[APPLAUSE]
Thank you.
[LAUGHTER]
Bravo.
It was very--
I don't know if there are any questions,
or if people want to make comments
that don't have to be related to the performance, too.
Yes?
I was absolutely fascinated by the use
of the various languages.
But there are about 5,000 languages.
Why do you limit yourself to those few?
[LAUGHTER]
Maybe it's your ability, but Italian is so beautiful,
Hungarian so beautiful.
[INAUDIBLE]
[LAUGHTER]
Sorry, we can't-- we can't speak more languages.
Are there any other questions, or comments,
or reflections about things you read before?
Doesn't have to be what we just did.
There also don't have to be any questions.
[LAUGHTER]
Yes?
Curious if there was anybody in the audience that
could understand all of the languages
and appreciate all of the puns in all of the languages?
Did anybody understand all of them?
Somebody who understood everything.
No, it's quite a challenge.
Are there any further questions?
If not, maybe?
Das heißt, fünf Sprachen sind genug, dass nicht alles verstanden wird.
[LAUGHTER]
OK, there's your answer.
That five languages suffice to not be understood in.
[LAUGHTER]
Any further comment?
I would like-- oh, there are some more comments.
Hands are going up, so--
I have one.
[INAUDIBLE]
Yeah.
And I'm really curious about translation and interaction
of languages.
I know that there seemed to be, especially
in the part about Afrikaans, in South Africa,
there seem to be this--
maybe it's just because I understood the English and not
others-- but it seemed to be, there seemed
to be this sort of almost mystical view at times
of language, and of what languages you can know,
that it sort of defies logic.
And I was wondering if you all could
comment upon that influence, and thinking and talking
about language.
That makes sense.
[INAUDIBLE]
Dass er... Südafrika?
Er meinte, das hätte eigentlich etwas Mystisches.
Ob du dazu etwas sagen kannst. Acha.
Also einerseits war das ja nicht richtig, oder für mich...
Dass im Traum die Sprache sehr verschoben vorkommt.
Also Traumsprache immer verschoben ist.
Und Holländisch klang für meine Ohren wie verschobenes Deutsch
Und Afrikaans wie verschobenes Holländisch.
Und das passte sehr gut, dass
Also als Metapher, also Afrikaans als Metapher für Traumsprache.
Und andererseits habe ich mich damit auseinandergesetzt,
dass es gar nicht mystisch, sondern politisch...
[LAUGHTER]
Dass es in Südafrika elf offizielle Sprachen gibt,
Und in den Nachrichten wird auch alles elfmal gesagt.
OK, so Afrikaans is an interesting example for Tawada
to use, because to say that Africa is a dream--
the language of dreams--
which is what is being said in one of her text collections--
means, amongst other things, that German is--
That the language of dreams is a language of displacement
and movements, and that Dutch is a little bit displaced
from German, and that Afrikaans is a little bit
displaced from Dutch.
And that this is a good metaphor for what she's trying to say.
At the same time, in South Africa,
there are 11 languages being spoken.
And on the news you hear these 11 languages are used
to transmit the information.
Yes, please?
I had a question.
Maybe I don't know exactly how to formulate it.
But when you're reciting your poetry,
do you have more problems switching
between, say, German and Japanese than between two
other languages?
I noticed in some of what you were reciting,
you were going between German and Japanese.
Is that very difficult?
Or is that something that you had to practice a lot?
Ja, das ich schwierig, natürlich.
Ich glaube, zwischen zwei Sprachen gibt es immer eine Kluft,
wo keine Sprache mehr möglich ist, wo man das Gefühl hat,
man kann gar nichts mit der Sprache sagen,
aber immer wieder zu diesem Nullpunkt zurückzukommen,
das bedeutet für mich Dichtung, also das ist was Grundsätzliches für mich.
She says, of course, it's very difficult.
But that between languages, there is a gap,
and that, when you speak foreign languages,
you risk falling into the gap.
At the same time, that is the place where poetry is made.
