align:middle line:90% into our hand-- 00:13:14.640 --> 00:13:17.190 align:middle line:84% I mean, I used to go shopping and suddenly these masks 00:13:17.190 --> 00:13:20.067 align:middle line:84% are on sale somewhere, and they're outrageously insane. 00:13:20.067 --> 00:13:21.900 align:middle line:84% Or I pull them from wherever, but, you know, 00:13:21.900 --> 00:13:22.858 align:middle line:90% they're great to carry. 00:13:22.858 --> 00:13:24.330 align:middle line:90% And sometimes we'll sit-- 00:13:24.330 --> 00:13:26.380 align:middle line:84% one time when we were filming a video, 00:13:26.380 --> 00:13:29.730 align:middle line:84% we sat at a hotel bar and shot footage, 00:13:29.730 --> 00:13:32.050 align:middle line:90% and the level of terror. 00:13:32.050 --> 00:13:33.630 align:middle line:90% I mean, are you going to rob us? 00:13:33.630 --> 00:13:34.890 align:middle line:90% Are you going to rob us? 00:13:34.890 --> 00:13:35.880 align:middle line:90% We're working. 00:13:35.880 --> 00:13:36.510 align:middle line:90% We're working. 00:13:36.510 --> 00:13:38.460 align:middle line:90% We're shooting a video. 00:13:38.460 --> 00:13:40.710 align:middle line:84% You know, so that experience of what 00:13:40.710 --> 00:13:44.040 align:middle line:84% it's like to have a martini at a bar-- lift up the mask 00:13:44.040 --> 00:13:45.630 align:middle line:90% and then shoot it. 00:13:45.630 --> 00:13:49.530 align:middle line:84% I love all that stuff-- that dimension, the composition. 00:13:49.530 --> 00:13:50.730 align:middle line:90% One more question, I think. 00:13:50.730 --> 00:13:51.400 align:middle line:90% Or comment. 00:13:51.400 --> 00:13:54.493 align:middle line:90% 00:13:54.493 --> 00:13:56.410 align:middle line:84% First of all, I want to say thanks for the LL. 00:13:56.410 --> 00:13:59.620 align:middle line:84% It's always good to [INAUDIBLE] dirty. 00:13:59.620 --> 00:14:00.160 align:middle line:90% What? 00:14:00.160 --> 00:14:02.210 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:14:02.210 --> 00:14:03.970 align:middle line:90% And I just want to-- 00:14:03.970 --> 00:14:07.840 align:middle line:84% I was struck by how curiously intimate the performance is. 00:14:07.840 --> 00:14:11.350 align:middle line:84% I feel like I'm entering into a space almost like a voyeur, 00:14:11.350 --> 00:14:12.110 align:middle line:90% to some extent. 00:14:12.110 --> 00:14:15.880 align:middle line:84% And I was wondering how you think about your work 00:14:15.880 --> 00:14:17.980 align:middle line:84% as a collective-- the intimacy of it? 00:14:17.980 --> 00:14:20.650 align:middle line:84% And how you think about the audience and your relationship 00:14:20.650 --> 00:14:22.300 align:middle line:90% with us and vise versa? 00:14:22.300 --> 00:14:25.240 align:middle line:90% 00:14:25.240 --> 00:14:28.820 align:middle line:84% We were actually talking about this today with TC. 00:14:28.820 --> 00:14:34.940 align:middle line:84% And we were talking about what it takes to produce the work. 00:14:34.940 --> 00:14:37.460 align:middle line:84% And in some ways, it takes hours and hours 00:14:37.460 --> 00:14:40.820 align:middle line:84% of just kind of hanging out together and playing. 00:14:40.820 --> 00:14:43.760 align:middle line:84% There's a lot of playful process in the work. 00:14:43.760 --> 00:14:47.420 align:middle line:84% I mean, we spent the past three days basically figuring out 00:14:47.420 --> 00:14:49.940 align:middle line:84% what we wanted to do, how we wanted 00:14:49.940 --> 00:14:53.300 align:middle line:84% to bring this particular site into the work-- we try to make 00:14:53.300 --> 00:14:56.450 align:middle line:90% every work site-specific. 