[INAUDIBLE]. Nein.
[LAUGHTER]
So, you know, fascinating place to return to, again and again
in the work.
Yes?
Ich weiß nicht, soll ich Deutsch reden, oder...
But then some people do not understand.
So maybe you can translate.
What you have been doing, in many respects,
reminds me a lot of late medieval mystical literature.
Because they try to come to terms with the divine
language-- the apophatic, the ineffable--
for which there are no words.
And poetry is, in a way, the expression of the divine.
But I never--
I don't know whether you write religious poetry.
Hast du das verstanden? Nein.
Soll ich es nochmal auf Deutsch sagen? Ja, bitte.
Was mich sehr an Ihrer Dichtung, an Ihrem Text interessiert hat, ist,
dass es sehr stark mich an die spätmittelalterliche mystische Literatur erinnert,
die sich mit der Erfahrung des göttlichen auseinanderzusetzen versucht,
und immer wieder an die Schranke der Sprache selber kommt, nämlich mit dem Apophatischen,
dem Unaussprechlichen, also mit dem Mystischen.
Und ich frage mich deswegen, ob Sie auch manchmal religiöse Texte
oder Texte geschrieben haben, die sich mit dem religiösen an sich auseinandersetzen?
Nein, nicht direkt, ich bin auch überhaupt nicht religiös,
aber wahrscheinlich weil ich nicht, weil ich die...
an die Logik der Sprache
oder an die eindimensionale Logik des Denkens gar nicht glaube.
Und wenn man das nicht tut,
dann ist es vielleicht für einige Leute mystisch,
aber ob das das richtige Wort ist, weiß ich nicht.
Auf jeden Fall, vielleicht wenn man, ja die...
Aufklärung infrage stellt zum Beispiel,
dann ist es dann gleichzeitig modern und dann mittelalterlich.
She says that she's not religious,
and that she doesn't write religious poetry.
But at the same time, she strongly
questions logic in her poetry as well.
And at the moment you start to question logic,
and the moment you reconsider enlightenment, then
some people--
then this can be called mystical or seen as mystical,
though that's not the word she would use to describe it.
But perhaps, illogical?
Anyway, the unlogical, or I don't
know what word to use for it.
But she also said, then, the medieval and the modern
come together.
OK.
[INAUDIBLE]
Right, right.
Any more, no medieval questions.
[LAUGHTER]
Your [? joy of ?] poetry is highly original and refreshing.
While you play with the Japanese language, did you--
have you tried to play with the kanji--
the Chinese characters? Because that's
very rich part of Japanese language.
The thing is probably much to do.
Or I don't know, if you have [INAUDIBLE] or something
in common with it?
Yes, I have a text.
Ja, aber ich habe doch eins. Kannst du das kurz [INAUDIBLE]?
Ja...
Ja, das ist ein...
Es gibt da Wörter...
Wie kann man das erklären, es ist schwieriger als Vorlesen, oder?
Oder vielleicht, was du bei [INAUDIBLE]?
Es gibt...
Na ja, nein, ich kann das [INAUDIBLE]
It's easier to read than to explain.
She's trying to find a way to explain.
[INAUDIBLE]
[LAUGHTER]
Yes, please.
Yeah, I wanted to know-- do you speak those five languages that
have been translated, or do you speak
more than those five languages?
I speak only Japanese and German.
[INAUDIBLE]
Yeah, but Bettina-- she speaks--
[LAUGHTER]
yes
Oh, this is it's more about culture then-- you know,
you say you speak Japanese and German.
In my experience with-- in dealing with business,
Germans are like Americans.
And I just give an example, like culture--
if you say-- if you're negotiating something,
if they agree they will say yes, if they don't, they
will say no.
And that's what Americans will do.
But in Japan, the Japanese they're-- they will say--
if they agree they, will say yes.
If they don't agree, it'll vary, but usually it's something
like, we will give that serious consideration,
but it really means no.
They just don't say no.
What I'm saying, it's like, in their culture,
if you [INAUDIBLE] business, they don't clearly come out.
And I think that is--
I don't know if it's captured in the language.
So, do you notice anything like that?
Can you rephrase that again?
[LAUGHTER]
Can you say what your question is?
There are these differences where--
Yeah, culture reflected in the language, OK.
And you're translating back and forth.
And since you know German, and you know Japanese, when you--
and you were talking about dreaming--
do you dream in what language?
Or, I'm thinking, do you think based on a culture, also?
And so, in German, and also in English,
you know, American at least, if you say yes or no, you're
going to say yes or no.
At least in my experience in business is, that in--
with the Japanese.
If they say yes, they mean yes.
If they say anything else, it really means no,
but they never really actually say.
Usually they don't say no.
They do say, we'll give it serious consideration.
But do you know that Japanese businessmen [? mean ?]
Yes, no, yeah.
So?
[INTERPOSING VOICES]
It's very clear that they may [? meant ?] in business, I say.
I mean, yeah.
So it's a different use--
different kind of using words, but I
think it's not so prevalent in the literature.
You don't say, yes, and you don't say no.
In German, Japanese and in German.
And it's-- nothing is clear.
And so, and, yeah, but what is your question?
[LAUGHTER]
So business language is clearer than literature,
and even though you get two yeses,
you know which one is no.
[LAUGHTER]
There's a question, yeah?
Yeah, I was reading Wörter, die in der Asche schlafen müssen, is what
it is, the name of the writing?
And you speak of the difficulties of [INAUDIBLE],,
of swearing in your language.
And I was just curious what parts
of speaking another language do you find most difficult,
and the easiest?
And what comes naturally to you, what
do you have the most problems with?
Nein, ich schimpfe nicht, auch wenn da deutsche Schimpfwörter sind.
Und das sehe ich nicht als Problem.
Es gibt in, also in diesem Text habe ich ja geschrieben zum Beispiel,
Im Japanischen benutzt man Gemüsenamen als Schimpfwort.
Wenn ein Schauspieler schlecht ist, ist das ein Rettich-Schauspieler.
Und in Deutschland eher Tiernamen, das ist eine Ziege, das ist eine Kuh und so.
Und man benutzt komischerweise diese Dinge, die man am meisten isst, als Schimpfwort,
obwohl man die liebt, Schwein, Kuh und so.
So in Japanese, there is a tendency
to use vegetables when you're cursing.
Whereas in German, there's a tendency
to refer to animals when you're cursing.
However both the vegetables and the animals
are those that you eat or cherish a lot.
They are common.
Further questions?
[INAUDIBLE]
Wondering why you chose German as your media to work with,
in addition to Japanese?
What's appealing to you about the German language
as a literary medium?
[INAUDIBLE] Warum du ausgerechnet Deutsch [INAUDIBLE]
und was dir besonders an Deutsch gefällt.
Deutsch kommt mir vor wie eine magische Sprache,
womit man auch sehr abstrakte Sachen sehr gut ausdrücken kann.
Es sind viele Wörter für mich, zum Beispiel das Wasser, das klingt wie das Wasser
oder als würde aus dem Wort selbst das Wasser fließen.
Oder der Baum ist der Baum selbst, im Klang dieser Sprache ist das Ding drin
und das gefällt mir an der deutschen Sprache.
So she says that German, besides being
a very practical language-- because she that's
where she lives, and the language in which she normally
operates-- it's also a magical language, because words quite
often sound what they are.
So the German word for water, Wasser,
sounds like water to her.
Or the German word for tree, Baum,
sounds like the thing itself.
Which-- there's a one-on-one relationship in poetry.
OK, next question.
What about Schmetterling?
[LAUGHTER]
It's those weird wings.
Flap, almost, when you're speaking slowly.
OK, there was one last question in the back I saw.
It's somewhat obvious, so maybe I
should save this for some of the more worthwhile questions.
But it's just surprises me to hear you say that,
that you would say that about a language that's
not your first language.