00:14:56.450 --> 00:15:01.472 align:middle line:84% So thank you to Claudia and Cecilia and Christine for-- 00:15:01.472 --> 00:15:02.930 align:middle line:84% you didn't let us borrow your work. 00:15:02.930 --> 00:15:04.394 align:middle line:90% We just saw the video. 00:15:04.394 --> 00:15:05.860 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:15:05.860 --> 00:15:07.842 align:middle line:90% [INAUDIBLE] stuff. 00:15:07.842 --> 00:15:08.342 align:middle line:90% What? 00:15:08.342 --> 00:15:09.650 align:middle line:90% They were great. 00:15:09.650 --> 00:15:12.200 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:15:12.200 --> 00:15:14.320 align:middle line:90% So I mean it's really-- 00:15:14.320 --> 00:15:16.070 align:middle line:84% and we've been working together for years. 00:15:16.070 --> 00:15:18.112 align:middle line:84% And so people often say that about the intimacy-- 00:15:18.112 --> 00:15:19.950 align:middle line:84% we can't necessarily see it, but we feel it. 00:15:19.950 --> 00:15:23.120 align:middle line:84% We feel each other's bodies on the stage. 00:15:23.120 --> 00:15:24.770 align:middle line:84% But I think that intimacy is actually 00:15:24.770 --> 00:15:30.440 align:middle line:84% produced, in part, from the work that we do on-site 00:15:30.440 --> 00:15:33.540 align:middle line:90% when we do a performance. 00:15:33.540 --> 00:15:35.690 align:middle line:84% What was the second part of your question? 00:15:35.690 --> 00:15:38.706 align:middle line:84% [INAUDIBLE] your relationship with [INAUDIBLE].. 00:15:38.706 --> 00:15:40.070 align:middle line:90% Relationship with the audience? 00:15:40.070 --> 00:15:45.900 align:middle line:84% Yeah, I mean, again, I think it's sort of structurally 00:15:45.900 --> 00:15:47.700 align:middle line:90% specific to the room, right? 00:15:47.700 --> 00:15:48.960 align:middle line:90% I mean just knowing-- 00:15:48.960 --> 00:15:51.130 align:middle line:84% and it's good to know that this is the kind of room, 00:15:51.130 --> 00:15:53.820 align:middle line:84% and to imagine what vantage point is here. 00:15:53.820 --> 00:15:55.800 align:middle line:84% And I think in some ways, it's always-- 00:15:55.800 --> 00:15:57.360 align:middle line:84% maybe not just the people looking, 00:15:57.360 --> 00:16:02.180 align:middle line:84% but the kinds of questions that we interpose. 00:16:02.180 --> 00:16:04.680 align:middle line:84% I mean, I don't know that the breaks and the sequences where 00:16:04.680 --> 00:16:08.460 align:middle line:84% we mix some of the conversation in with the natural-- well, 00:16:08.460 --> 00:16:11.280 align:middle line:84% they're natural anyway-- but the other animals that were making 00:16:11.280 --> 00:16:12.180 align:middle line:90% noises. 00:16:12.180 --> 00:16:14.550 align:middle line:84% So the interruptions were ways in which 00:16:14.550 --> 00:16:17.980 align:middle line:84% we were trying to post very specific questions. 00:16:17.980 --> 00:16:20.970 align:middle line:84% So I mean, there's also this question of intimacy 00:16:20.970 --> 00:16:23.010 align:middle line:84% by way of rigor, of trying to figure out, 00:16:23.010 --> 00:16:24.300 align:middle line:90% what do we want to work out? 00:16:24.300 --> 00:16:27.930 align:middle line:84% What questions can we think of that are projections? 00:16:27.930 --> 00:16:30.480 align:middle line:84% But also-- I don't know, maybe that's why 00:16:30.480 --> 00:16:32.490 align:middle line:84% I feel, in a way, the strongest about-- 00:16:32.490 --> 00:16:36.600 align:middle line:84% that there is a certain kind of felt intellection or something 00:16:36.600 --> 00:16:38.730 align:middle line:90% that's also happening. 00:16:38.730 --> 00:16:41.640 align:middle line:84% Because this technology is really very difficult 00:16:41.640 --> 00:16:43.800 align:middle line:84% to hold on to, so you want a body or some kind 00:16:43.800 --> 00:16:46.440 align:middle line:90% of feeling around it. 00:16:46.440 --> 00:16:51.120 align:middle line:84% because otherwise, it can mean a whole other thing. 00:16:51.120 --> 00:16:54.254 align:middle line:84% Yeah, for me, I guess I'm just thinking about-- 00:16:54.254 --> 00:16:57.060 align:middle line:84% to go along with that, as far as intimacy 00:16:57.060 --> 00:17:02.210 align:middle line:84% is concerned, that the possibility I've encountered, 00:17:02.210 --> 00:17:03.930 align:middle line:84% and the opportunity that we have-- 00:17:03.930 --> 00:17:08.380 align:middle line:90% 00:17:08.380 --> 00:17:09.040 align:middle line:90% Oh my god. 00:17:09.040 --> 00:17:11.800 align:middle line:90% 00:17:11.800 --> 00:17:12.300 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:17:12.300 --> 00:17:16.329 align:middle line:90% 00:17:16.329 --> 00:17:24.160 align:middle line:84% No, I mean, the idea of us being together in this space 00:17:24.160 --> 00:17:29.050 align:middle line:84% and really thinking about how to make the most of that time 00:17:29.050 --> 00:17:30.220 align:middle line:90% that we had together. 00:17:30.220 --> 00:17:33.430 align:middle line:84% So both of us being able to be here 00:17:33.430 --> 00:17:37.300 align:middle line:84% and you guys being willing to have your bodies here and be 00:17:37.300 --> 00:17:42.700 align:middle line:84% present, and the possibility that a full kind of presence 00:17:42.700 --> 00:17:47.290 align:middle line:84% and mockery brings, and the playfulness of that-- 00:17:47.290 --> 00:17:50.680 align:middle line:84% the playfulness being generative-- 00:17:50.680 --> 00:17:51.970 align:middle line:90% and all of this possibility. 00:17:51.970 --> 00:17:57.130 align:middle line:84% I mean, that's afforded, I think, by us 00:17:57.130 --> 00:18:00.460 align:middle line:84% and you allowing for that intimacy. 00:18:00.460 --> 00:18:03.940 align:middle line:84% Like if you close yourself off, then 00:18:03.940 --> 00:18:05.740 align:middle line:84% that's the end of the possibility. 00:18:05.740 --> 00:18:11.980 align:middle line:84% So it's part of the rigor, the questions, and the time 00:18:11.980 --> 00:18:15.280 align:middle line:84% that we need to spend with one another and the amenities 00:18:15.280 --> 00:18:22.810 align:middle line:84% that we need as well, in order to think and breathe and eat. 00:18:22.810 --> 00:18:25.722 align:middle line:84% What if-- will you break up, like the Supremes, and one 00:18:25.722 --> 00:18:26.680 align:middle line:90% of you become the lead? 00:18:26.680 --> 00:18:29.190 align:middle line:90% No, I don't think so. 00:18:29.190 --> 00:18:29.970 align:middle line:90% We might. 00:18:29.970 --> 00:18:30.946 align:middle line:90% I don't know. 00:18:30.946 --> 00:18:32.898 align:middle line:90% [LAUGHTER] 00:18:32.898 --> 00:18:34.892 align:middle line:90% [INAUDIBLE] Diana Ross songs. 00:18:34.892 --> 00:18:36.850 align:middle line:84% No, but technically, you guys are a supergroup, 00:18:36.850 --> 00:18:38.860 align:middle line:84% because you already had individual careers. 00:18:38.860 --> 00:18:42.040 align:middle line:84% You're just forming a case-- kind of like Dub-C, Mack-10, 00:18:42.040 --> 00:18:42.790 align:middle line:90% and Ice Cube. 00:18:42.790 --> 00:18:46.270 align:middle line:90% 00:18:46.270 --> 00:18:47.780 align:middle line:90% That's what I said. 00:18:47.780 --> 00:18:49.150 align:middle line:90% That's what I'm saying. 00:18:49.150 --> 00:18:50.170 align:middle line:90% Exactly. 00:18:50.170 --> 00:18:50.850 align:middle line:90% Right. 00:18:50.850 --> 00:18:52.965 align:middle line:84% Thank you for your questions and comments. 00:18:52.965 --> 00:18:56.690 align:middle line:90% [APPLAUSE] 00:18:56.690 --> 00:18:59.000 align:middle line:90%