So would you not say the same about Japanese,
that water sounds like water, and tree sounds like tree?
Japanese water is 水.
das klingt für mich überhaupt nicht nach Wasser, muss ich sagen.
[INAUDIBLE] das gefällt mir überhaupt nicht das Wort.
Das hießt nicht, dass die japanische Sprache mir nicht gefallen würde,
aber es gibt da eine...
Bei der deutschen Sprache gibt es eine seltsame Kombination
zwischen einer Direktheit und einer Abstraktion.
Die Wörter, die ganz direkt für mich mit den Dingen zusammenhängen,
kann man plötzlich auch für einen philosophischen Diskurs benutzen.
Oft so was wie ein Wort wie anwesend oder sein und solche Sachen.
Sie klingen für mich einerseits sehr konkret und das sind dieselben Wörter,
die man für die Philosophie benutzt.
Im Japanischen ist das nicht so.
Es gibt verschiedene Wörter und das ist abgespalten.
Das ist ein Problem mit der japanischen Sprache.
Es gibt natürlich Vorteile bei der japanischen Sprache,
aber ich lobe erstmal die deutsche Sprache.
Bei Japanisch habe ich mir ja nicht ausgesucht, Deutsch ja.
It's when you learn a foreign tongue
that you become more aware of the materiality of the sounds,
of the way the word looks, in your being free.
[INAUDIBLE] my translation, sorry.
[LAUGHTER]
When you speak your mother tongue,
you have a very close relationship to it.
You don't see-- you don't look with different eyes to it.
So therefore, in Japanese, which happens to be her mother
tongue, she doesn't think that 水, which is water,
sounds like water.
Or she doesn't have that same relationship to it.
And she also said that in Japanese,
the vocabulary for certain topics is much more--
the vocabulary is separated.
You have certain words for certain topics
that aren't used in other realms.
Whereas in German, the same words
that can be very concrete, or very abstract,
depending on whether you're talking
about a philosophical discourse or your purchase in a store.
There it is, there is a word.
Yes?
Question, and that's the last one.
Yeah, this discussion triggered another question in my mind.
I want to know if, when you write--
in German or in Japanese--
is there one language in which you feel more at ease?
I come from French-speaking Africa,
and I write some poetry in French.
And I try to write poetry in English.
But when I write in French, there
comes a time where I'm fairly satisfied with what
I've written.
But when I write in English, I never
know if the poem is finished or not.
And I was wondering if you have this kind of experience,
or if you are completely at ease in both languages
that it doesn't matter.
Wie dieser Tisch aussieht und wie er sich anfühlt und so weiter.
Aber andererseits in der japanischen Sprache fällt es mir manchmal schwer
über Dinge nachzudenken, mit Distanz, abstrakter.
She says in German, she finds it difficult to describe
in great detail, for example, the surface of this table.
What's in it, and the colors, and the shapes.
Whereas in Japanese--
[LAUGHTER]
[INAUDIBLE]
Is it part of being abstract?
Being abstract and adding a distance to it.
So--
In Japanese or in German?
In Japanese.
Yeah.
From a distance.
So, yeah.
Gedichte schreibe ich in beiden Sprachen, aber die sind wahrscheinlich unterschiedlich
Ich kann die Unterschiede nicht beschreiben,
aber sie sind schon unterschiedlich irgendwie.
Weil Dinge, die für mich in der deutschen Sprache poetisch sind,
sind nicht unbedingt in der japanischen Sprache poetisch und umgekehrt.
Daher sind das unterschiedliche Gedichte, aber ich schreibe in beiden Sprachen Gedichte.
She said she writes poems in both German and Japanese,
but that they're somehow different.
But that it's a little difficult to explain exactly how,
especially for me.
[LAUGHTER]
So I'm sure you can tell that I would be willing to talk to you
if-- after you all get up from our chairs
and we get away from these microphones,
if there are further individual people who
want to come up and say something, that can happen.
There's also the books at the end of the room people
can purchase stuff.
So, thank you.
[APPLAUSE]